I think our main priority should be growing the PvP playerbase

[Bazsi.2734]

19 hours ago, xKole.9175 said:

How do we get PvE players to come try out PvP? How can we attract new GW2 players to check it out?

 

Between learning Conquest, strategy, class roles, and our notorious toxicity, no one wants to give it shot.

 

I think permanent 1v1 and 2v2 modes would help that. Easier to play with one other friend, or solo (people don't have to worry about throwing a game and getting flamed). Maybe no ranked for these modes or lesser ranked rewards than Conquest, idk. Tournaments would be fun too.

 

I just don't think Anet will ever do much of anything with PvP unless our playerbase was more respectable, and I think having more approachable PvP would help our community a lot.

I don't like the use of "we" here. I feel like it lumps the developers and the PvP "community" togheter. The devs killed the gamemode with purposeful neglect over the years, and nothing players can do can change anything at this point. Some are trying, it mostly manifests into calls to stop being mean and stuff like that... but it's all meaningless.
New players do not approach a gamemode just because "people aren't mean here". The gamemode needs to have some draw on its own, and the community aspect is maybe considered after. 
 

The first step has to be A-net investing in PvP. Showing off what the players get with EoD launch, so that every player is reminded that the gamemode exists. And this is the problem... there is nothing to show off. Until this changes, we can flail around and tone police each other all we want, it will amount to nothing. 

[Beast Sos.1457]

1 hour ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

I have but the thing I don't expect everyone to be respectful to me because I'm aware that the world is full of assholes. Instead of crying everytime I encounter one of those assholes, I ve learnt to deal with them. It's called being pragmatic.

I agree with a lot of what you said but a few things. I don't think competition is toxic and I don't think humans are toxic by nature. Toxicity or the lack there of is nurtured into someone. Just like some people are emotionally unstable while others aren't. That isn't their nature, its a cause of their upbringing. You live in a toxic household/environment, you will most likely become a toxic person. Likewise with a positive household/environment. 

 

Even IQ itself is nurtured to a certain extent. Of course you can't obtain genius lvl IQ without nature but you can increase a child's IQ drastically based on the way you raise them. Nurture plays a huge part in the way a person grows to be. 

[Curennos.9307]

People saying other folks should look at themselves first before they complain about pollution because they use a car hasn't done the bare minimum of googling to be able to talk. You can easily find info on how the US ended up a car driving nation, how roads got everywhere, the death of walkable communities. Heck we even have graphs depicting the main world polluters. The myth of immense personal responsibility and being unable to criticize something unless you, yourself, are the pinnacle of morality has got to die. Imagine watching anet do everything they have (or haven't, lmao, in most cased they've done jack) to pvp and then jumping on a player for pointing out issues.

 

Anyway. I think the first thing I'd ask from anet would be to clean up class designs - there are far too many dead traits, dead traitlines, classes that are pigeonholed into taking certain traitlines (thieves and trickery, warrior and discipline to an extent, etc). A healthy meta needs to be supported by options that, while they may not be top tier, can feasibly function in middle-of-the-pack games. While this may not be the 'best' first step, per se, I think anet needs time to build up some good will before making bigger changes.

 

This will also tie into step 2, or 1a somewhat, of giving players a quality UI, half decent death recaps, better animations that follow some sort of overarching rules ('hard hitting/high impact or high value skills have bigger animations, telegraphs, etc). Things are never going to be perfectly balanced. WoW has WoW's budget and still fails horribly and often. However, what the game does well if let players actually see the information they want to see. GW2 pvp players shouldn't have to squint to see how many stacks of a condition are on them, which condi is on them, or sift through the ridiculously small, badly sorted boon icons on an enemy just to see what's going on there. I don't care if my opponent has swiftness, fury, regen, etc...I should have options to sort this information, change icon size, etc.

 

Imo, the biggest barrier to entry is that GW2 has a small selection of builds that work, a slightly larger selection of builds that kind of work because they're derivative of the builds that work, and then everything else is just unused + the earlier paragraph. New player joins. Gets hit by spinal shivers, dies. "What happened?" They go to the death recap and they see a low animation skill ripping a bunch of boons and hitting for huge damage. The death recap is worthless beyond that point, they have to google or make another character to see the skill, etc.

 

GW2 has one of the lowest barriers to entry in certain parts of pvp - gear grind was a huge reason in why I never stuck around in WoW, but in GW2 you can just hop in and you have precisely evened out stats versus other players, no need to worry about having to do pve to get some obscure trinket item. But everything else - the actual combat, being able to discern what's going on, finding the information needed to play the game is very high in comparison. That isn't to say things should be dumbed down, and that having to learn what things look like across the classes you're fighting shouldn't be a thing - rather, when a new player dies to a skill, they should be able to, without much effort, be able to say "What happened? Oh, I missed that big flashy thing and it bonked me, haha I'll do better next time!" And go another round. Where as right now it's... "WHat happened? Oh. I got...chunked by something that has almost zero animation and I had to crawl through several wiki pages before I could find out what it was. This is stupid" -> and we've lost a player.  My 2c, at least.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Everyone I know who I either get to try PvP, or decided to try it on their own for a PvP legendary/title/etc usually quits for these 3 reasons, listed here in order of severity(as I see it.)

1)  Current Meta - I've heard post 2/25/2020 PvP described as an alpha test for an attempt at revamping PvP.  Only 2 years later, that alpha test never ended. Either way; to a new player, getting 0-3 kills in a 10-15 minute match immediately puts them off. New players also tend to hate  fighting bunkery builds, or anything they have trouble actually hitting and doing any damage to. And what's the meta full of right now? 

2)  Matchmaking, because they never feel like they've been given a fair match, especially starting out. They'll get confident after DuoQing and then go try their luck on their own as a SoloQ, and then they are understandably never seen again. 

3) Toxicity, and i'm not talking about all the colorful things people say in the PvP lobby mapchat. I'm talking about the people in games who will throw or AFK at the slightest provocation or point difference. The only way to really fix this would be for Arenanet to crackdown on it. You can report someone for being an idle player, but often you'll just see the same people over and over in future games. 

Mind you, there's a lot more to keep PvP players in a state of abject rage & frustration, but in my experience these are the most common and detested aspects of the Gw2 PvP experience

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

20 hours ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

Competition is by definition toxic

Hard disagree. Competition has a number of healthy effects between toddler phase and adulthood. Anything can be toxic, taken too far and out of its original context. 

Human existence has always been about competition; the modern attempts to eliminate it from the curriculum and social structure systems can be, and are, extremely harmful long-term.

[kharmin.7683]

23 hours ago, xKole.9175 said:

How do we get PvE players to come try out PvP?

 

 

I play GW2 for the PvE.  I have no interest or desire to play any PvP.  I can't think of any incentive to get me to engage with it.  /shrug

[FarmBotXD.1430]

12 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I play GW2 for the PvE.  I have no interest or desire to play any PvP.  I can't think of any incentive to get me to engage with it.  /shrug

legendary amulet is cool, oh wait 

[Tescao.3042]

11 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

You are correct, toxicity would be the expression of one’s negative emotions.

Would you agree that the increased prevalence of negative emotion is going to increase the number of people manifesting them in a toxic/destructive manner? 
Would you agree that behavioral learning from others expressing their negative emotions in a destructive manner would encourage more people feeling similar emotions to express them in a similar way due to the observed behavior?

The best way to express this is the idea that “laughter is infectious”. Laughter, I hope you would agree, is not an emotion, but a reaction to ones emotions. The expression of happiness/amusement in a behavioral manner (laughing) is communicated across a group of people in conjunction with the underlying emotional stimulus. Study (granted I haven’t read this specific study, just searched livescience. I’m on mobile and typing on my lunch break 😛) https://www.livescience.com/9430-study-laughter-contagious.html

Another example; if someone smiles at you passing in the street, you smile back. You are introduced to a slightly positive stimuli and mirror the behavioral expression of said stimuli. Conversely, if someone flips you off, you may feel a little angry, and respond with the learned behavioral pattern; flipping them off. This applies to honking in a car, shouting at someone during an argument, people dancing at a party, etc. 

Other than your disagreement that emotions/expression of emotions is not spread, we agree on the underlying statements of your philosophical argument, or at least what I’m understanding it as, which is; don’t blame others for things which you have the capability of doing something about yourself. 

Anywho, we’ve gotten away from the point of the topic; analyzing why the pvp community is small and probably shrinking. As others have said, I agree that matchmaking, balance, etc. are big problems. The hard part is that this is most likely exacerbated by the low population, which makes it worse for the remaining people.

It’s almost as if PVP is in a sort of death spiral, where it’s problems are the cause of its problems. Fixing it is not readily apparent to me, which is why I brought up community. I think that’s something that we, the players, have the ability to change just by being nice 🙂 

Yes, this is a very cool study. I can only add one point to this. If you go around with a little smile, whether you're smiling at someone or at yourself, those facial expressions will send impulses to your brain to release more serotonin. Also, your body will have great recovery opportunities, etc. Therefore, you should always walk with a smile, regardless of someone else's opinion, so you improve your health.

P. S. The brain is a computer that can be controlled, it is bad when it controls us.

[Nightcore.5621]

As long thiefs remain a meme this game havin perma stealth than i don't care. 

[Aylpse.6280]

On 2/5/2022 at 9:30 PM, kharmin.7683 said:

I play GW2 for the PvE.  I have no interest or desire to play any PvP.  I can't think of any incentive to get me to engage with it.  /shrug

The main draw is you can punch people in the face. Haven't you ever wanted to smack your friends?

[Nilkemia.8507]

On 2/4/2022 at 8:55 PM, xKole.9175 said:

How do we get PvE players to come try out PvP? How can we attract new GW2 players to check it out?

 

Between learning Conquest, strategy, class roles, and our notorious toxicity, no one wants to give it shot.

 

I think permanent 1v1 and 2v2 modes would help that. Easier to play with one other friend, or solo (people don't have to worry about throwing a game and getting flamed). Maybe no ranked for these modes or lesser ranked rewards than Conquest, idk. Tournaments would be fun too.

 

I just don't think Anet will ever do much of anything with PvP unless our playerbase was more respectable, and I think having more approachable PvP would help our community a lot.

 

Answer : You don't. The only thing that would attract PvE players in particular is the rewards/reward tracks. And if they stick around too long, they'll find out that those aren't worth it either. It's inherently toxic and brings out the worst in all that enter. Better to just let it rot.

[Shao.7236]

PvE in GW2 already has a very casual aspect to it, trying to get players knowing their profession in and out is already a lot to ask. The game is complex but inherently not impossible to understand if people take their time, problem is in PvP a lot of players like to flex their ability to play carbon copy builds of each other which breaks the incentive of having something unique going on for yourself which is an actual selling point of the game too.

 

There is arguably a lot of things that people can play right now, problem being nobody cares to get better at it when you can get carried by the next fotm. Being good at something hard is not rewarding for them. It's not like me when I went on and about with PvP, all I really got left is to enjoy the game for what it is, which I do really, play what I want, get good at what I want. That state of mind is something you have to go through before you can really enjoy this mode where too many players care about flexing rather than having fun in different ways.

 

This reminds me of when Summit tried to get into GW2, most ""top"" PvP players wanted to assert their existence and instead of being friendly and useful, they just flexed on him as extreme try hards which quite literally in a direct way discouraged him from even caring for PvP at all when he couldn't even start getting into the learning curve to begin with, then PvE quickly detracted into nothingness from it because Summit himself do prefer PvP gamemodes in general regardless.

 

Finally you have Anet which is really slow at fixing things right now, could finally releasing the expansion fix that too? Maybe, my hopes aren't that high though.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Shao.7236

[Sahne.6950]

Yesterday i made a experiment:

instead of working i was sick at home because i was not feeling too well. (im better now, thanks :D)

i thought: hey why not jump in pvp, get a rank and pretend to be a new player to see what the experience would be like. Because i read alot of posts lately of pvp being extra toxic atm (i am not kidding that is exactly what i did^^ i ended in g3, just 40 points short of platinum after 12 games.

I said in the beginning of every game that i am new to the gamemode and that at times i am unsure about the macro plays because i tend to tunnelvision in fights(which i dont), so if they see me doing something stupid they should just ping me or tell me in chat and i will listen and adapt.

I said that i can read chat and that i am willing to learn.

 

For my socialexperiment i played conditeef -> pissEZ to play, can turn around a fight/game very EZ, and people on lower elos just dont know how to cleanse i guess... so i thought this will be perfect for carrying those games.

I consider myself a pretty good player, i spend all of my day duelling for money in armistice or roaming in WvW and i think i can play my 5 builds/professions almost to perfection. Also i know how to rotate around and i know my role. So it 100% was not me being bad (all the games were on average 16+ kills (even had 24 on one) and 0 to 1 deaths (this one game i had 68% of the team damage... as Teef...(you guessed it, i still get shouted at in this one) and i had the majority of the MVP titles all the time. For real without wanting to say i am the best of the best... it was not the Elo i was supposed to be in and it was obvious..... i was able to hold far 2v1(not my role i know) in some of these games... it was rly hilarious) I was decapping things left and right, juking those people on levels that they couldnt even imagine; Shadowportals,Stealth; keeping 3 people on their close yet they are not able to hold it because as soon as they step one foot out i decap it again;  the whole package......

BUT PEOPLE WERE STILL SHOUTING AT ME!xDD  I had someone being mad on almost every game... it was not all of them... the ones without a flamer on my team was the ones the enemys had a afk, because they lost 2 teamfights and then gave up.... we won 11 out of those 12 games and i still had a very bad experience. I told people that i am new and if i do something wrong i kindly asked them to tell me, instead of shouting at me, so that i could become better. Overall i played WAY better then i initially made them think i would do... AND THEY WERE STILL MAD. They were blaming everything that went wrong on me, regardless of the reality. They thought: oh we are loosing!!(which in reality we were not) it must be this dumbo that is queuing ranked Arena altho he doesnt even know the macroplays of teef. We even won a 4v5 because some smarthead refused to play after the first teamfight... the fact that we won even without him shows how stupid people can be at times... they get frustrated and just throw the towel/start to flame and blame.

what does this show: Even when you play with opencards and tell people that you are new and want to improve, they cant keep their temper and start the blamegame. Just imagine it being a new player, that is making actual big mistakes... HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE. Because in reality YOU CANT DO IT RIGHT. Even if you "Overperform" they will still put a finger on you and blame you for things that they did wrong. (i remember that one time where a guy died 3v1 on our close; he shouted that i should come and help him, when in reality it would still be a 3v2 and we were likely to loose. Instead i decapped their far and helped mid which lead to us taking both of those points. I am 100% sure that was the right move on my part but this dude was salty because " fkn noob teef doesnt help" when in reality he made the mistake of even attempting this 3v1.

 

How can you expect any PvE player to jump into this gamemode and Tank thru all this negativity... Because in reality they wont be as good as my nerdy self, that is playing player versus player modes (WvW) all day long. I started at the same point anyone that has barely touched PvP will.... And i played like a younggod on steroids... (i was tryharding SOOO MUCH 😄) Yet i get the hatetreatment.....it was a REALLY REALLY REAAAAALLY bad experience.... 

 

We might need "Beginner-servers". Alot of other games have a similar concept like this. For example ESO and almost any Shooter with Skillbasedmatchmaking has it. The first 5-10 wins you play in a protected bracket. You will ONLY meet people that are in the protected bracket aswell -> aka. they are just starting out aswell. If you cant win in this bracket either you wont move up to the real people until you win 5-10 times -> some time to learn. They will atleast have 5-10 games that are mildly enjoyable. But when you are thrown into this pool of tryhards and toxicity as your first experience of PvP.... THEY WILL BE OUT AGAIN. 

 

Idk what this post is supposed to achieve. I just wanted to share the experience i had yesterday.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

On 2/5/2022 at 11:26 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

New players do not approach a gamemode just because "people aren't mean here". The gamemode needs to have some draw on its own, and the community aspect is maybe considered after.

i disagree!  We have SOOOO MANY players in Wvw that are here because they cant stand the toxicity in PvP. Those are people that have more interest in pvp content then in pve content, but they cant stand the community in spvp. Most of them like the gamemechanics of pvp more then in wvw (roundbased games - even numbers- skillbased matchmaking) But the community is what made them leave pvp and join the wvw community, because WvW is no where near as toxic as pvp is. So there goes your point. People are joining wvw because people are not mean there. Alot of people would be in pvp still but toxicity made them leave.

[kharmin.7683]

7 hours ago, Aylpse.6280 said:

The main draw is you can punch people in the face. Haven't you ever wanted to smack your friends?

No, not at all.  😉

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

at this point, after my 57? ish ranks, i already gave up on the gamemode. i think the only way i would enjoy it was with 9 bots plus me, so it would always be 5v5. with the caveat that i could choose difficulty settings to actually make it fair for me. kinda like Perfect Dark (N64) and it's PvP mode with bots.

[Crab Fear.1624]

On 2/5/2022 at 9:30 PM, kharmin.7683 said:

I play GW2 for the PvE.  I have no interest or desire to play any PvP.  I can't think of any incentive to get me to engage with it.  /shrug

And still in pvp forums giving some. ...input...I guess....good to know that....I reckon.....

[Bazsi.2734]

53 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i disagree!  We have SOOOO MANY players in Wvw that are here because they cant stand the toxicity in PvP. Those are people that have more interest in pvp content then in pve content, but they cant stand the community in spvp. Most of them like the gamemechanics of pvp more then in wvw (roundbased games - even numbers- skillbased matchmaking) But the community is what made them leave pvp and join the wvw community, because WvW is no where near as toxic as pvp is. So there goes your point. People are joining wvw because people are not mean there. Alot of people would be in pvp still but toxicity made them leave.

I hate playing WvW, it's boring without enough players, I hardly ever see open squads, the thing is mostly empty, and farming out the next Gift of Battle is a tedious grind. And funnily enough, my blocklist gets longer in every session, as for some reason not insulting and harrassing an enemy you encountered while roaming is a foreign concept for so many. 

Based on my experience, ranking which gamemode is the most toxic would be almost impossible. My raiding guild spiraled into insane elitism so bad we fell apart and most quit. Just told you about what it looks like for me to WvW. In PvP the worst matches are in unranked where people are supposed to be chill, but for some reason some aren't and expect the rest to tryhard with metabuilds aswell.

Over the last decade I had good and bad experiences with players in all 3 main gamemodes, and those experiences do not factor into what I play. You can join one of the many PvP guilds, and have a supportive community if you want to. If you truly want to play PvP, but instead babysit a camp in WvW becase some FFA bob was mean to you, your loss. In fact it sounds so dumb that I'm pretty sure most people who say they aren't playing PvP because of meanies are just memeing.

[Kuya.6495]

12 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Yesterday i made a experiment:

instead of working i was sick at home because i was not feeling too well. (im better now, thanks :D)

i thought: hey why not jump in pvp, get a rank and pretend to be a new player to see what the experience would be like. Because i read alot of posts lately of pvp being extra toxic atm (i am not kidding that is exactly what i did^^ i ended in g3, just 40 points short of platinum after 12 games.

I said in the beginning of every game that i am new to the gamemode and that at times i am unsure about the macro plays because i tend to tunnelvision in fights(which i dont), so if they see me doing something stupid they should just ping me or tell me in chat and i will listen and adapt.

I said that i can read chat and that i am willing to learn.

 

For my socialexperiment i played conditeef -> pissEZ to play, can turn around a fight/game very EZ, and people on lower elos just dont know how to cleanse i guess... so i thought this will be perfect for carrying those games.

I consider myself a pretty good player, i spend all of my day duelling for money in armistice or roaming in WvW and i think i can play my 5 builds/professions almost to perfection. Also i know how to rotate around and i know my role. So it 100% was not me being bad (all the games were on average 16+ kills (even had 24 on one) and 0 to 1 deaths (this one game i had 68% of the team damage... as Teef...(you guessed it, i still get shouted at in this one) and i had the majority of the MVP titles all the time. For real without wanting to say i am the best of the best... it was not the Elo i was supposed to be in and it was obvious..... i was able to hold far 2v1(not my role i know) in some of these games... it was rly hilarious) I was decapping things left and right, juking those people on levels that they couldnt even imagine; Shadowportals,Stealth; keeping 3 people on their close yet they are not able to hold it because as soon as they step one foot out i decap it again;  the whole package......

BUT PEOPLE WERE STILL SHOUTING AT ME!xDD  I had someone being mad on almost every game... it was not all of them... the ones without a flamer on my team was the ones the enemys had a afk, because they lost 2 teamfights and then gave up.... we won 11 out of those 12 games and i still had a very bad experience. I told people that i am new and if i do something wrong i kindly asked them to tell me, instead of shouting at me, so that i could become better. Overall i played WAY better then i initially made them think i would do... AND THEY WERE STILL MAD. They were blaming everything that went wrong on me, regardless of the reality. They thought: oh we are loosing!!(which in reality we were not) it must be this dumbo that is queuing ranked Arena altho he doesnt even know the macroplays of teef. We even won a 4v5 because some smarthead refused to play after the first teamfight... the fact that we won even without him shows how stupid people can be at times... they get frustrated and just throw the towel/start to flame and blame.

what does this show: Even when you play with opencards and tell people that you are new and want to improve, they cant keep their temper and start the blamegame. Just imagine it being a new player, that is making actual big mistakes... HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE. Because in reality YOU CANT DO IT RIGHT. Even if you "Overperform" they will still put a finger on you and blame you for things that they did wrong. (i remember that one time where a guy died 3v1 on our close; he shouted that i should come and help him, when in reality it would still be a 3v2 and we were likely to loose. Instead i decapped their far and helped mid which lead to us taking both of those points. I am 100% sure that was the right move on my part but this dude was salty because " fkn noob teef doesnt help" when in reality he made the mistake of even attempting this 3v1.

 

How can you expect any PvE player to jump into this gamemode and Tank thru all this negativity... Because in reality they wont be as good as my nerdy self, that is playing player versus player modes (WvW) all day long. I started at the same point anyone that has barely touched PvP will.... And i played like a younggod on steroids... (i was tryharding SOOO MUCH 😄) Yet i get the hatetreatment.....it was a REALLY REALLY REAAAAALLY bad experience.... 

 

We might need "Beginner-servers". Alot of other games have a similar concept like this. For example ESO and almost any Shooter with Skillbasedmatchmaking has it. The first 5-10 wins you play in a protected bracket. You will ONLY meet people that are in the protected bracket aswell -> aka. they are just starting out aswell. If you cant win in this bracket either you wont move up to the real people until you win 5-10 times -> some time to learn. They will atleast have 5-10 games that are mildly enjoyable. But when you are thrown into this pool of tryhards and toxicity as your first experience of PvP.... THEY WILL BE OUT AGAIN. 

 

Idk what this post is supposed to achieve. I just wanted to share the experience i had yesterday.

I hope no one debates this post because we literally saw streams of people accusing sindrener of being the worst thf ever because they lost the game. 

 

And let's be clear. This behavior is human nature. When you can't control a situation, some people lash out at whatever their brain picks at first. The only way to solve this? Stricter enforcement of rules over verbal abuse and throwing.  The moment you send a toxic message in teamchat or afk at spawn you should get at least a 6 hour ban within the same day with repeat offenses seeing your account permabanned. 

[Crab Fear.1624]

We should actually try and actively shrink it.

[Ovark.2514]

On 2/4/2022 at 11:16 PM, oscuro.9720 said:

Well I’d venture to guess that one of the main reasons people don’t take to pvp is that the community is incredibly toxic.
 

When the game rewards a behavior, players will exhibit the behavior. This applies to every type of game. In the case of GW2, all the rewards are in the Ranked game mode, and more rewards are gained for being higher in rank. This means that almost EVERYONE plays ranked, even though many of them probably would prefer a more casual pvp mode where winning isn't that important. The Daily Competitionist also necessitates a ranked victory if all you do is sPvP and don't have time for tournaments. Also, the ranked ladder limits queuing to 2-man so you have little control of your teammates. Also, losing a match results in more lost ranking than most victories would grant. Also there  is no afk detection so games are lost for no good reason, wasting peoples time and skewing the ranking. The result of all of this is that casual players are paired with tryhards in ranked and they lose. Casuals are upset because they don't get to have to 2g and potentially other rewards for being higher ranked while they tryhards are upset because they lost ranking and gold. People stop playing sPvP so the population diminishes and matches become even more unbalanced. This is why sPvP has gained a reputation since HoT for being toxic. It's not that players suddenly got hateful. It's a perfect storm of game updates funneling players into game modes where results are all that matter while simultaneously removing the capacity of players to control those results. (lack of balance doesn't help either)

 

edit: Typo

Edited February 9, 2022 by Ovark.2514

[Sahne.6950]

16 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

I hate playing WvW, it's boring without enough players, I hardly ever see open squads, the thing is mostly empty, and farming out the next Gift of Battle is a tedious grind.

im sorry for you being stuck in some tier 4 server....   TOTALLY diffrent experience here D: we are T1 tho....

[Sahne.6950]

10 hours ago, Kuya.6495 said:

I hope no one debates this post because we literally saw streams of people accusing sindrener of being the worst thf ever because they lost the game. 

I didnt want a debate... it was just a report of what i experienced with my little experiment.

My Thesis was: ALOT of people in Gw2 just straight up LOVE to teach new players about the game. Just ask for help in a major city and your /w will EXPLODE. I wanted to see if it is the same in sPvP. So i decided to act like a noob. I wanted to know if people would be more understanding of my possible mistakes and try to help me get better, maybe even tell me that i am playing good and that i should continue playing pvp,  or if they would stick to the stereotypical behaviours that we know from some parts of the pvp community. And the outcome was shocking...   JUST 1 GUY /w  me and explained some things to me. I duoQed with him and pulled him all the way to Plat in the following 10 games.... after a few games he noticed what i was doing from how i was playing. But the majority of people did the complete opposite of what i expected to happen. I thought people would understand that i am new and dont be so rough with me. BUT THE EXACT OPPOSITE HAPPENED. they blamed EVERYTHING on me, no matter if something was my fault or not.

 

coming back to your post....

 

Known Streamer <-> Someone that is supposedly new to the gamemode.... 

 

Difference. Totally diffrent concept but you are not wrong. people blame everyone and especially the teefs 😄 we need working chatrules/reports and afkban-systems ASAP

Edited February 9, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

13 hours ago, Kuya.6495 said:

This behavior is human nature. When you can't control a situation, some people lash out at whatever their brain picks at first.

thats not human nature :0 that is a specific coping mechanism some special individuals show.... its the kind of behaviour that gets you in trouble.....  We have rules in the realworld to stop people from just lashing at others.... but we are missing these in sPvP... that is the root of alot of the evil.

just imagine a buffett.... The pizza on the buffett is empty.... the person that didnt get a piece is now straight up insulting all the other people infront of him in the line, altho they dont even have a piece of pizza themselves, because those people are the first things/people their brain notices..... HUMAN NATURE. that is not human nature.... PLEASE for one second imagine a world where this kind of behaviour is the norm.... You are right some people have this coping mechanism, i learned about it alot (i work with with disbaled people and people with agression problems),but it is FAAAR from being normal, it is a behaviour worth a punishment. having a attitude towards the cause of the problem is normal. Being frustrated and wanting to change a situation is normal. But straight up insulting people that are not the cause of it or dont have any kind of control over it, just because they are there at the time... is not normal or any form of human nature.

It is called loosing your temper!

calling someone a son of a *Beeeep* because you died in a videogame while the other person literally had no influence on your death.... thats not human nature. I can imagine that some of those people are like this because they received the same attitude in the same environment themselves. i feel like that alot of people show this behaviour because they expect to receive or have received the same treatment when they did someting wrong. AND NOW IT IS THEIR TURN TO FLAME (altho in reality you did nothing wrong, but they were busy fighting themselves and dont really assess what is happening around them and just start the blamegame when they get frustrated). mostly children and younger, more insecure individuals fall victim to this. They adapt the assumingly perceived (toxic)environment and act accordingly. More matured people wont let a environment in a videogame interfere with their personality, but especially younger or more insecure ones feel like this is "normal" or "necessary" to sustain in this environment. They adapt. Not saying it is only children that flame, but most of the younger generation will find themselves typing in the chat over little mistakes of their teammates rather fast. Because they have received the same treatment. And they feel like it is "normal or even necessary" here. This mixed with the fact that you have to rely on your teammates to receive your precious imaginary Ranking points is a recipe for disaster.

What enforces this is that there is literally no punishment for doing it, so no one gets a feeling of : " OH THAT WAS WRONG"! at best they have a second teammate that also says that this teef is a noob -> a cycle of approval when opening your mouth in a negative way about someone that is not as good as themselves.  I am not saying that it is not the fault of every specific player. Every player could say to themselves: "NO i am not gonna be that guy"! I am gonna break out of this cycle of negativity, but its is really hard to do so.

"Every person is the product of its environment"

Edit:Quote: "I have but the thing I don't expect everyone to be respectful to me because I'm aware that the world is full of assholes. Instead of crying everytime I encounter one of those assholes, I ve learnt to deal with them. It's called being pragmatic." 

 Phrases like this show it to perfection! he is going into the whole thing with the expectation : ALOT OF ASSHOLES BUT I WILL DEAL WITH THEM! And he is completly right! that is the right thing to do! have a expectation and be ready for it... BUT THAT IS WHERE THE PROBLEM STARTS.

how do you deal with them? if it is anything other than ignoring you are just pouring oil in the flame. He starts this interaction with the mindset that he is facing a Ahole and that he has to "deal with him" to save his sanity. That is where the cycle starts. he is Expecting to get flamed at! If you go into a situation with that mindset the outcome will always be the same. MORE NEGATIVITY.  Even if the other person didnt mean the thing he said in a very negative way he will most likely perceive it that way, because time and experience taught him so.

Sadly stricter rules wont help that much here... but they would be a step in the right direction! as a example LoL: Very strict rules! just a single report of you saying anything bad can lead to a 24 hour chatban. YET it is one of, if not THE most toxic game around...  Fundamental things have to change. I am not sure what those are tho. I think it spiraled out of controll a long time ago thanks to no punishments in chatbehaviour. At one point this toxicity grew and nothing (chatbans) was done to stop it. now it has grown and it is hard to break out of this cycle. The factors that lead to this toxicity are a diffrent topic. (dailys that force pve people in RANKED games instead of normal ones and so on...)

Edited February 9, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[ArcanistSeven.8720]

cant grow whats already dead