Bladesworn is just too strong (and bugged)

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Just fixing
1) bugged stab on DT
2) healing skill going on no cd when rupted
Is going to bring the spec much more in line with what you'd expect.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Grimjack.8130]

50 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Just fixing
1) bugged stab on DT
2) healing skill going on no cd when when rupted
Is going to bring the spec much more in line with what you'd expect.

not mentioning to fix the bugged cd on DT is insane

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Just fixing
1) bugged stab on DT
2) healing skill going on no cd when when rupted
Is going to bring the spec much more in line with what you'd expect.

 

Agreed with both of these, though I wonder how BS will fare with one of those slashes guaranteed a minute.

I don't want it overperforming, but I don't want headshot thieves adding it to the junk pile singlehandedly like they do the others. 

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 8/10/2022 at 7:30 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Agreed with both of these, though I wonder how BS will fare with one of those slashes guaranteed a minute.

I don't want it overperforming, but I don't want headshot thieves adding it to the junk pile singlehandedly like they do the others. 

I've said it before, dragonscale defense should pulse resolution\protection while you're in DT, and triggerguard should give stab instead. So you can consciously decide to invest resources to protect THAT ONE dragon trigger, instead of having the game decide that for you once per minute or so

EDIT and the unblockable needs to kittening go.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I've said it before, dragonscale defense should pulse resolution\protection while you're in DT, and triggerguard should give stab instead. So you can consciously decide to invest resources to protect THAT ONE dragon trigger, instead of having the game decide that for you once per minute or so

 

This is reasonable.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Agreed with both of these, though I wonder how BS will fare with one of those slashes guaranteed a minute.

I don't want it overperforming, but I don't want headshot thieves adding it to the junk pile singlehandedly like they do the others. 

Exactly.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

8 hours ago, ano nimo.3948 said:

 If we just would have devs who care about PvP and balance and act less biased and narrowed. How can this exist that long without getting hotfixed and then maybe nerfed after?

Blindside is Shadowfall?

Nice videos actually.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

7 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I've said it before, dragonscale defense should pulse resolution\protection while you're in DT, and triggerguard should give stab instead. So you can consciously decide to invest resources to protect THAT ONE dragon trigger, instead of having the game decide that for you once per minute or so

That's a good suggestion.

 

I'd personally recommend dragonscale defence giving resistance (and putting stab on triggerguard like you suggested). More on that and related ideas:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/119349-saving-daring-dragonand-balancing-dragon-trigger/

 

[Crab Fear.8623]

Lol, I'm right again.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

28 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

That's a good suggestion.

 

I'd personally recommend dragonscale defence giving resistance (and putting stab on triggerguard like you suggested). More on that and related ideas:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/119349-saving-daring-dragonand-balancing-dragon-trigger/

 

Not a fan of resistance. Otherwise BS would get to ignore weakness and blind too, on top of all the things they already ignore.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

22 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Not a fan of resistance. Otherwise BS would get to ignore weakness and blind too, on top of all the things they already ignore.

Understandable, but I think it's a fair trade-off if they are now subject to hard CC (of which there is A LOT in this game) because they now longer have stab.  Try playing BS without using Unyielding Dragon; it needs that blind immunity to have a chance.  And the other GM traits are positively useless in competitive because they lack that.  You could make all Dragon Slash attacks immune to blind at baseline, but I personally think a short-term gain of resistance both has more upside as well as more counterplay (since the boon can be stripped/corrupted or allowed to expire).

 

Tbh, ANet kinda designed themselves into this corner by making Dragon Trigger a self-root "all or nothing" attack on which so much of BS's offense depends.  If you don't provide some sort of borderline OP defensive mechanic, be it stab spam or resistance spam, DT is going to be unplayable in competitive content.  But if you DO provide such a mechanic, it feels OP and hard to counter (unless you can rapid CC or strip the boons).

 

For what it's worth, I and many Warriors objected to this design back in beta...Alas, here we are.

[phixion.9428]

On 8/10/2022 at 7:30 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 don't want it overperforming, but I don't want headshot thieves adding it to the junk pile singlehandedly like they do the others. 

The only reason bs is not that overshadowed by thief +1 is because it is utterly broken atm and that can't be the way. You also would not overbuff side node ele even more so it can deal better with necros. Except for berserker, no warrior spec is weak or bad and with some counters you have to live, like other classes need to live with as well.

 

Anet either develops a new spec for warrior with shorter or less telegraphed casttimes, better disengage which can't be ruptedbut then gives it weaknesses classes with stealth or instant teleports have, or warriors have to live with that. Crying for buffs to core/spellbreaker or hoping for bs staying op, so thief can't keep it out of side node meta isn't asking for fair balance  in my opinion.

Edited January 16, 2023 by phixion.9428

[anjo.6143]

18 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Blindside is Shadowfall?

Nice videos actually.

Yes

[Bazsi.2734]

Here is how you fix bladesworn:

Buff shouts again. We did it twice in the last few patches, and it failed both times but, listen. What is the likelyhood of the same thing failing 3 times in a row? Have you ever heard of any company tripling down on a seemingly stupid balance decision and failing? No? So that's why it's gotta work the third time around!
We'll keep buffing bladesworn until spellbreaker is meta again! 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Here is how you fix bladesworn:

Buff shouts again. We did it twice in the last few patches, and it failed both times but, listen. What is the likelyhood of the same thing failing 3 times in a row? Have you ever heard of any company tripling down on a seemingly stupid balance decision and failing? No? So that's why it's gotta work the third time around!
We'll keep buffing bladesworn until spellbreaker is meta again! 

 

The cherry on top of this is the reason they reworked lush forest was to discourage this playstyle to begin with. But it only made people do it more. 

[Vancho.8750]

On 8/10/2022 at 8:11 PM, Grimjack.8130 said:

not mentioning to fix the bugged cd on DT is insane

For some reason all grandmaster traits have the Dragonsclae Defense reset that is supposed to be Daring Dragons trait thing, I think the devs are keeping the bug as band Aid on top of all the other Band Aids to prop it up since the mechanics of the skills are not exactly good. 
I can see why they are keeping it as is, it is "fair" bunker since it can stall 1v1s maybe even win, but when it gets +1 it will fold in most cases  since the band aid shouts can't keep up with damage like active mitigation bunkers. It is like Valk ranger and both are not exactly peak gaming if we put it mildly.  

[Sahne.6950]

10 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

For some reason all grandmaster traits have the Dragonsclae Defense reset that is supposed to be Daring Dragons trait thing, I think the devs are keeping the bug as band Aid on top of all the other Band Aids to prop it up since the mechanics of the skills are not exactly good. 
I can see why they are keeping it as is, it is "fair" bunker since it can stall 1v1s maybe even win, but when it gets +1 it will fold in most cases  since the band aid shouts can't keep up with damage like active mitigation bunkers. It is like Valk ranger and both are not exactly peak gaming if we put it mildly.  

at this point i believe that those "bugs" are actually "bandaid features" to balance the game...

This reminds me of Harbinger.... They for some reason broke the "weakening shrouds" trait.... the "weakness on crit"  is doing exactly NOTHING currently... and its the only thing keeping Harbinger from dominating pvp. Even after all this nerfs, they had to completly disable a GM trait to bring it roughly in line with other specs. 😂

Edited August 12, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[UNOwen.7132]

Make Tactical Reload and Lush Forest only work on Bladesworn abilities (no shouts), buff Gunsaber, and thats all you need to do.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

On 8/10/2022 at 5:32 PM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I've said it before, dragonscale defense should pulse resolution\protection while you're in DT, and triggerguard should give stab instead. So you can consciously decide to invest resources to protect THAT ONE dragon trigger, instead of having the game decide that for you once per minute or so

EDIT and the unblockable needs to kittening go.

Yup exactly, even with a high cd stab trait is bad design, in fact its worse than if it has no cd due to being unpredictable

[Xyrony Shush.8457]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:39 AM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Blindside is Shadowfall?

Nice videos actually.

Yes and yes.

 

1 hour ago, Vancho.8750 said:

 I think the devs are keeping the bug as band Aid on top of all the other Band Aids to prop it up since the mechanics of the skills are not exactly good.

Exactly.

 

Bladesworn shows that adding too much counterplay isn't the peak of skill cap/ceiling either. To make that work in a competitive scenario you either need to add a stupid amount of low cd spam, so the over counterable skills have a chance to hit by just outspamming the defensive kit of opponents (the direction virtuoso needs to work if you wanna make that viable with current f-skill mechanics) or you have to add insanely unhealthy mechanics in traits like Unyielding Dragon which reduce the counterplay in another way again (the overtelegraphed and long cast and channeltime on the bladsworn burstskill gets carried by unblock-unblindable-dmg incl a stun which never should be unblockable, all ofc barely cc-able for just one player and ofc the bug that makes it more spammable).  

 

Bladesworn just as Virtuoso design is the best proof that the trade off garbage (which was the leading idea for those 2 specs obiously) doesn't work and does exactly the opposite of what it is supposed to do. It was supposed to reduce power creep and bring "op" elites more near to core lvl and provide a fair and skillful balance between those. But in fact (at least in the way Anet realized those trade offs) they just make mechanics clunky/ unfluid and artificial, contradict the way spec mechanics were supposed to work, and reduce skill cap remarkable. While the overcounter-ability then needs to get reduced by another artifical and unhealthy mechanic (Unyielding Dragon trait, Blockspam on Virtu) or overbuffs (cd reductions to outspam defensive kits of opponents or stupid high dmg numbers) which reduce skill demand even more.

[Zekent.3652]

On 8/12/2022 at 7:42 AM, ano nimo.3948 said:

Yes and yes.

 

Exactly.

 

Bladesworn shows that adding too much counterplay isn't the peak of skill cap/ceiling either. To make that work in a competitive scenario you either need to add a stupid amount of low cd spam, so the over counterable skills have a chance to hit by just outspamming the defensive kit of opponents (the direction virtuoso needs to work if you wanna make that viable with current f-skill mechanics) or you have to add insanely unhealthy mechanics in traits like Unyielding Dragon which reduce the counterplay in another way again (the overtelegraphed and long cast and channeltime on the bladsworn burstskill gets carried by unblock-unblindable-dmg incl a stun which never should be unblockable, all ofc barely cc-able for just one player and ofc the bug that makes it more spammable).  

 

Bladesworn just as Virtuoso design is the best proof that the trade off garbage (which was the leading idea for those 2 specs obiously) doesn't work and does exactly the opposite of what it is supposed to do. It was supposed to reduce power creep and bring "op" elites more near to core lvl and provide a fair and skillful balance between those. But in fact (at least in the way Anet realized those trade offs) they just make mechanics clunky/ unfluid and artificial, contradict the way spec mechanics were supposed to work, and reduce skill cap remarkable. While the overcounter-ability then needs to get reduced by another artifical and unhealthy mechanic (Unyielding Dragon trait, Blockspam on Virtu) or overbuffs (cd reductions to outspam defensive kits of opponents or stupid high dmg numbers) which reduce skill demand even more.

Calm down, you can't just type a whole argument with facts like that, you're giving bladesworn fans a breakdown 😭.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

it should have double the time on the cool-downs on its weapons for it to be doing the kind of damage its doing i feel.

[Zekent.3652]

According to That_Shaman, next patch comes in 2 weeks 👀

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Zizekent.2398

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Nerf are coming, can't have warrior be meta in any way in this games pvp or its community gets all up in arms lol, gona be sweet when ALL of warriors specs are mediocre at best in pvp modes AGAIN while specters, mechs, untamed, and willows are running around with insignificant nerfs......can't wait.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Vaga.5174]

Anet please, for the love of god, fix bladesworn, its the most horrible thing i've ever come across in this game. Nothing should have Massive damage, group sustain, insane self sustain, and unbockable interrupts and decent mobility all together in 1 package.

 

The fact I tried it, and just button mashed and put up as much of a fight as I did is not fun and engaging gameplay, its broken. 

 

What happened to PvP being about decent gameplay rather than playing the most broken class currently out.

 

Please - there is a reason its being abused right now.