Untamed Feedback Thread

[chemiclord.3978]

17 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

I dunno where you are coming from with this post, but BT in GW1 was all about the hammer CC and pet. Pets actually do good damage in GW1 because they have a +25% base speed buff which did not count towards the speed cap. And there were/are dozens of viable Ranger builds.

It was not viable because it got rid of the pet, it used it. And to use it was a build choice that required you giving up two of your 8 skills, since you need to take Comfort Animal and Charm Animal for PvP. 

Admittedly, I'm dialing it back almost a decade, but the overwhelming majority of Bunny Thumpers I saw dropped the pet and added additional hammer knockdown skills.  Maybe I am misremembering, I suppose... but I don't think so.

[chemiclord.3978]

Apparently, double posting is a thing.

Edited October 30, 2021 by chemiclord.3978

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

42 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

...Just looked at Revenant Greatsword skills and Ranger Hammer doesn’t event compare. Look for yourselves and see all the nice goodies on Rev GS, then look at Ranger Hammer. ..
 

OMG I know man, looking forward to playing this build. easily 25 self stack might to 4000+ power, 90% crit chance, a bunch of modifiers and heaps of self sustain through life steal, every dodge is a possible 20k heal and 34k damage. Spear of Archemorus is like 20k damage on light armor at 2000 range every 12s LOL.

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

15 minutes ago, chemiclord.3978 said:

Admittedly, I'm dialing it back almost a decade, but the overwhelming majority of Bunny Thumpers I saw dropped the pet and added additional hammer knockdown skills.  Maybe I am misremembering, I suppose... but I don't think so.

Perhaps. But Rampage As One does not work without a pet (which was then doing +50% IMS) and there is nothing as good without taking two slots dedicated to IAS and IMS and even them you only have conditional effects. Then you'd also have to drop Bestial Mauling which was 9s of Daze and incredibly powerful.

[Dante.1508]

Having the untamed skills only on hammer makes this really useless, and only half a spec..

[flowdragon.8635]

Someone wrote this in different words than I will: The Untamed is not an aesthetic class. I believe you could create a more visually appealing form of corruption, but that may already be deeply tied to the world you've been building. If you don't change it, I suppose I will just use my Timon and Pumbaa Untamed Duo. Warthog unleashed looks on point.

[ovenglove.9528]

I am not a fan of untamed, and it isn't because of its low damage. Damage could obviously be buffed, but for me it is the mechanics I have a problem with.

 

I wish the unleashed mechanic did more, or that it was more of a significant choice to choose who is unleashed. Maybe if the damage increase/reduction was larger when swapped?

 

I am not a fan of the idea that the spec is about disables and getting effects from disabling. In pve to me it feels kind of pointless as dps/support/boons is much more important. I would prefer the traits that have effects on disabling were changed to effect the unleashed mechanic more.

 

The hammer with better damage would be fine for pve, in pvp I think it needs more utility, a block, and a movement skill.

 

Right now to me it feels like there isn't a lot of ways to build untamed. There isn't much interaction with condi. It isn't as good at being like the ocre duelist as core takes the 3 trait lines it needs to make it work, and in comparison soulbeast is very versatile. I actually kind of prefer druids ancient seeds over the enire untamed kit at interacting with cc.

 

Overall I wish the power budget was shifted towards interacting with the unleashed mechanic over cc, and that the traits have more synergy with core trait lines.

[anduriell.6280]

5 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Perhaps. But Rampage As One does not work without a pet (which was then doing +50% IMS) and there is nothing as good without taking two slots dedicated to IAS and IMS and even them you only have conditional effects. Then you'd also have to drop Bestial Mauling which was 9s of Daze and incredibly powerful.

this elite cannot be further from the bunny thumper, pet will never get good damage because pvp, hammer will never get access to too much CC because pvp.

Bunny Thumper build is simply not possible in current gw2 balance, i don't understand why some are still obsessed in that concept.

[xXdevilhunterXx.3940]

First things first. This feedback is from the perspective of a PvE player who only dabbles a little in other gamemodes.

Also to clarify I am not some hardcore raid elitist who wants to push this specs dps to 50k. But unfortunately right now the Untamed is weaker than core ranger. I don't think that should be the goal of an elite specialization.

 

To me this spec feels like there was a great idea but not enough time, resources or will to fully commit to the idea.

 

Lets start with the Idea of the Untamed:

I personally love the a more pet focused spec. However with the current pet AI and also the UI that has been implemented for this spec, there are some difficulties to overcome.

Those problems have been mentioned here more than enough so i won't go into detail. For me the biggest downside with the new UI is the missing call target shortcut for the pet.

 

Next will be the new "unleashed" mechanic:

Again the idea sounds like great fun however the execution is lacking in my opinion.

Not only is the payoff for unleashing your pet very low, it actually feels punishing to do so. This is mainly due to the mandatory minor grandmaster trait "Vow of the Untamed" giving you a huge negative dps "buff" in return for some damage reduction.

 

The other part where the spec feels incomplete is the skill changes that come with unleashing yourself or your pet.

First of all, and this has been mentioned a lot, only having unleashed hammer skills feels like we are being forced into using this weapon. At the same time the hammer has no support for conditions rendering it basically useless for a condition focused build.

However as an unpopular opinion I do not think this should be the first priority in making this spec better. It would be nice to have unleashed shortbow or axe skills but that is not where I see the biggest problem with this spec.

 

Same goes for unleashing your pet.

It feels Weird that pet archetypes were introduced as part of the Soulbeast and now they are not reused. To me the unleashed pet skills feel like skills a versatile pet would get but not what i would expect for a ferocious or supportive pet.

Again I don't think that should be the priority but it would be great if something would happen here in the long run.

 

Now we get to the big point where i think the main problem lies and where the spec can be made great with a few changes.

The traits

There is pretty much only one trait that I think is great and I hope this one stays like it is.

"Fervent Force" - This trait enables so many things and i love it. It makes the spec fun to play. It also enables a variety of playstyles never seen before.  But unfortunately being fun is not enough to make a spec playable. What is needed is payoff.

 

Now to the big thing this spec is missing compared to other specs.

We are missing stat boosts and damage modifiers. There are tons of ways those can be implemented but here is my take on it and I think this would be a way to make the spec fun, interactive and give the class mechanic a worthy payoff.

As mentioned before it feels like we get punished for using the class mechanic. Here are some trait suggestions and options how those traits could be implemented to be impactful.

 

A. Give us incentive to use the unleash mechanic

In the reveal stream it was mentioned that the goal is a push/pull type of gameplay. For that we need a reason to switch between unleashing yourself and the pet that does not punish you for doing so. Therefore I would suggest a buff you or your pet get for x amount of time when being unleashed. This buff could easily replace the minor master trait "Natural Fortitude" and still somehow do the same in the end but hear me out first.

- Option 1:  you get 10 stacks of the buff when you unleash. the buff decays by 1/second

- Option 2:  you get the buff for 10s

Depending on the pet archetype you gain stats while you have the buff and your pet gains stats when it has the buff.

This buff could then easily be tied to other traits as well to make create a consistent row in the traitline that is about moving the unleash status back and forth between you and your pet.

 

B. The pet feels weak in general

Like I mentioned before Vow of the Untamed feels like a mandatory punishment for using the unleash mechanic. Again some options this trait can either be changed completely or somehow do the same thing.

1. Make it do the same thing but not really:

- When you are unleashed you gain offensive stats from your pet

- In return the non unleashed party gains defensive stats

The problem with this option: How do we choose what offensive or defensive stats are gained. Luckily there is already a fix for that in place.

2. Pet archetypes

Stout: toughness and vitality

Deadly: Condition dmg and expertise

Versatile: Vitality and Concentration

Ferocious Power and Ferocity

Supportive: Concentration and healing power

- Option 1:  tie it to my first trait suggestion and make the % of stats gained based on the amount of unleash stacks or while the unleash buff from trait A is active.

- Option 2: gain a flat amount of stats

I don't like option 2 as much because it is not as interactive. Option 1 gives more build diversity and rewards players for using different armor stats.

(the 10% dmg taken modifier can stay or not it does not feel like a big impact anyway)

 

C. Pets want boons too

This is on one hand due to missing stats which I already proposed a fix for and on the other hand due to the fact that it is hard to supply your pets with boons.

In instanced PvE content the pet will try to scoop up whatever "left over boons" that the party has to offer. This is not only a sad existence for our poor pet, only feeding of scraps, but also makes it inconsistent and weak.

Therefore I propose to make one of the master traits copy boons from the entity loosing the unleashed status onto the unleashed entity. This would again facilitate using the class mechanic and give payoff to using the pet.

 

Here are some honorary mentions of other trait ideas.

1. Pet gains stats based on archetype in % of it's owner to make pets more impactful in baseline performance

2. If Trait A is implemented add a trait that makes you gain

- for option 1 more stacks

- for option 2 make stacks last longer

3. Trait A can be coupled with a second buff that the entity loosing the unleash status gets to make that entity more tanky based on that buff.

4. A trait that increases casting speed when unleashed, stacking with quickness to give the player the feel of unleashing a big combo and then cooling off by letting your pet do the same

 

Summing everything up again:

The spec is fun thanks to "Fervent Force" but does not feel rewarding.

In it's current state it is weaker than core ranger or maybe can break even on a lucky day.

What is needed are incentives to use the class mechanic and damage/stat modifiers as well as buffs to pets.

 

I hope some dev reads this and can find a little inspiration in my post.

Stay positive and unleash the Untamed to it's full potential!

[Zaret.1450]

I think untamed should have a trait that makes pet gain the buffs the rangers gets, maybe with less duration.

[Link.6157]

Not an expert on ranger, and talking about pve. This is a fun spec to play and the hammer feels amazing.

The thing is... the way i like to play is pet always unleashed with me doing cc's.  So hammer is the main reason i want to play this spec, not the class mechanics.

[Gatvin.6510]

Spec seems interesting, but not particularly good. Cantrips, like cantrips in basically every class, have cooldowns that are too long to be practical unless they are really good, and none of these are particularly good. They feel very similar to the existing survival skills.The elite skill could be good, but with the current numbers, the beastmaster elite is mostly better.

 

The pet skills seems solid. Not especially interesting, but definitely useful. Having 3 more good cooldowns isn't something I'll say no to.

 

Hammer seems fine if this class were already specialized for melee. As it stands though, ranger is kind of built around the longbow. Hammer doesn't have any defensive skills or gap-closers to facilitate the transition from longbow to melee,  and the class doesn't really want to burn utility skills or traits on getting better at melee (and doesn't have many that boost melee effectiveness to start with) when longbow is its best weapon, and failing that most of the other class weapons are ranged as well.

 

Unleash also doesn't work terribly well to encourage players to get into melee range. Unleashing the ranger increases damage taken and dealt, which again plays into the ranged attack plan. That's an effect that you want to use when your opponent can't damage you, but you can damage them. If you want to encourage players to go double-melee weapon on a ranger they need to have access to the core pieces of other melee classes: gap closers, yanks, defensive+damage bonuses at close-range. And it does need to be pretty tightly tied to melee range or using the hammer, otherwise it will just be something existing ranger builds use to do what they already do.

 

All that is assuming the goal here is actually make a melee ranger. If that's not the goal, I really have no idea what's going on here.

[peggo.4067]

I really liked how smooth the hammer weapon animation felt and that the nonunleashed and unleashed pet skills dont share a CD, but thats about it. I hate to write basicly only negative things about the Untamed, but there are alot of things about it that just feel wierd/unintuitiv.

 

The Unleashed mechanic reads nice, but i feel like the cd is just a few seconds too long. When i watched the trailer i thought one could really juggle the buff very frequently. Has the buff is right now i would prob never pass it to my pet, because of the % dmg loss. i thought the pet would get the dmg modifier, but thats not the case. Also the fact that you take more dmg whenm unleashed feels bad. The visual effekt of the buff looks nice, but a little "dirty". I would have prefered a more "healthy" green.

 

Its feels wierd, that every pet has the same unleashed petskills. At least one of them should vari among the different pet familys.

I also think that the unleashed buff should work with other core ranger weapons. It should not even change all the weapon skills, but maybe just the Weaponskill 1. Right now, if i wanted to play a pet focused condition build, the untamed would give me no real option (which i had hoped for). But if for example, the main hand axe would apply poison or bleeding when unleashed that would help.

 

Because the F1 skill Attack my target is gone, the pet control is realy awkward. i had situations were my pet would just do nothing after i called it back to me and i had to wait for a CD so it would attack again.

 

I dont love the hammer skills, but i also dont hate them. The amount of cc is nice. The shared CD of the Unleashed/nonunleashed makes sense, but feels wierd to play with and a bit limiting. But i can totally see that one just have to get used to it.

 

The Healing skill feels counterintuitiv. in a pet focused elitespec its basicly killing the pet. every other ranger healing skill benefits the pet in some way. As it is right now i cant see my self using this. the potential heal and the invulnerability with the major tradeoff to kill your pet is just not worth it. Even more because the unleashed pet skills dont work if the pet is dead. they could just be cast around the ranger (like the engi).

 

The only utilityskill that i would use is the sporethingy. that one is nice. but i feel like it should apply poison or something.

For the other skills: there are just better options in the other elitespecs or even core.

 

For the traits: the only traits that have somewhat impact are the grandmaster. And i feel like you never want the % strikdmg healing one. The adept and master traits are all really meh and i believe you would feel no difference when they are skilled or not.

 

 

I cant see myself playing this in any pve content as it is right now. Even in a pvp environment i feel like ranger has already better options. But that might just be me, because i play any pvp environment very casualy. It doesnt bring anything new to the table and feels like core ranger, but somehow worse. I'd rather play core, druid or SB. It doesnt has to be meta defining or anything like that. It just has to be solid and should feel worth to play with. Its also not even that fun to play because a lot of things are just awkward right now and core ranger is much smoother. My friends say, it trys to hard to be something from GW1, which doesnt work for GW2. I never played GW1 so i have no idea if that is true or not.

 

I would really love a condi (maybe through traits or other unleashed pet- and weaponskill versions) and a soild pve option for this Spec.

[Swagger.1459]

13 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

My final feedback on this spec.

 

Just looked at Revenant Greatsword skills and Ranger Hammer doesn’t event compare. Look for yourselves and see all the nice goodies on Rev GS, then look at Ranger Hammer. 
 

The team just created another PvE minded Ranger spec completely at this point, and that stinks. Also, there are tons of weapons across professions that outshine Ranger weapon sets, with the exception of LB, so that’s not fun either and it’s happening yet again. I won’t even get started on how the Druid keeps getting the shaft vs all other support specs being handed out, now even Specter is turning out to be nicer in the support department. And condi skills and weapons need some upgrades still, but that’s another story… 

 

Honestly, given all the mobility, all the utility, nice coefficients, and nifty things dolled out to other sets of especs and their weapons… all of Hammer 1 skills on both normal and unleashed should be 900 range baseline. Hammer skills on both normal and unleashed 3, 4, and 5 should be 900 range mobility skills with evade built in. It’s the very least that can be done to make this Ranger spec comparable and able to be valuable outside of PvE land. 

 

Regarding pets… There are so many core issues with them that it’s not worth the effort to put much thought into them at this point, aside from figuring out a way to modify the UI to accommodate for Unleashed skills plus still having the basic controls. 

 

For the confused.

 

Vindicator - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W), with it's 2 handed GS, will smack you around in WvW and Spvp if you try to use the Hammer. Guarantee Vindicator will outperform in PvE as well. Best of all, they won't have to deal with pets, pet gimmicks, and unresolved pet issues, at the cost of lower base performance designs.  

 

Also, don't act surprised when your Hammer Ranger is still left out of wvw squads and you're left running SB solo. And you'll still be dreaming some team outside of dead Raids would really want Druids... then you'll eventually realize if you want to play Support there are still better options available, plus the new Barrier spamming + Healing Specter.    

 

But if you don't have issues swinging your redundant and subpar 5 target hammer skills while farming mobs in PvE or tagging mobs in the Mad Realm for ToT bags, then more power to you... But some of us would like something better than what is being offered so we can enjoy other modes as well. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Swagger.1459

[Zorpi.5904]

On 10/28/2021 at 10:56 AM, Zorpi.5904 said:

Man was i hyped when i heard rangers were getting hammer as new weapon and it sounded like new spec was focusing around pet. Was realy hopping some of the ages old pet problems finaly were going to get fixed, but it seams like nothing have been done. Pets still can't hit on moving targets(easy to fix by making pets faster/reducing they skill cast time/ increasing they skill range) and when ever they manage catch target they hit like wetnoodle, we still don't share our boons with them with out trait(fortifying bond should be made baseline and replased with skill that copy our boons on pet when we swap it), unlike mechanist golem our pets dont inherit part of our stats to boos them and make them tankier, there is no way remove condies from pets(traits and skills that remove condies from rangers should remove them from pet as well) and they die in secs on aoe and cleave, dead pet penalty is still 60sec and what worse with this new spec we can't call our pet back or do we have way to ress it fast like on soulbeast.

Thos are just problems core mechanigs of ranger have and things are eaven worse with this spec, sins it dosent bring anything in, except unimpressive looking and feeling hammer that is only good for cc spam, if you managet hit on anything with it. That weapon need to be reworked from the ground up to have some mobility, damage midication and synercy with pet. Personaly i would not take warrior hammer as source of inspiration, but instead take a look on skillset on Rampage or what rev and scrapper have on they hammers. It would be nice thing to have high damage numbers on hammer, but personaly i would take utility heavy weapon, that can be used to make our pets and allies shine. Switching skills on unleaching is nice thing, but thos skills need to look and feel different to make them interesting to use and there need to be other reasont to use thos skills than just spam to do damage.
Same way all traits and utility skills need to be looked and made sync with pets and have someting to offers to our group not just for our self. At the moment unleased pet skills feels realy unrevarding to use(they do low damage and have no trait synenercy, all pets have same skills) and same time my own skills do 10% less damage, but in other hand i see no reason why would i unleash my rangers sins then i only get +15% on my damage numbers witch still are only medicore, but same time loose all the utility from hammer and start to take more damage my self. I see no pont why i would use that new heal skill to kill my pet witch most likely is all ready ended dead when it should give me 50% of its healt and i get nothing from it. Someting like Defiant stance, Litany of wrath, Shelter, A.O.D,  would have been mutch more intresting and fitting healing skill. None of thee new skills have stun break and the only condi removal skill work only on ranger no on pet also. Unleache mechanic it self dosen't feel like it is powerup that i want to have or want my pet have far rather it feels like do i want to have permanent weaknes or vulnerability on me.
Because of all that this spec feels like it could have been somewhat ok 10 years a go, but have no place in guild wars as it is now.

Ater some more testing i think it is time continue this rambling rant and add some suggestion for improvements. As first thing i like to quate lore part where devs tell us what this spec is suppoused to be and how it should work.

 

''The traditions and power of the untamed descend from warriors of archaic Echovald. They are one with nature—the pulse of nature beats in their hearts as the relentless rhythm of life and death. The untamed share a primal bond with nature through their pet, juggling control of raw power back and forth to defeat foes—your pet uses debilitating nature-based skills to weaken enemies, then relinquishes that power to you for the final strike.''

 

One thing that i have start wonder during my time testing untamed is that nature energy witch should move between ranger and pet to power them up or more like absence of it in version we have now. When i read that text image that i get in my head is someting like revenant berserker, where that natural energy move from unleashed pet to ranger untill energy on pet has dryed out and ranger is filled and ready to unleash. Then ranger uses that energy to power him self up until it is all depleted on him and fully loaded on pet side and it can be unleashed. Now the ting is what that unload should do and i don't think it what we have now is what that is. What is should do is grant ranger or pet who ever is unleasehd somthing like berserker stance and traits we take mods what ranger and pet can do when unleashed. This way there is more freedom on making build, whole spec dont feel like hammer locked and pets uses skills we know.

Of course it would be wasteful trow thos new pet skills on trashcan and thats why they should be worked to be new skills we can get from traits and use them as skill modifier. Like lets say one trait makes unleashed ranger or pet(witch ever is unleashed at that moment) shadowstep on target when disabling a foe. Other corupt boons when pet or ranger unleash. That poison field projectile block feels like it should be part of explosing spores cantrip instead of it knockdown someone standing midle of that skill. When it comes to pet i think it would be better if this spec only have one pet but with boosted survival ability on pvp/wvw(maby extend that aoe protection at pve to on other modes aswell) and unleashing pet should res dead pet.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Zorpi.5904

[Zenith.7301]

Another elite spec designed with PvP first in mind and a grandmaster tacked on at the end as an afterthought to make us believe they ever thought about the application of this spec in raids and CM fractals.

[Yosenage.7298]

First of it was great!!! Although can we get more damage output? Lastly WHEN CAN WE WIELD RIFLES? 

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

11 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

this elite cannot be further from the bunny thumper, pet will never get good damage because pvp, hammer will never get access to too much CC because pvp.

Bunny Thumper build is simply not possible in current gw2 balance, i don't understand why some are still obsessed in that concept.

We are discussing Bunny Thumper in GW1, not Unleashed in GW2. 

[InspectorCaracal.2970]

So... I don't really wanna get involved in the discussion here, I just wanna leave some feedback for the devs on my thoughts and this is the place for it, so the rest of y'all please just disregard and carry on, thank you!

 

Moving on! I have zero experience playing a GW1 Bunny Thumper and also zero experience playing GW2 Hammer Warrior, so this is all purely my thoughts based on Untamed itself and my own playstyle and experiences on ranger.

tl;dr: I like the spec in general but the Unleashed mechanic is underwhelming.

 

First off: cantrips.

I was, I admit, ambivalent about them at first, especially the shadowstep one. "Ranger shouldn't have shadowsteps," I thought. "Ranger's mobility style is all can't stop won't stop, not blinks." And I still think that's a true assessment of the class, but in practice, the shadowstep cantrip actually felt really good to use. I especially like the parallel to the Unleashed F1 skill. All of the cantrips feel pretty solid, in fact, although I didn't really try out the elite much.

 

Second: the hammer.

I love the hammer - with one exception. The lack of a leap skill feels really bad. I can see how the shadowstep cantrip is supposed to take the place of a leap for mobility, but not having a leap of any kind to keep on top of my target while wielding a melee weapon just feels awful in practice. Maybe the 3 could be a leap first with a follow-up ground slam? I understand the "bunny hop" idea that it's supposed to evoke, but I'd rather have a real leap than a cute in-joke.

(Also, moving while in the middle of Savage Shock Wave looks amazingly awkward. I'll take floating around in mid-air like a shot from a fantasy martial arts flick over an animation lock any day, but I wanted to mention it.)

 

Third: the Unleashed mechanic.

To start off, let me just say: the idea itself? I love it. Swapping offensive/defensive mode back and forth between me and my pet sounds great. Sounds great.

In practice, I'm immensely underwhelmed. I know people have asked for Unleashed weapon skills for all the ranger weapons, but I think that's coming from a different underlying issue, which is that you can't feel the swap in any of the mechanics.

Ignoring Druid because it works so differently, but Soulbeast, you might think it'd be similar - you get a stat bonus and different F-key skills when you merge. But the actual experience of Soulbeast is super different because your pet is gone when you're merged, and you get different F-key skills depending on what your pet is, and that adds a new layer to the way you think about the game environment and aggro management and strategy.

Unleashed doesn't really do that. The only think Unleashed mode has going for it in terms of actual gameplay changes are the hammer skills, which is, I think, why people want more Unleashed weapon skills.

"But what about the pet?" The way the Unleashed Pet mechanic feels is just sort of like getting an extra half a pet, honestly. You get one fixed set of extra pet skills, but you still have the two pets in terms of health pools and stuff. Which isn't saying it's bad, but it doesn't add anything different to the gameplay. You just get to swap in and out your one Unleashed pet "kit" as well as swap between your two pets. It doesn't add any new layers to choosing which pets you want to use.

In summary re: Unleashed modes: the only real mechanical impact it has are the hammer skills (good!) and what's essentially a kit for your pets (interesting idea, but underwhelming in practice). It needs something else to be interesting.

 

Fourth: the visual effects

It's not as bad in practice as I feared from the trailer, but I still think it's just... too much. Could we maybe get just the glowy green vines/veins part without the silvery full-body effect?

Also, I don't know if it's my settings or something, but the pseudo-infusion never seems to show up on my pet, just the toxic smoke cloud.

 

And lastly, other thoughts.

I tried it out in WvW a bit - I don't do zergs so all the "front line" viability is outside of my experience anyway, but for the roaming/small group play I do, it worked pretty nicely, aside from the hammer desperately needing a leap attack. It feels so bad without one.

I think that despite its weak points, the specialization as a whole is really well put-together. It's a condi/CC spec and it knows it, rather than trying to be All Of The Things, and that's great.

Also, way before you started doing the teaser videos, I knew I wanted one thing: a defensive spec with Stability. And if nothing else, I got exactly that, so I'm happy!

Edited October 30, 2021 by Inventrix.3158

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

the pet unleashed skills do NOT get ANY benefit from the traits Pack Alpha ( reduction of the CDs) and Beastly Warden (taunt when using a beast skill).

The last one is even worse as premade builds provided by anet DO have that traits selected as if it was any useful in the unleached mode for pets.

[NIHILUS.4168]

So just to throw my 2 cents at how to fix this meme:

 

1. Id like grandmaster minor to be removed and have restorative strikes take its place, as lets be honest ranger power dps aint that high to actually make more change than mayby half a second extra life whit 10% life steal on Damange, also make it affect pet too and call it hunger (of the forest/corrupt/or whatever is apt lorewise, tho now that i think about it simple hunger sounds savage). Cantrip focused grandmaster to take leftover space.

 

2. Rather than constant switch between ranger and pet corruption state should be slow generating resource on damange, but multiply when you disable an enemy, like double existing lets call it unatrual Wrath (again you guys know Lore best behind mechanics) double when dazing an enemy and Triple existing unatrual Wrath on stun. When Bar gets full ranger and pet could activate to get visual transform and each time ranger deals power damange you daze foe for half a second and mayby deal extra damange depending on existing control effects on enemy and how long they last, as for pet it would get the 3 Skills but they would be turned into nukes that deal large damange and bonus when hitting ccd enemies. State would drain bar on dealing damange and large portions on pet use. Bar drains when not dealing damange.

 

3. Pet should retain its autocasting on its own abilities, as manually using them ranges from tedios on short cooldown abilities you want spammed to something ocationally useful. New abilities should still remain manually used, just you know make actually worth using.

 

4. Hammer should be reworked, remove unleashed versions. auto is fine, tho id add benefit when hitting ccd enemy. 2 should be evade, cap closer and a leap. 3 is fine 4 should be what 5 currently is a 2 second stun same cooldown mayby move boons here and 5 a killblow that deals heavy damange on 30 ish sec cooldown, again bonus damange depending on control status of enemy, or make 5 a 2 parter that gives boons insteed of 4 better boons depending on cc status (generally more might and always fury) again and then big boom finish i already suggested.

 

5. For better synergy alpha strike should be reworked to increese opening strike damange by 50% and moment of clarity to give opening strike on ccing enemy, remove damange bonus here and mayby swap whit remorsless. As for remorsless id change damange bonus to something else, needs some thought to what or remove completly (dps bonus on opening strike) and simply have it give o strike on fury, if moved whit moment of clarity.

Edited October 31, 2021 by NIHILUS.4168
Articulations a prosses, where end state is fluid.

[Harak.8397]

I wont pretend that I'm a veteran ranger player so the only thing that I will say ( at the risk of repeating what more knowledgeable players have already said ) is this: Getting untamed benefits only on the spec's given weapon is cheap. Having every pet get the same skills when untamed is cheap. A lot of EoD elite specs feel like they exist only for a specific weapon and and only inside the new trait line that comes with them. Compared to the intricacies of the HoT and PoF Elite specs, it all feels cheap.

Don't get me wrong, some of those are definitely fun but there doesn't seem to be any depth past the veneer of novelty.

[InspectorCaracal.2970]

2 hours ago, Harak.8397 said:

Having every pet get the same skills when untamed is cheap.

YEAH. The single-note Unleashed Pet skills are so disappointing. At least give us a variety of F3 attacks based on pet family or something?

Honestly, I don't even need/want special weapon skills for unleashed mode, but I want something. A bonus effect on cantrips when Unleashed would be a reasonable, but low-dev-effort addition, so maybe we'll get something like that.

Although if we are talking weapons, I had an interesting idea just now. Something that converts the CC effects on your weapon attacks to extra damage when Unleashed instead would be perfectly in keeping with the whole concept. You don't need to rebuild all the weapon skills that way, just add something (probably using the "trait" back-end) that sticks the CC effect into a damage conversion algorithm. Although it's probably more work than they want to do at this point.

 

I also forgot to mention earlier: I really want a better UI cue for when I'm Unleashed. Celestial Avatar, your GUI goes all blue and glowy. Beastmode, your GUI goes all green and glowy. Unleashed, you... get a slightly different tiny status icon in exactly the same colors, facing exactly the same way as the other status icon?

Please make being Unleashed more obvious in the GUI.

[RedAvenged.5217]

1 hour ago, Inventrix.3158 said:

YEAH. The single-note Unleashed Pet skills are so disappointing. At least give us a variety of F3 attacks based on pet family or something?

Honestly, I don't even need/want special weapon skills for unleashed mode, but I want something. A bonus effect on cantrips when Unleashed would be a reasonable, but low-dev-effort addition, so maybe we'll get something like that.

Although if we are talking weapons, I had an interesting idea just now. Something that converts the CC effects on your weapon attacks to extra damage when Unleashed instead would be perfectly in keeping with the whole concept. You don't need to rebuild all the weapon skills that way, just add something (probably using the "trait" back-end) that sticks the CC effect into a damage conversion algorithm. Although it's probably more work than they want to do at this point.

 

I also forgot to mention earlier: I really want a better UI cue for when I'm Unleashed. Celestial Avatar, your GUI goes all blue and glowy. Beastmode, your GUI goes all green and glowy. Unleashed, you... get a slightly different tiny status icon in exactly the same colors, facing exactly the same way as the other status icon?

Please make being Unleashed more obvious in the GUI.

But you glow green when unleashed...

Edited October 31, 2021 by RedAvenged.5217

[Zyreva.1078]

Looking at the spec from a PvP/WvW viewpoint:

Being able to directly control pet skills is great and a lot of fun to play arround with. (I wish this was baseline for all ranger specs). Loss of basic pet commands (attack, return) is not good tho. It can be worked arround, but that shouldn't be neccessary.

The cc traits are ok, work well with LB+GS at least (Wasn't Untamed supposed to go away from that generic playstyle?). The other traits are rather underwhelming and lacking synergy in every regard. Being forced into a trait that puts a permanent debuff onto you is also not good.

The „Unleashed“ mechanic is not very useful. 99% of the time the ranger wants to be the unleashed one, to access some of the actually useful pet skills as well as deal dmg. Unleashing the pet reduces dmg of both entities as well as pet utility, and the new unleashed skills and 10% less dmg taken simply aren't worth the downsides. CD for swapping needs to be much shorter, or unleashing the pets needs to do more. I disagree with the common notion that unleasing should affect other weapons but hammer. In it's current state it would likely make the spec worse (probably also a nightmare to balance).

Generally offense and defense/set-up isn't something you want to switch between once in a while in PvP combat. You kinda need to be able to do both at the same time or at least be able to swap very quickly. Even more so on a melee build, that inevitably has to deal with counter pressure while on the offense.

Hammer is bad. Its entire kit can get hardcountered by pressing WSAD. It is a short range, long cast time, pure melee weapon with zero mobility, ranged set up or „sticking to a target“ options in a game that is experiencing some serious mobility power creep. How is that supposed to work? Also has no reliable defenses built into the kit, forcing a very defensive build just to survive long enough to get a few skills off, further limiting the already rather low dmg capabilities of that weapon. The unleashed mechanic only makes it worse, since you can't access set up and dmg at the same time, and the swap cd as well as the shared skill cd make quick swapping and proper combo'ing nearly impossible.

Cantrip skills would be ok if they were weapon skills. But there are good reasons why most utility skills used in viable PvP builds are of defensive nature (usually stunbreaks) and those classes that get away with running only one or even no stunbreak have other ways to deal with cc. Ranger does not have that luxury. The port is good (due to the nature of instant port skills, not because this one is particular powerful. And because of the target requirement it can't replace an actual stunbreak skill, unlike lightning flash), the other's won't see much use, because those slots will be reserved for much required stun breaking and condi cleansing. Heal skill is utter garbage. Elite is ok – until you compare it to dolyak stance. The long cast time, short duration and high cd limit its usefulness.

Visually the spec is not appealing.

Overall the Untamed feels like an ugly core ranger with improved pet controls and a port (the boon rip is unfortunately lacking in both quality and quantity and therefore not worth mentioning) – but much weaker in the dmg and survivability department, which the additions do not make up for.

Being similar to core also means, the spec suffers from the same pet related issues. They die very easily against more than one enemy (and sometimes even in 1vs1), leaving the class without class mechanic in many situations.

In it's current state Untamed unfortunately can't properly fill any role and has no real place in any game mode.

It is also worrying that we don't get to test the new pets when considering how big of an impact they can potentially have on the ranger class as a whole and history tells that there is a tendency for new pets to be either completely useless or ridiculously overpowered.

Edited October 31, 2021 by UmbraNoctis.1907