Dear Anet: Condi gear prices are out of control

[MathiasXII.7240]

40 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

Just farm the flax seeds and craft the gear. For tormenting rune, farm watchwork sprockets as the majority of the cost is from them. 

If you don’t want to go the crafting route, there are stat selectable exotic armor available from various sources. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Viper's

Flax seed isn't that hard to get, either. It's just a long process. 

You go do these every day with all your characters : 
1. Verdant Brink : Map lowest floor, At the top of the circle of the weird Steam logo located near Jaka Itzel.

2. Bloodstone Fen : floating isle east of Zealot's Overlook + highest floating isles

3. Draconis Mons : drop down in empty space north/west of Heathen's Hold. There's a cliff under the last cliff before hitting water. Go inside crevace.

4. Seitung Province : There's a mini garden of flax south of the waypoint near Seitung's Harbor at the other side of the building.

5. Tangled Depth : Start from the Order of Whispers Camp Waypoint and follow the cliff on the north side towards East. Past the Tangled Descent Vista, you'll see a drafts that will lead the way to an entrance at your left (Arboreal Overlook POI). Go inside, hallway on the left, through the stomp wall and loot the flax there. This path is more dangerous though.

 

There's probably other spots as well! Do these every day (takes 150 flax seed per equipment piece, including two hand weapons) and you'll get enough flax for every armor piece  in 10 days top if you do it with 4 characters. 

The sprockets part is quite tricky as there's only one really cheap way to slooowly get em', which involves going into a player home instance which has a node on a new day. However, there's many other runes you can equip in the meanwhile. Torment is just one of them.

Edited March 17, 2022 by MathiasXII.7240
Fixed the flax seed count

[mythical.6315]

22 minutes ago, MathiasXII.7240 said:

The sprockets part is quite tricky as there's only one really cheap way to slooowly get em', which involves going into a player home instance which has a node on a new day. However, there's many other runes you can equip in the meanwhile. Torment is just one of them.

The easiest way is probably the gathering tool although that requires a purchase if someone doesn’t already have it. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by mythical.6315

[MathiasXII.7240]

Just now, mythical.6315 said:

The easiest way is probably the gathering tool. 

Right, I forgot about the gathering tool ! 🙂 

[Strider Pj.2193]

40 minutes ago, MathiasXII.7240 said:

Right, I forgot about the gathering tool ! 🙂 

And it is very helpful..  Not telling people to use gems but it does help lol..

[Rogue.8235]

Quick interjection.

What happened to the complaints that the game is ruined because rune of tormenting was nerfed?  Is the sky falling or not?  I'm asking for an avian friend.

 

[Khisanth.2948]

19 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

Quick interjection.

What happened to the complaints that the game is ruined because rune of tormenting was nerfed?  Is the sky falling or not?  I'm asking for an avian friend.

 

It was nerfed so badly that everyone wants it 🤣

but jokes aside, different people I imagine.

1 hour ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

And it is very helpful..  Not telling people to use gems but it does help lol..

You don't need to spend gems. The tools can be bought for karma as well. Although if you do the math converting the karma to gold and using the gold to buy watchwork sprockets is actually more efficient. Unless sprockets go up further in price to around 5s/each. Right now is also a good time to get a glyph of the watchknight since it is dropping from the current BLC. That will go away with the next BLC update which is probably for SAB if not sooner.

[Strider Pj.2193]

5 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

It was nerfed so badly that everyone wants it 🤣

but jokes aside, different people I imagine.

You don't need to spend gems. The tools can be bought for karma as well. Although if you do the math converting the karma to gold and using the gold to buy watchwork sprockets is actually more efficient. Unless sprockets go up further in price to around 5s/each. Right now is also a good time to get a glyph of the watchknight since it is dropping from the current BLC. That will go away with the next BLC update which is probably for SAB if not sooner.

Nice.  I did not know that.  I bought (back when it first came out) the watchwork pick as it was (at the time) the only permanent tool that gave a bonus..  

 

Forgot about the karma tools.  

[MineMeMy.7854]

5 hours ago, MathiasXII.7240 said:

Flax seed isn't that hard to get, either. It's just a long process. 

You go do these every day with all your characters : 
1. Verdant Brink : Map lowest floor, At the top of the circle of the weird Steam logo located near Jaka Itzel.

2. Bloodstone Fen : floating isle east of Zealot's Overlook + highest floating isles

3. Draconis Mons : drop down in empty space north/west of Heathen's Hold. There's a cliff under the last cliff before hitting water. Go inside crevace.

4. Seitung Province : There's a mini garden of flax south of the waypoint near Seitung's Harbor at the other side of the building.

5. Tangled Depth : Start from the Order of Whispers Camp Waypoint and follow the cliff on the north side towards East. Past the Tangled Descent Vista, you'll see a drafts that will lead the way to an entrance at your left (Arboreal Overlook POI). Go inside, hallway on the left, through the stomp wall and loot the flax there. This path is more dangerous though.

 

There's probably other spots as well! Do these every day (takes 150 flax seed per equipment piece, including two hand weapons) and you'll get enough flax for every armor piece  in 10 days top if you do it with 4 characters. 

The sprockets part is quite tricky as there's only one really cheap way to slooowly get em', which involves going into a player home instance which has a node on a new day. However, there's many other runes you can equip in the meanwhile. Torment is just one of them.

just buy selectable

[Firefox.2348]

I just made a mirage alt the other day. Exotic Viper's was indeed more expensive including the trinkets, compared to power gear. The build requires nightmare runes as well, but I don't have those. So I crafted x5 of trappers runes and used a black diamond. Now I'm working on getting all the LW trinkets and nightmares. But apparently the x5 trappers and the black diamond isn't even a 3% difference. It's almost identical

Edited March 18, 2022 by Jools.6293

[Mrs Lana.2506]

Unfortunately this is just because of the lack of balance between condi builds and power builds. The shift to condi meta has been real, and it's only getting worse.

[Peterson.5172]

oh oh oh i know what the reason is: condi is too op so too many people play it, should just nerf condi across the board so the gear becomes cheaper

[Desh.7028]

7 hours ago, Miss Lana.5276 said:

Unfortunately this is just because of the lack of balance between condi builds and power builds. The shift to condi meta has been real, and it's only getting worse.

 

As it happened some condition builds were (or are) simply FOTM. This doesn't actually have anything to do between power vs condi which is one thing that's actually well balanced.

We'd need to look at one elite spec with both options and then compare. In a case where both deal an equal amount of DPS it will come to smoothness and utility or the power version will be per default better. Power bursts on demand and then falls off while conditions need to ramp up - this lead to the Exposed debuff being adjusted. If this adjustment puts condition builds over the top in some content why not adjust the actual source of the issue? And how is it getting worse currently?

[Ashen.2907]

On 3/16/2022 at 5:03 PM, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

First, they have a developer in charge of maintaining the economy--

When did they rehire or replace him after they eliminated his position years ago?

 

On 3/16/2022 at 6:31 PM, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

 

I guess you missed where I said:

 

Anything that you have to farm is NOT free.  It costs you time.  Gold and karma are ubiquitous, but you only have berries or petrified stumps if you farmed them--most noobs won't have any, so you're talking days or weeks of farming, depending on how much time they have to play.  But not so for zerker--much more likely the average player has enough to buy a full set TODAY, and if not, do a few metas and you will. And, you can get a full set of zerker armor from karma vendors for zero gold, and even a lot of noobs will have enough karma for the set.  So by your measure zerker armor is still cheaper than vipers by infinity percent.

You also ignored trinkets, so no it's not 6g.  And do you really think all these people having trouble with the DE meta are going to do CM98?  I don't.    Let's be real here--anyone who RIGHT NOW has enough airship parts or LW cubits to buy the gear is...not who we're talking about, and not the majority of the player base.

For a noob there is not likely to be any significant difference between the bleeding edge levels of performance possible with the top most tier of condi gear and the less effective, but still effective, second tier options. That same noob would likely struggle with a purely glass berserker build.

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Ashen.2907]

On 3/16/2022 at 7:27 PM, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

Most importantly, it's a problem for the average player.

No it is not.. The average player would be very poorly served by top tier glassy DPS build such as the Viper's builds you reference.

[Infusion.7149]

Condi dominance is only going to get worse with EOD strikes that have 20 million+ total health (and "adds" with 6 million+ on par with fractal bosses) due to movement and AoE everywhere. I don't think condi is FOTM (flavor of the month?) in instanced content for the most part (with some exceptions such as Keep Construct , Vale Guardian, and other places you get +35% power DPS). Your scholar uptime tanks and the top sustained DPS is condi now (see 39K+ condi specter, condi harbinger, condi mech, condi willbender, condi ren, condi mirage, condi virtuoso).

There was only one power build over 40K at all that wasn't reliant on aegis (meaning it isn't going to work in new EOD strikes reliably) and that was catalyst which in reality was 38-39K before nerfs if you can't stand in hitbox. Realistically most are 36-38K power builds, take away 5% from scholar and you're at ~34-36K. Power only really excels versus trash mobs (1 million health is below 125K total damage per non heal player) and low health adds as well as phased fights where things die or phase in less than 20 seconds. Conditions may need time to ramp up but the meta burning and torment focus is rather fast with 25K+ at 5 seconds in, looking at willbender , firebrand , renegade, specter, mechanist, harbinger, or scourge for example.

For example the most "bursty" power: power DH radiance vs condi willbender, 20s for 800K health. Power soulbeast vs condi soulbeast: 19s vs 21s , 18s hybrid. Power holo vs condi mech: 20s vs 22s. To put that into perspective the absolute fastest log on wingman right now is around 20s Mai Trin EOD Strike phase 1 and over 30s for Ankka.

If condi dominance is to end you'd need to have exposed debuff completely removed so that power burst is still higher than condi (if peak burst on power is below 70K it isn't going to bode well with +30% bonus compared with condis that ramp up to 30K in 6 seconds or less and have +100% bonus) , see raids that have stun only.

That's not to mention most condition builds can be played at range in some fashion.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Doggie.3184]

The Guild armor isn't too bad but you gotta farm Dragon's Stand pods for the recipes. 

[Bladezephyr.5714]

On 3/17/2022 at 3:13 AM, kenny.7236 said:

I believe in the long run it is more cost-effective to craft your own ascended gear.

Only if you intend to eventually get ascended gear.  I only get full ascended for my most played toons, alts tend to stay in exotic... which is fine for every game mode except fractals.

[Bladezephyr.5714]

On 3/17/2022 at 1:38 PM, Khisanth.2948 said:

Well they also believe viper's is the only condi stat in the game and tormenting is the only rune.

Absolutely no one said that, my intentionally obtuse, straw-man-wielding friend.  What I did was compare the cost of getting top-tier power gear to top-tier condi gear.  Pick any exotic condi set that has both condi and expertise, including ones that are not even close to top tier, with literally any rune, and it's 3x-5x more expensive than zerker with scholar runes. WHY?  There's absolutely no good reason it should be that way, from a game play or player satisfaction standpoint.  It creates an unfair burden on players who are moving into their next phase of game play who want to play a condi spec--a burden that power builds don't have.  If every elite spec had a reasonably competitive power build, this wouldn't matter much, but not all do.  And no, you don't need top tier gear to play a spec, but it's generally more enjoyable if you have it.  The "budget" condi sets typically will do 20-30% less damage than the meta for that build, which is HUGE--it can easily be the difference between success and failure for people who are just coming into that phase of skill, which can be the difference between enjoying the game, and quitting the game.  The bottom line is it segregates the specs and limits who can play some of them based on player resources--mostly time.  Needlessly and unfairly.

And I already know some of you will condescendingly dismiss this by saying, "oh just play a different spec then."  But have some perspective.  Being told that you need to go play some spec you don't want to play for dozens of hours so that you can get to play the spec you do want to play, when another player who prefers a different spec doesn't need to, is irritating garbage.  It can and does push some players away from the game, and it definitely has... I know it has cuz some of the people I used to play with don't play anymore for exactly this reason.  Actually, in some form or other, everyone I know who quit, did so for basically that reason, when you boil it down.

 

On 3/17/2022 at 8:07 AM, kharmin.7683 said:

Heaven forbid that if someone wants something that they might have to actually pay for it.

Absolutely no one said that, either. See above.

And stat-selectable gear is NOT free.  You have to farm it.  Just like you have to farm gold to pay for your zerker gear  Difference is, whatever you're farming, you have to do A LOT LESS OF IT if you're buying zerker than if you're buying condi gear.  Whatever currency you're using is only a value store--the value it stores is your time.  No matter how you slice it, gearing a condi spec well will take you a lot more effort than gearing a power spec well.

 

On 3/17/2022 at 8:23 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

God forbid that you actually have to farm to get your gear 😧

Man, at least try to be original with your straw men...

 

On 3/17/2022 at 9:09 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

okey then let me ask you one question.

are they manually changing prices of the Auctionhouse with a specific goal in mind?

if the answer is no we are having a free market here.

Sorry, no, that's not how free markets work.  You need to go take an economics class.  This is basic econ 101:  The price of goods is affected BOTH by demand (what players want to buy and are willing to pay for it) AND SUPPLY.  Anet 100% controls the supply.  And they do that in more than one way:

1. They control whether and how much an item drops.  Items that drop frequently will be worth less, because you can get them easily.  Items that don't drop at all--like all gear with condi & expertise--will be more expensive.  Those items will require crafting, which leads us to the next way Anet manipulates the market. 
2. The other way they limit supply is with time-gated items.  All of the time-gated items in the game cost much more on the TP than similar items that aren't.  Because the supply is artificially kept low, by the time gate.
3. They control the recipes that are required to craft those items.  Tormenting runes are the perfect example.  They currently cost about 11g TO MAKE.  Scholar runes are nowhere near that, even at the sell price on the TP.  And they don't drop (see #1)--the only way they enter the market is by crafting.  So in addition to the supply being low, the base materials drive the price way up.  In this case it's sprockets... a time-gated material.  See #2.
4. For crafted-only items, they also control the availability of those recipes.  Again, tormenting runes are a good example.  They're only available from PSNA's, which many, probably most players don't even know about.  This again reduces the availability, making these items among the hardest items in the game to get, short of legendary gear. And legendary gear is exactly the same, just more extreme, mostly due to the outrageous amounts of things you need to craft them, many of which are time-gated materials.  All of 1-4 apply.

And by the way, Anet also partially controls demand.  How?  Simple.  They know what specs do the most damage, and they certainly well know that players generally will flock to the specs that do the most damage.  So by creating specs that outperform others, they are creating the demand for the gear for those specs.  Same goes for the best support specs.

There's absolutely nothing "free" about the in-game market.

[Bladezephyr.5714]

On 3/17/2022 at 8:40 AM, Labjax.2465 said:

If you mean free market in the literal sense, no such thing really exists. If you mean free market as in the illusion of a "free" market that is highly regulated by someone in power to get specific results for those in charge, then yes, they have an economist who sets it all up very carefully to get the results they want and ensure things don't get out of hand.

Yeah, this is exactly right.

[Bladezephyr.5714]

On 3/17/2022 at 1:35 PM, Duglaive.5236 said:

 

The level of deliberate obtuseness in the bulk of the responses ... just  ... wow.  😬

Welcome to the GW2 forums. 🙃

[Bladezephyr.5714]

8 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

No it is not.. The average player would be very poorly served by top tier glassy DPS build such as the Viper's builds you reference.

Yes, it is.  Because eventually many average players progress to the point where they want to get better, want to play more end-game content, and this is an obstacle for them.  And yeah, a lot won't... but among those who won't, this problem, and other similar problems like it, are a big part of the reason.  There are plenty of others, but this one is much easier to fix than most of the rest.  This game has a fairly good-size population of players who, for example, want to get into raiding.  And one of the biggest reasons they don't is because they aren't let into raid groups, because they don't have the gear for the spec they want to play, and getting it is too much effort.  Again, there are plenty of others, but this one is much easier to fix than most of the rest.

[Taygus.4571]

On 3/17/2022 at 12:47 PM, Sahne.6950 said:

is that really happening in Guildwars? idk buddy.. when i post something in Auctionhouse the price doesnt magicly change... i can put any item at any price that i want... doesnt look like someone is regulating it.

I could be wrong tho.

they dont regulate it like that. They regulate prices by changing acquisition rates.

most recent example, Mystic coins. That  change was specifically done because they wanted them cheaper and easier to get. They said so.

Why are people so against the OP?

Gear stats should have similar acquisition prices. They do, if getting from armor venders as they're stat selectable. 

drops associated with crafting condi gear and runes should adjust so that its not 5x as much as power gear.

[Rasimir.6239]

18 minutes ago, Taygus.4571 said:

Why are people so against the OP?

Gear stats should have similar acquisition prices. They do, if getting from armor venders as they're stat selectable.

I think you've just answered your own question. Crafted gear hasn't been cost-effective for a long time. Stat-selectable gear exists, and makes aquisition of exotic gear equal across all stat combinations.

 

The problem OP is trying to construct on the pretext of being concerned about new players is theoretical. Practically new players are much better served by a variety of cheaper alternatives that are just as effective for learning the game, combat and encounter mechanics, and how to survive and deal damage with their class of choice. By the time their player skill level and knowledge of the game has gotten to the point where they can actually make use of the one-and-only top tier stat choice, they'll have played the game plenty to get their hands on stat-selectables from a variety of sources.

 

The game really requires minimal investment to get your hands on equipment that allows you to participate in all content. It may not be the theoretical best (that you likely won't be able to get the most out of anyway due to missing player skill if you're new), but it won't stop you from playing any content you're interested in, and playing successfully.

[GoldenPants.1870]

On 3/16/2022 at 11:57 PM, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

So, Anet, aside from locking poorer players out of effectively playing and enjoying these specs, what exactly is the point of this?  It seems to me some adjustments are badly needed here.

Craft the things yourself. 

[Bladezephyr.5714]

15 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

I think you've just answered your own question. Crafted gear hasn't been cost-effective for a long time. Stat-selectable gear exists, and makes aquisition of exotic gear equal across all stat combinations.

No, it absolutely does not!  Because you get gold for doing pretty much everything in the game, and because zerker is so cheap, it's still way faster and less effort to buy zerker with gold than to farm a full set of stat-selectable gear by any method possible in the game.