When is Celestial getting nerfed?

[Salt Mode.3780]

As the title says.

[Clownmug.8357]

Why, what's wrong with it?

[Salt Mode.3780]

21 minutes ago, Clownmug.8357 said:

Why, what's wrong with it?

yikes

[somsom.5201]

There's nothing wrong with it. The only thing "yikes" is this thread.

[Swagger.1459]

Losing a duel to someone using celestial gear doesn’t warrant a change. Perhaps improving skill sets are a better and more logical route, but that’s just me. 

[Clownmug.8357]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

yikes

 

Ok, don't bother to explain. I'll just assume you want everyone using pvp amulets as the solution then.

[Shroud.2307]

23 minutes ago, Clownmug.8357 said:

 

Ok, don't bother to explain. I'll just assume you want everyone using pvp amulets as the solution then.

It's overstacked and limits diversity because playing hybrid always means Cele is the best option unless you want to sacrifice defenses.

Some classes take more advantage of the stat than others. It isn't good on everything, and what it is good on it's mostly about making it a very sustainable duelist and outnumbered fighter with a good deal of killing power.
It is extremely forgiving on what ever you slap it on, and it gets stronger the more of it you use. Personally when I use Cele I use Cele everything, mix of Expertise, Concentration, Power, and Condition damage infusions, and Divinity runes, because it's just moar everythingz.

To be fair, it isn't amazing in group settings. It's mostly an issue smaller scale and solo. I don't think the stat is in dire need of nerfs, it doesn't really effect WvW outside of making a lot of unfun to fight roaming builds.
But the stat is absolutely overstacked.

I think the best way to fix it would be to just reduce the numbers by 1 or 2 all down the line.

[Telgum.6071]

Been playing Celestial Harbinger lately, just to confirm is the same way it was with Herald, Renegade and Ranger: spam conditions on the enemy, focus on survival and let the enemy die, doesn't matter if you make mistakes because you still have healing power, toughness and vitality to back you, not to mention concentration + defensive boons. Build crafting isn't even a thing, just run full Celestial + either condition or more boon stacking runes and you are good to go. As if condition spam wasn't broken enough alone, with the past Celestial buff we have bunkers spamming conditions, what a fun gameplay!

I don't understand what is wrong with people defending Celestial stats. Is a big meme between duelers and roamers, having a hard time in your power setup? Just switch to Celestial and turn off your brain.

But I guess this is what Anet wants, considering the previous buffs without any stated intentions, so the way right now in my opinion is use it, abuse it until they finally realize how OP it is and remove it from WvW, just like they rightfully did it in PvP.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Telgum.6071

[Dralor.3701]

Assuming WvW is balanced around larger fights.. celestial is fine because you are likely failing at your job as dps or whatever else.

All those 1v1s you lose does the other dude send you a tell afterward where he says he’s in full celestial? Just curious.

[Odin.6487]

most of the problem comes from the overloaded stats on celestial gear. certain classes can abuse the stats ( renegade, soulbeast, weaver, spellbreaker). Fights tend to get drawn out and if youre a pure power or condi class you really dont stand a chance against someone running cele. 

[Swagger.1459]

13 minutes ago, Odin.6487 said:

most of the problem comes from the overloaded stats on celestial gear. certain classes can abuse the stats ( renegade, soulbeast, weaver, spellbreaker). Fights tend to get drawn out and if youre a pure power or condi class you really dont stand a chance against someone running cele. 

Most of the problems come from players who lose a duel, then come to the forums making excuses (Must be gear, other x power, must nerf something something) as to why they lost. As is the case for this thread existing as well. 
 

Some people should stick to spvp instead if they find wvw encounters difficult to navigate. After all, spvp provides the handicaps and training wheels so players can learn to grasp the fundamentals of combat and prepare themselves for the no holds barred experience in wvw. Some can handle it, some can’t, if there are players out there that can’t handle certain gear levels, then they are free to stick to spvp. 

[Kontrolle.3514]

you guys are disgusting, go back to the pvp you ruined. Your constant crying is destroying our support classes that we need for zergvszerg to be fun. Just leave please. Quit the game, play new world, go PvE or spvp just leave

[Salt Mode.3780]

42 minutes ago, Swagger.1459 said:

Most of the problems come from players who lose a duel, then come to the forums making excuses (Must be gear, other x power, must nerf something something) as to why they lost. As is the case for this thread existing as well. 
 

Some people should stick to spvp instead if they find wvw encounters difficult to navigate. After all, spvp provides the handicaps and training wheels so players can learn to grasp the fundamentals of combat and prepare themselves for the no holds barred experience in wvw. Some can handle it, some can’t, if there are players out there that can’t handle certain gear levels, then they are free to stick to spvp. 

No its quite logical that a set that added 2 new stats to it expertise and con, it should be balanced out to the rest of the stats. Essentially celestial is giving 1 whole set and a half+ worth of stat points no math expert here but that is much more valued then other sets. Especially when concentration and expertise are stats that increases duration of condi out and boons in.

I don't think you need to be a pvp genius or math wiz to know this. Fact sPvP I dare say can be a more skilled engaged combat then WvW, you work with limited builds and stats. Only difference is builds are based on node capture rather then random ganking or zerging.

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

1 hour ago, Odin.6487 said:

most of the problem comes from the overloaded stats on celestial gear. certain classes can abuse the stats (  spellbreaker). 

? did I miss something

[DanAlcedo.3281]

2 hours ago, Kontrolle.3514 said:

you guys are disgusting, go back to the pvp you ruined. Your constant crying is destroying our support classes that we need for zergvszerg to be fun. Just leave please. Quit the game, play new world, go PvE or spvp just leave

Just for clarification. 

What has Cele to do with support builds? 

 

[Hotride.2187]

Soon hopefully. Though I just don't duel / bother with cele players so technically... who cares.

For players who go "muh celeeeeeeeee"... just lol. Continue pretending you are playing the game, as opposed to your build playing the game for you.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I think for the people who are asking what is wrong with it now, I have to ask: what was wrong with it before? It still saw play beforehand and I don't think anyone really considered it underpowered. Now it gives as much boon duration as Minstrel's while also giving as much condi duration as Trailblazer's, and still offers everything else it did beforehand. I just personally don't think a stat spread should give that much value. 

[Comus.7365]

it making a small amount of builds strong doesn't warrant it getting nerfed.. that's just silly.

 

[subversiontwo.7501]

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Just for clarification. 

What has Cele to do with support builds? 

 

A wild guess would be that he refers to hybrid support builds on Ele and Guard, builds that are not optimised for any specifics but are passable and provide some alternative and an element of fun (getting some bags etc.). Incidentally, both those classes are classes with built-in massive stat holes.

I think that last part speaks volumes for the thread and whatever duplicates we are going to get whenever the next person makes a complaint about the surface value of more stats without a notion of dedicated stats. There are plenty of stat sets that Anet could look at if they wanted to address builds where stats carry bulk but to do that they would first need to look at a whole bunch of classes where traits and mechanics makes the stats more of a problem and they would fundamentally have to look at stat holes and scaling because this isn't the same game as in 2012.

Until then, most of this stuff is fine-ish. It probably would be better to do the big work and overhaul much of the core class mechanics but these cry threads just want simple changes for themselves and whatever one class they play and just got smacked on. They care nothing about what gets caught in the crossfire or actual balance.

Edited March 30, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Kozumi.5816]

Anet's vision for PvP in their games are boon-heavy sustain-heavy slow paced games. From this information, I wouldn't expect any nerfs to celestial.

[godfat.2604]

Nerf the numbers to be 90% or 95% should be a good start to try.

[Clownmug.8357]

Hmm, maybe Catalyst is actually top tier if a few extra stats points are so groundbreaking.

[RisenHowl.2419]

4 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Soon hopefully. Though I just don't duel / bother with cele players so technically... who cares.

For players who go "muh celeeeeeeeee"... just lol. Continue pretending you are playing the game, as opposed to your build playing the game for you.

 

Muh builds play for me

[Swagger.1459]

@Salt Mode.3780

 

Let’s break this down in a civilized way.

 

You were in wvw on the side of smc. (Now this is wvw mind you, that was primarily designed for mass group combat to occur. At times you have massive 3 group fights going on with over 100-200 players… unlike spvp, that was offered to players as the small scale as-fair-as-they-can-make pvp mode for competition on a 5v5 scale for “cool” esports stuff that was dropped by ESL because it was so awful that participation rates were abysmal.). You dueled twice. Once to a stalemate. Once you had been defeated. 
 

Now after the defeat, instead of changing tactics or accepting the outcome graciously, you had defaulted to blaming celestial gear instead of yourself. Not really thinking that the opponent may have been better overall, or even just better in the moment. No, it must have been the gear. So instead of say “gj” or “nice fight” and taking that experience to improve yourself or build or gear… the opposite route was taken and you decided to ask for a needless gear nerf that impacts the entire game instead. On top of that, you provided zero context or logical explanation why, because you knew the root issue was a defeat in a duel… That’s not a substantial reason to change anything in this game and you know it 100%.
 

Having said that, spvp is probably the better mode for you to go duel since “fairness” is your concern when it comes to duels. You can even buy a token and have your own pvp duel room and set up whatever rules to practice and test your skills in a mode with its own restrictions and gear limitations.

 

Wvw will not change to meet your dueling needs, nor will the devs bend their knees to those who sit in duel clusters complaining about balance. And if you think about it, it’s quite selfish to ask the devs to change the mode for you, especially when you don’t want to change or improve yourself. And I get it, it’s human nature to feel some type of way when defeated, however, certain players will take those experiences and improve themselves instead. While the others, who only value winning, won’t really grow because they will devote their energy to trying to change the rules just for the sake of winning.

 

Gear isn’t the issue inside of WvW, it’s the non-competitive minded player mentality who only seeks to “win” and can’t learn from defeat. 

 

 

[Kontrolle.3514]

6 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Just for clarification. 

What has Cele to do with support builds? 

 

Your complains and the tears that you cry.