What happened between the first an second batch of especs?

[zealex.9410]

The depth and creativity with both skills and traits of the vindicator, the bladesworn and the catalist compaired to virt, wb and hb is night and day.

How did we go from the msot simplistic and basic designs to these? Whoever designed these 3 specs can they please go back and rework the other 3?

Edited September 17, 2021 by zealex.9410

[Ashantara.8731]

I second that request.

[mungozen.2379]

Let’s hope the final eSpec beta where we can try all 9 has a decent amount of polish to it.  So far this has been an underwhelming exercise even for a beta. 

[ScottBroChill.3254]

I think it's per expansion that some of the professions get simplier especs and some get more complicated, maybe due to time restrictions or lack of ideas. Mesmer, necro, and guard all got pretty sweet specs with PoF so they probably got less attention this time around. Warrior specs have always been kinda bland to me so sorta glad they got a good one this time around, ele had weaver which is super fun but it didn't really change much, was more just ele+1, and tempest was extremely uninspired, they were due for a well polished elite. Rev keeps getting overtuned elites but that's because their core sucks. It's a bummer they don't flesh out all of the classes but i guess it is what it is. 

[Batel.9206]

Probably because it was the first beta, and the devs *are* still working on those first three specs. We weren't testing fully completed specs, we were simply testing the basic functionality. I hope that, when the first three return for the final beta, they'll be more polished - better animation, better functionality (especially Harbinger; great idea, lacking in execution), etc., and be more like this batch. This batch of elite specs has had a little more time in development - it's been a full month since the last test - so naturally they would be more polished than the last one. Perhaps that pattern will continue in the next test, next month.

...Or they just get boring elite specs this time around. XD (Though I really liked Virtuoso. I don't mind "boring" once in a while.)

Edited September 17, 2021 by Batel.9206

[Caid.4932]

25 minutes ago, Batel.9206 said:

Probably because it was the first beta, and the devs *are* still working on those first three specs. We weren't testing fully completed specs, we were simply testing the basic functionality. I hope that, when the first three return for the final beta, they'll be more polished - better animation, better functionality (especially Harbinger; great idea, lacking in execution), etc., and be more like this batch. This batch of elite specs has had a little more time in development - it's been a full month since the last test - so naturally they would be more polished than the last one. Perhaps that pattern will continue in the next test, next month.

...Or they just get boring elite specs this time around. XD (Though I really liked Virtuoso. I don't mind "boring" once in a while.)

 

I'll call it straightforward to be nicer. It has its place. I dont want every spec to be crazy and hard work to learn like weaver. I enjoyed Harbinger a lot more than i expected to or can easily explain, shroud was fun i guess and that goes a long way, I kind of feel they could drop that in the game tomorrow and i'd play it. It could be better im sure but it felt fun despite being pretty straightforward. Same with Virtuoso though the lack of synergy feels kind of limiting and i know reflects are going to be annoying at times.

I'm more likely to wind up playing Revenant or Ele and figuring them out and try weird builds on them. But i play alts and the more straightforward ones that i can pick up and play after not touching for a few weeks get a lot more attention that whichever of Rev or Ele i'm not playing every day will.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I'd argue that HB is close to a good state. But virt and wb are just pathetic in comparison to these new three.

Virt is a straight downgrade from core mesmer, clones renamed blades and the same shatters except worse damage and easier to avoid. No new mechanic at all, traits bland af, and to boot the only profession on game who didn't have access to dual weapon or two hand weapon on an expansion. Just a lazy incoherent design.

Wb is just offhand and new virtues who will be played exactly like guardian except with better mobility.

These two need a redesign for sure.

[Buran.3796]

 Don't known mate; the Vindicator seems a bottom tier PvP/WvW spec to me. Tho I'll agree that the Catalyst looks excellent.

[Diswan.8156]

Yeah, i also feel that the second Wave of elites are a Lot more interesting. 

From the First 3 elites probably only Harbinger is the closest to being a fun spec. 

Virtuoso is Nice but it also is very 1 dimensional

[Asum.4960]

35 minutes ago, Diswan.8156 said:

Yeah, i also feel that the second Wave of elites are a Lot more interesting. 

From the First 3 elites probably only Harbinger is the closest to being a fun spec. 

Virtuoso is Nice but it also is very 1 dimensional

What's fun or interesting on Harbinger aside from the inflated beta DPS numbers and the two mobility skills, which wouldn't even raise an eye on any other profession, though? 

 

Shroud + Pistol predominantly are just tab target shots, the Traits predominantly are passive damage modifiers and auras, and the Elixirs are all just press button for largely low impact/duration boons (and health loss), already set to not being able to compete with existing boon supports. 

 

I mean they barely talked about being able to do 5 man Quickness share on Catalyst with the baseline Jade Sphere because there was so much interesting and nuanced stuff to show off for it, yet with a single Trait dedicated to it (Sphere Specialist), it looks more interesting than what Harbinger can do with an entire Traitline and Utility bar with Elixir share. 

 

Meanwhile Harbinger is losing 80-90% of the entire professions defense (having the highest effective health pool) which it is designed around, just for damage numbers which can be at the mercy of a single balance patch, without any integral mechanical strengths to set it apart. 

 

Yea I had fun on it for the few days we had with it because it was new and the damage was exciting, but once the damage comes down a bit and the new'ness wears off, there really isn't anything there.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Fueki.4753]

Aside from the disgusting loss of the weapon swap, I was actually mildly interested in Bladesworn and Catalyst after the skill showcase.

But after the trait showcase, I don't care all that much about any of them anymore.

Vindicator was a no-go from the start to me. The showcases of both skills and traits confirmed my distaste for it.

Vindicator's greatsword is too similar to what a reworked and viable Staff should be like. They should have reworked Staff instead of putting a superior weapon in its niche.

It also feels a bit insulting that Vindicator gets better versions of both a Rush and Meteor Shower, without Arenanet going back and making those two better. But Vindicator is not alone with this issue. If Bladesworn can use Blooming Fire while moving, why is Hundred Blades rooting the user?!

My favourites of the new specializations still are Virtuoso and Harmbinger.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Loules.8601]

35 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Vindicator was a no-go from the start to me. The showcases of both skills and traits confirmed my distaste for it.

 

You just wanted to get Ritualist-like spec for Rev - with scepter/focus, just like other similar people - so it's no-go from the start to you.

36 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Vindicator's greatsword is too similar to what a reworked and viable Staff should be like. They should have reworked Staff instead of putting a superior weapon in its niche.

 

Nope. Staff - heal and support, GS - pDPS in AoE - so I don't understand logic in your statement at all. 
Two completely different niches.
 

[HowlKamui.5120]

I agree with this evaluation. Especially when it comes to the traits. 

The second batch has great traits that actually give you a choice. The first batch, for the most part, is strictly an "if your power choose this line, if your condi choose this line" design. What's up with that? You already choose to go power or condi with your gear.

[draxynnic.3719]

Possibly wait and see how they are when we actually get our hands on them? People thought Willbender was going to be the specialisation to set the standard until we actually got to try it, after all.

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

Bladesworn singlehandedly made me wanna play a warrior when it was previously the least interesting class for me. Whoever made it, please put them in charge of virtuoso.

[Diswan.8156]

27 minutes ago, Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

Bladesworn singlehandedly made me wanna play a warrior when it was previously the least interesting class for me. Whoever made it, please put them in charge of virtuoso.

And willbender 😉

[Drael.2015]

Yeah I feel the first specs just don't look as focused.

 

Willbender is the biggest offender here imo. Willbender flames are super tricky to get procs on with PvP/WvW moving targets since they are static. Much of the willbenders power comes from landing consistent attacks so little CC and skills like willbender flames which cannot keep up with moving targets do little to help keep the pressure constant enough to make willbender anything above all glass no cannon.

 

Willbender will struggle to keep 15% damage increase from tempo but catalyst gets 9% all stat passive buff?

 

Wb performs okay on a golem when you remove the OH sword and get rid of utilities, but the minute you actually try to get into PvP, WvW or try to use more of the class' tools it kind of falls on its face in practice. Definitely just a slightly different way to play core guard with no real individual flavour. Really impressed with the last 3 that were announced, they at least all look interesting esp the rev and war.

 

Please have a strong think about what you really want WB to do Anet, because it lacks consistency all over the place.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

The only one of these that really appealed to me was the Vindicator.  That one provided a niche that I've wanted for years, which was AoE power damage on Rev.  The others...

 

Virtuoso: theoretical black pill here, but I still think that the damage output of the chronomancer was nerfed just to make the virtuoso have something to do (single target power DPS)... because that's the only thing that Virtuoso does.  

Willbender: I'm still not sure how to play this.  It's just a guardian with more dashes and less passive virtues.

Harbinger:  Granted this one provides the niche of a group buffer, but it comes at such a heavy cost...

Bladesworn:  What does this even do aside from a big number?  Spellbreaker was boon hate and blocks, Berserker was condi damage.  I've watched the video and I'm still not sure what this is supposed to accomplish as far as class niche goes.

Catalyst: It's just Dagger/Dagger ele but with a different weapon.  Small rant here, but I hate how they took the ideas I had to make auras good overall as a whole, and put them in the Catalyst trait lines.  So, instead of Eles being good because auras are good, now the aura support on Catalyst is bad because auras are bad.  

[crewthief.8649]

10 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Bladesworn:  What does this even do aside from a big number?  Spellbreaker was boon hate and blocks, Berserker was condi damage.  I've watched the video and I'm still not sure what this is supposed to accomplish as far as class niche goes.

Power DPS…?

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

55 minutes ago, crewthief.8649 said:

Power DPS…?

We'll have to check that.  DPS is Damage Per Second.  If you need to wait 10 seconds to do 350k damage, then that is 35k DPS.  I'm not sure how well the other skills will do their own damage, but for comparison the Berserker can do 37k DPS with its power rotations.

[crewthief.8649]

46 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

We'll have to check that.  DPS is Damage Per Second.  If you need to wait 10 seconds to do 350k damage, then that is 35k DPS.  I'm not sure how well the other skills will do their own damage, but for comparison the Berserker can do 37k DPS with its power rotations.

I believe there were some traits that refresh, not to mention several adrenaline refunding traits that will work with Flow. 

[Afyael.1740]

I think the specs just look better when they're demoed by someone with cheats and zero cooldowns. I was very hyped by the preview video only to be disappointed when I finally got to test the spec out.

 

The only specs I've liked so far were Bladesworn and Harbinger. Both of which still need a bit of work. I have zero interest to play the other specs, they're chunkier and crappier than core classes right now.

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

Idk, I think all elite specs so far are interesting and a change in playstyle for that profession. But the only one I really care about is Ranger 😄 

Edited September 22, 2021 by TheLadyOfTheRings.9148

[Barraind.7324]

7 hours ago, Afyael.1740 said:

I think the specs just look better when they're demoed by someone with cheats and zero cooldowns. I was very hyped by the preview video only to be disappointed when I finally got to test the spec out.

 

The only specs I've liked so far were Bladesworn and Harbinger. Both of which still need a bit of work. I have zero interest to play the other specs, they're chunkier and crappier than core classes right now.

 

"Vindicator seems pretty fluid, and is mostly gated by ene...

 

Oh god everything also has significantly long cooldowns and the animation delays arent hidden anymore so everything feels slow and clunky and the jumps are so buggy..."

 

what a difference cheatmode makes

[Obtena.7952]

On 9/17/2021 at 7:03 PM, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

I think it's per expansion that some of the professions get simplier especs and some get more complicated, maybe due to time restrictions or lack of ideas. Mesmer, necro, and guard all got pretty sweet specs with PoF so they probably got less attention this time around. Warrior specs have always been kinda bland to me so sorta glad they got a good one this time around, ele had weaver which is super fun but it didn't really change much, was more just ele+1, and tempest was extremely uninspired, they were due for a well polished elite. Rev keeps getting overtuned elites but that's because their core sucks. It's a bummer they don't flesh out all of the classes but i guess it is what it is. 

It could be related to the amount of time put into the design ... I'm willing to believe it's also related to the idea that generally, it's good for players to have a balance of specs that range from simple to complex, even within a class.