Specter Feedback Thread

[Zacchary.6183]

On 10/30/2021 at 8:10 AM, Androx.8572 said:

This is not what everyone wanted

What most thieves wanted was: not another DPS spec that offers nothing new and gets nerfed later anyway.

[Soulus.4308]

I will say first and foremost that I generally don't play Thief so I have no idea if things are actually good or bad, but my opinion of Specter was generally positive and one of the better specs to try out throughout all the beta events. Personally, like with wishing they gave Virtuoso offhand dagger as well, wished they had also gave Specter offhand focus as well, partially because of The Binding of Ipos, partially because they do still only have two offhand weapons to choose from.

 

So, Shadow Shroud, I kinda liked it but I will be honest I generally only used it as filler when initiative was low and there weren't wells to use, which would then be used up with Consumed Shadows for the healing and barriers, which felt like a good option as Shadow Force was restored pretty quickly. Downside to that, it means the tether function becomes pointless which is a shame as I like that idea.

 

Scepter I liked, didn't feel like there was much benefit to using the scepter 2 skill over the scepter 3 skill with either pistol or dagger. I personally preferred using dagger over pistol as offhand just so I wasn't shadowstepping constantly when mainly using the 3 skill, on top of the shadowstepping from all the wells. I do wonder if Torment should be swapped for another condition mostly because Thief traits work better with Poison and Bleed. As for the wells, they are neat but I don't know if they should all have shadowstep attached to them. I believe it's already been mentioned either on here, Reddit or both, maybe have the offense focused wells keep the shadowstep function (maybe with increased range or with a reduced cast time) and the support focused wells could just be placed only or have them drop where you stand.

 

As for the function of skills behaving differently for allies and enemies, I like the idea but the way it works for single target allies/enemies I do not like. The issue specifically, for myself and likely for others, is that this game has never focused on the idea of single target support because the game was never focused around the holy trinity of tanks, healers and DPS. So when more support focused classes came around, it's generally been focused on everyone stacking and receiving support through varying AoE effects, because you generally have focus on the enemy/enemies at all times. So, while I like the idea, the ability to swap quickly between enemies and allies, moreso having to focus on a specific individual within a group of allies, honestly feels like it would be awful and that's just when being in a party, if you're out solo that's going to be even worse.

 

Overall I do like Specter. If there was something I would want changing it would be how it handles support. Personally I'd like the idea of it being more of an aggressive support. I like the idea of the tethers, the more you focus on attacking the enemy, the more you can provide support to your tethered allies.

 

 

[TwiceDead.1963]

My final thoughts on it in this BETA. They have done exactly what I was worried about and overloaded the spec with support, and not only that they made it reliant on Trickery for it, doubly so because they removed initiative, so instead of the usual initiative-cost balance, they figured it was a good idea to just remove initiative outright.

I suspect this was because they didn't want to allow easy stealth-stacking because of D/P and mobility because of Shortbow, so once again those two weapon-combinations become the bane of thieves existence. Probably to shoehorn you into spending time in the shroud, and what a joke that is because there's 2 skills worth using in there and you can pop those in 2 seconds, then drop out to get that sweet burst-heal which is the best use for it. Shroud 1 is useless, 2 is meh, 3 is clunky AF and 4 and 5 are actually good. They are all interruptible. Good stuff.

The Specter's minor, adept and grandmaster traits are all support focused with little flair in-between, I foresee dead traits in the future. They should've been more distinct into damage, utility and support-lines.

They also made you reliant on Shadow Arts if you wanted to go the intended way for the spec which is support.

Shadow Arts. Again. As if enough thieves weren't running that already. To want you to utilize the stealth-traitline, they sure as hell didn't give you any stealth-access utilities or traits. Admittedly this is not a big deal, just use the old ones. I mean Trickery is the big bad but Shadow Arts is a close second in the pvp scene.

The wells without alacrity are useless in PvE group content. In instanced content and even open-world everybody already has the boons so there's no boons to give, and it doesn't even refresh durations. There's no conditions to apply, since the target already has them all. Your only utility is a channeled quickness and alacrity bot, where the former is unreliable as hell and the latter is actually pretty easy permanent alacrity but inferior to the existing alternatives since it doesn't affect 10 people.

Where most specs can do damage and support, Specter is one of those that can only do either or. Rot Wallow Venom has potential to alleviate that, but it doesn't replace the DPS of a lost player in it's current iteration.

For now it seems to be focused on the PvP side of things. It's sure as hell not for the raid crowd. The WvW zergers? Haha! No.

The roamers? Yeah there's some fun to be had there, that's where I had the most fun. Stealth-healing is a kitten that I am oh so happy to exploit and I had some very decent staying-power even when running a completely ramshackle stat-build. This is where the wells shine. sPvP'ers? Yeah probably, it has some pretty good staying power now so maybe it can actually contest nodes and break out of the stale decap +1 "role".

 

The spec is incredibly boring flair-wise. It feels rushed and unpolished. There's a bunch of pretty FX effects and quite frankly it's just too much, and it's really just there to mask the fact that there's not a single new animation in this package.

I'll reserve final judgement for release, but I was not digging it this time around. Playing support was extremely clunky with the friendly-targeting, it was borderline useless in action-cam. Any numbers it has now I expect to get tweaked polished and simultaneously nerfed into the ground because that's just the way expansions go for pretty much every class. We'll see.

Edited October 31, 2021 by TwiceDead.1963

[Kjudoon.2915]

I want to like this elite spec so much more but I came away feeling disappointed. I don't play a thief to be the group healer, which in it's current state is more the case than playing a guardian which should be as close to a healing class as we have.  Out of all the new elites, this one seems to have lost it's way the most in what it's supposed to be.

The good.

You get a lot of skills/effects to help allies. I love the scepter, and it's a relatively quick attack as it should be. I think this is a good compliment.

 

The meh.
Targeting allies to give them bonus health/armor/protection is a neat touch, but unfortunately, that means I have to choose between participating directly in the battle with DPS vs being the healer. That kinda doesn't fit with a Thief concept IMHO. Also, it's also difficult to STOP aiding allies instead of shifting to attack an enemy. Several times I'm trying to shoot the critter killing me and it keeps focusing on someone and dumping aid into them.

 

Shadow Shroud combat skills were confusing and difficult to tell if/what they were doing.  Too much helping an ally and too little helping yourself or damaging the enemy.

 

The bad.
I'm not happy that the Scepter is only main hand. It needs to be like the dagger and pistol and usable in both hands. I want a duel scepter layout with some better oomph in it's attack in slots 4 and 5. Not more healing. More firepower or more special conditions like the pistol and daggers get.

 

The Siphon I don't think is working as advertised. I don't steal anything. It doesn't seem to do anything when I siphon an ally either. What happened to anything stolen?

 

The elite skills seem to be aimed specifically at stacking torment or barrier. There's not much more to it than that.

Ultimately, as much as great potential that lies in this elite class, it's way too much philanthropy and far too little larceny.

[Ukon Cairns.9160]

possibly my favorite of all 9 we've seen. maybe even enough to move me from a necro main to a thief main.

as a condi dps with full vipers and tormenting runes scepter pistol was very comfy to play. 

the movement on scepter pistol 3 was a little janky but enjoyable,  love it creating distance on an enemy, closing distance on a friendly, or best of all overshooting when pointblank on an ally, that third one was sincerely the best.

the consuming shadow adept (major adept trait)  was kind of absurd. was a very comfy survivability tool but probably should be tuned down a bit. hopefully not too much cause i liked using it, but i imagine others wouldnt be pleased with thief getting a full heal and a half for such low investment. 

super lookin forward to playing more of specter once EoD is out.

Edited November 1, 2021 by deadteds.2659
removed a superfluous word

[Graven X.6091]

Siphon:  Using on allies should trigger modified versions of traits that affect steal.  Half effect due to cooldown reduction?
    Mug:heal your target.  Serpent's Touch:cure a condition on your target.  Even the Odds:extra rot wallow venom stack.
    Bountiful Theft:extend target's boons (1s)?

[Asum.4960]

12 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

An overall better performance. Your time in Shadow Shroud should always feel like a step up from "your normal self" but during the beta this just wasn't the case as you had more damage, better support capabilities, access to your other abilities and an overall more fluit gameplay experience when out of shroud. The fact that there is only one trait aimed at buffing the shroud itself is not helping either.

If people felt like they would be missing out while not being in shroud then they would actually use it instead of holding it back for a heal that might or might not be in demand which in turn would essentially be a nerf to the healing Consume Shadows provides.

The thing is, you do use Shroud (as DPS) and especially 2+4 are great to spam while your Initiative regenerates, which does flow quite naturally between in and out of Shroud. 

But the Shroud pool is so large and Shadow force generation so high, that you can still always run and greatly Utilize Consume Shadows anyway, since even after using Shroud fully (entirely regenerating all Initiative) you'll still have enough Shadow Force left to blast out an AoE full heal+Barrier, and even with consuming all Shadow Force, Specter generates so much of it that you'll have enough again in mere seconds when wanting to go back into Shroud again (even with the Shroud CD currently starting at Shroud entry, rather than exit). 

 

They only real way to disincentivize Consume Shadows would be to nerf Shadow Force generation, making it unfeasable to constantly go back into Shroud after seconds again if consuming all SF every time when leaving it, and/or nerfing Consume Shadows itself - which then would create a tradeoff between either using Shroud for damage while out of Initiative, or nuking it after some build up for massive support. 

 

Not to say Shadow Shroud doesn't still need some work to feel less clunky, it definitely does, but just buffing it and Specter with it even further definitely isn't a good idea, unless they tune down the out of Shroud kit considerably along with that - but personally I don't really want another Reaper where you only feel like a real class while in Shroud and are just using filler skills while waiting for it's CD and fuel to come back so you can be a real boy again while out of it.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Asum.4960

[RisenHowl.2419]

consume shadows should be heal for 20% of your remaining shadow force, both for pve and wvw

[Zacchary.6183]

2 hours ago, RisenHowl.2419 said:

consume shadows should be heal for 20% of your remaining shadow force, both for pve and wvw

Might as well just remove the trait.

[Zenith.7301]

The sound effect for the thief scepter feels so off, sounds more like gun shots than scepter shadow magic spells.

[aymnad.9023]

Golem

I really struggled with the shroud especially when trying to figure out a rotation. The skills were much slower than I expected. I guess it offsets how fast the rest of the thief kit can be but it made it less attractive. A small note, the wells did not look different enough. Maybe I missed something or my settings are too low but outside of come color swap I kept seeing the same shadow like figures.

 

Strikes

I played a few strikes with a low level group. Not enough players, not the correct gear or build and no team composition. While it does not carry as much as a scourge support I was really surprised to see what it can bring. Decent alac, some boons, rez, breakbars. I take back what I said after the preview and now think it can bring something to the game but it could get a few improvements. I thought that the targeting of an ally was be a bit too hard, especially when I wanted to change the target of the shroud (so I avoided most of the time and got in / out). I think sometimes I got tped backward instead of forward. While scepter works fine it also feels loaded to give thief all the tools to support. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by aymnad.9023

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

shroud should be filled with more shadow force for the amount of initiative we spend...if i spend 3 initiative i should get less back as opposed to using 6 initiative, this would balance the trade off of having low initiative using specter and make the incentive to spend initiative towards HIGH condi/power OR towards buffing / healing only limited by our current goal...keep em buffed alive or help dps.

this being said theres barely incentive to going into shroud right now...it needs a stealth attack WHILE in shroud based on the weapon we have in mainhand, which could in turn open up more build potential if we dont want to use sceptor...each weapon would have its own NEW unique stealth attack while in shroud JUST like how you guys (devs) tweaked unique effects for the deadeye. shortbow, dagger, sword, pistol. also allow the stealth attacks from this be choice of who we use it on...allies or foe...the trade off HAS to be worth going after an enemy OR an ally...1 torment that slowly widdles down the enemy is lacking...very much so making ally support have more dps with Rotwallow Venom.

really want offhand focus because there are NOT good looking legendary skins or skins in general for sceptors but im eyeing that Binding of Ipos like a hungry man...it BEGS for specter...

make the wells toggleable to if we want to port to its casted location or choose to let it time out, its not always wise to teleport all over the place.

with the wells being shadowsteps now and since other classes are getting shadowsteps now...un-nerf the initiative cost for shortbow 5...please and given there are new pulsing stuns out there, please revert choking gas to the original on May 16, 2017 or June 20, 2017...preferring the prior. make note the initiative should show this reflection as well. shortbow could be useful on specter

and for a shadow consuming elite spec...WHERE ARE THE BLINDS?!

Edited November 2, 2021 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230

[merdesa.5086]

I was excited for scepter as it wasn't a two handed weapon again, and not what everyone expected. I also love the color scheme as I've been running a purple Asuran Thief for so long, I now I have a weapon and shroud to match.

I primarily play in action cam so it was a little disappointing with the  bugged attacks although I found mashing 3  with scepter/pistol would actually get the beam off despite saying I had no target.

My few critiques:

I like the wells and the shadowstep with it, even if it occasionally put me in a terrible position (my fault) however, the range is shorter than the most other wells (Necro and Chrono); I think with the scepters range of 900 and the majority of the other wells are 900 (Scrapper wells are an exception), if I'm standing within my range I could still be over 600 away from teammates and unable to rescue with the heal.

I also felt the cast times seemed to be slow, maybe at most 1/4sec too slow at most, while the elite skill felt fine.

Like other people mentioned a low damage-only well feels out of place and wish it had something more added to it; I wouldn't be against one that blocked projectiles or had blindness.

I loved the healing well move, and was disappointed the animation wasn't used on some of the others, while the three utility wells used the same less cooler animation.

I like having a shroud but it felt slow and ineffective. I feel like this would have been a great time to give thieves the Unrelenting Assault animation as I think when Rev first came out a lot of thieves were a bit jelly of the move; when I pictured a shadow magic shrouds skillset I thought of that and not slow hits with less character in its moves --using the scepter is flashy and going into shroud should feel flashy and 'scarier'. I also would like some more damage plz.

I also wish I didn't feel pigeon-holed into running Trickery and Deadly Arts  to make the most of the initiative addition and condition boosts, or at least swap Leeching Venoms from Shadow Arts with Even the Odd from Deadly Arts, that way if I go all in on conditions and not stealth I can still offer more support to my teammates (and healing for me). --Although I admit I rarely use Shadow Arts and didn't find much to sway me into running it for Specter except for Shadow Savior or Leeching Venoms.

Edited November 2, 2021 by merdesa.5086
grammar

[Curennos.9307]

I enjoy having shadowsteps on wells, and I can (maybe) guess at why anet did it. For one...shadowsteps. Always helpful and adds an extra layer of usage to the skills. For two, having a support that has **that much** range on a ton of its support skills (as opposed to having to be near a target) would be absolute madness. I think having the required teleport on utilities adds some, imo, much needed risk. Part of what helped balance out other supports - focusing in on PvP now - was that they had to be **right** there next to the ally to do anything, or at least kinda close. Ofc there have been issues but it helped that supporting had some kind of positional limitation. Allowing a spectre to be more ranged than it is while still providing all the support to a single target that it does would be way too much, imo. I do think they could do with a bit of a range bump, though.

[ShadowKain.9410]

On 10/26/2021 at 7:15 PM, UNOwen.7132 said:

Its functional, but it neither feels nor plays like a thief. Its just a necro spec on the wrong class.

This.

 

I am a Necro main and I can't even begin to describe how disappointed I am by all of these specs, but Harbinger and Specter in particular. Harbinger and Specter feel like they should be switched.

 

Elixers and use of jade tech -> Thieves

Torment against enemies, single-target barrier healing for self and allies -> Necro

 

Barrier has always felt like a great "necromancy heal" it doesn't actually heal, but it allows self and allies "magic health" to keep fighting. Always envisioned this as dark magic fueling the body to endure beyond mortal limits, sort of like a living undeath. A magical class like Necromancer has no logic reason to be using jade tech and elixers when they have far more potent magic.

 

Thieves, on the other hand.. 

 

A faction/sect of thieves manipulating jade tech for privateering use, fueling their firearms and drinks with it to amass potentially dangerous power? How is that not a great idea? The idea of a thief already plays well with privateer/pirate themes, and it's a pretty easy step to think that some may use jade tech to "enhance" their brews and weapons in dangerous ways.

 

*shrug* I dunno. Other players can delve into the metrics of the skills and whatnot but thematically, this expansion's Specs are a gods-awful mess and make me feel like Anet has completely lost touch with its audience and the world of Guild Wars.

[Biermeister.4678]

Using well's Tears Silence and Sorrow and using measured shot are great tools in WvW just wish the class had better Stability and faster cast time after the teleport, range seemed shorter than Thief's normal port's

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

2 hours ago, ShadowKain.9410 said:

This.

 

I am a Necro main and I can't even begin to describe how disappointed I am by all of these specs, but Harbinger and Specter in particular. Harbinger and Specter feel like they should be switched.

 

Elixers and use of jade tech -> Thieves

Torment against enemies, single-target barrier healing for self and allies -> Necro

 

I would almost argue the general idea of Virtuoso should be the thief espec with psionic magic, etheareal blades, bladesongs and stuff - would be like Path of Exiles Shadow with the "blade" spells.

Damnit the more i think of it, the more i want this

Edited November 2, 2021 by Felices Bladewing.3914
more detail

[kash.9213]

3 hours ago, ShadowKain.9410 said:

This.

 

I am a Necro main and I can't even begin to describe how disappointed I am by all of these specs, but Harbinger and Specter in particular. Harbinger and Specter feel like they should be switched.

 

Elixers and use of jade tech -> Thieves

Torment against enemies, single-target barrier healing for self and allies -> Necro

 

Barrier has always felt like a great "necromancy heal" it doesn't actually heal, but it allows self and allies "magic health" to keep fighting. Always envisioned this as dark magic fueling the body to endure beyond mortal limits, sort of like a living undeath. A magical class like Necromancer has no logic reason to be using jade tech and elixers when they have far more potent magic.

 

Thieves, on the other hand.. 

 

A faction/sect of thieves manipulating jade tech for privateering use, fueling their firearms and drinks with it to amass potentially dangerous power? How is that not a great idea? The idea of a thief already plays well with privateer/pirate themes, and it's a pretty easy step to think that some may use jade tech to "enhance" their brews and weapons in dangerous ways.

 

*shrug* I dunno. Other players can delve into the metrics of the skills and whatnot but thematically, this expansion's Specs are a gods-awful mess and make me feel like Anet has completely lost touch with its audience and the world of Guild Wars.

It still plays like a thief, or at least you should be playing it like a thief. You only really need to tether to your people for a deliberate play, otherwise you can fill up on SF faster with bursts of offensive play. Even when I'm tethered to one of mine I still move like I do on most of my other builds (circle strafing around a friendly or positioning and orienting for a minute) and this Elite still lends itself to a similar use of space, it just falls short negotiating topography or being able to light up walls. 

It's janky handling of topography, especially in Action Cam, can sometimes ruin that old flow though. If you're having to trouble shoot terrain, line of site, and skill cones too often then you might find yourself moving more like a caster anyway just to avoid the trouble. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by kash.9213

[Ivaldi.5076]

8 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

It still plays like a thief, or at least you should be playing it like a thief. You only really need to tether to your people for a deliberate play, otherwise you can fill up on SF faster with bursts of offensive play. Even when I'm tethered to one of mine I still move like I do on most of my other builds (circle strafing around a friendly or positioning and orienting for a minute) and this Elite still lends itself to a similar use of space, it just falls short negotiating topography or being able to light up walls. 

It's janky handling of topography, especially in Action Cam, can sometimes ruin that old flow though. If you're having to trouble shoot terrain, line of site, and skill cones too often then you might find yourself moving more like a caster anyway just to avoid the trouble. 

 

I definitely disagree with that, the cast time on the wells definitely don't play like thief, the Action Cam issues entirely ruin the flow;  you literally cannot use the dual attack skill frequently unless you turn off action cam and turn it back on constantly.  All the shroud skills being interruptible are also not thief like.    What part of the new class feels like thief to you?  All you've listed is positioning.  Maybe the single target focus? but I'd argue that just feels bad in general due to the GW2 UI.

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

2 hours ago, Ivaldi.5076 said:

 

I definitely disagree with that, the cast time on the wells definitely don't play like thief, the Action Cam issues entirely ruin the flow;  you literally cannot use the dual attack skill frequently unless you turn off action cam and turn it back on constantly.  All the shroud skills being interruptible are also not thief like.    What part of the new class feels like thief to you?  All you've listed is positioning.  Maybe the single target focus? but I'd argue that just feels bad in general due to the GW2 UI.

Yeah agreed, just because you have mobility, single target focus and using Ini as Ressource it isnt Thief - just because a Prius  has an engine, a transmission and runs on gasoline (partly) it isnt a sportscar either.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Felices Bladewing.3914

[scerevisiae.1972]

Overall I liked it. Very unique playstyle and I really like how it still felt "thief-y".

but:

I think Sceptre is a bit too pigeon-holed into being support weapon. sceptre and well dmg felt very underwhelming when played as a pure power spec.

I disliked the sceptre sound effects. Doesn't match the animation and doesn't sound "shadow-y" at all. Kind of irritating sound actually.

Strong dislike that trickery felt mandatory for the 3 extra initiative. I think you should re-tweak so that baseline ini is higher or the effect of trickery is less. 50% more ini (vs 25% more on other specs) is just too good not to choose every time. eg: 8 baseline, 10 with trickery (still 25%).

Shroud skills were overall great but Sceptre was pretty meh. 

 

[AikijinX.6258]

I believe the Well for our ultimate ability needs to have something else tied to it to feel like an ultimate, maybe with each pull it rips boons or something. And also is it too much to have an ULTIMATE be 900-1200 range? 
 

And make all the Wells flip type utilities, so we can CHOOSE whether or not we want to shadowstep into danger. You know.. Autonomy?

[Tails.9372]

On 11/1/2021 at 8:37 AM, Asum.4960 said:

The thing is, you do use Shroud (as DPS) and especially 2+4 are great to spam while your Initiative regenerates, which does flow quite naturally between in and out of Shroud. 

Only a small part of the player base trying to maximize their dps does that by using a couple of skills and then discarding it right after. Thats not using the shroud, its picking up the scraps and discarding the rest right after and as I said earlier the highlight of the class mechanic has to work for everyone and not just a small portion of the playerbase trying to optimize their rotation.

On 11/1/2021 at 8:37 AM, Asum.4960 said:

But the Shroud pool is so large and Shadow force generation so high, that you can still always run and greatly Utilize Consume Shadows anyway, since even after using Shroud fully (entirely regenerating all Initiative) you'll still have enough Shadow Force left to blast out an AoE full heal+Barrier, and even with consuming all Shadow Force, Specter generates so much of it that you'll have enough again in mere seconds when wanting to go back into Shroud again (even with the Shroud CD currently starting at Shroud entry, rather than exit). 

A lot of the shroud generation that lead to SF instantly being full again was the result of a bug so that doesn't really mean anything and if people would actually stay in shroud and not immediately discard it once they got what they wanted then the healing would also be significantly lower.

On 11/1/2021 at 8:37 AM, Asum.4960 said:

They only real way to disincentivize Consume Shadows would be to nerf Shadow Force generation, making it unfeasable to constantly go back into Shroud after seconds again if consuming all SF every time when leaving it, and/or nerfing Consume Shadows itself - which then would create a tradeoff between either using Shroud for damage while out of Initiative, or nuking it after some build up for massive support. 

The inevitable bugfix should already town down shadow force generation considerably but that aside your conclusion that lowering shadow force generation is "They only real way" to disincentivize people from using Consume Shadows is just disingenuous. Making people want to stay in SS (unless the situation demands otherwise) would disincentivize them from using it and so would giving people some actual alternatives as the other two traits are just lackluster (not just by comparison but in general) to put it mildly (especially Second Opinion).

On 11/1/2021 at 8:37 AM, Asum.4960 said:

Not to say Shadow Shroud doesn't still need some work to feel less clunky, it definitely does, but just buffing it and Specter with it even further definitely isn't a good idea, unless they tune down the out of Shroud kit considerably along with that - but personally I don't really want another Reaper where you only feel like a real class while in Shroud and are just using filler skills while waiting for it's CD and fuel to come back so you can be a real boy again while out of it.

You're not really in danger of a "reaper situation" here as, unlike with the reaper shroud, the shroud here actually serves a different purpose than the base set which offers a lot more utility and support while SS according to the dev. stream is supposed to focus more on offensive.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Tails.9372

[Lucinellia.9247]

I didn't see a lot of people providing PvE specific support Specter feedback so I took a Celestial / Leadership / Concentration Sigil build to fractals with my casual static. The aim of these runs was to have the Specter provide alacrity, quickness, healing and barrier as well as other boons such as Fury and Vigor while one of our Firebrands covered stability and our Renegade covered Might. If you wish to see these runs, or nosy at logs, you can check out some videos here, here and here. There are further videos on the linked YouTube channel.  We did a full clear of CMs with Specter support. The group is relatively experienced with 3 fractal goddesses and members with 10k to 30k+ UFE.

 

There are a number of things that need to be looked into if support Specter is to be played at all in high end instanced PvE.

 

1. Guild Wars 2 is not designed for single target healing

This is one of the most glaring issues with playing PvE Specter support. Thief specs normally have a high degree of hindrance that is, arguably, not well justified given what they bring to groups. This has spanned everything from forced movement (condi Deadeye, condi Daredevil), restricted movement (rifle Deadeye) through to lacking crowd control and having single target DPS that is not competitive with other professions that can cleave (condi Deadeye, rifle Deadeye).

 

This example of thief being  limited for reasons that are not clear, or based wholly on a thematic objective, is very prominent with PvE Specter support and the push for allied targeting healing. Most glaringly, it results in a cumbersome and awkward playstyle, as much of the time is spent fighting the UI. There will need to be a high degree of iteration and improvement of the Guild Wars 2 UI if Specter remains single target in its support. There was a degree of this during the beta, where the "Target Next Ally" keybind was improved from previously only focusing NPCs to now including NPCs and players. This keybind needs to be further improved to target only players and also ignore players that are fully dead. This would remain cumbersome, but could allow for quick targeting with appropriate keybinds and good player awareness.

Additionally, raid frames should be allowed to be customised and, particularly, moved closer to the player character model to reduce mouse movement. It would be good if these could allow tracking of select boons, perhaps via corner indicators like with the WoW addons Grid and Vuhdo.

 

Furthermore, the allied targeting reduces the amount of information available to the Specter. For example, while targeting an ally for Measured Shot and Endless Night, it is not possible to see if an enemy has a break bar. This is a hindrance that will only impact Specter healers and support and will need to be resolved if single target healing is taken further as it feels like a limitation that has not been considered as it is not an issue for any other healer or support option.

2. Allied Endless Night needs to have player prioritisation

This is the main ability that support Specters will need to single target allies for and is one of the most crucial abilities to be fixed if support Specter is to see a degree of usage in instanced PvE because it allows for sharing of quickness. Endless Night currently suffers from the issue that made Fire for Effect in Deadeye useless in PvE for just over four years(!) before it was finally fixed. Endless Night is based on proximity prioritisation, which results in quickness, barrier, Rot Wallow Venom and regeneration being dumped onto targets where it is not useful such as minions, spirits and clones. Allied Endless Night should instead prioritise players. Quickness is essential for the support Specter, as it will not see prominent use unless it is possible to provide alacrity and quickness for 5 players. This is because existing alacrity sources are applied to 10 players (Renegade and Mirage) and therefore it is more beneficial to take one of these options if something is being brought solely for alacrity. 

3. Allied Endless Night requires a high degree of repositioning

This results in a strange gameplay style where the Specter is constantly moving around the group. There will be times where this is not possible, and therefore Endless Night being a wider beam would be useful, unless it is reworked to avoid single target healing.

 

4. Allied Siphon is not useful

Allied Siphon does not gain benefits from Thrill of the Crime. At the minimum, Thrill of the Crime should work with allied Siphon, ideally Bountiful Theft should also share vigor. Allied Siphon not sharing these boons leads to a cumbersome playstyle where a support Specter not only needs to change ally targets, but needs to target the enemy in order to apply enemy-targeted Siphon before retargeting an ally. This is an awkward gameplay loop and makes the single target healing aspects even more unwieldy. This should be iterated upon, ideally by improving Allied Siphon, if single target healing is pursued further. Allied Siphon gaining these effects could be worked into Shadestep as both Shadestep, which felt lacking as a PvE support trait.

5. Well of Tears is quite useless

Well of Tears is a power DPS ability which is present on a condition damage or healing / support spec. It does not serve any useful purpose and should probably be reconsidered and reworked. Specter does not offer a high degree of condition cleanse, needing to rely wholly on Signet of Agility. A straightforward solution would be to make Well of Tears a well focused on support by removing conditions, or converting conditions to boons.

6. There is no incentive to stay in Shadow Shroud

Remaining in Shadow Shroud has no advantages for the PvE Support Specter. Instead, it only serves a purpose to quickly regenerate initiative via Quick Pockets before it is left for a large degree of burst healing via Consume Shadows. Shadow Shroud should be made more appealing for support, for example by including five-ally boon share. An obvious target for this would be to change the Grandmaster trait Hungering Darkness to allow tethering to four nearby allies at random when Shroud is accessed. With this, Mind Shock would be useful as it would apply stability to five allies (including self). Similarly, Grasping Shadows would give a useful option for healing and condition removal.

 

7. Lack of self-quickness is frustrating

Endless Night should probably also apply quickness to the Specter. Having quickness only occasionally is relatively cumbersome for being aware of the speed of the Measured Shot / Endless Night loop.

 

8. Shadow Sap is pointless

There are no good reasons to use allied Shadow Sap. A way to improve this would be to improve the amount of Might granted (perhaps up to 8), and allow it to splash to multiple allies near to the targeted ally. This would mean that Shadow Sap and Measured Shot / Endless Night could be switched between to upkeep either Might or Quickness, giving a choice of what initiative is spent on, instead of Endless Night being the only reasonable choice for initiative when supporting.

9. Tethering to a target is not impactful due to the design of the GW2 PvE content.

Tethering lacks impact because Guild Wars 2, and the PvE encounters, have never been designed around single target healing.

 

No existing PvE content in GW2 has required a high degree of single target healing that could not have been brought by the existing AoE healers, otherwise it would not have been completed! The idea of tethering and babysitting an ally, such as a tank, does not have an established place in GW2, unlike WoW or FFXIV, and therefore the usefulness of Specter for PvE groups will be judged on the ability of the Specter to AoE heal and provide AoE boons, particularly quickness and alacrity. Thankfully, Specter has good AoE healing currently (and needs improvements in the area of boons), but this minimises the impactfulness of tethering. Please do not take this as an indication that tethering should be made more impactful in PvE - quite the opposite. I do not feel it is a good mechanic for Specter PvE healing. I am sure it has a place in sPvP, but PvE support Specter needs to remain such that tethering can be broadly ignored if it remains single ally focused.

 

Tethering could be more impactful without adding further unwieldiness, if it was possible to tether multiple allies, perhaps via a Grandmaster trait (Hungering Darkness may be a good choice here, it has no use in instanced PvE). Even if this was limited to being in Shroud and applied randomly, that could then be paired with more boon share and condition removal in Shroud in order to encourage Support Specters to use Shroud beyond Quick Pockets and Consume Shadows.
 

In general, I feel that Specter most pressingly needs better targeting and a fix to Endless Night. These two alone will make Support Specter playable, but incredibly cumbersome. Single target healing needs rethought, or the UI massively improved, if it is to be made as fluid to play as any other profession in Guild Wars 2.

Awkward bugs:

Many sources of Specter healing, such as Consume Shadows and Measured Shot, apply healing to a downed target, which does not seem intended. 

Measured Shot can send the Specter to the moon, if it is used just outside of an ally's hitbox. This does not seem intended.

General tuning:
 

If the prioritisation is not fixed on allied Endless Night, it needs to give even more quickness! Please don't actually do this, please instead improve the prioritisation of allied Endless Night on allies.

Healing feels slightly too high currently.

 

Barrier feels slightly too high currently.

 

These should probably be reduced a little.

Support Specter could be a lot of fun, but the single target aspects, limitations with boon sharing, the  clunkiness of the GW2 UI and prioritisation issues with allied Endless Night severely limit it currently.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Lucinellia.9247

[Kuya.6495]

So what i liked:

1. I think you hit the theme out of the park with this one. The name, animations and effects fit the theme you were going for. 

2. Single target healing isn't revolutionary for most other mmorpgs but for in gw2 it is different and unique so I like that. 

3. You managed to make scepter on thf fun to use and that surprised me. I also liked the mechanic of sacrificing shroud for support. 

 

What problems I could see:

1. Scepter: The shadowstep on scepter 3 for the beam seems a bit clunky? Sometimes you want to support a teammate but you don't want to port to them. Why not just change the skill so the first button is the channel and the switch over skill cancels the tether/beam and actually does the port? It gives you more control over when you should port or not.

 

2. Alacrity: it's able to give 5 people alacrity well enough but with mirage and renegade giving 10 man alacrity, spectre seems like a poor replacement for that specific role. Spectre is better off than mechanist as at least it has an easier time doing damage, giving barrier, healing and even giving quickness to 3 people. Still though if what you want is alacrity for 10 people, then spectre isn't it. I also don't like that even with lots of concentration, it feels like you need to take at least 3 wells to keep a semblance of stability on upkeep of alacrity.

 

3. Siphon felt not very interesting to use on enemies. In pve, siphon on allies was great though. It lets you insta rez an ally at range but on enemies it feels like it's not as interesting. 

 

Suggestions:

1. Change scepter 3 so endless night fires first without the shadowstep and make the flip over skill measured shot instead. Seems underwhelming since what you really want is  endless night but that's the point. 

 

2. As for the alacrity target cap. I dunno, raise it to 10 people instead? Unless you plan to reduce alacrity to 5 target cap on mirage and renegade too. Also, could you spread the alacrity around a bit on the spec? Perhaps put some in shadowshroud or in one of the scepter skills? It might help with actually letting you save some wells for when you really need them rather than spamming them all for alacrity.

 

3. Maybe make the trait that makes siphon give more shadowshroud from enemies have additional effects? Maybe alacrity around allies near you? Something to make it something a little more interesting.

 

That's it! Thank you so much for creating this spec! It was really fun to play and the theorycrafting around using it has been really entertaining. I really hope you use specter and mechanist as good examples for how you can make the other elites more interesting .

Edited November 4, 2021 by Kuya.6495