Untamed Feedback Thread

[Lazze.9870]

22 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

The cc traits are ok, work well with LB+GS at least (Wasn't Untamed supposed to go away from that generic playstyle?)

 

It's what I said before, this will just slot into the same roles other specs. There is some teamfight potential in it if you commit to hammer and build it properly for it, but I don't see the point of playing it when other builds are more effective.

The best and most fun build I have had with Untamed is Remorseless MS+BM+Untamed, a damage upgrade to the druid version I played before. You stay unleashed most of the time for the damage, only use unleash pet for either openings or the utility. You don't want to be stuck in unleashed pet mode. The port cantrip really helps the build. Actually, it makes the build. It'd so much less effective without it.

This is basically core ranger+ with a few quirks. I'm afraid the "on CC" traits will be nerfed. It kinda feels like Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow on druid. Other than those and the hefty 15 % modifier from the minor, there is no other reason to play this spec. The middle and bottom adept and master tier traits are hot garbage. I don't see myself EVER picking those over the top row for any gamemode. The GM traits in comparison all feel valueable, like an actual choice.

Hammer does a lot of good things, but as a package it doesn't work.

If I could make a single change, outside of improving the pet control, I'd remove the cooldown on unleash. I don't know what it is about Anet and slapping on cooldowns on all our elite spec modes, but this one is up there with the double gated avatar on druid. It ruins the potential flow the spec could have had.

Still, I'd rather just remove the pet from the spec and thus have the foundation for this be a proper WvW spec for ranger. This inbetween thing doesn't really achieve anything.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[enkeny.6937]

Hi!

For start, I say playing the untamed was fun. Problem is, it wasn't impressive. Most of the time I thought: With soulbeast, it will be faster or it will be comfortable with druid. There was only 1 exception: underwater fractal.

Now for the details:

Pet:
no "Beast" abilities if unleashed.
Venomous Outburst: Poison is based on the pet stat that was active while casting. If you switch pet while the poison is on, the poison do no damage.
unleashing the pet do nothing expect switching the skills (I mean, can we get some passive effect?!)

Hammer:
First: where is the pet skill?! All the (main-hand) weapons has some skill, that give the pet something. Damage bonus for the next hit, do conditions with the next few hit, boons.... Hammer has now 11 skill and no-one gives anything to your pet.
Give the pet some fury please! (or cc)
the skill switching mechanics is a good idea, but it can only work, if unleashing has no cd. Now, if I want cc with hammer, I need to unleash the pet, and it is 10 second, Huge dps loss!
[and for the numbers, both skill version need the same base damage,  from the unleashed version, and change only the side effect. cc / damage boost]

Cantrips
they were... garbage. 

Perilous Gift: you are not invulnerable, just undieable, so you still lose hp during the 3 sec and if your pet is dead, you swap first, for 1 minute, you cant switch, if you don't bring signet, wilderness survive or beast mastery, your pet will be 1/2 at most ven you can cast this skill again.
No direct heal
not using your healing power at all. (maybe good, maybe bad)
not healing, but damaging the pet.
[I hoped, that we can finally get a heal skill that REVIVE the pet, instead we hurt our pets....
What I would like to see is something with revive the pet, heal a medium amount for both the ranger and the pet, and for ~6 sec cross-heal with attack. like strength of the pact]

Exploding Spores
low damage, extreme low area for cc. This is the only utility skill with cc, and extreme hard to target. It will work fine if it combined to a single area damage, instead of 6 separate, and cc every time.

Mutate Conditions
not too bad, but it is only removing condition once. so against constant conditions it is useless. Look at bear stance, healing spring, glyph of the stars. Wilderness Knowledge give you potentially 5 skills with condition remove.
so my suggestion: give it low cd and ad extra cd for every condition it converted.

 Nature's Binding
I haven't try PvP but it is sounded good. maybe stun-break make it better.
And it isn't count as cc so not interact with the traits

Unnatural Traversal
Seriously! lowering the cd if you hit the enemy, with a spell, you can't cast without target. So if you fail to shadowstep, not only you use your mobility, but this skill is go on DOUBLE duration cd! 
don't reduce the recharge, make it base 20 sec cd!
Maybe teleport the pet too, some pet interaction would be nice. (in global)

Forest's Fortification
not very useful in pve, but still it is good. Make it breaks stun.

Traits:
The most problematic part. You can choose not to use hammer or cantrips, but not for traits. That is why traits, especially minor traits, must be useful not harmful!

 

Minor traits:
Unleashed Power: Minor adept trait for elite specializations, nothing special, good as it is.
Natural Fortitude: extra vitality is good. Works well with Taste for Danger. make it give the pets too!  Also as Taste for Danger you and your pet gain Power based on vitality. (untamed need some damage potential too, this can help!)
Vow of the untamed:
- Serious need for change! 
- it gives nothing to your pet.
- you or your pet is unleashed, so your damage drops from 115% to 85%. it is more then 25% damage reduction (if you set the increased damage as you standard). hammer skill swap make it  bigger
- only strike damage, so condition build still can be usable with unleashing your pet.
 -unleashed or not, you are punished by this trait. WHY? 
So why not give the 15% bonus to the unleashed one and give the damage reduction to the other one. this gives you some actual interaction with the pet through the class mechanics. 

About the Major traits:
no hammer or cantrip trait

We have a trait-line for cc, but our cc comes from pet, that doesn't count, we have 3 utility skills (call lightning, spike trap, exploding spores),  1 in each weapon sets (expect torch and unleashed hammer!)

a trait-line for unleashing
and for pet/pet skills.

Adept traits:
Debilitating Blows: extra condition is good. can't apply because lack of cc. Suggestion: let the pets cc count too, please!
Cleansing Unleash: just look at Druidic Clarity, please! 1 vs 13! This trait is ridiculous!
Blinding Outburst: Again, if you try to copy a trait do it right! It is the worse version of Go for the Eyes!
[hammer trait]: for an idea: reduce cd on hammer (20%) , reduce the cd for unleash to 5 sec

Master traits:
Enhancing Impact: one of the best traits. again, it would be nice if it works with pet cc. (who gets the boons are another question!)
Bolstering Unleash: As I mentioned earlier, unleashed should work to give you AND your pet something. so whoever is unleashed gets the 5 might, the other get protection!
Corrupting Vines: a little extra, but not significant. merge it with Blinding Outburs, rename it as an adept trait, also may lower the new pet skills cd. (I don't remember that Pack Alpha works for them) or make one or all three into "Beast" ability

[cantrip tarit]: for an idea: 20% cd reduction, your pet inherit 10% (maybe) of your stats. 

 

Grandmaster traits
They were good! 
Fervent Force: Very potent! lack of cc don't let it sadly shine. Let the pet cc count and lover the cd reduction (from 4 to 3)
Restorative Strikes: This is what made the untamed so sturdy in some places. Only 1 change would it be nice: let the pet heal itself too!

Ferocious Symbiosis: May switch with Vow of the untamed. But Vow of the untamed focused for the unleashing mechanic, so it is better for minor trait. no change need.

 

And the numbers. Maybe I do it wrong, but even if they multiply the numbers 1,5 times then maybe it has some damage. I do not say, untamed have to make the same damage output as a soulbeast, but almost half of it... is terrible!

No role in PvE:
-has no damage ( OK, we have soulbeast),
-being cc oriented class, has lover cc potential then a druid, no heal or other support (OK, we have druid),
-can mitigate damage, but only from itself. (well... no need, soulbeast is better hang kite too).
what we have, that the other 2 elite specialization don't have: 5 target cleave, boon remove, projectile destroy, low cd self quickness. They are good for fractals... for a dps... but untamed has not enough dps...

I hope some of my suggestions will be helpful! 🙂 

[Tazer.2157]

I liked the switching mechanic. But the heal skill needs some adjustment. If the untamed is a bruiser that needs to be close to the opponent to land stuns, then all the AOE in the game kills the pet very quickly. All of a sudden you are left with a dead pet with no unleashed skills and no heal as well. Maybe the utility skills for the untamed can heal the pet a little, or make the heal less effective if the pet is dead. Right now if the pet is dead, then the heal is useless which makes the other healing skills much more preferable. 

[Canidae Canis.2861]

Hello Devs!   o/

First off – thank you for all the work you consistently put into the game. Is has been, and continues to be, my favorite game for going on a decade. I'm pumped about the new elite specs! The Untamed is a great concept but there are some issues that need to be resolved if it's to fit into the "front line" position. This analysis is largely coming from the WvW perspective.

 

Since PoF it's become very clear that medium-to-large-scale combat requires characters to have several mainstay components: AoE Boon application (stab, prot, aegis, quick, alac), Boon rip, AoE heals/cleanse, Barrier, ground targeted DPS, and of course mobility. Soulbeast was the closest we got to these requirements and it's really only in the niche role of immobilize. Stanceshare is awesome and I love it, but it provides only seconds of unique party buffs even when traited. Druid lacks so many of these core components that even it's massive heals don't give it a seat at the table. If Untamed is going to be a viable front-liner, it needs to have access to at least two of the above components. Being tanky and having damage reduction isn't enough. Ranger core and e-specs continue to get shafted over and over again when it comes to group support outside of anything other than raids/strikes (Druid). I think the only class that has less fun in big combat is Thief, and it looks like they're getting a barrier/well support spec that will fit nicely even if it's not Meta.

 

The biggest request I have for the Untamed is to rework the Cantrips. Right now they are rather underwhelming and bring nothing for group play. The pet unleashed abilities, however, are almost exactly the kind of thing we should have as Cantrips! Teleport with poison/vuln? Yes please! Boonrip/slow with a trait for corruption? Amazing! Bubble projectile hate with chill? Abso-kitten-lutely! The problem, as many others have pointed out, is that in any combat with more than 3 people the pets instantly melt and cannot be a reliable source for the most important support abilities of this e-spec. The unleashed pet abilities should be transferred to our utility slots so that we have greater control and reliability with these important tools. Unless pet durability/survivability is to be drastically improved we need to get those powerful tools off the pet.

 

Many others have stated additional problems with the spec and I won't echo them in great detail. To sum up the additional concerns:

1. Control over pet abilities is nice, but not at the expense of attack/return to me keybinds. Ideally we would have both.
2. Please add a toggle for auto-casting of Leashed pet abilities
3. Having the spec revolve around a single weapon feels really bad, especially since that weapon underperforms in almost every way other than CC. While I understand that having Unleashed versions of all weapons contributes to power creep, it seems like a viable alternative is to just make Unleashed Ranger a Kit with it's own set of five skills. Then we can use it with whatever weapons we feel like.
4. Add mobility to Hammer
5. Improve pet durability in competitive play. They don't need to be damage powerhouses outside of special abilities, but they need to not get destroyed instantly by ground AoE so that they can actually do something.

Thanks for all the work and creativity you bring into Tyria. Looking forward to exploring Cantha again!

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Exploding spores would probably work better if it was ground targeted. 

 

One of the cantrips should also be a sun break. Preferably Unnatural Traversal. 

 

It would be good if at least one of the weapon slots in core ranger into an Unleashed skill.

The best options are probably the 5th or the 2nd slots. 

 

Traits could use a bit more oomph.  For example:

* Blinding Outburst could also deal Crippled.
* Bolstering Unleash could also reduce the effect of Vulnerability on you.
        

----

The way ranger pets works altogether could also use an Overhaul. 

The list of pets is getting crowned and there's lots of possible animal skins we can't use because it'll mean tons of new skills, which is a shame. 

To solve that, the solution would be splitting skins and skills from each other for each type of pet. This way, you could equip them separately: 
                1. Select pet type: Canine, Feline, Bear, Moa, Bird, Drake, etc
                2. Select skill from those previously available to all the pets of that type, e.g.: dog pets would get dog Howls as choices.
                3. Select skin from those available to that type. Thanks to this, more skins could become available without having to add more skills, like all the Cheetah skins from PoF.  

Most skills would work with no changes since all pets of the same type share the same animations, but the howl of the hyena would have to be changed to work like a Clone skill, always replicating the appearance of the dog pet that uses it. 

Players would then be able to tame additional pets that give no extra skills, just new skins, like the different types of Chettah in Path of Fire or the Smokescale skin from Draconis Mons.  Each pet type would still have a default skill to make sure you can still equip them with one.
The same pet type could be equipped twice, just gotta make sure the same skill and skin can't be equipped twice. 

For Soulbeast, the beast mode skills would still go with the pet type, and the pet Archetype would now go with the skill equipped ignoring the skin selected.

Also, having Standard enemy models enabled would force the skin to match that of the pet that originally owned the skill equipped for the current pet. 

[Auron.5709]

Not sure if this has already been said (as there is 13 pages already), but felt like this needs to be mentioned.

Now first I echo with what other have said about the missing pet controls, pets/you can not use the normal pet skills during unleashed, lack of movement with a full melee weapon (hammer) etc and possibly the somewhat heavy reliance to the hammer as a whole spec. Other weapons can be used just like with druid but those will be very specialiced and niche compared to what the spec is best at. Also the spec does not really change or make the ranger feel any different to me. It seems like a the core ranger / soulbeast but with cc. Hammer feels like greatsword but a small change in flavour. The class still seems very problematic in game modes like wvw (unless you play a roamer) because it lacks non target weapon skills. I would have liked to see a ranged nature aoe themed skill set to give ranger a chance of playing in large group wvw fights. (Traps exist but they sacrifice the crucial utilities that ranger needs in pvp type of content.)

But with Untamed my issue that really stood to me on top the other issues is the unleash cooldown timer.

To me this mode switch should not have a cooldown timer like the engineer kits in use style or the cooldown should be way shorter. Reason is that the in combat you can not flow from mode to mode to use the skills in a good way.

Example 1: Pet unleash skill 1 with the teleport which you would like to combo with a pet cc ability for example. You need to wait for the mode cooldown to go away until you can use the teleport, chance the mode and then use the pet abilities. But what if your pet is in it's normal mode, enemy runs / blinks away, you unleash and teleport to keep up and then you sit on that unleash mode for several seconds letting the enemy to reposition etc and your pet does really nothing to stop it.

Example 2: With hammer skills. You want to use a cc but you are in the unleash mode. You go to normal mode, use the cc and then can not utilize the unleash hammer version that benefits from the cc as again you need to wait for the cooldown to go away. On top of the fact that the skill recharge is still there with the hammer. So you now have two cooldown systems working at the same time for hammer. System resembles the elementalists attunement idea but with less options and more reliance between skills.

The whole unleash system just does not flow at the moment in combat the way that it should considering how much idea there is to go back and forth with the modes. It feels like you are constantly making a unwanted decision if you switch modes. Sacrificing dmg or survivability for 10 or so seconds just because you wanted to use 1 or 2 skills from that other mode. You get penalized so much from that mode switch that most will not even do it. You either lose the buff you want/need or can not use the hammers changing skills to the fullest. And the pet can not use its normal skills at all during unleashed so what is the point then to go to that mode if you want to focus on pet skill control.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Auron.5709

[anonei.2714]

As I've read elsewhere I think the hammer having one skill that's a gap closer would be pretty cool and useful, or letting the hammer have a bit of range or AOE in at least one skill!

 

Another big aspect I think could improve is the visuals. Right now Untamed looks like a condi / poison spec. They look like a stinky character, enveloped in a stink cloud and growing toxic gas lumps from the ground. Stone or tree bark textures would feel better. Also maybe adding a bit of color, like red or orange would bring home that "untamed" aspect a bit more. 

The visuals of Virtuoso, Catalyst and Specter fit their respective themes much better [honestly I feel that way for all the other especs, it's just Untamed that feels a bit confusing]

I'm not commenting on traits and utility skills as others who are more knowledgeable are already doing a much better job than I ever could. But I still think the look is important and such a change would probably be way less likely down the road.

[Kaenaydar.5631]

May of been brought up if not i will say it. I would find the job easier as far as pets goes if we get to choose the pet UI. Say we prefer the Core UI that can happen say we dont then change it. The pets kinda feel a bit nerfed by that. I would be fine if the Untamed skills auto casted in raids and fractals given be less work for me in the field. 

 

As far as hammer goes the skills are really slow and not much damage so leaves us open for attacks.

 

The heal is bad i didnt use it given our pets are suppose to work with us rangers unless you went SoulBeast. Lets be honest a heal that kills your pet when you get a heal that is faster recast like We heal as One which heals both you and your pet. What will you choose in a fight given the pet should be your partner?

 

I want to like untamed and had hoped this would be a stronger build then core ranger. Sadly as the Untamed class stands its weaker then Core ranger in pet controls and pets damage and  our attacks atm. I hope when the class comes out some of the issues mentioned by others and maybe myself will be implemented to bring out Untamed full potential.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Kaenaydar.5631

[Matt H.6142]

I see what the playstyle is supposed to be offering, and I've often played melee ranger to truly be 'fighting along side your pet' but damage increases on disabled characters just will not be the most interesting gameplay.  Still, for me, I've not often used the CC pets, so it has me looking at new pets.  When ranger is unleased, you want the pet to do the CCs, and when it's unleased, the ranger should do the CCs.  Got it.

Hammer sorely misses the leap that greatsword has, so to have weapon swap on cooldown with hammer active hurts.

Nature's binding seems to miss A LOT, and the one time I got it off in WvW, everyone had Aegis.  That really took the air out of my balloon.

 

 

[Raiken.1476]

(Disclaimer: This is mostly from a PvE perspective.)

 

I have honestly no idea how this profession mechanic made it through. The trait Vow of the Untamed effectively makes it impossible to do your job (which is only DPS, since you have nothing to support with) while using your profession mechanic, since it's locked behind a (85/115 or about 26%) drop in DPS for the duration of the unleash cooldown. Not to mention this class's skills just don't provide enough of any kind of damage, even while using the unleashed hammer. Basically, you have one job because you bring nothing else to a team than damage, which anyone can do to some extent, and you provide too little of it to have any use in a team, and if you want to use your profession mechanic, it gets even worse. My main issue is... how did this even happen? Sure, the damage can be buffed, but the class got a permanent toggle between "damage mode" and "defense mode", but your profession mechanic is locked behind defense mode, and the defense mode brings nothing to a team. Then, to add salt with a dash of Carolina Reaper to the wound, the only weapon that gets unleashed skills is the hammer...

 

This is honestly terrible, and I have next to no clue how to fix it. If unleashing pet was permanent and didn't cost you all your damage dealing capabilities, but unleashing the ranger was temporary on a cooldown and increased your damage massively instead of being a "consolation modifier", I suppose you could get somewhat sensible DPS gameplay at least... but you'd lose the flavor of the spec, and it seems the particular flavor this one comes with is entirely incompatible with doing your job reasonably in any PvE group.

[jaif.3518]

I really tried to like it, but I don't.  In the end, I feel it's a core ranger with more work involved.  Yes, I know that I can do some cool things, and the numbers are likely better due to the swinging-buff, but the complexity of making it all work for so little extra just wasn't worth it, IMO.  It also doesn't feel (I'm talking about the fantasy here, not numbers) much different from core ranger.

 

I really think they should have gone-for-broke and let me **be** the pet, with my ranger body the AI, then me back to normal, with the pet the AI.  That would have been wild.

 

-Jeff

Edited October 31, 2021 by jaif.3518
lol, i said it backwards. :-)

[Kjudoon.2915]

Took me a little bit to figure this out, but once I got the hang of it it's overall fun enough it's the first elite spec I'd use on a ranger.  As for the rough patches that I'd love to see some changes to would be this:

1. At least one of the hammer attacks allowing me to either attack at a range greater than 320, or leap me into the fray instead of being required to use a utility skill. Similar to the greatsword's leap attack. (like 3-Overbearing Smash or 4-Savage shockwave getting an extra 300-600 range leap to the target as a good opening attack) Otherwise, the hammer is pretty fun.

2. Having your pet unleashed eliminates the special abilities of that pet making all pets essentially the same. It would be nice if the pet could at least keep it's special attack when unleashed.

3. When the ranger is unleashed you have to manually control all your pets special attacks which normally are done well enough automatically. That adds a lot more clicking and splitting of focus.

There could be some more explanation on the utility skills "Nature's Binding". I understand "Entangle" but the wording of the new skill leaves me confused and I couldn't really figure out what was happening from the animations. 

Just my thoughts on some rough edges that I felt could be made a little better for gameplay.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Kjudoon.2915
clarification

[RedAvenged.5217]

What do u expect, if it has a defense mode it’s not good in pve. Could be awesome in pvp though. Same recommendation though, at least up condition damage of pet unleashed, then we get alittle reward for it

[vrauns.3215]

Sugar coating is heavy in this thread, (in my opinion) this elite spec is not fun in anyway, shape or form, the hammer is uselss for ranger, copy/paste animatons from other specs, you can't use other weapons with unleashed if you wanted too, the damage is very weak, even if they buffed it, still wouldn't be fun, the new skills are weak and boring, some traits are good, but most are terrible, the pets damage is weak aswell, this spec felt like it's was in an alpha stage and not a beta.

[Ukon Cairns.9160]

im not much of a ranger player but untamed seemed fine... only fine. unfortunately the stuff its competing with in the betas and already in the game proper are more than fine, they're fun, or powerful, or absolutely absurd. also unfortunately giving more control over the pet by removing other controls over the pet isnt actually more control, i get that ya runnin short on buttons but untamed needs them, somewhere.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

When you Unleash your pet, it does nothing but autoattack, dealing next to no damage. Having the pet use it's own pet (not Unleashed) skills when it is Unleashed would be good, in the same way they do now (for example, tail swipe/Smoke Assault/Brutal Charge immediately off swap) then allow us to select one or more to auto-cast when we as the Ranger are Unleashed. A lot of the skills are such short CD that having to micro them every few seconds just to maintain the already lacklustre damage from pets is like having an extra job but paying 90% tax.

[Graven X.6091]

Double hammer + Quick Draw + Fervent Force is interesting.  I think you could remove the internal cooldown from Fervent Force.  It is already so low that when it does trigger it feels more like an inconsistency than a limitation.

 

Not enough incentive to pass Unleashed back and forth.  Maybe if it was a "Beast" skill and triggered traits?

 

Core traits that trigger with Beast skills could use consistent cooldowns and larger/consistent radii.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think we should just have pets do their normal thing and have the ability to interrupt a skill if we want.  

 

Even then, I'm not even sure I really want that after this beta.  For forever now it seemed like a good idea to have controllable pets, but after the beta, did anyone actually gain anything from all that control? I know I didn't, as I mostly played with smokescale and wyvern, and both of those felt hampered by me forgetting to trigger some pretty big stuff (smoke assault, wing buffet). 

 

 It'll be interesting to see where they go from here.  Many people mentioned beast skill interaction, but I want to see command interaction as well.  Even a trait that is as simple as 'lose two conditions on using a command skill' would open up a LOT of possibilities.  

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think we should just have pets do their normal thing and have the ability to interrupt a skill if we want.  

 

Even then, I'm not even sure I really want that after this beta.  For forever now it seemed like a good idea to have controllable pets, but after the beta, did anyone actually gain anything from all that control? I know I didn't, as I mostly played with smokescale and wyvern, and both of those felt hampered by me forgetting to trigger some pretty big stuff (smoke assault, wing buffet). 

 

 It'll be interesting to see where they go from here.  Many people mentioned beast skill interaction, but I want to see command interaction as well.  Even a trait that is as simple as 'lose two conditions on using a command skill' would open up a LOT of possibilities.  

There is fact that we are not familiar with the spec to think about, but I think the additional pet control does give some extra potential for burst damage and combos, although right now it is quite ham fisted.

 

Them changing shouts to commands makes no sense, unless Trooper/Soldier Runes are the reason.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

[Drakyrie.5923]

The good

• The theme, lore and idea of Untamed sound great to me and fits the fantasy role the ranger was missing. 

• The Major Grandmaster 1 trait Fervent Force is the shining light in the Untamed and makes it a lot of fun to play.

• Utilities are thematic and capture the nature role better than even druid!

• Being able to control all the pet skills is a great change and is such a game changer on many pets it feels like it should be part of core ranger, maybe as a beastmastery trait.

• The idea of the spec is great for PvP

 

The weird 

• There are no skills on the hammer that directly interact with the pet at all, unlike every other ranger main-hand/two handed weapon. 

• The Beastmastery trait “2 handed training” doesn’t include hammer, even though the disable effect fits it perfectly

• Pet swap with an unleashed pet doesn’t change unleashed pet skill cool downs (maybe intended?)

• Having ranged pets shadowstep in to use “venomous outburst” feels like a nonbo

• None of the pet unleashed skills are labeled as beast skills so there is no trait synergy

• “Exploding spores” feels like it should be a blast finisher.

• “Exploding spores” is very hard to land and encourages standing in hit boxes. Would be nice if there was more leeway or it surrounds the target if one is selected.

• I like the trait “restorative strikes” as an idea as Ranger needed better open world sustain, but I found it surprisingly a lot weaker than I expected. It is strange it does not affect the pet at all.

• Soulbeast has a trait (“Twice as Vicious”) that increases damage after disabling, which now detracts from the Untamed’s focus.

• The Untamed has no available damage focused elite for structured PvE. Strength of the Pack does nothing in a structured PvE setting where these very common boons are provided

• Not being able to key bind the pet to attack a target or to return makes the pet very hard to control

• Untamed doesn’t provide a new stun-break unlike almost every other elite spec

• The name “Untamed"

 

The disencouraging

While the Unleash mechanic provides an interesting flow in PvP, in PvE it provides nothing since the focus is sadly always offensive. This is compounded through many of the traits and mechanics which discourage you to never unleash your pet. Namely: 

• “Vow of the Untamed”, lowers your dps by ~30% and doesn’t improve the pets damage

• the pet loses the ability to do their normal skills, so after you spam the three unleash skills it is actually weaker

• you are stuck in Unleash pet form for 10 seconds (excluding Fervent Force) which is a long time to be a lot weaker. This feels especially punishing since hammer weapons skills share a cooldown unleashed pet skills will also be cooldown anyway. 

• There is no pet identity when it is unleashed, as you lose access to its unique pet skills, and pet swap does nothing

 

Other than “potential” damage the Untamed provides nothing in group PvE content that Soulbeast didn’t already bring. While I can understand not putting typical support on the spec such as quickness of alacrity a potential role it could bring is on demand aegis and stability (something that really only Guardian can do) which fits the tanky role nicely. 

 

Something that stood out to me was that Untamed would allow a Ranger to fight in tandem with the pet, with the non-unleashed one supporting the unleashed one. Unfortunately this doesn’t come across to me with the “on disabled target” effects of the unleashed pet feeling not impactful and many pets being unable to support an unleashed ranger in any way different from core ranger.

 

Whilst allowing us to have better control of our pet is great, it is also very tedious in more casual settings like open world events where now if you arn’t pressing these buttons on cooldown your pet is doing a lot less damage than it was previously. We should be able to toggle auto activate on pet abilities for the previously AI controlled abilities.

 

All the adept and master traits are not fun for build-crafting and in a structured PvE environment where all boons are provided, the traits essentially do not exist. Both the top and the bottom line are mainly focused on the Unleash Pet state which I have already described is a state I don’t feel encouraged to enter.

 

This has already been mentioned a lot, and was mentioned in the live stream, but having only the hammer interacting with unleashed mode feels bad and creates a feeling that we have to use the hammer to experience an Untamed. 

 

Armchair Developer Ideas/Suggestions

 

To capture the idea of fighting in tandem with the pet, one possible suggestion is to improve the ability of the pet to support the ranger, and increase the impact when the ranger supports the pet. 

• To improve how the Ranger supports the pet, one potentially fun change would be changing all the ranger weapon skills that currently enhance the pet while the ranger isn’t unleashed. These skills include but are not limited to: maul on greatsword, hunter’s shot on longbow, and precision swipe on the sword and would be classified as “unison” skills. Unison attacks would be the same as the core ranger weapon skill, but be slightly weaker for the ranger, but have an improved effect on how it supports the pet. For example, “hunter’s shot” could now shadow step the pet instead of providing swiftness, “crippling shot” from short bow could cause “rending vines” to do the boon corrupt (stealing the “corrupting vines” trait idea), and “winter’s bite” is what would cause “enveloping haze” to chill. Other examples could be taunting a target to get it off your pet, or providing defensive boons/healing the pet. When the ranger is unleashed these skills would lose these effects and be replaced by new effects(see below) exactly like how the hammer works. 

 

• To improve how the pet could support the ranger, this could be done by adding a new effect to the three base pet skills. As all pet skills have different cooldowns this will change how untamed value pets from core. Some potential bonuses that could be added onto the pet’s skills could be.
  F1 - rangers next attack does 50% more if flanking
  F2 - taunt the target
  F3 - grant the ranger aegis and stability (could be traited to provide to group)
  Then to follow this up, the Untamed while unleashed will flip the “unison” weapon skills I mentioned earlier (in the same way the hammer works now) to a form that no longer enhances the pet, but are now improved if meeting different conditions that could be set up by the pet including, if target is disabled, if flanking target, increased damage per condition on target, and increased damage for each defensive boon on the ranger. Unless the condition is met the unison skills would be slightly weaker than their core counterpart, meaning the ranger is more reliant on setting them up with the pet.

As a trade-off to core ranger, all pet skills could have a longer cooldown because of this and because of these longer cooldowns it incentivizes swapping who is unleashed in order to access the “unison” skills in the other direction. These changes would hopefully make Unleash Pet feel more worthwhile and provide an inherent trade off that now a lot more of the Untamed’s damage and survivability is tied with the pet which will be much more punishing to lose than core ranger.

[Kaenaydar.5631]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think we should just have pets do their normal thing and have the ability to interrupt a skill if we want.  

 

Even then, I'm not even sure I really want that after this beta.  For forever now it seemed like a good idea to have controllable pets, but after the beta, did anyone actually gain anything from all that control? I know I didn't, as I mostly played with smokescale and wyvern, and both of those felt hampered by me forgetting to trigger some pretty big stuff (smoke assault, wing buffet). 

 

 It'll be interesting to see where they go from here.  Many people mentioned beast skill interaction, but I want to see command interaction as well.  Even a trait that is as simple as 'lose two conditions on using a command skill' would open up a LOT of possibilities.  

As soon as i seen it all i could think of was this will make fractals raids and other things difficult. I main my ranger and i would want my pet in a raid to be stronger but i prefer to use my pet with it using its own skills ai. One less thing i need to watch in the fight and mechanics in raids.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Kaenaydar.5631

[Lazze.9870]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

did anyone actually gain anything from all that control? I know I didn't, as I mostly played with smokescale and wyvern, and both of those felt hampered by me forgetting to trigger some pretty big stuff (smoke assault, wing buffet). 

 

That's a player problem if you ask me. On demand CC (or, as much on demand as it gets with these AIs..) is a lot stronger than the pet doing it automatically after a swap. There are very few skils I'd rather have the pet do automatically. Then you have stuff like the bird swiftness which you can finally ignore completely.

[kharmin.7683]

On 10/29/2021 at 4:29 PM, Wiegrav.5729 said:

 and the hammer was a rather odd choice.

Not to anyone who had been reading the forums since the EoD expansion was announced.  Seems like everyone wanted a "bunny thumper" hammer spec. 🙄

[Lazze.9870]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Not to anyone who had been reading the forums since the EoD expansion was announced.  Seems like everyone wanted a "bunny thumper" hammer spec.

 

Some wanted that. Others wanted a good team fighter spec. Hammer is a good choice for that.

And then you have the weirdos that wanted rifle.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 10/26/2021 at 12:28 PM, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

I was hoping each pet or at least pet family at bare minimum would have different unleash skills. Instead it seems it's 3 of same skills on all pets:/ Major letdown.

Note: this is from the WvW POV.

 

This is on the mark. After testing I do not think I will have my pet unbound, the skills feel under powered and since they are the same I don't see the point. Each arch type should have different skills and they need to be boosted since its still easy to just drop the pet first. One option would be to boost the pet based on the toons build similar to the way that the mech scales with the engi. Having a core ranger, a druid and soulbeast, currently I don't see making a 4th for the new elite since it is not bringing enough to the table to warrant a build for it even if I like the way I can now control which of my pets abilities (which is a good change) to trigger to better control the flow of the fight.