Been a nice ride...but it had to end sometime...

[Asur.9178]

I've seen more than enough from the stream. I don't need to stick around for the 29th to know there will be nothing relevant being addressed.

The team STILL does not have a thief player among them, guiding them in the right direction...for over 10 years.

DE nerfed with no actual relevant adjustment. Moving with 25% movement speed while kneeling is worse than cancelling kneel and moving and re-kneeling. The ability to move at a snail's pace is not justified by the range nerf and the initiative cost increase.

Trickery is still a shoehorn traitline for over 10 years in PvP; Acrobatics is still an insignificant traitline for over 2 years (almost 3 years now) in all gamemodes; and Sword is still garbage in PvE. None of them were addressed at any level.

Said this for months, and....I'm done. I will occasionally keep an eye on future balance updates and may return if the said issues are finally addressed (highly doubtful at this point), until I lose any and all interest in the game...but, I am done with the game for now. For those who intend to still stick around supporting these serious lack of attention to the class for years, I wish you all good luck with your hopium and future endeavors.

Quote

If I do not see Acrobatics and Trickery in all gamemodes, and Sword in PvE being addressed for Thief in the mid-fall major professions update, I would not be surprised to find myself quitting the game. In particular, Acrobatics has been a dead traitline for over 2 years, while Trickery has been a problem for almost 10 years (will be 10 years by the time the next patch arrives). It's absolutely ridiculous that these long standing issues and problem areas are still not addressed.

 

Quote

I am already prepared to make my exit post the November changes (because I do not see Trickery and Acrobatics in all gamemodes, and Sword in PvE being addressed at the rate they are going), after supporting the game for over 10 years and the franchise over 17 years.

 

Quote

As I mentioned numerous times since a few months ago, I'm merely waiting for the November patch. That will determine my decision about whether I, personally, quit the game or not. Having been around for over 17 years with the franchise and over 10 years with GW2 alone, and spending countless hours and money in the games, I'm sure they don't mind losing people like me who've invested so much into their growth.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Asur.9178

[reddie.5861]

thief has been shafted for aslong as i play this game. people might say its not tru well its.
u add absolutely nothing to any game mode beside PvP (not WvW)  and in PvP ur just good at helping other people out so even there in my eyes a herald or anything mobile should be outshining thief cus its probably adding more stuff then just +1

anyway thief dmg was far higher years ago then its now.
thief mobility used to be far superior to most classes years ago nowadays every1 is mobile.

thief used to be lovely at start of the game but i lost interest already at moment deadeye came around and it got worse when they added spectre or specter useless class.

oye i hate condi so if thief shines at that well congratz my bad then, but i dont see condi as a way of playing so im sorry if thats the case.

[Carnifex.3275]

I'm with u mate. Been a thief main for years... but yeah. I'm calling it.

What i hate is that people always argue with you that thief is fine and give an example of lets say 1 encounter like Qadim. Really? 1 encounter makes it fine? Like people never play it and they still keep arguing that it's fine, basically just trolling you even though they spent like 10 hours on thief vs. someone who spent years on thief. If it's really fine why dont i see thieves everywhere? Why don't u play it? I dont remember when i've seen pDE or pDD in my squad. Anyway.. no matter how bad it is or will be - others will always tell you that ThIeF IS FiNe. U can give em tons of reasons and feedback but it's always a losing battle.

And anet just continues to look clueless when it comes to thief. Patch didnt make sense. When patch "preview" ended i almost laughed thinking "wait. that's it?! rly?!". 🤣

Edited November 12, 2022 by Carnifex.3275

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

I've pretty much stopped playing at this point. Went to FF14 while I hope GW2's balance team gets their kitten together.

[UNOwen.7132]

Its a buff aimed at PvE. In PvP and WvW, Kneel is not used because its completely worthless, so the focus on this change is to allow repositioning without dropping DPS, and I do think it works for that. Its a loss in flavour, but its definitely a buff in usability.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

25 minutes ago, Carnifex.3275 said:

I'm with u mate. Been a thief main for years... but yeah. I'm calling it.

What i hate is that people always argue with you that thief is fine and give an example of lets say 1 encounter like Qadim. Really? 1 encounter makes it fine? Like people never play it and they still keep arguing that it's fine, basically just trolling you even though they spent like 10 hours on thief vs. someone who spent years on thief. If it's really fine why dont i see thieves everywhere? Why don't u play it? I dont remember when i've seen pDE or pDD in my squad. Anyway.. no matter how bad it is or will be - others will always tell you that ThIeF IS FiNe. U can give em tons of reasons and feedback but it's always a losing battle.

And anet just continues to look clueless when it comes to thief. Patch didnt make sense. When patch "preview" ended i almost laughed thinking "wait. that's it?! rly?!". Teapot chuckled when thief notes ended also lol. 😄 

Since 3 day headstart here thief main. Ive seen us rise and fall left and right but what sticks out the most is that the balance team pushes changes even though we warn them, they say "we hear you" then keep the changes and nerf something else instead of reverting or adjusting something else.

The kneel change does NOT justify damage or range reduction nor does it make sense to keep prior patch regarding Deaths retreat on Feb, 25th 2020. 

Choking Gas needs to revert back to May 17th 2017.

Looking at my prior comments on ranger lb having way way longer range now, even with this deadeye NERF,  theres no downside to the ranger "Sniping" everyone with a free pass...in case no ones seen it, they are untouchable when sitting up top of stonemist castle in wvw unless you have a ballista...a siege equipment...Think about that for a second. 

This "code" needs to be put in check, prior patches, changes, nerfs, buffs regarding deadeye or anything connecting to it being a reason for change to deadeye NEED to be looked at for the reason they were changed THEN adjusted based on future changes like this one. Changing something but not changing what was done prior that required the new change resolves nothing

[Tails.9372]

46 minutes ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

the focus on this change is to allow repositioning without dropping DPS ... Its a loss in flavour, but its definitely a buff in usability.

But that's only really relevant in high level play where the range nerf doesn't matter all that much as anyone generally just stacks up on the boss anyway which begs the question: what's the point of the range nerf? One could say that "its not that much of a drawback" at high level play but this nerf is obviously going to upset everyone else as having the "rage advantage" is arguably one of if not the main part of DEs spec identity (SB with LB has now 50% more effective range) and one has to have a complete tunnel vision on endgame environments (which is something they said they wanted to avoid and goes directly against their stated "Balance Philosophy") or have to adopt quite the "well screw the average player I couldn't care less about them" mentality to think that nerfing the range on "the sniper spec" in "sniper stance" is in any way shape or from a good idea.

They should have just made the DJ and "you can now move very slowly in kneel" changes without adding any of the drawbacks and looked at how things go from there. They really brought all the negative feedback upon semselfs.

[Yasai.3549]

2 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

Its a buff aimed at PvE. In PvP and WvW, Kneel is not used because its completely worthless, so the focus on this change is to allow repositioning without dropping DPS, and I do think it works for that. Its a loss in flavour, but its definitely a buff in usability.

That's where I feel Anet either doesn't play DE or never tests paper stats vs practical application. 
That Kneel movement isn't very reliable. 25% moving speed is trash, you will have to unkneel to properly reposition for mechanics and now that Kneel is 2 Ini up from 1, you lose DPS just because you need to resolve positioning. That's straight up not even helping DE in PvE, at all. And that's not mentioning the -300 range which tightens the DE's positioning even more relative to the target. 

The moving during DJ should have been all they added.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Yasai.3549

[Doggie.3184]

4 hours ago, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

I've pretty much stopped playing at this point. Went to FF14 while I hope GW2's balance team gets their kitten together.

Ninja is a very fun Thief there. My favorite Melee job 🙂 So is Machinist for those of us who like guns and being able to AoE with guns. Something Thief used to be able to do but they hate us too much to give it back.

[Jimbru.6014]

If these changes go through as written, Rifle Deadeye will go from endangered to extinct. It's that simple.

[SamuelW.2685]

"Babe! it's time for your Bi Monthly class gutting balance patch"

Thief Mains: "Yes Anet ;(" 

Real talk though, the changes to Deadeyes range are what got me reeling here the most, it's designed to be a Sniper, sure it's the most meme-y class in GW2 because of that but you can still have fun with Deadeye. Anet reducing it's range to 1200 just feels like a spit in the face at a fundamental  level for Deadeye, the 1500 range gave the class flavour, made you feel like a Sniper cause you could pick people off from farther away then almost almost anyone, and now that's gone for three of it's abilities, and not abilities you never use like Staff 3 and 4, you actually use those abilities in day to day content, it feels like Anet is stripping away a part of what made Deadeye unique.

Other then that the other changes aren't great, not as bad as last patch but still not very good, increased imitative on Kneel is unnecessary and I don't see the limited movement speed being useful, Deaths Judgement pirecing is nice and helps make rifles rifle better at tagging, but then they juuuuuuuuuust had to reduce it's damage on unmarked targets.

Specter taking a third less damage after entering Shroud is ok, but I don't see this being better then buffing the coefffient back up in PvE or increase shadow force gain so you can enter shroud more, Spelter 2 is still useless and Specter STILL has reduced initiative.

Guess Daredevil got ok changes, not sure if it's gonna be enough to make it's elite more preferable then others, esspec with the massive CC you get from basi venom, not sure if it's gonna be enough to make it bench higher then 34k, and for a melee DPS class that locks you in place with its main damage move, that's not a great benchmark. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by SamuelW.2685

[Kal Durak.2830]

5 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Looking at my prior comments on ranger lb having way way longer range now, even with this deadeye NERF,  theres no downside to the ranger "Sniping" everyone with a free pass...in case no ones seen it, they are untouchable when sitting up top of stonemist castle in wvw unless you have a ballista...a siege equipment...Think about that for a second. 

ROFL, and they buff the Ranger again.. doesn't the Ranger have 1500 range?   Poor Thieves, I forgot they were still in this game to be honest. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I'm guessing that these Deadeye changes were never tested in a real fight.  I challenge the devs to head to Xunlai Junkyard CM, and then use the walk toggle to walk out of a deadly AoE.  Just... see how horribly it goes.  Moving at 25% is slower than being chilled, by the way, and chill will kill people in certain fractals, raids, and even strikes.  Losing 300 range is quite significant for anyone casually playing Deadeye.  This is because, as of PoF, enemy aggro range is 1200, so going above that lets the player set up and start blasting an enemy before they start attacking.  This really helped with surviving PoF, which is what made the Deadeye my favorite spec, and this strategy is still useful all over the game.

So, to reiterate, they're removing the useful additional range on rifle skills for the ability to move at a completely useless pace, and also an increased cost to kneel and un-kneel.  Instead of costing 2 initiative to move out of the way, it will now cost 4 initiative.  It's weird, because a lot of the other changes for this patch are good.  The dagger power buffs are good, piercing Death's Judgement is good (will rarely be used), retaining kneel when CC'd is good, perma-protection Shadow Shroud is good, and the buffs to the Impact Strike chain are interesting.  However, I just cannot get over how they're ruining the Rifle Deadeye with these changes.  The negatives far outweigh the positives, leaving the spec objectively worse and less fun in all aspects of the game.

[SolarDragon.7063]

I'm not a thief main, I barely play the class, but wow those changes look awful from the outside.

[Reznov.5423]

On 11/11/2022 at 5:33 PM, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

I've pretty much stopped playing at this point. Went to FF14 while I hope GW2's balance team gets their kitten together.

Feels bad for you. I don't play gw2 that seriously, So l am still fine with it. I hope you enjoy ff14 because l mainly play that. I actually like pvp in that game better than gw2 now

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

6 hours ago, SolarDragon.7063 said:

I'm not a thief main, I barely play the class, but wow those changes look awful from the outside.

we need more non thief players looking from the outside in like you, most people are just here to rub it in because they dont understand were all human players in the same universe here just trying to enjoy the game...instead they want us nerfed so hard to make easy prey for THEIR fav class, have a trophy upvote 🙂

[Bunny.9834]

This is so bad.... 
What on earth are they thinking??? 

Why would you reduce the range of Kneel Rifle for basically being crippled????? 

Meanwhile ranger can run and still destroy you from more than 1500 range. 

 

Really really terrible decision here. Wow. Either buff it or leave it alone.

Deadeye is for RP. 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Honestly anets devs are horrendous at balancing all classes but if your a rogue player gw2 is the worst mmo to get into as the devs for this game are literally thee worst team I've ever seen as far as rogue balancing, warrior as well.

[Bern.9613]

Looks like I'm out as well. ANet couldn't organize a one man rush on a ten man outhouse. Deadeye started out really clunky because of kneel. Now it's even worse with that stupid RP walk which is going to cost you half your initiative to get to. What idiot came up with that gem? After decreasing power and increasing initiative costs (for those not in the know, yes I'm looking at you ANet, it's used to actuate weapon skills), the gutting of SA (Josh Davis: "Shadow Arts has long been a source of frustrating gameplay, particularly in competitive PvP and WvW", removing increased stealth, giving us a reduced version of what we already had) and trying  to convince us me (because some people ate the party line) it was a "buff". I was holding out, hoping, praying they wouldn't nerf the living crap out of deadeye but ANet has shown their tenacity to make really, REALLY stupid decisions.

[Kal Durak.2830]

On 11/13/2022 at 3:58 PM, Bunny.9834 said:

This is so bad.... 
What on earth are they thinking??? 

Why would you reduce the range of Kneel Rifle for basically being crippled????? 

Meanwhile ranger can run and still destroy you from more than 1500 range. 

 

Really really terrible decision here. Wow. Either buff it or leave it alone.

Deadeye is for RP. 

I know right.  I don't understand why they don't see this.  I never play my thief.  I am annoyed at the perpetual invis thieves but a DeadEye, should have range and hiding IMHO.  You don't run around with a sniper rifle. OMG

[ASP.8093]

In the end, they didn't reduce the range, what we got instead was a straight upgrade.

Possibly including an all-new bonus skill (Shadow Advance), assuming that's not an early beta leak / programming error. Time will tell if that sticks around.

 

The Shadow Arts rework was also a significant upgrade to WvW/SPvP Deadeye's DPS and staying power, the only real casualty there was Daredevil (already being pushed out of the meta by an overtuned Specter at the time) and Rifle/Rifle perma-stealth builds.

[cyberzombie.7348]

On 11/11/2022 at 8:45 PM, DtenCfour.3567 said:

doesn't the Ranger have 1500 range?

1500+ since arrows and arcing projectiles have range buffer.

[Hallow.7368]

This thread reads: "they aren't making the class exactly how I want it with the specific weapon I like being the meta, so I quit" and it aged like fine milk. 

Like okay bye lol guess the "anet hates me because I said so" narrative won't even get dropped when deadeye is competing with catalyst for top DPS. Can't even comprehend what your issue with trickery is? It's not used on power builds because deadly arts and critical strikes give more strike damage, but it is used on condi builds and plays very nicely with them. And acrobatics? What? It does exactly what it says it does what else could it even do or be reworked into that isn't already covered by the other traits? It doesn't matter what they do to it, it will never see play in "all game modes" because it's a survivability trait on a class that already has more than enough survivability with dodges, mobility and even stealth if you choose to use it. The last thing the game needs is another thief trait line that makes them quasi immortal and uninteractive like pre rework shadow arts because that will just get you nerfs all over again just like shadowarts did.

[Jumpel.3972]

2 hours ago, Hallow.7368 said:

Can't even comprehend what your issue with trickery is? It's not used on power builds because deadly arts and critical strikes give more strike damage

Did you miss the "PVP" in his sentence ?

 

2 hours ago, Hallow.7368 said:

It doesn't matter what they do to it, it will never see play in "all game modes"

Acro be viable at least for one game mode would be a good start

 

[ASP.8093]

Trickery is incredibly good and if you didn't have the +3 Initiative, it would still be absolutely required for every single PvP Daredevil build because an instant-casting unblockable stability-piercing interrupt is one of the most powerful things you could ever be doing as a "+1."