AliamRationem.5172 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Just now, Teratus.2859 said: Haha that's also my view on it too. We went to her house. She told us to leave, we didn't. We broke further and further into her house against her will. Her security systems tried to kill us as a result XD Suffice to say I fully believe in the right to defend your home against trespassers so Joon did nothing wrong here. How dare you bring this "stand your ground" politics into this forum! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said: Haha that's also my view on it too. We went to her house. She told us to leave, we didn't. We broke further and further into her house against her will. Her security systems tried to kill us as a result XD Suffice to say I fully believe in the right to defend your home against trespassers so Joon did nothing wrong here. That's not 100% accurate, though. We did not break in, Taimi let us in, and we weren't even aware that we had not been invited until we faced Joon. But most importantly, she acknowledged our innocence and basically said sorry, then went ahead and tried to get us killed again over her life's work, not because we had trespassed. That's a bit maniac, wouldn't you say? Edited March 13, 2022 by Ashantara.8731 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramex.1506 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 How did you miss the fact that she was able to turn Kaineng into what it is today, only for a couple of strangers to come in and ruin it? Granted, the world ending was inevitable but when you have the skills you would believe that you can stop it. When Anhka broke in the reactor and blow it up, she wasnt physically there to get the full picture so she thought that we were conspired with the Aetherblade, then we came to her house UNINVITED, so any person would defense themself in that situation Only when we presented the proof did she agree to talk, but she was unable to accept that everything is going to end, that Kaineng won't be running on Jade tech anymore. Taimi has to convince her to accept the truth. This is as cliche and easy to comprehend as it come yet you find it inconceivable! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripLight.7692 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Joon was pretty realistic for a dedicated scientist who's life's work significantly bettered the peoples lives. She was actually a bit refreshing. Now Taimi on the other hand, I wanted to ding her about the ear when the Commander expresses shock at not knowing Joon had a kid. Wasn't this same Kid drowning in Dragon Research for the last 5 years and claims the Commander doesn't get out(couldn't even give us leeway for shipping/headcannons)? Gorrik's got his hands full with that one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramex.1506 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said: That's not 100% accurate, though. We did not break in, Taimi let us in, and we weren't even aware that we had not been invited until we faced Joon. But most importantly, she acknowledged our innocence and basically said sorry, then went ahead and tried to get us killed again over her life's work, not because we had trespassed. That's a bit maniac, wouldn't you say? She was afraid of the future, how will Kaineng survive without Soo Won to power the Jade tech? Sure, she overreacted because of her ego and being looked down, but you seem to ignore reasons leading up to that fight If you don't like her thats fine, but don't left out details. Edited March 13, 2022 by Ultramex.1506 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatihso.7258 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) I was enjoying her presence and arc but when I noticed Joon is actually Taimi 2.0, it was over! Joon has got a nice voice acting btw, so there is that. Edited March 13, 2022 by fatihso.7258 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said: That's not 100% accurate, though. We did not break in, Taimi let us in, and we weren't even aware that we had not been invited until we faced Joon. But most importantly, she acknowledged our innocence and basically said sorry, then went ahead and tried to get us killed again over her life's work, not because we had trespassed. That's a bit maniac, wouldn't you say? She told us we were not invited nor welcome right at the front door more or less. We were the ones that persisted to break into her home past that when we had the option to leave as requested. The only violence we encountered in her home was after that point, we could have left peacefully but choose not to. So we were trespassing in her home, even though we were innocent of the crimes we were accused of. We still committed a crime to prove ourselves innocent of another. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronoPinoyX.7923 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said: That's not 100% accurate, though. We did not break in, Taimi let us in, and we weren't even aware that we had not been invited until we faced Joon. But most importantly, she acknowledged our innocence and basically said sorry, then went ahead and tried to get us killed again over her life's work, not because we had trespassed. That's a bit maniac, wouldn't you say? Taimi let us in when Joon specifically said to Taimi we were no longer invited Taimi is literally accessory to breaking and entering at that point lel Edited March 13, 2022 by ChronoPinoyX.7923 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desh.7028 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 55 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said: She told us to leave, we didn't. In our defense, we're only trying to save the world again and need her tech to do it. She wants to keep her power and her path would've ended the entirety of the world. 56 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said: Her security systems tried to kill us as a result XD And then again after she admitted we were innocent but couldn't get her way with her doomed plan to wrangle Soo-Won back into her cage so her Jade monopoly can keep going? At least it made sense to let her live story wise because she is really smart and we needed that vacuum thingy. Otherwise throwing a wrench at Taimi alone would've led to Joon sashimi. Even in Kaineng there are non-aggressive Jade Brotherhood low lives that the commander can murder without knowing anymore than their guilt by association. And a lot of other riff raff and bandits know what kind of justice the commander generally is interested in and it's not rehabilitation (unless you count as a ghost in the Mists). The commander is actually pretty infamous and self-righteous, which mostly works out because the world being saved is kind of nice. "Don't you know who I am?" must be the best line in the game at this point especially since it happens after Kasmeers remarks on the commanders character growth. Some interested in RP might not have liked it but the species of the commander matters when meeting the fisherman and Norn and Charr characters are setup to seem a lot less nice than humans or Sylvari. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Desh.7028 said: In our defense, we're only trying to save the world again and need her tech to do it. She wants to keep her power and her path would've ended the entirety of the world. In her defense, that's how she thought of us as well. Some foreign invader and trouble maker willing to break into her home demanding she do things their way and prepared to steal her technology/property to do it. Sure we could say Joon was being arrogant and overly defensive of her plans but we can say the same thing about our characters as well. Doesn't matter if we were right in the end, in the moment it was a difference of opinion between two people who were trying to save the world their own way. 3 minutes ago, Desh.7028 said: And then again after she admitted we were innocent but couldn't get her way with her doomed plan to wrangle Soo-Won back into her cage so her Jade monopoly can keep going? Keep in mind that Soo-Won consented to being confined in the first place and Joon had become close to her in a lot of ways. Wouldn't we have done the same thing if Aurene was in her position?.. explored every avenue to save her even if we knew killing her to save the world was potentially the only way to stop a threat. We kinda had to make that choice back in HoT with Traherne. Again in PoF when Aurene was being used against Kralkatorrik. Again in IBS when Braham became Primordus Champion. We always tried to save our friends even when the stakes were super high, hell we even fed a God to Kralkatorrik to save Aurene. Joon was only trying to do the same thing for Soo-Won. 3 minutes ago, Desh.7028 said: Even in Kaineng there are non-aggressive Jade Brotherhood low lives that the commander can murder without knowing anymore than their guilt by association. And a lot of other riff raff and bandits know what kind of justice the commander generally is interested in and it's not rehabilitation (unless you count as a ghost in the Mists). Well the Jade Brotherhood are well known violent radicals, who are considered enemies of the state. It's not like we just kill em on sight anyway, they are passive encounters at times and we can choose to attack them. But other times they are hostile and we kill them in self defense. It's not like we don't put differences aside and come together in the end to fight a common threat though, we even do so with their enemy faction who also happens to be a violent radical group of basically bigoted Nationalists. Rehabilitation isn't always an option and sometimes you're not really given a choice when it comes to kill or be killed. 3 minutes ago, Desh.7028 said: The commander is actually pretty infamous and self-righteous, which mostly works out because the world being saved is kind of nice. "Don't you know who I am?" must be the best line in the game at this point especially since it happens after Kasmeers remarks on the commanders character growth. Some interested in RP might not have liked it but the species of the commander matters when meeting the fisherman and Norn and Charr characters are setup to seem a lot less nice than humans or Sylvari. This is very true. This is one big a flaw with the Gw2 protagonist if you ask me. Because the game originally sells you on this being "Your" adventure, "Your" story. But in reality it isn't "Your" story, it's the Commanders! story. We are basically playing a predefined character with complete freedom over their cosmetic options. We can choose gender, appearance, race, build, weapon preferences, class. But we can't choose voice or personality, we can't decide where the story goes and how we react to the world etc. Sadly this was a consequence of the development decisions Anet made about this game. They wanted a continuing story, a living world that changes, huge events that shaped the world and the players freedom to have their characters react differently to all that ended up being left to the side. In a lot of ways allowing players to choose their race also contributed to this as well. If Gw2 had followed in Gw1's footsteps and limited the race choice to just Humans, we could have had a very different game and a more broad storyline for the Commander where choices did matter. But that's all what if this, what if that lol Gw2 is what it is. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASP.8093 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Imagine you're a billionaire. Anything you want, you've got it. You can buy houses the way other people buy sandwiches for lunch. Your every whim can be near-instantaneously fulfilled. You can have anything with almost no resistance. Pretty much the only thing you actually have to work at is, like, society-level changes (and, when you do focus on those, lots of people obey you and kiss up to you and call you their genius leader). It messes with your head, man. Your sense of reality. That's Joon. She's very smart and incredibly — incredibly! — rich. Of course she treats you like a footnote in her story. For a story that's ultimately forcing you to work with her, I think they managed to make her tolerable enough without totally sanding away that fundamental problem of mindset/perspective. (I might've slightly preferred a story where you don't have to work with her, there's kind of a bit too much of a group-hug quality to EoD, but I do think that she does work alright as a credible obstacle that you just have to overcome with persuasion rather than force.) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imba.9451 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said: If Gw2 had followed in Gw1's footsteps and limited the race choice to just Humans, we could have had a very different game and a more broad storyline for the Commander where choices did matter. But that's all what if this, what if that lol Gw2 is what it is. Thats my main gripe with the game as well. But it will never be able to go back on that. Race-diversity has been established, and even if for better storytelling, taking that away would kitten so many people off. Understandably so though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said: Thats my main gripe with the game as well. But it will never be able to go back on that. Race-diversity has been established, and even if for better storytelling, taking that away would kitten so many people off. Understandably so though. Oh absolutely lol It wouldn't be impossible to add more story choices, it would just be very difficult to do.. and costly. Ultimately I think they did make the right choice to scrap that early in the Gw2 game and just focus on "The Commander" storyline. It was probably the best scenario they had back then and the game is probably better off for it now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyuDragnier.9476 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 6 hours ago, Imba.9451 said: My bigger problem is how Mai Trin and Ankka were just wasted characters. Mai Trin could have been an awesome grain of salt to the main cast of characters, with her not just being a goodie.two-shoes, and Ankka would have been an excellent vessel for nihilistic world views and a truly philosophical angle to the story. Both wasted. Poof. Here, have moar Dragon drama. And more Aurene talking in her constant gasping voice. Have fun. Mai was definitely wasted. I would have loved for her to have made it to the end of the story, and then be brought into Dragon's Watch. A former pirate captain, that happens to channel the insane Scarlet Briar who may or may not have commentary just to troll us, or possibly have some insights into things? Would have added a very nice chaotic factor to the group. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 14 minutes ago, RyuDragnier.9476 said: Mai was definitely wasted. I would have loved for her to have made it to the end of the story, and then be brought into Dragon's Watch. A former pirate captain, that happens to channel the insane Scarlet Briar who may or may not have commentary just to troll us, or possibly have some insights into things? Would have added a very nice chaotic factor to the group. She certainly was wasted! Did you see all those liquor bottles? Disgraceful! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desh.7028 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 25 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said: Some foreign invader At that point she very well knows who we are. To her that's the champion of Aurene and Aurene is a friend of her dragon friend. 26 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said: We kinda had to make that choice back in HoT with Traherne. Again in IBS when Braham became Primordus Champion. Dead. Survived by some miracle of shoddy writing but we sure as hell tried. 27 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said: Rehabilitation isn't always an option and sometimes you're not really given a choice when it comes to kill or be killed. Except of course the commander has shown great interest in battlefield justice and giving no quarter, an actual war crime in the real world. 30 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said: Because the game originally sells you on this being "Your" adventure, "Your" story. I think there are still options open for players who want to RP to be in canon and still have their unique character but some things about the commander are set and importantly so. The whole story doesn't work with the PC being interested in just farm work and being nice to kitttens. The main thing about the game is about fighting. The different voices are just a result of not having infinite time and money for development. Each species already has two voices as is. I can't complain here even though more is always better. 19 minutes ago, RyuDragnier.9476 said: Mai was definitely wasted. Mainly grog iirc. Also her story outcome if not shot by Ankka would've been at the very best a jail cell in Lions Arch or "fiend food" if she insisted on anything else. Majory never would've let go of that one and she is right about it actually. Mai is a notorious criminal that did one good thing (and thank the gods she did, we were really in a pickle back there) but this doesn't wipe out all the murder she committed, as a cherry on top she even forgot Ashford's name. Wanting to turn over a new leaf and forgetting about the past only works if you haven't severely kittened with other people or their stuff. The world you're part of will remember and try to hold you accountable. That being said I liked Mai in EoD especially with Majory. The noodle stand scene was amazing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said: Adversaries with motivation is an American thing? More like a realistic thing. People don’t sit around rubbing their hands together plotting evil and cackling to themselves. They lash out due to fear or anger over feeling wronged, even if those fears or that anger is totally delusional. Well, excess of reality kill fantasy. This trend make plots and the world building like The Flistones, Dinosaur Family, The jetsons;. Everybody concerns is family, work, "normal life", the stress of work and dealing with people in daily life, sometimes make one or another crazy. How i have write Joon, to make it less boring: - her would be the Cantha Jeff Bezzos, Trump, Lex Luthor or another psycopath billionaire. shes lives a lavish life-style with drugs an sex, and don't bother with the world, as long her fortune isn't threatened. The Cantha elite are corrupt, and are fine with this as long technology work as carrot to make ppl dumb. - the over-automation leads to massive unemployment, this also fits with the "empty kaineng" feel that some players related. - the disaffected of canthan live in the ruins of kaineng. - Soo-Won is evil, but the canthan Lex-Luthor(Joon) managed to imprison her and use the dragon as power plant. - Taimi discovers that Soo-Won like a star life-cycle, will go supernova when run out of fuel. - Commander develops a plan, first free the dragon to prevent the supernova. but then kill him later. For that he counts on the 'rejects' of Cantha. - The final fight between aurene & allies x the last dragon nuke parts of cantha. - The Cantha elites are crushed in the process. - in the meantime, Logan marry with another person, Jennah ends up embittered, and takes it out on the way in which shes govern, shes becomes ambitious, imperialist/expansionist. - The rebuilding of Cantha make Jennah seems a oportunity and move in, and make cantha a puppet state of kryta. - Krytan theft of Cantha technology makes them have a technological/commercial jump. - Kryta become a empire, charr start become envy. - as result of growing tensions, alliances are formed, Kryta empire+"west tyria"(West Alliance) in other side charr+"east allies"(including norm) the (East alliance). - new xpac come out - GW2 - The Twilight of the Gods - A huge world war between West and East occur. - Aurene obscessed with "neutrality" stay aside. - Gods returns and side with humans. - Aurene find this unfair, and side with Charr. -The battle between gods and aurene, nuke Tyria, end of GW2. Edited March 13, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggie.3184 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) Joon was eh. A pest but I didn't see her as a villain. For the most part I was more bothered by Mai, which was a similar situation, but thankfully that was delt with even though she skip'd out on a lot more owed prison time and community service. 😐 It took them a while to give me a dialogue choice to eventually remind everyone that she was a criminal/murderer down the line which I was thankful for at least that. Was honestly waiting for it among all the sulking. She reminded me of a story character in FFXIV; Spoiler Which was Fordola~ The Butcher, but FF did it better XD I finally gained a lot of respect and acceptance for her after the Endwalker job quest when I saw how truly hard she was trying and how depressed/remorseful she was. Actually made me tear up when she hit rock bottom and I was ready to go all out to try and save her at that point. Edited March 13, 2022 by Doggie.3184 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Monarch.6058 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) I can't stand Marjory and Kasmeer, how do I rid myself of these two, they disgust me. Edited March 14, 2022 by Tungsten Monarch.6058 type 2 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaaba.5672 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 8 hours ago, Imba.9451 said: Edit: Also Taimis line about "You do know women have children? It's normal" seemed thrown in so incredibly into your face. That is NOT how I took that at all. For me it was a humanizing moment for Joon. All we know of her is her work with Jade Tech - it's good to be reminded that people have lives outside what we are shown. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaaba.5672 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Tungsten Monarch.6058 said: I can't stand Marjory and Kashmir, how do I rid myself of these two, they disgust me. Easy - delete game. Bye. 4 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallas.8150 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Joon was honestly the real villain in EoD. She's a Bond villain, pure and simple. It's unfortunate that the writers somehow handwaved everything she did that was bad and decided to ignore it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowmane.5826 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 minute ago, pallas.8150 said: Joon was honestly the real villain in EoD. She's a Bond villain, pure and simple. It's unfortunate that the writers somehow handwaved everything she did that was bad and decided to ignore it. Other than briefly try to kill someone that all evidence pointed to them potentially causing a world ending scenario, what exactly did Joon do that was wrong? I think people missed the part where the dragon killing Commander goes down to a reactor to meet a dragon, it then blows up; said dragon killer then goes straight to what is barely disguised as being a collective of criminals and rebels *kills another dragon* (even if not an Elder one) then attempts to storm her house with weapons. Despite her having told them to leave. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quench.7091 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Joon was less relatable, because she was about to lose Soo-Won, but their relationship felt more of a business one. Felt like she was willing to sacrifice everything for her business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallas.8150 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Snowmane.5826 said: Other than briefly try to kill someone that all evidence pointed to them potentially causing a world ending scenario, what exactly did Joon do that was wrong? I think people missed the part where the dragon killing Commander goes down to a reactor to meet a dragon, it then blows up; said dragon killer then goes straight to what is barely disguised as being a collective of criminals and rebels *kills another dragon* (even if not an Elder one) then attempts to storm her house with weapons. Despite her having told them to leave. You realize the Commander shows Joon proof that he/she is innocent, Joon acknowledges that, and then still tries to kill the character anyways. Did we play different stories? Because that's what I (and like everyone else) played. Edited March 13, 2022 by pallas.8150 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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