Shikigami.4013 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 (edited) It seems that I answered to a post which was subsequently removed (I am not surprised as that post accused ArenaNet of a practice punishable by law). As my post was lost because of the two lines of the offending post being quoted (I should probably avoid quoting stuff like that in the future) I'll state it here again in short form. The expansions are unlocking every content in the game. UNLOCKING does not equal PROVIDING. The purchase of the expansions unlocks EVERYTHING the game has to offer. Many things have to be bought in the game to use them, like additional bag slots, bank slots, character slots etc. Others have to be earned by completing achievements, sometimes taking many days (hello legendary trinkets, hello Skyscale). Some even want you to complete multiple achievements AND pay for them in addition, like the Griffon. Yet others are earned by gaining XP to level a mastery, or by completing certain story steps. The living world episodes are no different. They are content episodes that are unlocked with the purchase of the expansions but still need to be earned by buying them ingame. Edited June 8, 2022 by Shikigami.4013 2 3 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 This keeps coming up because ANet's advertising about the XPac's neglects to inform potential buyers that there will be an additional cost for the "between" DLC but it does say, "everything you need..." By definition new customers were not around during either the release period of those episodes or during the return to rerelease. So, they had no opportunity for the free unlock. They also will not know there will be a hidden cost unless a friend tells them or they do exhaustive research. Therefore this will affect many, if not most, of any new customers coming to the franchise. This issue will NOT play well on Steam. This issue will impact your Steam revenue. Once you get bad reviews, there, you're stuck with them. Come on, bite the bullet, fix this. You don't need to change your policy, just change the bloody info to fully disclose that there will be an additional cost for "everything you need to experience the story of Tyria." 2 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard.8150 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, IndigoSundown.5419 said: This keeps coming up because ANet's advertising about the XPac's neglects to inform potential buyers that there will be an additional cost for the "between" DLC but it does say, "everything you need..." By definition new customers were not around during either the release period of those episodes or during the return to rerelease. So, they had no opportunity for the free unlock. They also will not know there will be a hidden cost unless a friend tells them or they do exhaustive research. Therefore this will affect many, if not most, of any new customers coming to the franchise. This issue will NOT play well on Steam. This issue will impact your Steam revenue. Once you get bad reviews, there, you're stuck with them. Come on, bite the bullet, fix this. You don't need to change your policy, just change the bloody info to fully disclose that there will be an additional cost for "everything you need to experience the story of Tyria." People still pay attention to Steam reviews after the Skyrim debacle? You know, where they review bombed Vanilla Skyrim over the Creation Club, and you can't even access the Creation Club with Vanilla Skyrim, you at least need the Special Edition. I treat reviews there the same way I do MetaCritic, I ignore them. What I don't understand is why people continue to act as if Steam players don't know about games that aren't on Steam... 3 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue D Phoenix.7260 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Idk why but it feels a bit entitled, LW has same work done like expansions. We are lucky they give it for free during an episodes release and even they give it for free during some event. You don't have to buy all episodes, just buy the ones that's worth it. Lws4 is the one I would say to go for. The rest is meh. 1 1 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1508 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Linken.6345 said: No it is every 5k. Abit harder to gain ap when you are above 25k so it just feels like you never get the gems. I'm at 13.3k and its still super hard as hell to level up, that's over 9 years. 11 hours ago, Shikigami.4013 said: It seems that I answered to a post which was subsequently removed (I am not surprised as that post accused ArenaNet of a practice punishable by law). As my post was lost because of the two lines of the offending post being quoted (I should probably avoid quoting stuff like that in the future) I'll state it here again in short form. The expansions are unlocking every content in the game. UNLOCKING does not equal PROVIDING. The purchase of the expansions unlocks EVERYTHING the game has to offer. Many things have to be bought in the game to use them, like additional bag slots, bank slots, character slots etc. Others have to be earned by completing achievements, sometimes taking many days (hello legendary trinkets, hello Skyscale). Some even want you to complete multiple achievements AND pay for them in addition, like the Griffon. Yet others are earned by gaining XP to level a mastery, or by completing certain story steps. The living world episodes are no different. They are content episodes that are unlocked with the purchase of the expansions but still need to be earned by buying them ingame. You do not unlock living worlds by buying expansions you must buy them as a secondary, waiting on gold to gems or free gems would take someone years to see the living stories free.. 15 hours ago, Shikigami.4013 said: Like everything else, play the game and get the gold, convert the gold to the needed amount of gems. Every single thing that exists in the game can be earned without real money after you bought the expansion that the content is in. So never then ok.. Sure a new player will be able to do that.. Edited June 9, 2022 by Dante.1508 2 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanfrano.1325 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) I'm surprised at the number of players defending this but again we live in quite an... interesting era. Anet should change the wording and be more clear or bundle LW with expansions, period. No need for debate or anything as the practice is dishonest and misleading. Edited June 9, 2022 by vanfrano.1325 6 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard.8150 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 38 minutes ago, vanfrano.1325 said: I'm surprised at the number of players defending this but again we live in quite an... interesting era. Anet should change the wording and be more clear or bundle LW with expansions, period. No need for debate or anything as the practice is dishonest and misleading. Because it's not? No where does it state that you'll get the LW seasons in any of the packages. "But new players will take forever to get them with gold to gems"... I see that a lot, but it didn't take me 6 months to purchase LW 2 and 3. I was here for 4+, so I got that for free. Maybe it's just because I have a Steam account, but I sure hate the implication that Steam players are too stupid to read what's in a package before they buy it... 3 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shikigami.4013 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dante.1508 said: You do not unlock living worlds by buying expansions you must buy them as a secondary, waiting on gold to gems or free gems would take someone years to see the living stories free.. Unlock means you make the content available. The episodes are content that is bought. When you dont have the corresponding expansions you CAN NOT play them. When they are unlocked, you can play them (of course after you bought them). It is exactly the same as ALL other content in the expansion that will be unlocked by purchasing the expansion and then earned in the game, which is what I described in detail. Like you unlock MOUNTS by purchasing the expansion, but then you have to work for them in game and partly even buy them for a lot of gold (Griffon costs 250g). Just because the purchase of Path of Fire unlocked mounts for you does not entitle you to use mounts without earning/paying for them, and likewise the unlocking of the living world episodes does not entitle you to play them without paying for them. Why is this such a difficult concept, I really don't get it. Why do so many people feel entitled to play the episodes that have to be purchased for free, but nobody feels entitled to get the griffon for free despite mounts also being "unlocked". Edited June 9, 2022 by Shikigami.4013 2 2 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentMoore.9453 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 1 hour ago, vanfrano.1325 said: I'm surprised at the number of players defending this I don't think its surprising given what the forum is usually like, but it's disappointing for sure. Clear packaging of GW2 and its DLCs is better for everyone, so I'm not sure why some are fighting so hard against it. 1 hour ago, vanfrano.1325 said: the practice is dishonest and misleading. It absolutely is. You don't sell a 'complete' edition that's missing half the game and then wonder why new customers are confused and annoyed by the deception. It's fine if they want to charge for LW, but they need to be up front about its existence and what it costs at time of purchase. 1 hour ago, robertthebard.8150 said: No where does it state that you'll get the LW seasons in any of the packages. Seems you've identified the entire problem. Not only is the 'complete' package not complete, it doesn't even make mention of the other things you'll need to buy after you pick up the game and its expansions. This is deceptive marketing and a lie of omission, giving new players the impression that they're buying the entire game when in fact they aren't. This is unacceptable. 4 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 1 hour ago, AgentMoore.9453 said: Clear packaging of GW2 and its DLCs is better for everyone, so I'm not sure why some are fighting so hard against it. This is a nice example of a retreat to the motte. Side 1 (bailey): "Give us LWS with expansion, it shouldn't cost more money!" Side 2: "It's DLC, not part of the expansion." Side 1 (motte): "How can you be against clear descriptions!?" Not saying Side 2 doesn't also do a bit of this, just pointing out that some claims are not part of the same conversations. 1 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 3 hours ago, robertthebard.8150 said: Because it's not? No where does it state that you'll get the LW seasons in any of the packages. "But new players will take forever to get them with gold to gems"... I see that a lot, but it didn't take me 6 months to purchase LW 2 and 3. I was here for 4+, so I got that for free. Maybe it's just because I have a Steam account, but I sure hate the implication that Steam players are too stupid to read what's in a package before they buy it... You're right that it doesn't state that you'll get LW seasons. The problem is the website as a whole (not just the shop page) doesn't make it clear they exist as a separate purchase at all. There are mentions of the Living World on the website, but only in terms of it being an on-going story and some stuff describing how dynamic events work. There's absolutely no mention I can find that it's additional paid content, so unless you're an existing player who already knows how it works it's very easy to miss that fact. Which means when you see the collection of 3 expansions saying it includes "everything you need to experience Tyria" it's very easy to assume that means all the paid content and 'the story' will be part of that. In simple terms the problem isn't what the website does say but what it doesn't say. A simple mention somewhere hard to miss that there is additional paid content in addition to the expansions would go a long way towards clarifying this and avoiding angry newbies who thought they'd paid for the entire game and then find they're being asked for even more money to access 'the story'. Personally I think going a step further and including a pack which sells everything together would be better for 2 reasons: 1) It's almost impossible to miss when buying the game (because the option will be right there next to the other packs) while being otherwise less obtrusive than putting adverts for LW seasons all over the website like some MMOs do for their DLC. 2) A lot of people who complain about buying the LW separately are not annoyed at the existence of paid content for an MMO or the price but because they wanted to (and thought they had) bought all the content in the game in 1 single purchase and this would allow them to do that. 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 5 hours ago, Dante.1508 said: So never then ok.. Sure a new player will be able to do that.. Sure, a new player will need every LS chapter unlocked right at the start. 🙄 2 2 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 7 hours ago, Dante.1508 said: I'm at 13.3k and its still super hard as hell to level up, that's over 9 years. You do not unlock living worlds by buying expansions you must buy them as a secondary, waiting on gold to gems or free gems would take someone years to see the living stories free.. So never then ok.. Sure a new player will be able to do that.. I played the same as you bought gems once and got around 21k gold and 39k ap so yea people can get it for gold to gem exchange. 1 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 On 6/6/2022 at 7:42 PM, Tchuvan.4251 said: I am sure this has been voice numerous times, but I just want to reiterate as a new player: the paywall to unlock the Living World content is complete @#$%@#$%. I just dropped $75 thinking I unlocked all content in this game, got to Lv 80, played Living World Season 1, and then found out that Season 2 was behind a paywall. Learned the rest were too. Look, this company needs to be up front with the costs to play it. I'm not talking about side stuff that isn't necessary like trinkets or quality of life stuff. I'm talking about CORE STORYLINE content. I'm gonna be honest, had I known this would have cost more on top of the $75 already, I wouldn't have bought the game. Even the $75 was pushing my budget. Now I am stuck either forking over even more money or watching a YouTube video? Who watches YouTube videos instead of playing the story? Just feeling a bit deceived. No other game handles expansions/new content like this, and certainly not for THE CORE STORYLINE!! Example… Ultimate Collection for all xpacs plus 4,000 gems is $100. Cost of season 2-Icebrood is 4,160 gems. Cost to you would be 160 gems, which you can get for free by exchanging gold to gems. …… Unfortunately, “core storyline” and living world updates are not the same thing. You’ll need to separate the two. Also, brining up your budget is meaningless to the argument. The game doesn’t run on free and goodwill, so Anet uses micro transactions in exchange for a monthly user fee to fund the game, run a business, pay employees… 2 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuks.8241 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 5 hours ago, Shikigami.4013 said: Unlock means you make the content available. The episodes are content that is bought. When you dont have the corresponding expansions you CAN NOT play them. When they are unlocked, you can play them (of course after you bought them). It is exactly the same as ALL other content in the expansion that will be unlocked by purchasing the expansion and then earned in the game, which is what I described in detail. Like you unlock MOUNTS by purchasing the expansion, but then you have to work for them in game and partly even buy them for a lot of gold (Griffon costs 250g). Just because the purchase of Path of Fire unlocked mounts for you does not entitle you to use mounts without earning/paying for them, and likewise the unlocking of the living world episodes does not entitle you to play them without paying for them. Why is this such a difficult concept, I really don't get it. Why do so many people feel entitled to play the episodes that have to be purchased for free, but nobody feels entitled to get the griffon for free despite mounts also being "unlocked". Sure lets wrap this up in semantics. Great advertising. That explanation will go a long way when players need to open up wallets. The whole thing is not transparent. It wasnt transparent to me when I bought the game. I thought I have everything. When I discovered I need to buy LS2 and 3 I did feel a bit cheated. I didnt do research in advance because there was no inclination at the time and point of purchase. If I need to go through the fine print and external sources to actually find out what is the full package and how much it costs its shady business. 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 3 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said: You're right that it doesn't state that you'll get LW seasons. The problem is the website as a whole (not just the shop page) doesn't make it clear they exist as a separate purchase at all. There are mentions of the Living World on the website, but only in terms of it being an on-going story and some stuff describing how dynamic events work. There's absolutely no mention I can find that it's additional paid content, so unless you're an existing player who already knows how it works it's very easy to miss that fact. Which means when you see the collection of 3 expansions saying it includes "everything you need to experience Tyria" it's very easy to assume that means all the paid content and 'the story' will be part of that. In simple terms the problem isn't what the website does say but what it doesn't say. A simple mention somewhere hard to miss that there is additional paid content in addition to the expansions would go a long way towards clarifying this and avoiding angry newbies who thought they'd paid for the entire game and then find they're being asked for even more money to access 'the story'. Personally I think going a step further and including a pack which sells everything together would be better for 2 reasons: 1) It's almost impossible to miss when buying the game (because the option will be right there next to the other packs) while being otherwise less obtrusive than putting adverts for LW seasons all over the website like some MMOs do for their DLC. 2) A lot of people who complain about buying the LW separately are not annoyed at the existence of paid content for an MMO or the price but because they wanted to (and thought they had) bought all the content in the game in 1 single purchase and this would allow them to do that. Right on the site, when purchasing an expansion(s), there is a list of additional purchases: one being Living World Season Two. Pretty much indicates that there are other 'dlcs'/content available. Not sure why so many poster claim there is nothing on the site about purchasing any Living World content. Also, prior to pre-purchasing End of Dragons while The Icebrood Saga (and all previous Living World Seasons) was active, there was information included in the description of expansion(s) about the Living World and how only the current Episode was included. I'm guessing once Living World (sans Season One) starts up again, that information will once again be included. 1 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DexterousGecko.6328 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 I can't wait to see the steam forums when new players start to realize how the living world seasons work lol. "it's simple, why is it hard to understand?? stop being entitled." won't mean much then. 1 2 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuks.8241 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 I did check the purchase site and it does have in game items now. It wasn't like that when I bought the game. But I see only LS2 and its under in game items. I dont consider story and maps as in game items but ok. What I would suggest. Add LS chapters under "games" section, not under "in game items". Just bundle all LS in 1 package if its to much. Add ultimate edition for 60 EUR and clearly state it includes all LS. Or make section DLCs and clearly show all LS there. Oh and just make LS2 free if you buy any of the expansions. That thing is not worth 16eur and players dont need to buy any DLCs up to the end of Hot. 1 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard.8150 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, DexterousGecko.6328 said: I can't wait to see the steam forums when new players start to realize how the living world seasons work lol. "it's simple, why is it hard to understand?? stop being entitled." won't mean much then. Maybe not, but "Why didn't you read the information provided when you made your purchase?" will, right? So, people are asking for information to be provided, that is provided when you make the purchase, according to the post right above yours. What that tells me is that people are just clicking through their purchases, which is fine, I do the same thing, and don't realize that the information they feel isn't provided actually is provided. I'm not against editing the page to indicate the need to purchase the LW seasons. I'm against the intellectual dishonesty of claiming that someone is somehow being ripped off from the lack of it. As an example, how many times did I rage quit because I didn't get to play LW S1, and had to buy seasons 2 and 3? The correct answer is 0. Guess what; I have a Steam account... 2 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 4 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said: This is a nice example of a retreat to the motte. Side 1 (bailey): "Give us LWS with expansion, it shouldn't cost more money!" Side 2: "It's DLC, not part of the expansion." Side 1 (motte): "How can you be against clear descriptions!?" Not saying Side 2 doesn't also do a bit of this, just pointing out that some claims are not part of the same conversations. Except that the position about clear description predates the "side 2," you describe. I guess you could say that there are 3 sides then, but what you describe as side 2 is the last of the three positions to come into play here. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard.8150 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said: Except that the position about clear description predates the "side 2," you describe. I guess you could say that there are 3 sides then, but what you describe as side 2 is the last of the three positions to come into play here. ...and yet, when I ask "What is it that you didn't get that was listed on the page", I just get some confused emojis. I guess because "Well, everything that was listed was delivered" doesn't fit into "I was ripped off"? 1 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blude.6812 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) If only Anet would communicate and/or make an easy change to describe what is included and not included when purchasing. Seems to me it is a simple and easy change if they cared to make the changes. Edited June 9, 2022 by Blude.6812 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuks.8241 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 11 minutes ago, robertthebard.8150 said: Maybe not, but "Why didn't you read the information provided when you made your purchase?" will, right? So, people are asking for information to be provided, that is provided when you make the purchase, according to the post right above yours. What that tells me is that people are just clicking through their purchases, which is fine, I do the same thing, and don't realize that the information they feel isn't provided actually is provided. I'm not against editing the page to indicate the need to purchase the LW seasons. I'm against the intellectual dishonesty of claiming that someone is somehow being ripped off from the lack of it. As an example, how many times did I rage quit because I didn't get to play LW S1, and had to buy seasons 2 and 3? The correct answer is 0. Guess what; I have a Steam account... The post above is my post. I just acknowledged that a LS2 can be found on the site now compared to the time I purchased it. So at least LS is mentioned but nothing is explained. It is far from transparent. And "Get everything you need to experience Tyria, a vast living world. This collection includes Guild Wars 2 and all its expansions..." under Collection is still very miss leading and just false. Here we can start talking semantics again. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Just now, Blude.6812 said: But then again maybe they just don't care. This should be more than evident due to the many previous threads on exactly this topic and nothing has changed. Why this needed to be re-hashed every few months is beyond me. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virdo.1540 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Living World Chapters are free for a while if you manage to login when they come out. All were free with the Return-Achievements aswell. But overall its not really a lot if considering you can simply convert your gold to gems for LVS. PLUS sometimes they are on discout aswell. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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