What if we make been a commander cool again!

[killua.9105]

One of the biggest problems of gw2 I think is wasting rely good ideas by bad implementation or just drop them in game with no system around them to improve their effect, And one of them will be the commander tag. 

The commander, the player who has that cool icon on top of his head that you can see even on the map, the one that every new player will look at as one of the elite of the game, the one that will show them the way!. all that means nothing now as every one who has 300 gold can just buy in the way even if he is an idiot who knows nothing about the game and the mechanics of it. how we can know if that person who put on the tag to lead people in an event missing raid or whatever is rely reliable to do so. why not put a system that implement the commander tag in an competitive environment and show people what is the rely capability of the commander's.

 

 What if we have another window in game specifically for the commander tag system that let's say divide commander's to 4 divisions  exp :"officer=>lieutenant=>commander=>general" and drop the cost of the tag to 50 gold and another 50 each time upgrade division and make upgrading to other division depending on an achievement. For exp to upgrade from officer to lieutenant you have to command party of 10 minimum in (5 protect event /5 collecting events/5 ...). and on each division we put more harder event like world bosses to meta's then raids and Strike Missions at the top divisions and make the tag looks slightly different like how the division logo change or upgrade in league of legends for example, the logo get a wing or something at the sides that get's bigger each division. 

and make the divisions downgrade on level each 2 or 3 months so they have to re'upgrade their last division. and they get's a an outfit or some kind of cosmetic that only wearable if your in that division. then lastly make a people in the squad to be able to rate the commander after leaving the party after successful event with like =(commander like +1) or dislike =(commander like -1) and make a leaderboard of each top 100 in each divisions with most likes that's will be shown in the commander window. and lastly make the window have 2 section (pvp tag/pve tag) with the pvp tag have different mission involve wvw .

And by that in my point of view we have better'ich system that make player's more involving and push them to make squads and help each other's and make it easier to people to pick who to follow and rely on specially new player's . and have better gold sinker then that useless one time 300 gold .

                                                         

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[SinisterSlay.6973]

The sounds like a solution looking for a problem.

I don't often see commanders with the tag up having no clue what to do unless they inherited the group from another commander. It's all pretty rare.

I think the community has a pretty good understanding that you don't put up the tag unless you're leading a group and have at least some idea of what you're doing.

Edited July 23, 2022 by SinisterSlay.6973

[Khisanth.2948]

More romanticization of a past that doesn't exist

17 minutes ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

The sounds like a solution looking for a problem.

I don't often see commanders with the tag up having no clue what to do unless they inherited the group from another commander. It's all pretty rare.

I think the community has a pretty good understanding that you don't put up the tag unless you're leading a group and have at least some idea of what you're doing.

None of that is new or recent either. There has always been clueless commanders so the "again" is just OP being misleading.

[Danikat.8537]

57 minutes ago, killua.9105 said:

What if we have another window in game specifically for the commander tag system that let's say divide commander's to 4 divisions  exp :"officer=>lieutenant=>commander=>general" and drop the cost of the tag to 50 gold and another 50 each time upgrade division and make upgrading to other division depending on an achievement. For exp to upgrade from officer to lieutenant you have to command party of 10 minimum in (5 protect event /5 collecting events/5 ...). and on each division we put more harder event like world bosses to meta's then raids and Strike Missions at the top divisions

The problem I have with this is that being able to lead normal events has nothing to do with being able to lead strikes or raids and there's no reason to require players do one before the other. (It would be the same if it was the other way around.) Even knowing how to lead one meta-event doesn't mean you can lead another, because the important thing is knowing how the event is going to go - where players need to be and when and what to expect next and that's specific to each one.

Other than that it just seems like unnecessary grind to unlock the tag. There are sometimes commanders who don't know what they're doing, but I'm not convinced any of this would fix the problem, it would just require those who do want to command to waste a lot of time grinding areas of the game with nothing to do with what they'd be commanding.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Let's not, and say we did. 

[gert.7698]

There is no problem with bad commanders in the game, almost every commander i follow in this game knows what he is doing ! 

[voltaicbore.8012]

I think this would be unnecessary. Tagging up is already self-selecting - most of the time, the largely casual playerbase here seems to not want to tag up, because that would identify them as a leader of some kind.

The one exception to this for me has been Dragon's Stand. For whatever reason, I run into a good number of tags there that have no clue what they're doing.

[Khisanth.2948]

46 minutes ago, gert.7698 said:

There is no problem with bad commanders in the game, almost every commander i follow in this game knows what he is doing ! 

There is also a very simple solution to bad commanders. Just make a note about them somewhere. I just need to care about bad DE commanders so I just block them to avoid seeing any of them in the LFG tool.

[Danikat.8537]

9 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

I think this would be unnecessary. Tagging up is already self-selecting - most of the time, the largely casual playerbase here seems to not want to tag up, because that would identify them as a leader of some kind.

The one exception to this for me has been Dragon's Stand. For whatever reason, I run into a good number of tags there that have no clue what they're doing.

I think that's partially because for some reason Dragon's Stand has retained the perception that it needs 3 commanders or it will fail. If you don't have 3 tags on the map in the first few minutes after it resets some people will declare the map empty (regardless of the total number of people) and say there's no point attempting the meta because it will fail and on a bad day enough people believe them and leave that it actually does end up with an empty map.

That's not true of course, I've done it with 1-2 lanes using a mentor tag instead and occasionally with 1 lane that has no tag at all, but it means map chat will be constantly full of people insisting the meta will fail. Even when the lane without a tag was consistently first to clear camps and the Blighting Tree and I think had more people than the other two (probably because they kept swapping to the 'empty' lane) we had people going into the final boss fight insisting that there weren't enough players to cover all the islands and it would fail.

So it's usually better for whoever has a tag to turn it on whether they're confident leading a lane or not than risk emptying out a full map because no one is tagging up. Sometimes if a more experienced commander volunteers they'll swap, but since the tag is only really needed to show everyone (mainly the other lanes) where the majority of the group is it also doesn't matter too much who is using it as long as they know to stay in the right area and someone is giving instructions.

I'm not saying literally anyone can lead however, I have also had bad commanders in Dragon's Stand, most memorably one who kept going off to do map completion and gathering bits or just to explore instead of doing side events, of course leading most of the squad with them and not only went into the middle at the Blighting Tree but told the entire squad to focus on the champion, ignoring the pods and preservers.

[Lottie.5370]

The most often complaint I see about why people don't pop a commander tag, is because they don't want to spend 300g on a tag. I don't think OP's suggestions really fix anything, it just makes the commander system confusing.

I'd rather they allowed the mentor tag to have a group of 50 players - it's free, but you'd still have to get a proper commander tag to change colour/icon and place markers etc. It might encourage more people to pop a tag for something, or to help taxi people into a map (and still have the option to make it a 10 man squad for 10 man content).

[Westenev.5289]

Why do commanders need rewards? There's already satisfaction in leading 15-25 people and having them follow orders like "Everything in this general direction must die".

[azorean.1850]

Worst idea ever.

[Chichimec.9364]

This really does seem like a solution to something that is not an actual problem, at least not in my experience. Generally, I see commander tags in open world pve being used in several ways. Sometimes it's for bounty or hp trains. Other times it's for dailies - either doing events on a given map or doing a bounty. Then there's tags for the more complicated metas, like Triple Trouble, Dragon's Stand, and the like. In those situations I don't remember ever seeing much of a problem with commanders who don't know what they are doing. Maybe other people are seeing that but I haven't.

The funniest thing I've seen with commander tags in open world pve was actually in the Dragon's End meta. Right after EoD dropped, I did that meta maybe half a dozen times. Several times there were commanders who worked hard to organize the map and coach people through the final battle. Each of those times ended in failure. The one time in those early days that I was in a group who actually won the battle, it was with a commander who never said or did a thing besides throwing up a tag. No organizing, no coaching, nothing. The only reason we won that time and other groups I was in, with much more organized and knowledgeable commanders, lost several times was the whim of RNGeesus. The OP's complicated commander rating system would not have been of any use in that situation at all.

In WvW, I have seen people who don't really know what they are doing throw up a commander tag. That hasn't been an issue for me though, as it's pretty easy to tell if a commander is clueless or not in that game mode. Just follow them for a bit and you'll know how good they are as a commander. Remember the names, follow the good ones, ignore the bad ones, and there is no reason for some needlessly complicated commander rating system.

 

[daninumbers.4036]

On paper it looks like a good idea. In practice I'd say it's not. I could and I have led certain things I like and I've done them dozens or hundreds of times in a random group or following someone else. If I had to even do raids or some other content I'm not good at or I simply don't like, someone extremely good at leading something would be seen as a noob tag over someone that did everything but maybe is trash at leading, what you are trying to fix. To make it usable it should change your tag type/rank per content instead of in general. That's not viable though and also very confusing.

Another thing, nobody is born knowing how to lead here. This is a huge problem in wvw, at least in my server, with some people that will literally insult you over not being good. That's why I refuse to tag up there. You can't learn because you'll be bashed over any mistakes. Either you ignore or block those idiots or don't tag and people leave since most play there in blobs. And this kind of tag would be noob tag (don't follow) => not good => fine if nothing else => follow this tag.

The current system has flaws but not everyone would burn 300g if they didn't want to actually lead or at least learn. I'd stay with this one.

[ASP.8093]

On 7/23/2022 at 4:52 PM, killua.9105 said:

What if we have another window in game specifically for the commander tag system that let's say divide commander's to 4 divisions  exp :"officer=>lieutenant=>commander=>general" and drop the cost of the tag to 50 gold and another 50 each time upgrade division and make upgrading to other division depending on an achievement. For exp to upgrade from officer to lieutenant you have to command party of 10 minimum in (5 protect event /5 collecting events/5 ...). and on each division we put more harder event like world bosses to meta's then raids and Strike Missions at the top divisions and make the tag looks slightly different like how the division logo change or upgrade in league of legends for example, the logo get a wing or something at the sides that get's bigger each division.

This is just a bunch of pointless busywork you've invented.

Nobody learns how to run a strike/raid group by leading a bunch of lemmings around on some escort quests. (And nobody who thinks they can learn how to lead strikes/raids this way is remotely prepared to do it)

[Funky.4861]

Your creativity is good but your proposed system is heavily flawed. It's completely open to abuse (by players trolling would-be commanders) quite grindy, costs the same amount of gold and demands the commander to upkeep their tag. GW2 shouldn't be a part-time job, it's a game!

[Danikat.8537]

6 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

Your creativity is good but your proposed system is heavily flawed. It's completely open to abuse (by players trolling would-be commanders) quite grindy, costs the same amount of gold and demands the commander to upkeep their tag. GW2 shouldn't be a part-time job, it's a game!

It also has the opposite problem that it would be very easy for commanders to artifically boost their ratings. Guilds could organise 'activites' where anyone with a commander tag gets together and they all take turns leading a squad, getting positive ratings then disband and reform with someone else as the leader until everyone had gotten a full set of positive ratings. Alternatively individual commanders could simply pay people for positive ratings.

Oh and I'm not saying this would happen instead of trolling, I think it'd be both. Genuine commanders getting swamped with negative ratings by trolls (or simply being down-rated for the most trivial things) and others farming positive ratings from their friends.

Some sort of rating or voting system for commanders has been suggested many times over the years and it always has the same problem that it would be very easy to abuse. If someone can come up with a way to fix that problem without making it too complicated/time-consuming/expensive to bother with I think it could possibly be a good idea, but even then it would need to be very specific. Someone could be genuinely great at leading Dragon's End but useless at Dry Top because they haven't been there in years and don't know where and when the events start or what the boss mechanics are. Neither meta event would prepare them to command in WvW or a raid.

[Dante.1508]

Why do Commanders need to be cool, they need to lead and help people, this is not a way to make money.. If you can't lead or don't know what you are doing don't commander up.. also don't waste 300gold and use mentor if you really need to show people where you are or want to lead some events.. Its what i do.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 7/23/2022 at 10:52 PM, killua.9105 said:

And by that in my point of view we have better'ich system that make player's more involving and push them to make squads and help each other's and make it easier to people to pick who to follow and rely on specially new player's . and have better gold sinker then that useless one time 300 gold .

Quite the opposite. Due to the constant grinding and constant investment your proposal requires, instead of pushing players to make squads and help others it would push them away from it. Basically, the only reason why you would ever consider it is if you were a full-time commander who gets paid for the job. Or for vanity, which would be counterprodictive to your original stated goal.

Overall, i see no benefit and a number of downsides to this suggestion. The current situation is far better.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Garrison Storm.3046]

While the general objective has merit, as mentioned it would be impossible to qualify individuals in various areas of expertise.  Objectively you would need to establish your various levels and ratings based on measurable metrics, none of which would guarantee that an individual is competent for leadership, which is a subjective and unmeasurable trait, at least by available metrics.  Basing this on player voting is not viable for the reasons mentioned by others.

 

The tag could be harder to acquire... raise the price and establish minimum thresholds to purchase with things like time played, achievement points, mastery points, map complete, wvw/fractal rankings, etc, etc.  But while that all reflects on experience, it also makes no guarantee as to competency in leadership, and runs the serious risk of discouraging new potential commanders while frustrating the existing good commanders with the various re-qualifying aspects you suggest.

 

The reality is that ineffective commanders are quickly identified and easily avoided in the future, and the good ones develop reputations and are remembered. 

 

While not a perfect system, I think it's as good as we can get.

[TexZero.7910]

Alright just for the OP imma go tag up in queensdale and watch paint dry.

[robertthebard.8150]

18 hours ago, TexZero.7910 said:

Alright just for the OP imma go tag up in queensdale and watch paint dry.

What color's the paint, because if it's not really bright, I'll watch too...  😛

[Rogue.8235]

On 7/24/2022 at 2:29 PM, Westenev.5289 said:

Why do commanders need rewards? There's already satisfaction in leading 15-25 people and having them follow orders like "Everything in this general direction must die".

 

That's usually my reason for using the tag.  I'm playing the game, running around, enjoying the roaming of the open world.  Suddenly I die, for whatever reason.  Could be an NPC, could be a cliff, doesn't matter.  I died so I taG UP AND YELL EVERYTHING MUST DIIIIIEEEEE!!!!!!111!!1!!!1!

Then a mob of players murder everything and I feel better.

 

Yes I did say cliff.  I might have fallen off the cliff and died, but I'm definitely blaming the first NPC I come across, not myself.  

 

edit:

tag also helps for doing group events and bounties I really don't feel like soloing.  Again, summon player horde, kill all the things, move on with a smile.

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Rogue.8235

[Endaris.1452]

I don't know man.

A tier system is bound to introduce kitten like "aw, that guy is only a T1 commander, this meta is going to be a fail".

Personally I do have a tag to lead raid trainings (usually with voice chat). Once in a blue moon you'll see me tag up at 3am at night during week in WvW to take back a keep, just so people know I'm here but I put in the squad message what I intend to do and that I generally have no idea what I'm doing (further made visible to everyone by the fact that I play condi druid for such occasions).

Generally speaking, putting up your tag forms expectations and rather than doing a shoddy job, I'd prefer to just not take up that responsibility. Even if the squad succeeds because most player already know what's going on, chances are there will be new players that don't.
So while tagging up for any lane in Tarir or TD is fine (historically also for the mentioned concern that a map without comms "can't succeed"), in most other content I prefer only tagging as mentor even though I have a commander tag, simply because I lack the expertise in that specific content to be able to guide others. Oh yes and if I need a bounty, really useful strat there to attract the two extra meat bags to be able to kill it even, haha (no disrespect meant, often there are really good players coming too but just having numbers of 3 vs being alone is just such a boon for any bounty.