Coming back to some old content-Serpent's Ire needs a lot of work.

[SolarDragon.7063]

This is a meta that just... puts barrier upon barrier in front of completing it, and doesn't even give full meta rewards because of the dual meta map it's on. Which results in a piece of content nobody wants to do for itself, that then has several collections put into it. This is a problem.

So, first off. The Brand is a huge problem at every phase of this event. I'm sure it's meant to be part of the challenge, but that challenge means nobody does it regularly (especially combined with the reward problems)

Phase 1 with the Zealots. This is a huge amount of just... busywork. You have to have people scouring the entire area (including some very tucked away spawns), instead of actually doing the meta. Also sometimes the djinni don't follow the zealots (the southeast point is very prone to this) so you die repeatedly because of Brand mechanics. Then you sometimes get chains of the same modifier spawning (I had a run recently with all 5 Shielded) which can be awful if it's a bad interaction with having to deal with the Brand.

 

Phase 2 with the CC is... not the worst IF you have a squad doing it that has people doing full damage and CC, but the bars scale with the zone so there's not really any good way to do it by spreading out and CCing as appropriate, and the bar comes back up so quickly compared to how long it takes to drop. This all makes it more or less impossible without a large zerg squad.

 

Phase 3 manages to be even less fun because of how the mechanics can combine. The most recent run I did, I spent about 90% of the fight unable to actually damage Ysshi, AKA the only target that damaging matters. If the spark invuln phase wasn't up, the ranged damage blocking was. While the idea here seems to be to encourage not just sitting at 1200 spamming 1, in practice it means that many builds that don't have the option to change weapons just... don't actually get to play.

 

Then finally, it shares rewards with the other map meta that is both easier, quicker, and much more fun. So you can go through all this... and get rewards for killing a champion.

 

 

So how to fix this?
Make mechanics less busywork. Make it less about RNG hunting in phase 1. Make bars actually matter in phase 2.
Change the Ysshi fight to not be about stopping people from playing the game.
Rewards could allow for a Hero's Choice from each meta once, or give it unique rewards that aren't once off collection gates.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Personally I'd like to see the rewards increased and de-coupled from Forged in Fire.  Also I'd like to see Ysshi' shield get some TLC to make it better.

That long starting phase serves a purpose.  Serpent's Ire was meant to be like Triple Trouble, in the sense that it is an overworld raid boss that requires a lot of cooperation to get through.  A problem with TT is that you need to organize half an hour before it starts, ruining any sort of spontaneity that Dynamic Events are supposed to encourage.  So, to encourage this spontaneity and slow buildup of players, Serpent's Ire was given a starting phase that was long, could be started by a single player, and encouraged growing numbers and teammwork.  Back when I used to host this event, a surprisingly large number of players would join in on the hunt after we had already gotten started.  A group of 20 players could more than double at that time, just because people heard we're doing it.  This also serves as a soft skill and umbers check: if a group isn't capable of spawning and hunting down all of the zealots, then they aren't capable of beating the next steps.

There's something you're missing about phase 2: the stunned/defiance break mechanic on the zealots lasts far longer than the bar takes to regenerate.  It lasts for 15 seconds..  It wasn't originally like this, but Anet nerfed this part years ago because it was utterly ridiculous.  It's far easier now with EMPs, which let most professions shred the bar without much strain on their build.  It isn't crucial that CC the zealot as soon as the blue bar comes back.  Though many hours of experimentation, I've determined the best way to handle the zealots is to go with a 3-pronged strat.  If you have 15+ players, you'll want to put 5-10 on the center-north zealot while stacking everyone else on the southern corners.  That additional stun buys plenty of time while the other two can get DPSed down quite quickly.  You only need 5 per zealot, and the minimum number I've seen successfully complete this event is 10, but I've heard rumors about competent groups of 5 doing it.

I won't lie about Ysshi's shifting protections: it is the worst.  Technically there's 4 categories for damage in this game: melee, range, AoE, and miscellaneous.  The descriptions of his barriers are wrong: it sounds like they'd block one damage type, but really it blocks 3 and only permits in the opposite (range for melee shield, melee for range shield).  This makes it really confusing and also makes it hard to do damage on nearly any build.  There definitely needs to be better labeling and a better visual indicator.    That all said, Ysshi and Pekt Rakt are overworld raid bosses.  Though most people zerg it, there's supposed to be a strategy here.  You break off into two groups (most on Ysshi, small group on Pekt), get Pekt's health under 50% and then break off everybody but Pekt's tank to go focus on Ysshi.  Doing this distracts Pekt, and without his stun spam it is much easier to DPS Ysshi down.  However, zergs don't tend to do this right, so they end up pulling Pekt onto Ysshi and the whole thing becomes a mechanical nightmare  Runs with a level of competency here are as smooth as butter, with some ending before Ysshi can make a second spark phase.  

[Randulf.7614]

I don’t disagree with you, but the chance for this was when they heavily nerfed the event to make it easier to get through. It’s rare enough to see balance passes on events, I’m not sure we will ever see a mechanical change to this one even though it prob needs it

[Emberfoot.6847]

Tbh I think it just needs better rewards and then people would be more inclined to do it. I quite enjoy the event myself,  but rarely do it for several reasons. The map is not often well populated, and the rewards are so sub-par that it isn't a "destination" event like pinata, where people will zone in specially for it. This means that even the few people already in the map don't even bother trying to start it, because it is very very unlikely that you will get enough players to actually do the mechanics without organising it in advance. The only way I got it done was being around right after they added it as a req for a collection, it had already died before they last did that too.

Edit: to add to what I already put, pinata is a destination event almost totally because of the chance at an infusion, and the daily gem. Remove both these rewards, and add a kittenton more difficulty and mechanics, and why *would* anyone bother. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Emberfoot.6847

[Khisanth.2948]

16 minutes ago, Emberfoot.6847 said:

Edit: to add to what I already put, pinata is a destination event almost totally because of the chance at an infusion, and the daily gem. Remove both these rewards, and add a kittenton more difficulty and mechanics, and why *would* anyone bother. 

The coins are also used for exclusive items so even if you remove those it still has better rewards or at least better reasons to repeat the content than SI

[Lottie.5370]

This is definitely one of the most annoying metas I have ever completed, it feels like it's really easy to fail if people don't understand what to do, and there is no reason to go back there once you finish it for the achievement (or if it's part of any collection).

 

Even giving it better rewards would not make me want to complete it again, it could use some QoL changes.

[Malus.2184]

The major issue about Serpent's Ire is that is scales to completely stupid levels. The bosses have way too much health base and the last 20% is an invul phase every 5%.

The meta is boring, the difficulty is in that everything is annoying instead of it actually being difficult. People can deal with difficult and prefer something they have to engage with towards doing. What people have a problem with is when something is boring and/or annoying, then people just tune out.

Studies have been done on this. A group of students had a classroom that was designed to be peak interesting, however they were always in that. Another class had a boring classrom, however they were rotated to another boring classroom every-so-often.

The latter was able to work harder and better than the former.

[SolarDragon.7063]

On 5/29/2022 at 9:49 PM, Malus.2184 said:

The major issue about Serpent's Ire is that is scales to completely stupid levels. The bosses have way too much health base and the last 20% is an invul phase every 5%.

The meta is boring, the difficulty is in that everything is annoying instead of it actually being difficult. People can deal with difficult and prefer something they have to engage with towards doing. What people have a problem with is when something is boring and/or annoying, then people just tune out.

Studies have been done on this. A group of students had a classroom that was designed to be peak interesting, however they were always in that. Another class had a boring classrom, however they were rotated to another boring classroom every-so-often.

The latter was able to work harder and better than the former.

Yeah, it's definitely part of the frustration that you just spend half your time staring at "miss miss miss", and then for absolutely minimal rewards on top. It's not the fun kind of difficulty.

[mythical.6315]

It needs to either have better rewards or to have its content cut back. Currently it requires a lot more work and time compared to the other meta on the map. As ArenaNet doesn’t have a good track record with rewarding content, the latter option would probably be better overall. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by mythical.6315

[b k.1648]

I'd like to see better rewards e.g. Tequatl for it. It's an interesting meta, just not actually worth doing. If it was somewhere you could regularly get ascended gear and/or significant high-level crafting materials, I'd go there.

[Nilkemia.8507]

The only thing Serpent's Ire needs is to be deleted and the collections gated behind it reallocated to more reasonable content.

 

And yes, I am at least halfway serious in that statement. This meta is overly tedious/difficult for too little reward, and most glaringly of all, it doesn't even have a reason to exist like most if not all other metas do. The snakes aren't even doing anything, the meta demands you make them mad enough to come out, and even then you have to go hunt them down. If they were trying to expand the Branded area or doing something to mess up the zone further, that'd be something, but no.

 

If you want a serious answer that doesn't involve deletion, well...the zealots need to either not have their ley-line/bounty abilities if they'll be hidden, or have them but be visible on the map/mini-map when found. It would also help if they weren't in an area that kills you slowly just by being in it unless you're on a skimmer, which potentially means this meta can fail just by one of the snake zealots not being near any of the shield djinns in the area or staying away from them.

 

Can't remember enough of the second part to give anything towards that, but I'm sure something's been said already. Barring any of that, just get rid of this meta or put the collections behind something else and let it die.

[Bunny.9834]

Do people do this meta? 

I'm stuck trying to do a collection because absolutely nobody is doing it. 

I tried creating my own squad and LFG and nothing. 

🧐

[Labjax.2465]

For starters, the brandstorm mechanic should have a mastery that makes you immune to it (or at the very least, allow you to get a temporary barrier from djinn shields like the barrier shrines in Bjora Marches - still wouldn't like it, but way better than what it is now). It would make working with maps like this one and Jahai Bluffs so much more enjoyable in the long-term and would fit perfectly with the theme of the mastery system.

I can personally attest that I find that mechanic alone really really annoying and it makes me want to spend no time in any map that has it because I just start associating the whole map with that mechanic, even if it's only a small portion of it that has it.

I think the rewards def need buffing too, but until the pain points are addressed, I'm not sure people would do it more with buffed rewards since it already has a reputation for being so awful.

[jamesg.7128]

7 hours ago, Bunny.9834 said:

Do people do this meta? 

I'm stuck trying to do a collection because absolutely nobody is doing it. 

I tried creating my own squad and LFG and nothing. 

🧐

Yes, I did it a couple of weeks ago for the golem collection IG-whatever. However, it did take a few days of checking the map daily every few hours to find enough people to do it. I heard some NA guild also does it weekly on Friday nights. The map is also populated on the Vabbi bounty daily rotation.

[SolarDragon.7063]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:20 AM, Labjax.2465 said:

For starters, the brandstorm mechanic should have a mastery that makes you immune to it (or at the very least, allow you to get a temporary barrier from djinn shields like the barrier shrines in Bjora Marches - still wouldn't like it, but way better than what it is now). It would make working with maps like this one and Jahai Bluffs so much more enjoyable in the long-term and would fit perfectly with the theme of the mastery system.

I can personally attest that I find that mechanic alone really really annoying and it makes me want to spend no time in any map that has it because I just start associating the whole map with that mechanic, even if it's only a small portion of it that has it.

I think the rewards def need buffing too, but until the pain points are addressed, I'm not sure people would do it more with buffed rewards since it already has a reputation for being so awful.

If you sit on a skimmer or flying mount, you're "immune" to it while travelling, and I don't hate it making combat more challenging.

I think buffing rewards would at least get people's curiosity up, and I imagine there are a lot of people sitting round staring at the collections involving it that would jump on the logic of "better rewards mean I can find people doing it so I'm going to go do it" which would have a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy result. In this case, a self-fulfilling prophecy would be good!

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, SolarDragon.7063 said:

If you sit on a skimmer or flying mount, you're "immune" to it while travelling

Travelling only. It's no issue if the fight is to take place near safe spot, but if that's not the case, it becomes a major problem.

4 hours ago, SolarDragon.7063 said:

, and I don't hate it making combat more challenging.

I don't hate it either. Still, i do dislike it, and consider it way too limiting. In the long run, i don;t see the point - i won;t engage enemies on brand in the same way i would not go into fractals without sufficient agony resistance. To me, both are just an unnecessary annoyance.

4 hours ago, SolarDragon.7063 said:

I think buffing rewards would at least get people's curiosity up

They buffed the rewards once before. People got their curiosity up, came, saw that the event is as annoying as ever, and left.

4 hours ago, SolarDragon.7063 said:

, and I imagine there are a lot of people sitting round staring at the collections involving it that would jump on the logic of "better rewards mean I can find people doing it so I'm going to go do it" which would have a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy result. In this case, a self-fulfilling prophecy would be good!

If lack of players was the only issue, there would be no problem at all. In the end however the event usually doesn't get done even when there's enough players present on map - like during vabbi dailies. The rewards would have to be truly massive for people to change their mind.

[Ashantara.8731]

I like the meta the way it is. What should be changed is the PoF event times, which overlap, forcing players to choose (and of course they will choose the one they consider "less of a hassle").

[Debesyla.7102]

Anet could just plonk another rare infusion as drop from this meta and at least the people problem would be solved... :V 

[jamesg.7128]

I'd be happy if they just put area markers for the zealots. Since few people do it these days knowing the approximate area they'll spawn in will improve accessibility.

[LSD.4673]

On 8/10/2022 at 7:20 PM, Labjax.2465 said:

For starters, the brandstorm mechanic should have a mastery that makes you immune to it (or at the very least, allow you to get a temporary barrier from djinn shields like the barrier shrines in Bjora Marches - still wouldn't like it, but way better than what it is now). It would make working with maps like this one and Jahai Bluffs so much more enjoyable in the long-term and would fit perfectly with the theme of the mastery system.

 

There's a weird buff from the friendly djinn in Sun's Refuge that does...nothing. But i think that was supposed to offer some kind of brand protection. They should just do that. Brand damage is just annoying. Spamming the mount key waiting for the condi to dissipate and the ooc timer to tick over is silly.

[Inari Kamihara.6908]

One thing they could do is decouple the Choice Chests for Desolation and Domain Of Vabbi so that people would have incentive to do more than one meta rather than just doing the easy one. Serpent's Ire isn't even hard anymore, especially since you can place a Waystation at each of the 5 champions and have even just a small group blowing up their defiance bars.

 

But then they'd maybe have to acknowledge the issues with Maws Of Torment being undoable without Skyscale cheese.

[draxynnic.3719]

5 hours ago, Inari Kamihara.6908 said:

One thing they could do is decouple the Choice Chests for Desolation and Domain Of Vabbi so that people would have incentive to do more than one meta rather than just doing the easy one. Serpent's Ire isn't even hard anymore, especially since you can place a Waystation at each of the 5 champions and have even just a small group blowing up their defiance bars.

 

But then they'd maybe have to acknowledge the issues with Maws Of Torment being undoable without Skyscale cheese.

Another thing that could help is to make Serpent's Ire be a daily so that every so often there's a day when the Serpent's Ire daily comes up in the rotation and everyone has added incentive to do it on that day. At the moment we have that on hounds, which is a bit weird since people are usually happy to do hounds pretty much every day, and it's doable with pretty small groups (I've done it soloing up to the point of the hounds being released and then having 2-3 people show up to help with hounds. Pretty sure you could do it solo if you really wanted to and had a good build), so there's not really a need to encourage people to do it on a particular day.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

All Path of Fire metas are in a sad state, some are even worse than Central Tyria metas. I really, really wish ArenaNet would revise their policy of not updating old content. I thought they were going along this line with reintroducing LWS1 and the NPE, but it seems they don't intend to get "too far into it".