Dear Anet: Condi gear prices are out of control

[DragonMoon.6098]

Is it still the assumption that most players even use Viper or Berserker gear? I think I'm in the average camp, maybe a bit higher than average...I mean, I use arcdps...I study builds to see how to play them...I have multiple build sets on my main characters...I have a couple leggys (that I didn't buy)...so yeah, maybe high average...and I STILL CAN'T USE VIPER OR ZERKER GEAR after the original core content. I've tried. Nope. I have to use Marauder or Trailblazer or my most recent fave of Celestial. And I've never stuck with a build on Tormenting runes, though the only one I tried was Condi Renegade. I'm a fan of Traveler runes, Firework runes, Pack runes...those are cheap (and bonus movement speed boost for Traveler and Firework runes). Most of my builds are Condi and most use Celestial gear. I only have two Power builds that I can play with any amount of sustain, a Power Scrapper (Celestial Pack...that was a change after the nerf on barrier generation...and I've had people comment on her performance...she's a surprising little baddie, lol) and Power Reaper (Marauder Pack). 

So yeah, I couldn't care less about Viper or Zerker gear. Granted...Trailblazer is expensive and so is Celestial (friggen hate that infused quartz). BUT...you can even craft stat select armor if you don't want to grind to get it from VB. The recipes for Warbeast gear are expensive to buy, but once you have them, then the components needed aren't bad at all (short of the same issue with T6 leather for medium gear...I've spent entirely too much money on that crap and I hate farming it).

Anyways...where was I going with this? OH YES! The issue is that newbies and casuals are being priced out of equipment to use to get into end-game content. Are we talking raids or T4 fractals where glass cannon gear is a requirement? Or just end-game meta or strikes, etc? With my Marauder or Trailblazer or Celestial builds I'm regularly doing just fine damage-wise to "qualify" for that content, and I'm not dying constantly like most casuals would do with glass cannon gear (and like I would do with glass cannon gear)...so there are way more options out there than just those two stat sets. 

And if you're just trying to get into Condi gear, which is definitely more expensive than Power gear...you have to invest the time to get it. Sorry...either pay...or play. Also remember that the level 80 tokens now give Celestial gear if I remember right. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by DragonMoon.6098

[ArchonWing.9480]

On 4/19/2022 at 8:07 AM, DianTheJoker.4372 said:

Making deep calculations and cost-efficiency related brain-juggling, while still having the most casual mindset and not knowing basic stuff.
Why this topic still exists and ppl comment on it? 
 

Mostly a mental exercise for me, like solving a puzzle. I like to see what's the best solution in a given situation.

Like on my alt, I bought level 78 exotic trinkets because I know there's no point spending 10x on exotics that will obsolete in a few weeks. It's not like I can't afford the few extra gold, I just think it's a waste.

But I'm the type that uses Living World portal scrolls just to get a little closer to where I actually want to WP to save a few copper (granted, I can't WP directly out of A Bastion), but yea I'm extremely cheap, and don't mind sharing. xD

[Sahne.6950]

16 hours ago, disco.9302 said:

This thread in 7 pages long and yet nobody is able to see the real issue.

Posters have said that vipers gear/tormenting runes etc is too expensive relative to a power set.

The actual problem is that power stat gear, runes and sigils are too cheap. 

Anet - please increase the prices of power gear/runes etc to be in line with current condi sets!

THIS GUY GETS IT!

I always thought it was laughable how dirt cheap gear is in this game.

You want to start a new Character!?  WELLL!!! just use one of the 5 stacks of tomes of knowledge you have flying around in your bank to get to 80, Buy all the heropoints in WvW and sell 1 stack of any random material in your bank to buy BISgear for him! no problemo. 

you can start, completly level up, and completly gear a character in under 10 minutes....    Ever tried the same in a diffrent game?

YET..... you have people starting threads in the forum that the prices are... to high... "out of control"....  unbalanced... bla bla...  

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Caliboom.3218]

Do people seriously think making berserker gear more inaccessible is going to solve things?

Hey, let's make newer players use soldier's gear or something! Genius!

Edited April 21, 2022 by Caliboom.3218

[Linken.6345]

34 minutes ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

Do people seriously think making berserker gear more inaccessible is going to solve things?

Hey, let's make newer players use soldier's gear or something! Genius!

Solves as many things as making viper gear more accessible.

[Dante.1508]

15 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Solves as many things as making viper gear more accessible.

Vipers and Marauders is vastly superior to Berserkers for a new customer.. hell even Celestial is vastly superior to Berserkers..

Glass cannon builds do not promote great game play for new customers or even high ping vets..

[Dante.1508]

On 4/20/2022 at 7:10 PM, The Boz.2038 said:

If you consider the current avenues of equipping a character fully in exotic gear grind, regardless of stat, you most likely haven't played a lot of MMOs before, and don't know what grind really is, which neatly fits the claim I originally made 🙂

Try equipping a full set of Commanders, Cavaliers or Celestial exotics then get back to me on grind

[Hotride.2187]

While I was doing pof story on my war some new player on druid asked whether we can do the story together cause they werent doing enough dmg with cleric gear (I remember playing soldiers gear as new player so I understand the pain).

After that I got them a condi build and started crafting exotic trailblazer pieces for them. Since I was missing some recipes I just stopped crafting and bought everything. I think I spent like 100 gold for the armor and weapons, dont think I bought runes for the build (might be misremebering though). Excluding what I crafted from my mats.

Pretty expensive for exotics tbh. I guess you can buy cheaper stat combos to get enough condi dmg and expertise. But if you dont know what you are doing getting gear is probably expensive. Especially with how many options you have to make your own build, most of them bad.

The cele lvl 80 boost gear was a good idea I guess... if you cant bother to keep skills and traits situationally good, just splatter cele stats.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Ombras.2853]

On 4/20/2022 at 10:34 PM, DragonMoon.6098 said:

Is it still the assumption that most players even use Viper or Berserker gear? I think I'm in the average camp, maybe a bit higher than average...I mean, I use arcdps...I study builds to see how to play them...I have multiple build sets on my main characters...I have a couple leggys (that I didn't buy)...so yeah, maybe high average...and I STILL CAN'T USE VIPER OR ZERKER GEAR after the original core content. I've tried. Nope. I have to use Marauder or Trailblazer or my most recent fave of Celestial. And I've never stuck with a build on Tormenting runes, though the only one I tried was Condi Renegade. I'm a fan of Traveler runes, Firework runes, Pack runes...those are cheap (and bonus movement speed boost for Traveler and Firework runes). Most of my builds are Condi and most use Celestial gear. I only have two Power builds that I can play with any amount of sustain, a Power Scrapper (Celestial Pack...that was a change after the nerf on barrier generation...and I've had people comment on her performance...she's a surprising little baddie, lol) and Power Reaper (Marauder Pack). 

So yeah, I couldn't care less about Viper or Zerker gear. Granted...Trailblazer is expensive and so is Celestial (friggen hate that infused quartz). BUT...you can even craft stat select armor if you don't want to grind to get it from VB. The recipes for Warbeast gear are expensive to buy, but once you have them, then the components needed aren't bad at all (short of the same issue with T6 leather for medium gear...I've spent entirely too much money on that crap and I hate farming it).

Anyways...where was I going with this? OH YES! The issue is that newbies and casuals are being priced out of equipment to use to get into end-game content. Are we talking raids or T4 fractals where glass cannon gear is a requirement? Or just end-game meta or strikes, etc? With my Marauder or Trailblazer or Celestial builds I'm regularly doing just fine damage-wise to "qualify" for that content, and I'm not dying constantly like most casuals would do with glass cannon gear (and like I would do with glass cannon gear)...so there are way more options out there than just those two stat sets. 

And if you're just trying to get into Condi gear, which is definitely more expensive than Power gear...you have to invest the time to get it. Sorry...either pay...or play. Also remember that the level 80 tokens now give Celestial gear if I remember right. 

If I’m commanding a Strike squad and one of my dps players is on Marauder, I’ll kick him out without even questioning.

There is an appropriate gear for each kind of content. For story, champ solo, bounties, farms etc, Marauder/Cele/Trailblazer is absolutely fine (even preferred). If you expect to come to T4 Fractals/Strikes/Raids with those, don’t complain if you see people not accepting you.

[DragonMoon.6098]

2 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

If I’m commanding a Strike squad and one of my dps players is on Marauder, I’ll kick him out without even questioning.

There is an appropriate gear for each kind of content. For story, champ solo, bounties, farms etc, Marauder/Cele/Trailblazer is absolutely fine (even preferred). If you expect to come to T4 Fractals/Strikes/Raids with those, don’t complain if you see people not accepting you.

Apparently you didn't read my whole post. That's ok, I'll say it again. 

Quote

Are we talking raids or T4 fractals where glass cannon gear is a requirement? Or just end-game meta or strikes, etc? 

There's a reason why I don't do raids or T4 fractals...nor will I ever want to do them. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by DragonMoon.6098

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

If I’m commanding a Strike squad and one of my dps players is on Marauder, I’ll kick him out without even questioning.

You're kicking people for 10-15% damage less in strikes? lol.

I always run full zerk as pdps and I would immediately leave if I saw that crap.

Edited April 22, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Ombras.2853]

For a n end-game mode content which has most of the time a timer? I wonder why.

[Linken.6345]

13 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Vipers and Marauders is vastly superior to Berserkers for a new customer.. hell even Celestial is vastly superior to Berserkers..

Glass cannon builds do not promote great game play for new customers or even high ping vets..

You do know that viper is as glass cannon as berserker right?

[Sobx.1758]

Teeechnically condi has 2 stats, so Viper isn't pure condi, but instead condi +power 🤔 There are cheap condi options, they're just not optimal for going full dps.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Ashen.2907]

15 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Vipers and Marauders is vastly superior to Berserkers for a new customer.. hell even Celestial is vastly superior to Berserkers..

Glass cannon builds do not promote great game play for new customers or even high ping vets..

Vipers is as glass cannon as is Berzerkers.

[Dante.1508]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Vipers is as glass cannon as is Berzerkers.

Yes but a different way.

9 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

If I’m commanding a Strike squad and one of my dps players is on Marauder, I’ll kick him out without even questioning.

There is an appropriate gear for each kind of content. For story, champ solo, bounties, farms etc, Marauder/Cele/Trailblazer is absolutely fine (even preferred). If you expect to come to T4 Fractals/Strikes/Raids with those, don’t complain if you see people not accepting you.

And people here wonder why a large percentage wont do raids, this person is not alone and a huge part of the elitist raiding population.

Probably not all that good either.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Dante.1508

[ArchonWing.9480]

6 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

For a n end-game mode content which has most of the time a timer? I wonder why.

Of which most you'll never see if people know what they're doing.

There's greater problems there if it's a regular occurrence.

Edited April 23, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[mindcircus.1506]

1 hour ago, Dante.1508 said:

Yes but a different way.

Neither stat set offers any defensive statistical value.

They are glass cannon in an identical way.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

On 4/21/2022 at 1:33 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

THIS GUY GETS IT!

I always thought it was laughable how dirt cheap gear is in this game.

You want to start a new Character!?  WELLL!!! just use one of the 5 stacks of tomes of knowledge you have flying around in your bank to get to 80, Buy all the heropoints in WvW and sell 1 stack of any random material in your bank to buy BISgear for him! no problemo. 

you can start, completly level up, and completly gear a character in under 10 minutes....    Ever tried the same in a diffrent game?

YET..... you have people starting threads in the forum that the prices are... to high... "out of control"....  unbalanced... bla bla...  

 

 

You've described a veteran gearing up a new toon.  Congrats.  You've missed the point.  It's about the relative cost to get to the same or similar  effective strength as a Power DPS can as a new player.  It's prohibitive for someone who's new to the game to utilize a condition build even if it's something they enjoy using.

EDIT: Of course you'd be confused.

Please, just make a new account and tell me which set of roles is objectively faster to gear; Power DPS or Condition DPS.  Then tell me why one should take longer to acquire and cost more than the other.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Sir Alymer.3406

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

11 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

You're kicking people for 10-15% damage less in strikes? lol.

I always run full zerk as pdps and I would immediately leave if I saw that crap.

It's not even that much of a difference.  Unless a build is breaking the crit cap while wearing it, Marauder has between 90% to 92% of the damage of berserker.  Build specific considerations like ferocity and power bonuses favor the two builds differently, with ferocity benefiting Marauders and precision benefiting Berserkers.

That's just the start of it.  With banners losing their raw stat bonuses soon, it'll be even harder to crit cap.  Full berserker builds will start equipping accuracy sigils and swapping more and more pieces over to assassin's gear.  Marauders already has a natural 10% crit chance higher than berserkers, so it'll gain the benefits of keeping the impact sigils.  Remember that weapon strength varies by 10%, so a good marauder player is nigh indistinguishable from a berserker player on the DPS meters.  

 

[Nazarick.9653]

19 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

If I’m commanding a Strike squad and one of my dps players is on Marauder, I’ll kick him out without even questioning.

There is an appropriate gear for each kind of content. For story, champ solo, bounties, farms etc, Marauder/Cele/Trailblazer is absolutely fine (even preferred). If you expect to come to T4 Fractals/Strikes/Raids with those, don’t complain if you see people not accepting you.

 

And how do you even know what gear people are running?

 

[Despot.3048]

10 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Yes but a different way.

And people here wonder why a large percentage wont do raids, this person is not alone and a huge part of the elitist raiding population.

Probably not all that good either.

I mean. Fair. They probably aren't that good but considering the garbage you've been spewing on the forums, you're not that much better. 

[Ombras.2853]

The reason why people don’t get in this kind of content is one and only one: they don’t want to learn them.

Yes, a 10% difference is HUGE, considering that your typical dps already does like 1/3 of the benchmark. Snowcrows players could gear whatever and still clear raids in a reasonable time. If you’re not close to that level, you won’t.

There’s a reason why we use a certain type of gear. And no, that’s far from “being elitist”. Not to talk about the incredible number of details I could mention (tank issues, enraging timer, over presence of healing traits instead of boons, I can go on).

Fwyk, I am one of those who - whenever I command a squad - never asks for kp/LI. Not even for raids. Imagine me being toxic. But I pretend, as the game mode requires, that people in my squad have a good understanding of what we are going to face. The whole discussion in the last page shows that you guys don’t have a clue, and if you don’t have a clue, just move on.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Ombras.2853

[yann.1946]

On 3/26/2022 at 3:42 PM, DianTheJoker.4372 said:

For the time that OP answered every opinion/advice in the thread, while making bellow average attempts at economy analysis , they could`ve farmed full set of viper's and then some...

That misses the point so much it'd almost funny. Op is complaining about a discrepancy in time/resources between acquiring condi and power. That won't go away if they got condi gear

[yann.1946]

11 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

 

And people here wonder why a large percentage wont do raids, this person is not alone and a huge part of the elitist raiding population.

Probably not all that good either.

And this is objectively wrong, the exact opposite is true. Most people in the raiding community won't kick you for subpar gear. 

 

(Ofcourse if somebody takes over the tanking because they have more toughness then the tank it becomes problematic, but then it's more about communication then anything else.) 

 

I am coriuous why you claim raids are unpopular because of a lie. Is there no true statement you can give to say they are unpopular?