Skyscale quality of life is one thing

[Vayne.8563]

On 8/29/2021 at 9:43 AM, Obfuscate.6430 said:

Drytop was an example, and you've missed the reason why I brought it up.  Essentially Arenanet has trivialized their own content. You could argue that there is a lot of content in the game that we never look back on and no one complains however masteries were supposed to be a form of meaningful progression. Mounts have superseded that and  you could argue  that they are a form of progression for veteran players. However for new players who start at POF and then use their new mounts to skip "meaningful progression" of all the content that came before -  then what?  

Arenanet's ultimate goal is not only to attract players, but keep them. The Pre-Mount masteries were ultimately designed to give us a sense of progression but also occupy our time in a meaningful and rewarding way. What reward does that offer to newer players now?   Particularly to new players who start at POF and then go back to core and HOT?

That is what the developers should be looking at.  
But to be fair, talking about the validity of masteries as a game system is probably for another thread. But with regards to mounts - they really do make much of the older content meaningless. 

What then? What if new people use a bunny to get to a vista instead of solving it?

For 9 years now, I've portaled people to the tops of vistas who don't like to jump. Since launch.  Those people don't like jumping...so what's the big deal. It's not like they won lotto or anything. If it's better for some people let them do it.

[Obfuscate.6430]

13 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

That's kind of a non-issue, though. They get faster access to one mediocre reward chest and an easier time getting a few achievement points. And any time a JP is a daily there's like five mesmers already standing there ready to port you up.

It's an exploitation though.

[Obfuscate.6430]

9 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

What then? What if new people use a bunny to get to a vista instead of solving it?

For 9 years now, I've portaled people to the tops of vistas who don't like to jump. Since launch.  Those people don't like jumping...so what's the big deal. It's not like they won lotto or anything. If it's better for some people let them do it.

Everyone has access to a mesmer portal if mesmers are around on core maps. Not everyone in core maps have access to mounts. I know this sounds like splitting hairs in this particular scenario. But the point of my post was to point out that some new players are feeling like they are being left behind because of this. 
The main thing is the raptor killing mobs though. 

[ASP.8093]

10 minutes ago, Obfuscate.6430 said:

It's an exploitation though.

It's harmless fun! Letting you just put a mount in the JP would make it boring, while letting you yeet yourself into the JP off a Skyscale/Springer poses a trivial but amusing puzzle for the player.

 

None of the JPs that give anything good can be breached this way (or cheesed via parking/port-to-friend).

 

6 minutes ago, Obfuscate.6430 said:

The main thing is the raptor killing mobs though. 

Nerf downscaled-level mount DPS, problem solved entirely.

Edited September 1, 2021 by ASP.8093

[Sesaline.6705]

If the grind to get a Skyscale wasn't so arbitrarily drawn out with constant backtracking/timegates I think this would all be a non-issue. Newer players will keep bringing this issue up for as long as this quest chain remains as it currently is, even after the 24 hours to 2 hours change. It's really terrible because no single part of it is fun. You literally tp back and forth across 30 something areas , revisiting the same places over and over again during different steps (so you can't knock out an area in one go). The map meta in Dragonfall pulls players away from their collection hunts frequently. The material requirements force repetitive gameplay on this map which leads to burnout after all the collection hunting as well. Waiting in-between collections, waiting for a world boss just to be frozen by a veteran add, waiting for metas on several maps--It's awful. It's boring. It's completely uninspired. Why does the timegating need to be there? Why so many collections? Who hurt the developers that made this quest?

 

Every other mount is a piece of cake in comparison to this one, even Griffon. That's why many players are upset. Weeks or even months being at a disadvantage until they eventually cave in and finish this ridiculously bad quest chain. I'm not the gatekeeping type that thinks everyone should suffer because I did at one point. If something is this bad it needs some serious revision. Players aren't lazy because they have criticisms of this quest chain or mount. I'm at the part where I'm taking care of the baby for 3 (forced) days and I'll probably never revisit these maps once I'm done with this bs. So yeah, I understand why players bring up Skyscale advantages so often, but I feel that the frustrations are misplaced. If the quest wasn't this gigantic wall then maybe more people would enjoy the benefits of a Skycale and less people would complain.

 

 

[Razadune.9260]

12 minutes ago, Sesaline.6705 said:

Every other mount is a piece of cake in comparison to this one, even Griffon.

    

In my opinion, the Griffon was harder to get than the Skyscale. The Skyscale is definitely much longer, and you have far more stuff that you need to do, but none of it is difficult at all and anything that requires getting a group together can be skipped with Skyscale treats. There's nothing like the Second Spear Nayrim or Corrupted Facet in the Skyscale chain that can't be easily skipped; the only thing that comes close is the meta in Elon Riverlands to kill Josso Essher, but there's always people around doing it.    

    

18 minutes ago, Sesaline.6705 said:

layers aren't lazy because they have criticisms of this quest chain or mount. I'm at the part where I'm taking care of the baby for 3 (forced) days and I'll probably never revisit these maps once I'm done with this bs.

    

Feed once before reset, feed again after the reset, and you're two thirds of the way done on the same day. Feed again tomorrow after reset. It isn't three days forced, it's just two resets. Although I wouldn't recommend it necessarily because of the tedium of the gathering quests, I did the entire chain in three days. The griffon took me just as long because it took me two days to get a group together to successfully do Facet, and another to finish Nayrim. Depending on how you play, it's almost guaranteed that farming 250 gold for the griffon takes longer than the Skyscale quest, too.

     

 

28 minutes ago, Sesaline.6705 said:

The material requirements force repetitive gameplay on this map which leads to burnout after all the collection hunting as well. Waiting in-between collections, waiting for a world boss just to be frozen by a veteran add, waiting for metas on several maps--It's awful.

    

You can get the materials all in one chunk by doing the Return achievements for LWS4 that started last week. You don't need to grind them at all that way; not that any of that is nearly as bad is it's made out to be anyway, just play the maps for a while and have fun and you'll get it.  You also don't need to wait for a world boss to be frozen, go to Bitterfrost Frontier and you can finish that step in about 30 seconds pretty much any time you want. The metas you need are easy to just do, like Augury Rock that's up every 2 hours, or Shadow Behemoth that's on the same timer. Metabattle has a good guide to getting the Skyscale that makes it all pretty simple and easy, with any tricks that might help you avoid frustration.    

    

The Skyscale questline is unnecessarily long and is incredibly boring, and is full of padding in a way that it just does not have to be. But it's not even remotely difficult, even to get casually, and the longer you're willing to take to get it done the less oppressive it is.  If it's not imperative you finish quickly you can even just wait out most of the resource grind and buy materials each reset in Dragonfall if you really wanted to, making that the only map you'd need to play much for its resource; if you have the volatile magic from doing the story and just playing the maps enough for half the resources, you can do the other half of the resource grind in a little over two weeks playing the maps that way. If it's frustrating or boring just let it take a little longer, play what you want in the meantime and maybe dabble at the resources, and in a couple of weeks you come back to it and it's all but done. If you already have the griffon you can do pretty much anything you could with a Skyscale already anyway.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 8/29/2021 at 4:02 AM, LuRkEr.9462 said:

People too lazy to get skyscale complain about those who have it. Classic.

 

I often get boo'd by new players when I do map completion in Central Tyria these days, because you can get to a lot of vistas easily with the Skyscale (while they have to work their way through jumping puzzles etc). I then tell them that I have done map completion on several characters long before gliding and mounts existed and that I have earned the right to have it easier now. 😉

 

On 8/29/2021 at 1:43 AM, Obfuscate.6430 said:

Drytop was an example, and you've missed the reason why I brought it up.  Essentially Arenanet has trivialized their own content. You could argue that there is a lot of content in the game that we never look back on and no one complains however masteries were supposed to be a form of meaningful progression. Mounts have superseded that and  you could argue  that they are a form of progression for veteran players. However for new players who start at POF and then use their new mounts to skip "meaningful progression" of all the content that came before -  then what?  

Arenanet's ultimate goal is not only to attract players, but keep them. The Pre-Mount masteries were ultimately designed to give us a sense of progression but also occupy our time in a meaningful and rewarding way. What reward does that offer to newer players now?   Particularly to new players who start at POF and then go back to core and HOT?

That is what the developers should be looking at.  
But to be fair, talking about the validity of masteries as a game system is probably for another thread. But with regards to mounts - they really do make much of the older content meaningless. 

 

It's true. It would have been nice did they have the resources to update the old content accordingly, but that's not the case, so...

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Vayne.8563]

3 hours ago, Obfuscate.6430 said:

Everyone has access to a mesmer portal if mesmers are around on core maps. Not everyone in core maps have access to mounts. I know this sounds like splitting hairs in this particular scenario. But the point of my post was to point out that some new players are feeling like they are being left behind because of this. 
The main thing is the raptor killing mobs though. 

I do agree with the raptor mob thing.

[Telgum.6071]

3 hours ago, Obfuscate.6430 said:

Everyone has access to a mesmer portal if mesmers are around on core maps. Not everyone in core maps have access to mounts. I know this sounds like splitting hairs in this particular scenario. But the point of my post was to point out that some new players are feeling like they are being left behind because of this. 
The main thing is the raptor killing mobs though. 

Which players exactly?

[Dopamine.6324]

3 hours ago, tclark.8956 said:

Depending on how you play, it's almost guaranteed that farming 250 gold for the griffon takes longer than the Skyscale quest, too.

doubt you can do skyscale quest in 8h, like auric basin farm is 32g/h.

[Despond.2174]

What a selfish attitude. It's not even that hard to get with all the guides telling you exactly what to do.

 

Stop using "NEW PLAYERS" as a front, it's disingenuous and transparent. If you're new getting a skyscale is the LEAST of your concerns, you're too busy enjoying the plethora if things to do and progress in.

 

Skyscale is an end-game achievement that takes a bit of effort but it still has limitations compared to other mounts.

 

End of the day you just want it easier, stop lying to everyone. Everyone who has one all had to do the same thing, newer, older, in between. Just go do it if you want it, stop trying to ruin accomplishments.

 

If you want one, go get it. Nothing is stopping you. What a silly thing to complain about.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Despond.2174

[Bingus.4236]

I have all mounts except the skyscale. The only time I really notice is when the bunny can't handle going up the terrain because it's full of ledges. I recognise the comment about Verdant Brink but maybe better to memorise where the helicopter pick up points are rather than try to follow the train.

 

Raptor dismount can be annoying but all pushes and pulls during group fights are annoying. Ranger longbow 4, just don't. I remember before I had mounts, it was not fun to do Daily Map Event complete because I often couldn't get to events quick enough from waypoints before mounted trains of players completed them.

 

 

[Crackmonster.2790]

5 hours ago, Obfuscate.6430 said:

Everyone has access to a mesmer portal if mesmers are around on core maps. Not everyone in core maps have access to mounts. I know this sounds like splitting hairs in this particular scenario. But the point of my post was to point out that some new players are feeling like they are being left behind because of this. 
The main thing is the raptor killing mobs though. 

It is just what it is, you cant force everyone to be slowed down to a newbies pace, who didnt work achieve the mounts and advantages that are generally very welcome especially to long term players. You can't get everything.

I'm quite sure this post came from a few times being overrun by some dude on his raptor farming mobs before you could and needing to wait some respawns or something. You can't get everything without putting in the effort, put in the time and you will get it too. As a newbie in nearly all games you have to accept there are advantages that take time to unlock. And tbh in the most cases there are other ways to complete the heart that can't get farmed, its not often i ever have such as issue of running out of things i can complete the quest. Usually my biggest pain is having so many options that if i cant resort to the simplest ones life is ohh so hard for me xD Imagine having to read what to do with objects around the heart..

Meanwhile there are various mobility skills and longed ranged abilities that are good for tagging mobs to help you get as many heart credits as possible before others farm it.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Crackmonster.2790

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 8/30/2021 at 1:16 AM, The Boz.2038 said:

I understand where the OP is coming from.

One of the best examples is Verdant Brink. If you have Skyscale, you can actually participate in the meta, hit all the bosses, get full camp security, end up with 200% participation, and obtain all the rewards. No Skyscale? You'll get two bosses, maybe three. You have ~no say in if the map security tier goes up or not. You'll feel like crap seeing fifty flying players descend upon the boss while you're doing the climby-glidy-bit to even get there, only to not even get a tag in.

Dragonstand? Pretty much the same thing, in the final fight. You'll ~never (never) get the bomber achievement without Skyscale, the amount of time that you need to get to the mortar, then glide over to Mordy, and then drop it, the head phase is long dead by then. 

 

There is no "climby-glidy" bit to reach the bosses in the VB night meta.  You just take the chopper from any controlled camp in the area of the map for that particular boss.  No mounts required, although some of the boss platforms require bounce mushrooms or updrafts.

 

Getting 200% participation does not require killing the bosses and killing the bosses is not even close to enough to achieve the maximum security level, but none of this has anything to do with mounts.

 

[The Boz.2038]

1 minute ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

from any controlled camp

Bra-ding!

Also, talking about kinda-newish players, who don't know the map and the helo sites by heart, and can't even learn it, because all of the "experienced" people are just flying around all the time. 
Hope you see how this ability then separates those that don't know *and* don't have, and those that know and have, and denies the first group the opportunity to learn from the second.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 minute ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Bra-ding!

Also, talking about kinda-newish players, who don't know the map and the helo sites by heart, and can't even learn it, because all of the "experienced" people are just flying around all the time. 
Hope you see how this ability then separates those that don't know *and* don't have, and those that know and have, and denies the first group the opportunity to learn from the second.

 

The camps are all marked on the map and roughly follow the same geographical separation as the day cycle events, grouped around each waypoint.  I don't think it's expecting too much for new players to look at the map and utilize the available information.  If they don't understand what they're looking at, they can use the wiki or ask questions.  This has nothing to do with having a mount. 

[Obtena.7952]

On 8/28/2021 at 3:20 PM, Narathkor.8541 said:

but when you can cheese every aspect of the game and screw everyone else around you, yeah you need to fix it so they can't get over places.

Using a Skyscale doesn't NOT screw everyone else around you. Stop complaining about nothing and go get one. 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

On 8/28/2021 at 7:11 PM, Rogue.8235 said:

The point about mount attacks still stands.  These things actually go against ArenaNet's philosophy that you should always be happy to see another player.  Mount attacks turn dynamic events and hearts into competitive . activities.  Players end up competing against each other to get the damage in for event/heart credit.

 

ArenaNet seriously needs to realize how much this contradicts their game design of cooperative pve.  

Seriously, this is an interaction that obviously goes against their design philosophies, is complained about intermittently on the forums (via new threads), causes players to dislike other players for simply playing the content, and creates a competitively unsociable environment.

This issue occurs most during the daily task, "Do 4  events in <zone>."  Reducing or eliminating mount attacks would limit or remove one of their features, which is not a problem in most situations (e.g., when solo, or at events in high level zones with fewer players).

 

A better solution would be to change the daily task back to, "Do X events in <region>." Region is Ascalon, Orr, Shiverpeaks, etc.  That was the events task before it was changed to stack lots of max-level characters on low-level maps.  Changing the task would also dramatically reduce the ludicrous gameplay wherein many players stand at mob spawn points spamming attacks while waiting for mobs to spawn, hoping to gain credit.  That is also "players competing with other players," so if the goal is to reduce or eliminate that competition, let's kill two birds with one stone.

[Rogue.8235]

3 hours ago, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

This issue occurs most during the daily task, "Do 4  events in <zone>."  Reducing or eliminating mount attacks would limit or remove one of their features, which is not a problem in most situations (e.g., when solo, or at events in high level zones with fewer players).

A better solution would be to change the daily task back to, "Do X events in <region>." Region is Ascalon, Orr, Shiverpeaks, etc.  That was the events task before it was changed to stack lots of max-level characters on low-level maps.  Changing the task would also dramatically reduce the ludicrous gameplay wherein many players stand at mob spawn points spamming attacks while waiting for mobs to spawn, hoping to gain credit.  That is also "players competing with other players," so if the goal is to reduce or eliminate that competition, let's kill two birds with one stone.

I can get behind this.  I forgot that they used to be regional and not map specific.

[Sesaline.6705]

23 hours ago, tclark.8956 said:

    

In my opinion, the Griffon was harder to get than the Skyscale.

While I respect your opinion, I don't think many people would share this opinion. The Skyscale quest is much longer with much, much more waypointing and waiting around for just about everything the Griffon chain included. I could finish the Griffon quest in one day without burnout but this is not possible with Skyscale. Facet is not hard if you sit in the spawn location instead of waiting at the board. People still do this and Nayrim.

 

Map materials are easy for the time being due to the revisit quests that obviously will not be there forever. Also the map with the alternative for being frozen is part of another living world (3 I think) that requires owning it to begin with, which I do not. So I had to wait for the world boss twice just to be frozen because the first time none of them would target me over the Ranger/Necro pets. All elementals die as well when the phase switches so there really isn't much time to get this one specific thing done.

 

edit: whether you wait just before reset or not, it's still 3 days. Not everyone can time this so perfectly and cheesing the last minutes of the day doesn't erase the fact that they must be done on three separate in-game days based on reset times.

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Sesaline.6705

[Linken.6345]

7 minutes ago, Sesaline.6705 said:

While I respect your opinion, I don't think many people would share this opinion. The Skyscale quest is much longer with much, much more waypointing and waiting around for just about everything the Griffon chain included. I could finish the Griffon quest in one day without burnout but this is not possible with Skyscale. Facet is not hard if you sit in the spawn location instead of waiting at the board. People still do this and Nayrim.

 

Map materials are easy for the time being due to the revisit quests that obviously will not be there forever. Also the map with the alternative for being frozen is part of another living world (3 I think) that requires owning it to begin with, which I do not. So I had to wait for the world boss twice just to be frozen because the first time none of them would target me over the Ranger/Necro pets. All elementals die as well when the phase switches so there really isn't much time to get this one specific thing done.

 

edit: whether you wait just before reset or not, it's still 3 days. Not everyone can time this so perfectly and cheesing the last minutes of the day doesn't erase the fact that they must be done on three separate in-game days based on reset times.

 

How do you not own it?

We just had a revisit of whole season 3 just awhile ago.

[Dante.1763]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

How do you not own it?

We just had a revisit of whole season 3 just awhile ago.

Could be like me perhaps, and didnt do all the maps. They may have also missed  snagging the map to begin with.

I missed Palawadan last week, hoping i can get it tommorow >.<

Granted i am doing this whole return to thing different, and plan on finishing it all in one go. So im doing the map achievements as they come up but leaving the story achievements.

Note: i have skyscale. Getting curriences isnt the hardest part of that i found.

[Sesaline.6705]

3 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

How do you not own it?

We just had a revisit of whole season 3 just awhile ago.

 

I don't understand why this is a point of contention. This is giving me 'don't you guys own phones?' vibes from Blizzcon 2018. Whether I own it or not (and I don't), the content of this particular step is so specific and odd. It doesn't even add a positive element to the boss fight itself to have several people off to the side desperately trying to get a veteran add to target them with a specific ability instead of contributing to the overall goal.

 

1 hour ago, Dante.1763 said:

Could be like me perhaps, and didnt do all the maps. They may have also missed  snagging the map to begin with.

I missed Palawadan last week, hoping i can get it tommorow >.<

Granted i am doing this whole return to thing different, and plan on finishing it all in one go. So im doing the map achievements as they come up but leaving the story achievements.

Note: i have skyscale. Getting curriences isnt the hardest part of that i found.

 

Getting the currencies isn't a difficult task. None of the things in this quest chain are particularly difficult really. It's when you throw them all together that the whole ordeal becomes a problem for many players that may not have the time to be online for specific metas, world bosses, or rare events that shorten the grind (ex: "return to: x" to skip material grinds). 

 

Good luck with your achievements speedrun o/

 

---

As an aside, just to sum up my stance on this: The Skyscale quest could be condensed. Easing access would lessen many of the complaints about this mount. As for mount damage and abilities: these are not a Skyscale-specific problem so I won't speak on that. 

 

[Bingus.4236]

22 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

There is no "climby-glidy" bit to reach the bosses in the VB night meta.  You just take the chopper from any controlled camp in the area of the map for that particular boss.  No mounts required, although some of the boss platforms require bounce mushrooms or updrafts.

 

Getting 200% participation does not require killing the bosses and killing the bosses is not even close to enough to achieve the maximum security level, but none of this has anything to do with mounts.

 

 

Whenever I have done VB night media there has a been a commander leading a train of people round doing all bosses and for some of the bosses you can go between platforms with the skyscale. The skyscale players then go where others can't follow. If you try with a glider, you end up far down and you can't get up before the boss is finished.  Unless you know the map well, you likely won't know what boss exactly the group is going for, where the corresponding camp is and by the time you figure that out then it is done. Players want do do all the bosses for xp or baubles.

[Gibson.4036]

7 hours ago, Sesaline.6705 said:

 

 

Map materials are easy for the time being due to the revisit quests that obviously will not be there forever. 

 

Nevermind! I figured it out. Tier three participation awards 250 currency! Wish I’d known that last week for chapter 1 of season 4. Another nevermind, I just discovered the achievements are here to stay.

 

———————-
 

Can someone explain this? Are there return tasks that grant the map currencies? I haven’t been doing the return events, thinking they were just about achievements and the new precursor. My son and I have been working on his skyscale and are at skyscale medicine. But it sounds like we should drop that and focus on the return events to get the currencies while we can?

Edited September 2, 2021 by Gibson.4036
Did some research