Mystic Coin acquisition

[Labjax.2465]

17 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

It’s actually exactly what you want. 

Ah yes, the part where people try to gaslight me and insist they know my own mind better than me.

You know, one of these times I'm just going to stop logging into these forums and find way better things to do with my time than trying to communicate pain points only to get harassed, and you all can argue with each other until your fingers give out.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Ah yes, the part where people try to gaslight me and insist they know my own mind better than me.

You know, one of these times I'm just going to stop logging into these forums and find way better things to do with my time than trying to communicate pain points only to get harassed, and you all can argue with each other until your fingers give out.

A better thing to do with your time is pretty much go outside and take a walk.

[Danikat.8537]

I don't see why it's a problem to get them from login rewards or buy them. Making a legendary is either going to be a long process (if you gather as much as possible yourself) or an expensive one if you buy the necessary materials, or a mix of both. If you're trying to gather as much as possible yourself then you'll have plenty of time while doing that to save up mystic coins.

I've made 4 legendary weapons (and a backpack but that's a different process) and as far as I remember I haven't had to buy mystic coins for any of them, because it's always taken me at least 6 months to get everything else done so I had plenty of time to get them from login rewards and other places they drop.

(I could claim my next one is only going to take me a few weeks after I start, but that's because I've been holding onto materials I know I'll need if I make another legendary for about a year now and just telling myself I'm not committing to anything. The truth is I won't be able to say how long it took.)

[godfat.2604]

I understand it’s not players’ responsibilities to provide solutions, especially that players often can’t give good solutions without being able to access the data needed to analyze the issues better.

However in this case it’s quite easy to link that adding a new way to farm it = lower the market price. Of course that’s how market works, right? More supplies and the same demands always translates to lowering the price. If lowering the price isn’t the intention, it’s better to explain how to resolve that, even when it’s just giving a direction. Raising the demands at the same time can be an idea.

Given my experience, I think the ideal price for a mystic coin is around 1g. Before the announcement of the materials needed for the 3rd generation legendary weapons (I’ll call them 3rd gen following up), the price was around 2g, and I believe that’s way too expensive. My theory for that was a lot of people were guessing that the 3rd gen also requires a stack of mystic coins, and probably also 77 mystic clovers, which means the demands will raise significantly again after the release of 3rd generation. Under this prediction, people started to hoard piles of piles of mystic coins, reducing supplies and raising the demands at the same time (investments!).

I believe the mental prices for the hoarders were around 2g, thus whenever it dropped below 2g, hoarders bought them, and whenever it raised more than 2.4g, hoarders sold them (keep in mind with the 15% tax). However, when Anet announced that 3rd gen didn’t need a lot of mystic coins, or people actually saw that in the game, the price crashed hard because hoarders knew that demands would be low, and the price can’t hold, hoarders were selling them like crazy and now the price dropped under 1g, floating around 72s to 80s now. Of course, moving mystic coins rewards from Fractal to Strikes also played a role here, but let’s not make this too complicated and ignore it for now.

What I wanted to say is, mystic coins are tradable, and anything tradable we need to consider the economic behind it. Touching supplies and demands will be highly sensitive for mystic coins because it’s scarce. If you want to increase supplies, and don’t want to touch the price too much, a few options will be:

* Make the new supplies also very scarce, so it’s not enough to affect the market. How? You probably can’t really farm it and still need to buy them off trading post. If it’s profitable, the price must drop so this can’t really be profitable

* Increase the demands for the same time. How? I don’t know, maybe the next 3rd gen skin can use some mystic coins, or mystic clovers?

My point is, “how” is extremely important in this request because otherwise it really looks like it’s just asking to lower the price after all. Or maybe a 3rd option can be introducing account bound mystic coins… so they won’t increase the supplies even though that would still certainly reduce the demands, also lowering the price. It’s complicated.

 

[Luthan.5236]

I think there actually are enough ways. And they even got pretty cheap on the trading post. There is other stuff wherey you might need the trading post as well - cause farming for yourself only might be too tedious. + you don't make legendaries every day.

So I'd say it is not a big issue - no changes needed because one or another player does not like it.

A good example of a similar design are the recently (with EoD  release - for some people these few months might not be "recently" anymore) added summoning stones. And the other stuff - like the Chunk of Ambergris. Hard to farm as well.

The trading post is meant to balance this. It is meant to be used - by design. Once a lot of players buy ... the price will go up. Being more incentive for example for new players to sell their stuff. Coins from daily rewards when they do not need legendaries yet.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Labjax.2465]

31 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

A better thing to do with your time is pretty much go outside and take a walk.

Virtually anything is a better use of my time and that goes for anyone sharing feedback on here. I'm writing stuff for people who almost certainly won't read it, to be bothered by people who don't want to hear it. And in that sense, I'm not sure what these forums are even for. So many people are so hostile or contrarian to everything it's difficult to have any kind of meaningful discussion about anything. Some people can't seem to manage saying "I disagree and I'd prefer this" without turning it into a crusade. Finding agreement is so uncommon for me on here, I'm actually surprised, like wow, that really happened. But I could easily look past having unpopular takes if people just disagreed with my views on the game. It's the attitudes that go with it and it's definitely not just me who is on the receiving end of it. I see it in just about every thread posted by anybody in general discussion and sometimes other sections too.

I honestly don't know why I bother. It's like I'm just posting on auto-pilot, thinking it'll be different this time and it never is. Really what is the point. I don't know what some of the people on here even want. It's like they just want to cut somebody down. I don't understand how this can possibly be the kind of environment Anet wants.

Anyway, respect to those who actually disagree respectfully. I think the only way I can continue to post here in good sense is if I just put everyone who doesn't on ignore going forward, but really that's just going to hide half of general discussion and only fix the problem for me.

[godfat.2604]

22 minutes ago, godfat.2604 said:

Or maybe a 3rd option can be introducing account bound mystic coins… so they won’t increase the supplies even though that would still certainly reduce the demands, also lowering the price. It’s complicated.

Another idea similar to this: Increase supplies for mystic clovers, which are account bound, and provide a way to break it back to mystic coins, in a bad ratio so it’ll not generate too many mystic coins or create a vicious circle that one can convert them back and forth to profit.

[Astralporing.1957]

5 minutes ago, godfat.2604 said:

Another idea similar to this: Increase supplies for mystic clovers, which are account bound, and provide a way to break it back to mystic coins, in a bad ratio so it’ll not generate too many mystic coins or create a vicious circle that one can convert them back and forth to profit.

If anything, just increase supplies for clovers (and not by much, just slightly), without the exchange to MC. A large part of MC usage is exactly the clover production, so just adding a few clover sources would decrease demand for MCs.

Of course, that would also affect MC prices, which are already at the point where any additional factor can send them on another slide down.

[godfat.2604]

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If anything, just increase supplies for clovers (and not by much, just slightly), without the exchange to MC. A large part of MC usage is exactly the clover production, so just adding a few clover sources would decrease demand for MCs.

Of course, that would also affect MC prices, which are already at the point where any additional factor can send them on another slide down.

I agree. My ideal price for mystic coins is 1g, and it’s apparently already too cheap right now. Perhaps some new mystic forge skins requiring a stack of mystic coins along with this change will be nice.

[Labjax.2465]

 

9 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If anything, just increase supplies for clovers (and not by much, just slightly), without the exchange to MC. A large part of MC usage is exactly the clover production, so just adding a few clover sources would decrease demand for MCs.

Of course, that would also affect MC prices, which are already at the point where any additional factor can send them on another slide down.

 

3 minutes ago, godfat.2604 said:

I agree. My ideal price for mystic coins is 1g, and it’s apparently already too cheap right now. Perhaps some new mystic forge skins requiring a stack of mystic coins along with this change will be nice.

Since y'all are talking about it I will just say: if I were to look at this from a design solution standpoint, I think the most straightforward answer has to do with demand and "new skins" is on this track. If there were more organic ways to get them, but there were also more sinks for them, in particular for items that veteran players would want who already have the older stuff, you can balance it out without greatly impacting coin prices. I don't know if Anet still has an economist on staff, but I'd guess they were doing number crunching like this a lot. Of course that's assuming Anet really cares about where coin prices are and whether they have a specific range they generally want them to be in.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

there is actually no point in how to fix MC as they are utterly broken beyond since they have been made mandatory for SO MANY THINGS.

MCs were basically worthless up until a certain update ranging around a silver or less. and the the only who kept them or bought them during that time got the best out of it. there is one player who had his entire bank full with 250 stacks of MCs, he literally NEVER has to worry about gold every again.

[Voltekka.2375]

Remember when mcs used to cost 2+g not so long ago?

 

Pepperidge farm remembers

[Gibson.4036]

2 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Virtually anything is a better use of my time and that goes for anyone sharing feedback on here. I'm writing stuff for people who almost certainly won't read it, to be bothered by people who don't want to hear it. And in that sense, I'm not sure what these forums are even for. So many people are so hostile or contrarian to everything it's difficult to have any kind of meaningful discussion about anything. Some people can't seem to manage saying "I disagree and I'd prefer this" without turning it into a crusade. Finding agreement is so uncommon for me on here, I'm actually surprised, like wow, that really happened. But I could easily look past having unpopular takes if people just disagreed with my views on the game. It's the attitudes that go with it and it's definitely not just me who is on the receiving end of it. I see it in just about every thread posted by anybody in general discussion and sometimes other sections too.

I honestly don't know why I bother. It's like I'm just posting on auto-pilot, thinking it'll be different this time and it never is. Really what is the point. I don't know what some of the people on here even want. It's like they just want to cut somebody down. I don't understand how this can possibly be the kind of environment Anet wants.

Anyway, respect to those who actually disagree respectfully. I think the only way I can continue to post here in good sense is if I just put everyone who doesn't on ignore going forward, but really that's just going to hide half of general discussion and only fix the problem for me.

I’ve found it only took blocking a tiny amount of people to vastly improve the forums for me.

Yes, there are plenty of nitpickers and crusaders, Ive probably fallen into that myself. But once you block just a handful who regularly tell you you’re saying things you’re not, won’t let an argument drop, and generally harass every thread they’re in, you might be amazed at how small your block list needs to be.

May be worth a try. YMMV

I have two total people ignored, and it’s like night and day.

[mythical.6315]

7 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Ah yes, the part where people try to gaslight me and insist they know my own mind better than me.

You know, one of these times I'm just going to stop logging into these forums and find way better things to do with my time than trying to communicate pain points only to get harassed, and you all can argue with each other until your fingers give out.

When you give them another source, especially one that isn’t timegated, they become easier to get. 

They’re now 70 silver each which is a large drop from the 2+ gold at the beginning of the year. The price may continue to drop. As far as how acquiring them, players can obtain at least 88 a month. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by mythical.6315

[Cuks.8241]

I think Anet doesnt want MCs and MCs to be farmable. They are like a baseline time gate for legendary acquisition. Craft legendaries at a certain pace, you wont even notice them. Want to get them faster? Cough up some serious gold.

Anyway I am crafting my legendaries at the MC pace so I never really care about them. I'm still behind the curve with other materials which I need to buy.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

Over a 28 day period you can get 20 from daily logins, 28 from Anomaly, 40 from Green Shards, that's 88 a month guaranteed, on top of that you can get them from Fractals, the occasional Daily Mystic Forger, plus you can buy them for 70 silver a piece on TP., getting them isn't a problem anymore.

[Khisanth.2948]

14 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

it absolutely is realistic to acquire them over time through play here and there.

ANet's original proposition even before the game's release was you either spend time or you spend money. Yet we keep seeing people like OP who insist they shouldn't need to spend either.

[Sobx.1758]

23 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

ANet's original proposition even before the game's release was you either spend time or you spend money. Yet we keep seeing people like OP who insist they shouldn't need to spend either.

Yup. OP claims he doesn't want it easier, but at the same time... he wants more sources and to have them more farmable. That alone makes them easier to get and due to the increased amount of material, the price is very obviously farther going down. Some people point that out, after which OP just sticks to the "I didn't [specifically] say I want it easier" -of course, @Labjax.2465, you didn't use this exact wording, but the changes you want implemented ARE making the acquisition easier. Both through making it directly more farmable and through driving the price down. Nobody here made anything up, it's just pointing out the pretty obvious and inevitable results of the changes proposed in this thread.

Moreover, OP claims he wants to have a discussion, but when he gets asked for the explanation how to counteract something he claims he doesn't want to happen (@mindcircus.1506: "Explain how a new faucet will not drive down the price further . They are a trade-able resource."), the only response received is.. "no, I won't put time into analysis". That's not someone who wants a discussion, that's someone who wants an echo chamber. The concerns raised in the responses to this thread are not being contrarian, they're just reasonable and you don't need to make some indepth analysis to see it. You add more ways to get something in bigger quantities and it will get easier to get, not sure what way around it you'd see.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Gehenna.3625]

17 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

As far as I can tell, there is no non-time-gated way to obtain Mystic Coins and the most organic ways are some Fractal Daily chests? (possible drop), the one from ley-line anomaly, and a limited amount from PvP tournaments and WvW pip track.

And also from Drizzlewood Coast. There are 6 reward tracks there that give 7 clovers each and then 2 when you repeat them. The difference with WvW is that you can progress them together.

17 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Basically what I'm getting at is, unlike most materials (even t6, which aren't easy to come by, but have a variety of ways to work toward them) for the most part you're just going to be saving gold to buy Mystic Coins from other players. And that to me is off-putting design.

I spend most of the gold I spend on the TP for T6 mats in spite of them being earnable without time gates. Particularly now the price for mystic coins has dropped so much. 

17 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Numerous legendaries require 250 of them (for Mystic Tribute) and that's on top of whatever amount of them you may need to Mystic Forge for Mystic Clovers.

Sure, but there are other ways to get Mystic Clovers. To argue this is actually contradicting your own argument because there's no time gate on earning Mystic Clovers from WvW and Drizzlewood Coast. And just like T6 mats they don't come fast but you seem to be fine with the T6 mats situation.

17 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Much of the legendary process is pretty effective, in my view, at obfuscating the effort required, so you don't have to think about it as a huge slog, but Mystic Coins are something that sticks out like a sore thumb cause in the end, you're prob just going to be farming a lot of gold.

It depends. Gen3 legendaries have another time gated material (Antique Summ Stones) that is much worse. You need 100 of those and they are currently down to around 6g each, whereas mystic coins are around 1g each. So 600 gold vs 250 gold.

17 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

What I would like to see is for them to be more like t6 mats; more realistic to acquire them over time through regular play and more ways to get more here and there. I'm not asking for them to be easy to get, though I'm sure some will read the title and say that's what I'm asking for. I just want it to be like most materials, where the gold grind is not so transparent.

I think Anet has different ways for different things to collect. It helps variety but also puts a brake on the speed with which you can achieve certain things. But it also is good for the economy. Gold sinks are extremely important to an MMO and having to buy stuff from other players via the TP is therefore a key element: buying/selling stuff on the TP is a massive gold sink. They want to encourage players to use the TP, so the gold currency doesn't suffer from devaluation. That's why they put time gates on some things and massive amounts required of other things (like 35000 elder wood for Pharus). 

Compare it to SWTOR. Their in game currency is credits. On their TP (GTN) stuff costs up to a billion credits now, because that's the max you can ask for an item on the GTN.  SWTOR came out about half a year before GW2 and at the start 1 million credits was a lot of money. Now 1 billion credits isn't even that much. And then think of new players who haven't had the time to make billions yet.

Besides, as you said, mystic coins are mostly generated by log in rewards and not gameplay and Anet likes to encourage people to even just log in. So taking that away (which would have to happen if you were to get what you want) will make sure that log in rewards will lose a big part of their appeal. 

All in all, I think it's wishful thinking on your part. Something tells me you already knew this though. Posting this was more a cry of frustration than anything else. 

[Labjax.2465]

42 minutes ago, disco.9302 said:

Maybe of you spent as much time farming gold or MCs rather than arguing online that your opinion is the right one then you'd get further and wouldn't have such a material deficit to complain about.

The bottom line is that it's your opinion that this is "bad design" and others disagree but you seem not to understand that you could be wrong....

1) I never said it's bad design, I stated what I didn't like about it and what I would like to see.

2) I've stated at least once in this thread that I'm fine with people disagreeing and what I take issue with is tripe like your post that tries to take me down as a person for having views on a video game that you don't want to hear.

3) Just admit you don't like what I proposed for whatever reason and say you disagree, and leave it at that. It's really not that hard. And speaking of time investment, way faster to write than whatever shlock this is.

[disco.9302]

4 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

1) I never said it's bad design, I stated what I didn't like about it and what I would like to see.

2) I've stated at least once in this thread that I'm fine with people disagreeing and what I take issue with is tripe like your post that tries to take me down as a person for having views on a video game that you don't want to hear.

3) Just admit you don't like what I proposed for whatever reason and say you disagree, and leave it at that. It's really not that hard. And speaking of time investment, way faster to write than whatever shlock this is.

1 - you said it's "offputting design".... does this mean "good" in your universe?

2 - you're once again just aggressively arguing with people who don't agree.... further proving my point that you don't seem to grasp the concept of forums...

3 - you clearly comprehend that I disagree with the majority of what you said... what is there to "admit"?

[Emberfoot.6847]

1 hour ago, Labjax.2465 said:

1) I never said it's bad design, I stated what I didn't like about it and what I would like to see.

2) I've stated at least once in this thread that I'm fine with people disagreeing and what I take issue with is tripe like your post that tries to take me down as a person for having views on a video game that you don't want to hear.

3) Just admit you don't like what I proposed for whatever reason and say you disagree, and leave it at that. It's really not that hard. And speaking of time investment, way faster to write than whatever shlock this is.

I disagree.

[Labjax.2465]

Just now, Emberfoot.6847 said:

I disagree.

Ok. 👋

[Obtena.7952]

On 7/8/2022 at 1:07 AM, Labjax.2465 said:

What are the sides? I made a thread simply saying I didn't like how most mystic coin acquisition comes down to gold farming and how I'd like it to feel more organic like other parts of legendary building. I never even said I wanted the cost to go down. In fact, I specifically said that wasn't what I was asking for and people still imposed that on me as a binary argument.

That's a pretty weird stance on MC acquisition considering it's actually easier to farm MC than the other T6 mats you compare them to. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[DeanBB.4268]

@OP, how do you farm up all the 250 each materials (blood, claws, etc) for the Gifts? I can't imagine not buying them. How is that different?