Catalyst: Likes and Dislikes

[Eddy.7051]

Likes

• The name Catalyst sounds cool. I am still waiting to see how the meaning of the name ties into the gameplay and lore of this elite spec.
• I've always wanted levitating foci weapons, and it seems like we will have this with the jade tech sphere rather than with actual weapons. The sphere reminds me of caster classes in eastern MMOs, like the Sorcerer in Tera.
• I'm happy to see an elemental dragon animation. Core Elementalist in GW1 and GW2 has always had a few dragon-themed spells (Rodgort spells, Dragon's Tooth, Dragon's Stomp, etc.). It's perfect timing for the End of "Dragons" elite spec, returning to the empire of the "dragon", to have a new dragon-themed spell.
• I like that the teaser mentioned ancient magics - like a Shaman. The visuals in the teaser showed the Canthan celestials (Phoenix, Kirin, and Dragon) to convey ancient magic. I'm curious to see if the other skills and traits will give more ancient magic flavor.

Dislikes

• From the D&D perspective, Elementalist would be a high intelligence and low strength profession while hammer would be a weapon that requires the most strength out of all the weapons. The hammer seems like the antithesis to the Elementalist (unless it is a light weight hammer, like the conjured hammer - which also feels like a redundancy with the new hammer weapon). Based on the teaser, I still do not see how the spells feel "hammer-y". It seems like the same spells could have easily been reattributed to any other melee weapon.
• The teaser advertises the Catalyst as being a melee-oriented elite spec. Was this archetype not already covered by the Weaver as a spellblade?

Edited September 16, 2021 by Eddy.7051
Noted Celestials in skill animations

[HowlKamui.5120]

I just wanna nitpick a bit with your D&D reference. 

From a D&D Perspective, The elementalist is more of a sorcerer than a wizard so it should be high charisma and not intelligence (he is literally commanding elements), and also elite specs CAN be fundamentally different from the base spec. Think of it as a sorcerer multiclassing with a war domain cleric. But anyway, it's your opinion and I respect it. 

I think the subclass' theme is fine. A bruiser who uses Canthan technology along with the elements. What's wrong with it though, is that it's another melee spec. If one of the Tempest or the Weaver was a ranged-focused specialization for the Ele, I would be very happy with the Catalyst. But that isn't the case. We're stuck with another melee spec.

However, since details of the class is unknown to us at the moment, im still holding out hope that the class mechanic would synergize well with the staff.

Edited September 16, 2021 by HowlKamui.5120

[draxynnic.3719]

To nitpick your nitpick, in the editions I know apart from 4th, wizard and sorcerer draw from the same spell lists. Elementalist could be a wizard specialising in elemental magic (which generally means evocation and/or conjuration) or a sorcerer mostly focusing on those sorts of spells. The distinction is basically whether the magical ability comes from extensive academic learning or from practicing an inborn talent.

 

Both are usually squishy types that aren't generally known for swinging massive hammers, though, so I think the OP's point holds either way.

 

The main problem is really that it comes after two other close-in focused elites. There is a suggestion in a press article that the hammer might not be obligatory melee, though. If there's at least one ranged attunement, that'll stop it from being a repeat of Weaver.

Poor marketing if so, though, since the teaser does make it seem like an obligatory melee weapon.

Edited September 16, 2021 by draxynnic.3719

[Xenesis.6389]

From a Gw2 perspective, the elementalist used air element to make their hammer lighter to carry.

[Xanadrine.4352]

I dont like the whole melee yet again design. Catalyst could just as well have been a mobile ranged spec, which ele needs!

[Seresibyl.2874]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

To nitpick your nitpick, in the editions I know apart from 4th, wizard and sorcerer draw from the same spell lists. Elementalist could be a wizard specialising in elemental magic (which generally means evocation and/or conjuration) or a sorcerer mostly focusing on those sorts of spells. The distinction is basically whether the magical ability comes from extensive academic learning or from practicing an inborn talent.

 

Both are usually squishy types that aren't generally known for swinging massive hammers, though, so I think the OP's point holds either way.

 

The main problem is really that it comes after two other close-in focused elites. There is a suggestion in a press article that the hammer might not be obligatory melee, though. If there's at least one ranged attunement, that'll stop it from being a repeat of Weaver.

Poor marketing if so, though, since the teaser does make it seem like an obligatory melee weapon.

 

Elementalist is most definitely a Sorcerer  just by their non-chalant-ease of spell use. 

[Ultramex.1506]

Yea..i have to disagree on DnD, GW2 is not DnD and if Mesmer can shoot laser beam with greatsword, Ele should have no problem utilize hammer to fit their need

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ultramex.1506

[Knuckle Joe.7408]

I like the the wells, I just hope they don't do some basic shiz like: "Fire well: increase you and your allies power by 200 while standing inside."

I dislike the melee focus. Ele hasn't had a viable ranged spec ever since staff got nerfed, back in HoT, that's like, more than 5 years. It was the perfect time to give ele another ranged option, a longbow would have been amazing like everyone says. Could very well have made hammer ranged like revenant's (which is kind of an irony, the heavy armored class has the ranged hammer, while the squishy caster has the melee one LOL).

We'll see how it plays, we might be surprised. I just really wish Anet would listen to their players more, but they keep doing the opposite of what people want. Not sure if they even read these forums and all the amazing feedback players give.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Knuckle Joe.7408

[Dapinchi.7920]

As long as Catalyst (or any other spec on ele) gets quickness or alacrity I'll by content.

[Sunshine.5014]

57 minutes ago, Bamisama.6853 said:

As long as Catalyst (or any other spec on ele) gets quickness or alacrity I'll by content.

From the video, I think I saw quickness on Air.

[Stallic.2397]

It's a melee spec and I'm disappointed. All I can do now is hope that they finally buff the kitten out of conjures in EOD so I can finally play with fgs and ice bow. 

 

One shot bad guys just cause they looked at my conjure

Edited September 17, 2021 by Stallic.2397
Tons of mispelling

[Doggie.3184]

What's the point of carrying balls and a big hammer if you don't smack them towards things?

Could at least let them smack their wells around as needed XD

Edited September 17, 2021 by Doggie.3184

[draxynnic.3719]

8 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

What's the point of carrying balls and a big hammer if you don't smack them towards things?

Could at least let them smack their wells around as need XD

Be funny if they can smack it around like the orb in Keep Construct, except that only the owner of the orb can do so.

[BlackBeard.2873]

1 hour ago, Knuckle Joe.7408 said:

I like the the wells, I just hope they don't do some basic shiz like: "Fire well: increase you and your allies power by 200 while standing inside."

The thing is, having something like that that was a unique buff would actually help ele compete for support roles in raids (like spotter and spirits help rangers). Instead it will be even worse and do something like "pulses out might standing inside"...because we need more ability to give might.

 

Quote

I dislike the melee focus. Ele hasn't had a viable ranged spec ever since staff got nerfed, back in HoT, that's like, more than 5 years. It was the perfect time to give ele another ranged option, a longbow would have been amazing like everyone says. Could very well have made hammer ranged like revenant's (which is kind of an irony, the heavy armored class has the ranged hammer, while the squishy caster has the melee one LOL).

We'll see how it plays, we might be surprised. I just really wish Anet would listen to their players more, but they keep doing the opposite of what people want. Not sure if they even read these forums and all the amazing feedback players give.

Amen. Ele needs a ranged weapon that doesn't rely on slow-ticking damage, so that they can actually be rewarded with realistic damage capabilities. Staff over-performed on stationary golems, so its ceiling had to be nerfed. Against moving targets, this made it underperform, putting us in the issue we have now.

 

Staff would have been better had they not done numerical balancing based on a terrible metric, but instead used something more realistic, like a chaotically moving golem, or actual enemies that hit back. It is a shame that the playstyle and feel are fun, because otherwise nobody would pick ele for its performance.

[AsterionStarbreaker.9564]

I'm rather... conflicted about the Catalyst to be honest.

Yay, Wells... so we're elemental knock-off scrapper... still, I hope we get even more survivability akin to that of every other class. Or even become as tanky as a normal medium armor (Yes I know Scrappers lose vitality... in exchange for generating barrier with every hit of their attacks).

 

On the other hand, supposedly Catalyst supplies rather useful boons like alacrity and so on according to the Press Kit that was released in regards to it.

 

Time will tell if I'll be able to Ka-braham with the huge hammer.

Edited September 17, 2021 by AsterionStarbreaker.9564

[Panda.1967]

Based on the attack animations shown in the teaser… I do like that it seems as if they are taking a fresh new approach to the hammer, making it a fast attack weapon rather than the traditional slow and heavy weapon it has been for everyone else…

 

but… I have to say… honestly this is the laziest elite spec design to date… it is literally just Scrapper…

[Downstate.4697]

You guys realize augments are the utility and the well os an f5 right?

[Panda.1967]

24 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

You guys realize augments are the utility and the well os an f5 right?

I’m not buying into the so called press release document… Nothing about that Dropbox document reads as anything official, and everything that it says that wasn’t in the preview videos are ideas that players had concocted based on vague details from the videos. I will not be surprised at all if what we see in tomorrow’s guild chat doesn’t line up with that document. Furthermore note the fact that absolutely nothing was said about the Bladesworn utility skills, because there was absolutely zero information to base speculations on for them. That document is just a well written compilation of player speculations based on what minimal information we have right now. I am absolutely certain it was written by a player and not arenanet.

[InsaneQR.7412]

51 minutes ago, Panda.1967 said:

I’m not buying into the so called press release document… Nothing about that Dropbox document reads as anything official, and everything that it says that wasn’t in the preview videos are ideas that players had concocted based on vague details from the videos. I will not be surprised at all if what we see in tomorrow’s guild chat doesn’t line up with that document. Furthermore note the fact that absolutely nothing was said about the Bladesworn utility skills, because there was absolutely zero information to base speculations on for them. That document is just a well written compilation of player speculations based on what minimal information we have right now. I am absolutely certain it was written by a player and not arenanet.

Well honestly ElE is more like a land druid that lacks wildshape and plant magic. Because eles dont study the arcane nor are they born with it. They command the elements more like an extension of themselves as far as I am concerned, but eitherway thats pretty off topic.

 

Mechanically i really like the wells and more AoE to play arround with. I hope hammer gets some decent mobility and ele more survivability.

 

I honestly cannot tell hat I am not a fan off because we lack information how the mechanic works and what trade off we willlget.

[Downstate.4697]

3 hours ago, Panda.1967 said:

I’m not buying into the so called press release document… Nothing about that Dropbox document reads as anything official, and everything that it says that wasn’t in the preview videos are ideas that players had concocted based on vague details from the videos. I will not be surprised at all if what we see in tomorrow’s guild chat doesn’t line up with that document. Furthermore note the fact that absolutely nothing was said about the Bladesworn utility skills, because there was absolutely zero information to base speculations on for them. That document is just a well written compilation of player speculations based on what minimal information we have right now. I am absolutely certain it was written by a player and not arenanet.

 

You can find it here under the ongoing player guide

https://www.zebrapartners.net/gw2-end-of-dragons/

Edited September 17, 2021 by FrownyClown.8402

[Usagi.4835]

4 hours ago, Panda.1967 said:

I’m not buying into the so called press release document… Nothing about that Dropbox document reads as anything official, and everything that it says that wasn’t in the preview videos are ideas that players had concocted based on vague details from the videos. I will not be surprised at all if what we see in tomorrow’s guild chat doesn’t line up with that document. Furthermore note the fact that absolutely nothing was said about the Bladesworn utility skills, because there was absolutely zero information to base speculations on for them. That document is just a well written compilation of player speculations based on what minimal information we have right now. I am absolutely certain it was written by a player and not arenanet.

To add to FrownyClown's comment, the press kit is also on MassivelyOP.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Usagi.4835

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

To be honest, it's not the weapon aesthetic or design on itself, nor the range; but the attunement mechanic and what will be our "sustain" mechanic that scare me.

We had "protection" and auras on tempest, barriers and vigor/evades on weaver ... what could we have again on a melee spec ?

Edited September 17, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Dadnir.5038]

5 hours ago, Panda.1967 said:

I’m not buying into the so called press release document… Nothing about that Dropbox document reads as anything official, and everything that it says that wasn’t in the preview videos are ideas that players had concocted based on vague details from the videos. I will not be surprised at all if what we see in tomorrow’s guild chat doesn’t line up with that document. Furthermore note the fact that absolutely nothing was said about the Bladesworn utility skills, because there was absolutely zero information to base speculations on for them. That document is just a well written compilation of player speculations based on what minimal information we have right now. I am absolutely certain it was written by a player and not arenanet.

I think the worse is that they seem to think that true nature is a core ability of the revenant. Can we please give the memo to the person that wrote this that the core F2 ability of the revenant is ancient echo?

Otherwise, The weapon may be melee but it doesn't mean that the spec can't be used at range.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Dadnir.5038

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, Novah.2510 said:

 It says it has some melee to mid-range abilities so it won't be totally melee or too much like sword.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shearing_Edge

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Frenzy

 

Plus all the mid-range or greater skills you can add to sword through having a focus in your offhand.

 

I'm hoping it means that too, but there are things in the teaser that look like melee fire skills to me (around 0:17), so it might turn out that having some midrange abilities on fire and air doesn't mean that it's actually viable to treat fire or air as standoff attunements.

[Genesis.8572]

 

22 hours ago, Eddy.7051 said:

Dislikes

• From the D&D perspective, Elementalist would be a high intelligence and low strength profession while hammer would be a weapon that requires the most strength out of all the weapons. The hammer seems like the antithesis to the Elementalist (unless it is a light weight hammer, like the conjured hammer - which also feels like a redundancy with the new hammer weapon).

(1) To quote Tertullian, "What does Athens have to do with Jerusalem?" or in thise case "What does D&D have to do with Guild Wars 2?" D&D is its own brand of fantasy as is GW2 its own brand of fantasy. The D&D perspective is kind of irrelevant to the GW2 perspective. 

 

(2) While hammers in D&D 5e would use Strength for most melee attacks (there are rules exceptions: e.g., Hexblade), there are not Strength requirements for hammers as martial weapons, only proficiency requirements. A Warhammer is versatile, which just means it can be used one-handed or two-handed for different weapon damage dies. A Maul is heavy, which only means that it imposes Disadvantage to attack rolls for characters who are Small, which would also apply to small Fighters or Barbarians. 

 

(3) There are so many ways for spellcasters to get martial weapon proficiency in D&D 5e that this objection is a complete non-issue. 

 

(4) Whether an Elementalist would be a 5e Sorcerer or Wizard is a silly frame of reference because magic and classes in GW2 are not the same as in D&D. They don't necessarily operate in terms of D&D's own idiomatic frame of references. 

 

(5) We are playing a game where the Mesmer and Necromancer can use a greatsword. Elementalists using hammers is not that big of a deal aesthetically.