Untamed Feedback Thread

[Gorem.8104]

18 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

None of the skills are labeled Beast skills, so..

I mean, they gave us a trait to modify the F1 to blind, when we literally have a blind on Beast skills in Beastmastery.

Classic Anet as far as ranger goes.

 

Yeah that, all they simply had to do was label all the unleashed skills as beast skills, then we'd even have access to 3 taunts on use, would be quite interesting. 

Instead they make them synergise with nothing and even add in a trait to waste a trait slot. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Gorem.8104

[Abyssisis.3971]

Mutate condition could be changed by simply converting x number of conditions into boons, rather than conditions into vulnerability as well as making it an ammo skill stun break.

Exploding spores could also inflict conditions based on the number of spores you were hit by. For example if you were hit by 1 spore, you got inflicted with poison, 2 spores, you got poison and torment, 3 spores, poison, torment and confusion etc scaling up to the 6th spore which inflicted the knockdown on top of 5 conditions.

unnatural traversal, others have suggested the pet should teleport with you, I think that would be a good idea to include that into the skill.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Abyssisis.3971

[Abyssisis.3971]

1 minute ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

delete, my bad double post

Edited October 28, 2021 by Abyssisis.3971

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

 

14 hours ago, mistsim.2748 said:

I guess the second big thing to mention is when the pet is Unleashed, the hammer does virtually zero damage....but the pet is basically non-functional or DEAD. And when alive it doesn't even do any significant damage. So...??? Given how squishy and bad the pets are with their AI, you'd need to make their autoattacks hit for 4-5k, which is dumb. In other words, the "Unleashed" pets feel totally anemic and ineffective. VERY little thought went into this.

Care to refine your previous statements about everyone who foresaw exactly this being bad low tier players and crying? Or are you including yourself in that group now too?

Can't you just use double Bears and Defy Pain?

[Brynioch.1873]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

Yeah that, all they simply had to do was label all the unleashed skills as beast skills, then we'd even have access to 3 taunts on use, would be quite interesting. 

Instead they make them synergise with nothing and even add in a trait to waste a trait slot. 

They can also remove Blinding Outburst when they are beast skills as we already have a blind on them.

[AzuritaBlues.3206]

I love it overall!

I just think the name contradicts the concept in regards of how much you can command your pet, can we have the name changed? 

I'll try to keep short on the feedback :I think Untamed  tryes to fixes the Pet interactions to make them more reliable and have more damage, but it does nothing for it's defenses (and a dead pet still equals to no Pet at all).

To correct that, the Cantrips (and maybe some traits) could affect your pet as well: maybe the cleansing one could cleanse the pet too; and the healing one give it invulnerability, block stacks or barrier instead of choping it's health; The elite could share the damage reduction to your pet and so on.

I feel the Pet damage is still lacking in PvE, but I'm still getting pretty crazy numbers in PvP (8k Bird Swoop - 11k Drake Tail Swipe - 24k(!!) Jacaranda Call Lightning ), with sick'en alone lol 

So maybe, tune down a bit in PvP and buff it in PvE?

 

About the hammer: props to the Art and Animation team! It's beautiful! and it feels heavy and powerful. Other players already pointed out what it's missing in the game play, but I give my praises to the team for the visuals! GORG!  💙

[Raven.8156]

After continued play: I’ve come to believe that the utility skills don’t offer much benefit. I am having to bring sic’em to buff the pet and frankly, the core ranger utilities offer more synergy with the traits, including other elite skills.
 

maybe the utilities should focus on pet buffs instead? There should be synergy with the untamed traits as well. Maybe call them Catnip skills instead of Cantrip skills? 😏

 

joking aside, the elite skill should probably provide some additional CC… 

 

one broken willbender can out-CC the untamed with a single elite skill…. Let that sink in. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Eric.7813

[Zinerith.5203]

I was shocked when I realized that unleashing the pet doesn't do anything for the pet. It seems like there isn't enough love given to the pet for an elite spec that is supposed to be centered around it. There's literally no incentive to unleash the pet for more than the minimum time, and to spend all your time in ranger unleashed mode. Shouldn't both modes be tempting enough for the ranger to consider which mode they want to be in? It would be especially interesting being able to viably run around with only the pet unleashed and have it feel great, because currently that's only possible to feel with the ranger unleashed constantly. 

1. Pet no longer uses it's skills, you have to. Normally I'd think this was ok due to the increase in control over pet skills, but this has a HUGE drawback that only comes up in this elite spec (which is ironic considering this is the only one the mechanic exists in). Now I get it, there's supposed to be drawbacks, but they REALLY need to be in something else, not the pet. The pet is supposed to be the main focus of Untamed, you can't then take things away from that same main mechanic, it has to be something about the ranger that has a drawback.
   1. Let the pet at least use it's normal attack chain when unleashed, and please make the pet share a percentage of the Ranger's stats when unleashed, the ranger already has the drawback of dealing less damage in that state anyway. 
   2. Alternatively, let the player decide which pet skills are on autocast and have the pet use them during it's attack chain like normal. I don't want to have to constantly be clicking a 2 second cooldown skill that the pet would have just used normally for another type of ranger. Even better, have autocasted pet skills still autocast even when the pet is unleashed. This way you can decide to give the pet more freedom, making it more powerful when unleashed, or you can command the pet making it less powerful when unleashed (though if you're commanding your pet when it's not unleashed you're probably unleashing it the minimum amount of time possible anyway).
   3. In my ideal world, I would say having less control over the pet and having the pet much more powerful is what unleashing it should do, and when the ranger is unleashed the pet defers to them and the ranger decided what skills the pet uses. I think that would fit the theme more, but I'm putting this suggestion third since I bet it's the one least likely to happen
2. Pet doesn't benefit from being unleashed at all. It feels like I'm using my pet as a focus at the cost of making my pet unable to do anything on it's own. It just doesn't feel like a pet anymore, it feels like an automaton. I don't really understand why it was a design decision to make the pet no longer feel like a pet in the elite spec that is about the pet, but whatever i guess. At least make the pet more powerful, right now there is no incentive to keep the pet unleashed like there is to do so with the ranger. 

[GanzerApfel.6578]

my general feedback:

the good:

• + unleashed mode for pets with new skills
• + new elite skills feels interesting , but maybe needs a bit of tuning up
• +unleashed mode for hammer
• + full control over pet skills

the negative:

• - only the same 3 pet-unleashed skills for all pet(familys)
• - pet-Unleashed  skills arent beast-abilitys, so little trait-interactions
• - no new unleashed skills for other weapons
• - hammer-skills  dont have any movement, block or evade mechanics
• -unleashed mode on player feels besides hammer like a boring statbuff.  Only the traits "bolstering unleash"  and "cleansing unleash" give me some interactions for going into the mode.
• - the visual of unleashed mode on character isnt very appealing to me

overall:
most of the time i felt like playing a core ranger with some new tools, that coud otherwise have bin fit into the beastmastery trait-line. The untamed missed the mark, to offer me a new way to see and play my beloved ranger and bring some real fresh blood to all the rangers out in tyria. unfortunately the untamed seems like a big disappointment to me.


 

Edited October 28, 2021 by GanzerApfel.6578

[Zorpi.5904]

Man was i hyped when i heard rangers were getting hammer as new weapon and it sounded like new spec was focusing around pet. Was realy hopping some of the ages old pet problems finaly were going to get fixed, but it seams like nothing have been done. Pets still can't hit on moving targets(easy to fix by making pets faster/reducing they skill cast time/ increasing they skill range) and when ever they manage catch target they hit like wetnoodle, we still don't share our boons with them with out trait(fortifying bond should be made baseline and replased with skill that copy our boons on pet when we swap it), unlike mechanist golem our pets dont inherit part of our stats to boos them and make them tankier, there is no way remove condies from pets(traits and skills that remove condies from rangers should remove them from pet as well) and they die in secs on aoe and cleave, dead pet penalty is still 60sec and what worse with this new spec we can't call our pet back or do we have way to ress it fast like on soulbeast.

Thos are just problems core mechanigs of ranger have and things are eaven worse with this spec, sins it dosent bring anything in, except unimpressive looking and feeling hammer that is only good for cc spam, if you managet hit on anything with it. That weapon need to be reworked from the ground up to have some mobility, damage midication and synercy with pet. Personaly i would not take warrior hammer as source of inspiration, but instead take a look on skillset on Rampage or what rev and scrapper have on they hammers. It would be nice thing to have high damage numbers on hammer, but personaly i would take utility heavy weapon, that can be used to make our pets and allies shine. Switching skills on unleaching is nice thing, but thos skills need to look and feel different to make them interesting to use and there need to be other reasont to use thos skills than just spam to do damage.
Same way all traits and utility skills need to be looked and made sync with pets and have someting to offers to our group not just for our self. At the moment unleased pet skills feels realy unrevarding to use(they do low damage and have no trait synenercy, all pets have same skills) and same time my own skills do 10% less damage, but in other hand i see no reason why would i unleash my rangers sins then i only get +15% on my damage numbers witch still are only medicore, but same time loose all the utility from hammer and start to take more damage my self. I see no pont why i would use that new heal skill to kill my pet witch most likely is all ready ended dead when it should give me 50% of its healt and i get nothing from it. Someting like Defiant stance, Litany of wrath, Shelter, A.O.D,  would have been mutch more intresting and fitting healing skill. None of thee new skills have stun break and the only condi removal skill work only on ranger no on pet also. Unleache mechanic it self dosen't feel like it is powerup that i want to have or want my pet have far rather it feels like do i want to have permanent weaknes or vulnerability on me.
Because of all that this spec feels like it could have been somewhat ok 10 years a go, but have no place in guild wars as it is now.

[wolfyrik.2017]

53 minutes ago, Zinerith.5203 said:

I was shocked when I realized that unleashing the pet doesn't do anything for the pet. It seems like there isn't enough love given to the pet for an elite spec that is supposed to be centered around it. There's literally no incentive to unleash the pet for more than the minimum time, and to spend all your time in ranger unleashed mode. Shouldn't both modes be tempting enough for the ranger to consider which mode they want to be in? It would be especially interesting being able to viably run around with only the pet unleashed and have it feel great, because currently that's only possible to feel with the ranger unleashed constantly. 

1. Pet no longer uses it's skills, you have to. Normally I'd think this was ok due to the increase in control over pet skills, but this has a HUGE drawback that only comes up in this elite spec (which is ironic considering this is the only one the mechanic exists in). Now I get it, there's supposed to be drawbacks, but they REALLY need to be in something else, not the pet. The pet is supposed to be the main focus of Untamed, you can't then take things away from that same main mechanic, it has to be something about the ranger that has a drawback.
   1. Let the pet at least use it's normal attack chain when unleashed, and please make the pet share a percentage of the Ranger's stats when unleashed, the ranger already has the drawback of dealing less damage in that state anyway. 
   2. Alternatively, let the player decide which pet skills are on autocast and have the pet use them during it's attack chain like normal. I don't want to have to constantly be clicking a 2 second cooldown skill that the pet would have just used normally for another type of ranger. Even better, have autocasted pet skills still autocast even when the pet is unleashed. This way you can decide to give the pet more freedom, making it more powerful when unleashed, or you can command the pet making it less powerful when unleashed (though if you're commanding your pet when it's not unleashed you're probably unleashing it the minimum amount of time possible anyway).
   3. In my ideal world, I would say having less control over the pet and having the pet much more powerful is what unleashing it should do, and when the ranger is unleashed the pet defers to them and the ranger decided what skills the pet uses. I think that would fit the theme more, but I'm putting this suggestion third since I bet it's the one least likely to happen
2. Pet doesn't benefit from being unleashed at all. It feels like I'm using my pet as a focus at the cost of making my pet unable to do anything on it's own. It just doesn't feel like a pet anymore, it feels like an automaton. I don't really understand why it was a design decision to make the pet no longer feel like a pet in the elite spec that is about the pet, but whatever i guess. At least make the pet more powerful, right now there is no incentive to keep the pet unleashed like there is to do so with the ranger. 

THIS! ZOMG! This!

[Martin Ross.7283]

I am having a blast on Untamed with fun disables and pairing those with the new pet skills. Trating with Fervent Force which reduce cooldown on disables mean I can dish out skills left and right. Controlling all pet skills is a nice addition. Good one Anet, I am looking forward to playing it in EoD. 

[LughLongArm.5460]

I figured why Untamed  feels so bad to play, and actually, there is quite a simple solution to make this spec really cool and effective. It does not need a full redesign and the adjustments could easily be made until the release. 

First let me say that it feels like A.net really wanted this spec to be a crowed pleaser. Its a mix of many ideas that were written on this forums. It got beast-master aspect(full control of pets), it got the Bunny thumper aspect(hammer, cc, etc), it got boon rip on pets and on hammer(which frequently was being asked). So, thank you A.net for listening. 

 

The issue with the current implementation is, that all of these part are in conflict with one another, this is how:

 

1)Untamed pet getting bonus damage from minor trait(and losing survivability), but loses all skills beside auto-attack, and basically loses the ability to deal damage(the new F1-F3 are not pet skills and are not damage skills, these are basically ranger utility skills that use the pet as location mark). So the Untamed pet is a weaker version of your regular pet with less survivability(not a great trade-off, and loses the mark on the all the "Beast-master theme"). 

 

2)Ranger Untamed - the real upside is coming from the new hammer skills. base hammer skills are about CC, Untamed hammer skills are about dealing damage on CC targets. The thing is, that the Untamed version of these skills only make sense if you consider the base skills in conjunction. But all hammer skills share CD and you also have to consider the Untamed mechanic CD. You can't combo the 2 together, This just does not work. Also, the hammer big skills has small range, stationary and very slow, so you can't even combo it with other weapons.  
 

Solution is simple :

1) Untamed pet is getting its original skills with the additional effects of the new F1-F3 skills(F1 pet skill also getting the Venomous Outburst effect, F3 also getting the Rending Vines effect, F2, "the beast skill", also getting the Enveloping Haze effect and its no longer a channeling effect) .This is basically the beast master fantasy fulfilled, you are getting your full power pet with with bonus damage, full control of pet skills and additional effects. Ranger that don't use hammer will probably camp this mode and will use the Blinding Outburst and Corrupting Vines traits. 
 
  2) Untamed ranger is getting the Untamed hammer effects and damage modifiers on top of the original hammer skills effects.
This way the hammer weapon will feel complete, still slow, small range and stationary, but also very dangerous. Sure, it will a be rule breaker for PvP to have CC skills that also deal Ok damage, but considering that this is what this spec is all about and that base ranger damage modifiers are not that high to begin with, I think it should be alright. 

As you can see, now we have 2 very defined and capable modes which offer 2 very different play styles. Unlike the current situation where the power level of the spec does not require any mechanical trade-off, but my suggested change will obviously will require a trade-off. The Suggested trade-off is: 

While the pet is Untamed, you cannot swap pets / While the ranger is Untamed, you cannot swap weapons(as Untamed hammer is basically 2 weapons in one). 

This is the main big change, no point in going deep on skills, utilities and traits until the overall untamed mechanic will be adjusted. 
       

[lombomon.7268]

The Untamed should be the Ranger elite spec that plays the most with pets, but the Unleashed state hardly affects the pet at all, only granting access to the three new skills. I think an overhaul of the traits could really help out with this. My thoughts (from a mostly PvE perspective):

 

General/Mechanical Changes:

1. The skills the pet acquires in the "Unleash Pet" state will be categorized as Beast skills. (I'll be removing their associated traits, as you can read below, as they will now interact with traits that enhance Beast skills)

Trait Changes:

1. Debilitating Blows: This trait has been reworked. Knockdowns you apply last 33% longer.
2. Cleansing Unleash: This trait now also cleanses a condition from the pet when Unleashing.
3. Blinding Outburst: This trait has been renamed Blinding Cantrips. This trait now causes enemies in a 240 radius to be blinded when the player uses a cantrip
4. Natural Fortitude: In addition to granting the Untamed vitality it will also grant the pet +240 vitality.
5. Enhancing Impact: This trait has been reworked. This trait now causes skills that disable a foe to grant the player and pet a stacking ferocity bonus (+40 per stack to the player, +120 per stack to the pet; 5 maximum stacks; stacks have an initial duration of 10 seconds)
6. Bolstering Unleash: This trait has been changed. It now grants boons to both the player and the pet when Unleashing, with the boons each receives depending on who is Unleashed. The one who is Unleashing will gain 3 seconds of quickness while the one is not Unleashed will gain 4 seconds of protection. (e.g. if the pet unleashes, it gains the quickness and the player gains the protection; if the player unleashes, the player gains the quickness and the pet gains the protection.)
7. Corrupting Vines: This trait has been renamed Corrupting Wilds. This trait now causes Beast skills to corrupt a boon on enemies. (5 second ICD in PvP/WvW)
8. Vow of the Untamed: Instead of granting different damage modifiers to the player based on Unleashed state, it will now grant increased outgoing and incoming damage equal to the current values to the player while they are unleashed and the following modifiers to pets while they are unleashed: Outgoing damage increased by 20% and incoming damage increased by 10%.
9. Restorative Strikes: You and your pet now siphon life (~80 damage/healing, scales with stats) with each strike. This life siphon's damage and healing effects are doubled for the one in the Unleashed state.

[Zadys.6239]

So after a few days, I decided to give you my feedback/opinion on the upcoming elite spec in EoD Untamed.

So let's start.
I warn you that I will be very brief I don't want to dive deep into it, just wanna share some things I'm a bit concerned about - keep in mind that I'm mostly focusing on Raids/Strikes and other instanced content in PvE.

-------------------
HAMMER
-------------------
Let begin with a hammer which is the new weapon that is available to a ranger. I'm fine with auto-attack it's Okay-ish, but other skills (#2 -#5) are meh. Hammer like a weapon overall performing really poorly in terms of damage with its current state now it's not a viable option among other weapons which are available to a ranger. Also, the thing I'm not pleased with is the same skill animation for multiple skills it's the case of 3rd and 5th  - seems like poor or just lame game design, I think you can do better, but TBF IDM if this remains the same. Untamed as spec has much bigger problems than skill animations.

If you want to keep 4th and 5th skills CC based be it but make the remaining 2 skills (#2, #3)  deal more damage or maybe enhance the final auto-attack chain on the hammer with some bonuses - it can deal  "conditions"  for example as dagger does on SLB or it can spawn some kind of circle/cloud AoE similar to guard symbols. Overall it just gives the hammer more value and the ability to compete with other weapons, because I don't see any real use of it except CC wise option.

In the current set of skills on a hammer, there is not a single combo finisher SADGE

-------------------
PETS
-------------------
That's probably part I was most disappointed with. I'm not going to talk about non-unleashed skills pets have, because it's similar to a default ranger, but the thing I wanted to mention is that EVERY skill is the same when I unleash a pet no matter what pet I'm using - This feels so rushed, non-complete. In the first place, I had in mind that you "devs" had not enough time to execute it the way you wanted and I deeply hope it's the case !!!

I already watched and read a lot of feedback people gave you or recorded on YT with their suggestions. So I'm sorry that I'm going to repeat what has already been said by many others, but why don't you use ARCHETYPES of pets you introduced in PoF elite spec of ranger Soulbeast? - It's already a mechanic which is present in-game, so you don't have to spend time creating something new. So you could just create a unique set of skills for each archetype and if you don't like archetypes you can still rename it or further optimize the stats to not strictly follow the SLB template. 

-------------------
UNLEASHED SKILLS on weapons
-------------------
This mechanics is indeed interesting I like the idea behind it, but why we can unleash skills only on a hammer? it doesn't make such a difference compared to a non-unleashed skills hammer has It just feels not enough to make hammer "stronger" while ranger is unleashed.

I expected we will be able to unleash skills on every weapon rangers have (but in the end it's only unique on the hammer) would it be cool to get at least 2 unleash skills on every weapon if all are way too much work??? 

-------------------
FROST TRAP vs. EXPLODING SPORES (utility skills)
-------------------
Exploding spores are a legit copy of frost trap with new animation, almost similar cooldown (25s can't be decreased by any trait) and worse damage  (12.096 compared to 14.400).  I expected probably some "conditions" like the poison or bleeding it would make sense from the nature of the name -  give it something to make it deal at least the same amount of damage like frost trap.
-------------------
TRAITS
-------------------
I decided to leave this topic to someone more experienced, but I feel like it needs some tweaks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summary  = The whole spec feels unfinished. Spec struggle with damage output, pets aren't really that much stronger how they should be in pet-focused spec (they're still dying a lot anyway). 

There is just something missing that needs a change otherwise it's gonna be dead spec which dies before you ever launch the EoD expansion.

In the current state of Untamed previous specs, DRUID and SOULBEAST easily surpass him.
 

These are my opinions if you dissagree with stuff above  it's fine

with kind regards

Zadyy 🙄

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Zadys.6239
Grammar error

[medivh.4725]

A lot of neglect have been on pet. Yet it is something unique to the class. There hardly any pet management as if anet given up on the whole pet saga. In my opinion if pet is killed in action it should trigger pet respawn time. The pet cannot be seen as dispensible or undestructable. Pet bonding level, pet training level, pet grooming, treats feeding. All missing. Then why have a pet? Pet owner have responsibility to protect pet hence pet management. Recall pet when pet is hurt, if pet die there should be penalty a condition on pet owner so to speak. This add a element of realism to game play. Pet are life animals so they should behave as such. That being said they should have their seperate pet health pool. For the Untamed or Soulbeast, merge with the dying pet to save it and prevent a pet respawn time. Pet system revamp very much required.  Otherwise there is no 'soul' in this class. It will remain very hollow.

You could almost feel the one designing pet-ranger combination didn't own a pet at all. One fun part was collecting the pets around the map. But then from there on hardly anything to keep the class interesting. 

The whole class could have circled around a revamped pet system. Druid, Untamed, Soulbeast, Ranger.

Edited November 5, 2021 by medivh.4725

[Scotus.7125]

I like the spec design BUT it has a lot of issue before it even feels like it can be viable. The big payoff skills in the Unleased state feel incredibly difficult to land and when you do it feels like I was tickling the enemy to death; 4500 - 6000 on crit. I would like to point out that all the 'big' damage skills (if you can line it up) still hit for less than LB 2 by almost 4000 damage and on LB 2 it has a 10 sec cool down and all you have to do is hit a button. I get what they were going for with hammer of the balance between disable your enemy and then use your damage to disabled foes, it just feels impossible to line all of that  up with such high cool downs.  Most of the time I find myself sitting with my pet unleashed so I can do disables. The spec does less damage than core ranger at the cost of either you or your pet have to take more damage.

 

Now, these are the changes I would make. First get rid of the increased damage and allow pets to use there own skills while giving you the ability to activate their skill when needed. This could be at a cost of longer internal cool downs and they don't use all of their skills just the ones they would typically use. The Spores fell useless since the knockdown only occurs when they get hit by all, make it a ranged and increase the ability to get the knockdown (ENEMIES MOVE!). Cantrips need a stun break end of story. Increase damage on hammer so that it doesn't feel like it was kneecapped and get rid of the increase damage on disabled foes as it feels really bad going against foes with breakbars. Make it so damage is increased against movement impaired so that cripple and immob. The spec is about the bond between you and your pet along with disabling your foe, but no traits that actually pay into this? Also for the hammer, hammer 4 and 5 feel clunky to use with their 1 sec animation charge, I feel like I am getting interrupted 70% of the time. Hammer skills have such a long cooldown for what seems like no payoff at all; can we please get a leap on one of the hammer skills. It almost feels like Anet is afraid to put damage on disables and then made a spec all about disables. All in all this is a good idea that needs a lot of work and tuning. PLEASE for the love of all things Tyria Increase pet damage and hammer damage so we don't feel like we are tickling our foes to death.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

As someone who has mained an engie far more than my ranger, i have to say i am literally angry for the rangers with this one.  Anet had an opportunity to really lean into the pets and give them all new skills when "they have the power", and they could have given some flip over skills for the other weapons in the ranger kits for when they "had the power", and Anet seemed to choose not to.  And it was a choice.  When they gave a billion new skills to weavers they couldn't wait to show us all they did for that elite spec, but for this one, they only finally unlocked access to all of the pet skills when in normal mode, and replaced them with the same 3 up close skills that all seem to hit like nothing while taking away key pet management skills like stowing a pet.

 

One of the tankier pets (bear) only seemed to have 53k hp and has almost no battle responsiveness, but the mech gets 58k+ hp and was running around wrecking everything with its normal attacks while my engie drank a beverage on a hillside.  I don't blame a single ranger main for not wanting to touch this one.  So many things need to change on it, starting with the STILL very unresponsive pets, and moving on to the fact that this whole set up feels very jack of all trades, master of none.  Power doesn't deal out enough damage and there isn't enough condi for a decent condi pressure set up.  All in all it felt flat and not at all exciting or fun to play.  It felt even less so after i tested the new engie spec.  

[HotDelirium.7984]

This spec has some thematic issues:

-If the point is to combo with our pet after it CC's that's fine but how is that viable with a breakbar and when only 2 of our hammer skills CC?

-Each should have their 3 Unleashed skills as relevant to the pet as possible instead of the same 3 skills. Why is my Moa now venomous, shooting out vines and fungus spores?

-What is the point to Unleash the ranger when we take more damage, pet loses its skills and we lose our CC skills? Not every pet CC's well, thanks to the pet A.I.

-Perilous Gift- Our pet can already be killed fast in different modes why on earth would we want to drain health from it? I'd rather make both of us invulnerable and both heal.

-Exploding Spores- the many white aoes on the floor is a bit distracting why can't they also be green and plant inspired?

-Mutate Conditions- this should be a stun break too.

Unnatural traversal- not everything needs a teleport, let it be more like we are burrowing along the ground and evading things on the way to our target.

-Nature's binding-this skill seems to be very niche for maybe wvw or PVP and in PVE will be next to useless. Since we need a few more CC skills why not have it also daze or inflict conditions. If this skill doesn't inflict crippling, immobilize it won't ever do CC damage making it less viable in certain fights.

-Forest's fortification- a defensive elite skill is cool, reducing its cooldown by striking is fine but the resistance triangle graphic ruins the visuals.

[latlat.4516]

I just ended my last session on the untamed for the week, so here's my feedback. For the record, I'm primarly a WvW player, both small scale and big scale, and rarely solo, and this is how my feedback will be oriented.

 

On the base concept & what I expected from the spec

    Currently, the ranger is missing one thing : a role in big scale fights. Currently, only the soulbeast is somewhat accepted, due to both entangle and the stance share, but otherwise the class isn't really seen in a good light, and for good reasons. And this is what I was hoping for this spec : bring a ranger build that would finally be viable in zergs. There are really a lot of ways to achieve this, depending on the role Anet would want the ranger to have. The role I would have preferred personnally is a damage version of the chronostrip build/a melee version of the marauder scourge.

    And I was actually really glad during the preview, since the class has the potential : boonstrip, melee heavy cc and burst damage, and an elite which would allow for more flexibility on how committed you can get. The only thing I had doubts about is with the pet, which has a tendancy to die real quick.

 

On the class mechanic : unchained

    The idea of having a a bonus/malus which you can toggle between you and your pet is actually a simplistic idea which is welcomed. You can stay on defensive mode when you need to use your unchained skills, and you switch to unchained if you need to up your own damage or access to the pet's skills. Simple, I like it.

   However, limiting the pet to a beacon that says where your unchained skills will occur when you are not unchained yourself is a bit limiting for the pet, which loses all skill access and does not get any bonus in return. It also means that if you want to get any meaningfull hit for the f2-3, ou need to chain it with an f1. It's also not clear if the range of the f1 untamed skill  is from yourself, from your pet, or if both range conditions must be met. 

On the pet managment

    At the beginning, I wondered where the trade-off for this e-spec is. And it is actually on pet managment. I don't know if it is intentionnal, but while gaining access to all pet skills is a really good and interesting choice, losing both the previous f1 and f3 made me realize how much I used them before. On these 3 days, I actually used the dome 5-6 times while I tried to tell the pet to not attack. I know it's still possible and is just not bindable anymore to call the pet on at your feet, but it feels really bad to use the mouse for this skill only (or for any skill at all), while not being game breaking. It's a matter of time before I can be used to that.

   Speaking of game breaking, please, do something about the bug where when you come back from underwater, the pet is stowed by default. I don't like to call some changes are "needed" or that the game "should get it"; but this is just something that impacts too much the e-spec to not be urgent. Since I have to go in my pet menu to unstow, it takes 2-3 seconds during which I'm not fully looking at what I'm doing. An the people I'm facing know this. Which means that -and it happened multiple times- people I'm chasing are actively looking for water so I either lose access to 3 skills (including 1 projectile denial), stop the chase or lose 2 seconds of attention during which I will be unable to target them. I don't really think this is "sane gameplay".

Also, this is a point for later, but ranged pets could use some love.

 

On the untamed skills : cantrips

    I have mixed feelings over these utilities. On one hand, they all look usefull and interesting to play in a build. On the other hand, they all have problems in their actual, except the shadow step and the elite.

    perilous gift (healing skill) is not that interesting. Indeed, it makes you immortal for several seconds, but it's not an invulnerability, and the heal is highly counterable. Furthermore, it's an untraitable making de-facto the longest heal cd of the ranger. Maybe it's valuable in PvE where the pet does not take that much damage. But I'd prefer someone that actually knows how the spec fares in PvE to advocates for that skill then.

    exploding spores is an high damaging skill, with no target cap but a 120  radius for the effect. Which means that it is really difficult to touch anyone with the skills. In fact, you need a non-moving target to even trigger one proc of the damage. But this skill is still usefull as en area denier and I would leave it as-is.

    mutate conditions is, again on paper, an interesting skill. It was though as a skill you could combo with survival skills in order to quickly cleanse yourself. However, not being a break stun and having a non-traitable 30sec cd makes it instead compete with survival skills. Once traited with wilderness knowledge, only the quickening zephyr has an higher cd (32 seconds),but gives quickness, celerity, breaks stun and cleanse conditions. And let's not talk about lightning reflexes, which outclasses both skills in terms of utility with its only "trade off" is being a movement skill. Yes, mutate condition could combo well with either of those 2, but GW2 only gives us the possibilty to choose 3 skills, that would mean already locking 2 out of 3 skills just for giving value to this one.

Speaking of locking 2 out of 3 skills in order to give value to one of them, nature's binding is actually not that good of a skill either, even if it would acutally be easy to fix it. When you compare it to the only skill with a comparable effet, hunter's ward, multiple problems are as clear as the summer's sky. However, I do think it's partly due to how overtuned is H'sW, but: 240 radius vs 360 radius + 1200 range. duration 4 seconds vs duration 5 seconds. no damage vs damage. 35 seconds vs 40 seconds. This skill litterally trades safety, radius of effect, damage and duration for a 5 seconds-long cd reduction and 1/4 seconds long cast reduce ! And even without the comparison in the way, this skill is just unusable if you are not committed to make that skill work. The only way I've managed to make it work is via a combo with unnatural traveral. Which means locking in 2 skills out of 3 to use one, leaving one place to choose between quickening zephyr and lightning reflexes. Personnally, I think that either removing the cast time or increasing the radius to 360 should fix the problem.

   Forest fortification is actually a very good skill. It has the same level of interaction with the nature's magic trait line as Strength of the pack (it actually is a defensive version of that command skill) and compensate its higher cd with the ability the reduce its own recharge time. The skill it competes against is the infamous entangle (which has a 48 seconds lond cd when traited). The comparison between these 2 skills is harder since they are not similar at all in terms of utility, and one little detail/need of your group can make you choose one above the other. 

 

On the untamed weapon : the hammer

    Let's be clear for this one : I consider the "switch skill" with the unchained a mechanic of the hammer itself and not one full part of the unchained. As such, I don't think giving other weapons switch skills is really necessary.  It would still be a fun thing to do, but I guess that just giving a little bonus on 1 skill should be enough (for example, dagger offhand apply celerity to yourself instead of inflicting cripple). 

    As a general point for the hammer, I think it should be a bit more lenient on mobility : please up the 2 to 150 range (like the warrior equivalent) and the five to 240 (from 180). Also, the 3rd skill could use being a chain skill; which would allow more active play decision with the unchained flip and mobility between these two skills. No need to make it 10 seconds between the first and the second part, 1 should be more than enough if your goal is to avoid using in-between skills that would break the flow of the skill. 

 

On the traits of the untamed

    I'm sure you've had that remark multiple times before : it feels strange that no trait is actually affecting the pet. I think one of the minors could use some added effect on the pet depending on archetype/species, especially vow of the untamed. There are so many ways you could mix that up.

    The next traits I wanted to talk about are debilitating blows and bolstering unleash. These 2 traits seems a bit undertune, and I don't see them having mush use. It may be a bit less true for enchancing impact and don't look like they would have much of an impact.

There is actually much to say about other traits, but to sum it up : the whole spec is held together by fervent force. This trait is forced to be nerfed sooner or later, and that day will be a dark day for all of those whose choose to play an untamed in competitive modes (like I'm planning currently). The goal would be to change a bit other traits so this one becomes relatively less important.

For the adept traits, I would give them the mecanist treatment : they change the effect of the f1 skill. With the current version (shadow step + conditions), a ranged version (for the pets that are not melee) and a defensive version of the current shadow step (which would allow to pet to not take damage for about 1sec instead of its current effects).

The master traits could use the ability to either enchance boon corruption (like currently) or to expand on boon strip in order to give ranger more possibilities for it. Boon strip on disable is already seen in the game, so we should maybe look for another trigger like on-hit when unchained with a per-target icd of 5-10 seconds (with this kind of trigger, we can even expand on the "bruiser/frontliner" romance).

 

tl;dr

Untamed is already fun to play. However, it is too dependent on its shadowstep and fervent force to feel like you have any pressure applying presence in a fight (which should be the role of a frontliner). Most of its problems could be solved with a small buff/rework, which would allow to nerf where it is really problematic. It suffers the comparison with the core version of the ranger as a beast master (sadly), and with the soulbeast as a pressuring frontliner. 

[Teratus.2859]

I really like the control we get over our pets with this spec, on command pet abilities is probably the best thing about the Untamed in my opinion.
I wish that this improvement was just given to the Ranger core class, it's something a lot of us have wanted for a very long time.

I've seen some complaints regarding the loss of the pet attack F1 skill that Ranger has currently but I don't really agree with it being that big of a problem.
Aside from Ranger I play a lot on a Minion Necro so having to manually send my minions to attack my target, switch targets on command as well as coordinating multiple targets with my minions attacking one target while I attack a different one without my minions switching targets is something i've been doing in Gw2 for a very long time.
Manipulating the Pet to attack and swap targets on untamed works the exact same way as minions now so it's really not a big deal to loose that original F1 skill.

The unleashed mode mechanically is interesting but in actual practice doesn't really feel great to use outside of Hammer.
The benefits unleashed gives to every other weapon besides hammer is practically non existent.. I saw damage figures increasing by as little as like 15-30 damage on some weapon skills while on hammer the damage differences are several hundred.
I agree with others here that all Ranger weapon skills need to be given the hammer treatment exclusively for this spec, their base skills need to be weakened when this spec is equipped and the pet is unleashed and the unleashed weapon skills need to be a good deal stronger than the current base skills are when the ranger is unleashed.
I think it's also fair to apply this same drawback to the pet as well with all pets being a bit weaker when the Ranger is unleashed.

I also agree with others who have brought up the pet unleashed skills being a bit incompatible with some pets, specifically ranged pets.
I don't really see any quick fix solution for this though and the best I can come up with on the spot is to maybe replicate what the Soulbeast does with merged with the various pet Archetypes and provide one different skill based on the Archtype of the pet.. specifically something that credits that Archetype.. support skill, ferocious skill, deadly skill, stout skill and versatile skill.
Expand from that perhaps the other 2 unleashed skills could then be defined by the species of the pet.. Feline, Drake, Canine etc.. and some could be shared between species for convenience.
It's a lot to ask.. and I wouldn't expect it to be doable by the time the expansion launches at this point.
But it was done with Soulbeast so I don't think this is too unreasonable a request for a future TLC upgrade somewhere down the road.

[Duke Blackrose.4981]

Natural Fortitude

Replace with Natural Bond, which grants you or your pet a stat bonus based on your pet's Archetype when unleashed.

 

Vow of the Untamed

I hate this. You're literally penalized in some way at all time. Just simplify it. Add 10% outgoing damage and 10% less damage taken to you or the pet, whichever is unleashed, at all times.

 

Unleashed Skills

All weapons should have them. Period. 1 skill per MH weapon. 1 skill per OH weapon. 2 per 2H weapon. Do better and finish this class. They can recycle the same animations as the regular skill, but they need to do different things.

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Duke Blackrose.4981

[HotDelirium.7984]

20 hours ago, Orion Templar.4589 said:

I'll try to add some more detailed feedback later, but just on the surface I'd like to ask that the visuals for being in the unleashed state be removed or reworked. After having spent so much time customizing my character's look to have it be covered by the brown goo is not cool.

I concur....i think the effect should be tapered from more concentrated at the feet to less concentrated near the head. I did not spend hours and money earning armor and dyes for it to be covered is musty vine mold.

[Infusion.7149]

9 minutes ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

I concur....i think the effect should be tapered from more concentrated at the feet to less concentrated near the head. I did not spend hours and money earning armor and dyes for it to be covered is musty vine mold.

Better yet it should only animate when changing state as revenant does and then have a subtle aura at your feet (herald facets) and/or hands (see the  Saga's End Draconic Core).

[Will.9785]

Why isn't "return to me" bound to a key (F4) and why is the untamed toggle bound to F4 instead of F5?  Seems like an obvious oversight... considering the return to me button is right there.  You can click on it but not bind it?

Why does your pet stop attacking?  If that's intentional then I'm not sure untamed was the right name for the spec.  More like TAMED.

Why is there a minor trait that grants vitality and another minor trait that makes you take more damage when you are unleashed and deal less damage when you aren't (which leads to you staying in the fight longer thereby also taking more damage)?  These 2 traits basically cancel each other out.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Will.9785