Is something wrong with the animations team?

[Buran.3796]

11 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Good point there, but it's definitely possible.

  I think that my point still stands: doing good animations is quite a task, and being done with either motion capture or by hand it takes a lot of effort AND money. Up to Path of Fire, that effort was noticeable (look at how detailed and intrincated were things as the mantras for the Firebrand), but after that ANet wasn't as clear about doing more expansions and when they finally released EoD it felt rushed and that is quite noticeable in animations: most of them were re-used from other characters and weapons (I can quote than over 80% of Vindicator skills came from other professions and when Mist Unleashed was redone they borrow up the animation from the Bladesworn and the Specter elite is from the Vindicator dodge, etc. Why? Because re-using is less expensive than making entirely new ones.

   That entirely aligns with a design philosophy which spents almost 0 in marketing sand is focusing in limiting the expenses made in the game to the bare minimun. You can see it in everywere: no new raids, barely any new fractals, strikes being solo bosses from the campaing asnd still took them months to add new mechanics to the challenge modes, no new content for WvW, no new content for PvP...   Like it or not, this game is in crusing mode. I love the game, but this is the truth.

[Panda.1967]

14 hours ago, Randin.5701 said:

Pretty sure they don't use motion capture in GW2. To the best of my knowledge, regular hand-made animations aren't the sort of thing typically farmed out to external studios.

They didn’t. I remember it being mentioned way back when GW2 was first announced that all animations were keyframed by hand because they wanted to capture specific personality and character quirks in the movement of each race that mocap just wouldn’t do justice. They did mocap dances (and only dances) in GW1… so it is possible they may have done the same for the GW2 dances too… since dance animations were added sometime after the first alpha test, well after when they stated that all animations were made by hand… and the dance animations lack the same personality and quirkiness that all other animations have on each race…

Edited November 14, 2023 by Panda.1967

[BumboJumbo.1308]

Yeah I really wish the devs would spend time on new animations for skills only for the same skills to be changed because of balance. What an amazing idea. Totally not a waste of resources.

[Buran.3796]

7 hours ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Yeah I really wish the devs would spend time on new animations for skills only for the same skills to be changed because of balance. What an amazing idea. Totally not a waste of resources.

   Do you think that the Warrior mainers having all the moveset from their weapon "stolen" from DD and Rev will be as happy as the Rev mainers having their scepter with entirely original animations that resembles a lightsaber? Regardless of the usefulness and practicality, having some differenciation helps the game, the same as in Tekken Kazuya and Heihachi started sharing most of their moveset but along the time the Mishimas have been evolving and Kazuya, Heihachi, Jin and Evil Jin move differently and even their EWGF is different. Also: balance is cheaper to get than animations, since you can make a skill weak or striong just changing some numbers.

[JormagSorbet.8079]

5 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Do you think that the Warrior mainers having all the moveset from their weapon "stolen" from DD and Rev will be as happy as the Rev mainers having their scepter with entirely original animations that resembles a lightsaber? 

I don't think the rev lightsaber is new either, that auto swing was originally used by Scarlet Briar.

By the way, they -do- still do bespoke animations. They just usually submit them for things less subject to change. Like, for instance, emotes and:

The person that mentioned animations not being changed due to potential reworks may have a point. Would still like to see some new skills though.

Edited November 15, 2023 by JormagSorbet.8079

[Strider.7849]

The worst weapons so far seem to be ranger maces, elementalist pistol, and warrior staff.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

I dislike the rehashed animations but I've come to accept this is standard anet practice now.

That said, a lot of people here don't know what they're talking about 😆

[Puck.3697]

It's likely the animations teams budget has been shrunk and as so is forced to recycle more animations. Either this, or the teams too small to have someone input as many hours as required to develope enough new skills. 

[DungeonMaster.3012]

Bro, Ai is so based we will soon be able to prompt whole games. I bet it will be possible in 2-3 years. Hiring animators would be a waste...

[Yasai.3549]

11 hours ago, DungeonMaster.3012 said:

Bro, Ai is so based we will soon be able to prompt whole games. I bet it will be possible in 2-3 years. Hiring animators would be a waste...

Bro, why prompt at all bro. We already have this effect we used for another class, just copy it over and they won't realize it. Genius! 

[Batalix.2873]

Someone mentioned a while back that ANet had decided to stop using a mocap studio, I believe after PoF and around the time IBS was developed.

No idea on the validity of that claim, but it would sync up a lot with the game's development trajectory. Both with how development became so skeletal around the release of IBS, as well as all the other cutbacks and radical shifts in vision that happened around the 2019/2020 layoffs/quits. IBS represents a real low point for the game from which it has never really recovered, where clearly resources were cut back, and supposedly to work on "other projects" (some sources indicate another IP, others indicate that the devs wanted to start preliminary work on GW3; either way, ANet had ambitions to diversify its offerings but did not have the resources or planning to deliver; ultimately whatever those projects were got scrapped and then ANet had to pivot all resources back to GW2 expansions to stay afloat). Glassdoor reviews frequently are consistent with this, indicating that management lacked a clear and lasting vision and was constantly changing its mind on the direction ANet wanted to take GW2.

It's really quite sad, that ANet never had the resources or savvy to build out its IP, and that GW2 has suffered so much in all its attempts to do so. I think it is quite likely the reason why GW2 is still "conserving resources" is either (a) they are still extremely strapped and are just barely keeping the studio alive while GW2 dies a slow death, or (b) are stretching their resources to work on GW3 or whatever their next long-term source of revenue will be. Because ANet knows GW2 has a shelf life and will not be able to sustain them forever as every MMO starts to come out with flashy weapon effects and dragon mounts. I cannot really say at this point if ANet will give into larger third party properties or keep trying to preserve its IP rights to the GW lore, but either way they will remain a "one-game company" for a long time yet due to mismanagement of the brand and company resources/talents.

[fatihso.7258]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:37 AM, Buran.3796 said:

I think that my point still stands: doing good animations is quite a task, and being done with either motion capture or by hand it takes a lot of effort AND money.

Hmm then Pearly Abyss must be rich as hell as they add endless stream of animations for their games nonstop and frequently. At minimum a company that never fails to give feeling that they do care their game. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by fatihso.7258

[Dawdler.8521]

On 11/21/2023 at 6:34 PM, DungeonMaster.3012 said:

Bro, Ai is so based we will soon be able to prompt whole games. I bet it will be possible in 2-3 years. Hiring animators would be a waste...

Bro even playing the game would be a waste.
 

Just prompt the AI to create the game, play the game, finish the game and then write a summary so you can ask the AI to read it loud while you sleep so maybe you know what happened unconsciously in the morning.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 11/14/2023 at 6:45 AM, Randin.5701 said:

Pretty sure they don't use motion capture in GW2.

Hmm, strange. I remember them publishing a video in which we saw them motion capture new animations. That was a long time ago, I don't even recall in which context it was posted, but I remember some devs doing the moves and having fun. I think this was released during one of the Living World periods.

[Danis.6079]

Its seems that they just dont care. There are some skills that display animations in certain weapons and in others do nothing. For example on renegade, if u use a summon skill with GS it wont display the proper animation. But if u do with a sword or shortbow it will. It feels bad overall.

[Furball.1236]

I'm positively surprised by the animations of warrior staffs today. Nice work on this one!

[Batalix.2873]

Update after trying the weapons.

Whooooooo this is so disappointing. They reuse not only animations but so many effects. I see, offhandedly:

* Mesmer rifle 2 and 3 skills steal Mirage effects, specifically the light pink sand trail from axes and the mirage cloak "sunflare" effect. Which sucks because this is easily the most well-designed new weapon as a matter of (a) having a clear concept that (b) isn't too complex/janky and (c) compliments the original weapon power level.

* Ranger Mace 2 steals Ventari Table effects, Mace 5 steals J-Mech effects, and I thiiiink Mace 3 ground effect is from another profession as well.

* Necro Sword 2 is just Reaper feathers. Necro Sword 1 feels Harby but would need to actually play Harby to confirm.

* Engi Shortbow is just transparently recycling effects, which to me is very sad to see when they had a different angle they could have bent the theming--instead of using *profession* magic, they could have used *other* magic from the Djinn (already there in animated sand), Exalted, Ritualists. As it stands it just feels like the laziest "greatest hits" list of skills/abilities, most of which are "wells": Chrono wells, Scourge shades, Specter wells, and I guess Guardian burning because we just gotta hammer home that Guardian is about literally nothing else than angrily burning things.

I can't pinpoint Warrior staff effects so they are safe for now; the bigger problem with Warrior is reusing Rev/DD animations. It should have at least had a spear throw. Rev scepter is...fine, even though the main scepter combo just feels like it recycles Sword 2 animation which makes me just want to play Shiro instead. And Ele and Guardian exist, with their dumb edgy pistols and narrowly pigeonholed concepts.

I didn't try Thief axe. Seemed the laziest/most uninspired of the concepts, although wow some of these other weapons come close to it.

I am so sad that the game doesn't have any inspired talent or budget behind it anymore. These weapons are practically a fan mod, cobbled together from existing assets and code. Though in fairness, after the EoD especs I don't know why we would have expected anything different. Either way, what is clear to me with weaponsmastery and now this is that especs are slowly being deleted, being robbed of the weapons and now the special effects that made them feel unique. The current dev team clearly does not like or respect the what the espec system was designed to be. And while I am not totally married to needing an espec system, all this mish-mashing of disparate design philosophies while trying to pretend the game still has integrity of design is just embarrassing. I hope that, if this is truly the direction the devs want to take the game, that they at least find the resources and balls to commit to it fully; just remove especs altogether and just bake their mechanics into the weapons like they did here.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

If by chance , the devs/ decision makers read this thread, please , I request them to make unique animations for weapon skills... Wish they could be transparent about what's needed to make this possible... They could've increased the cost of soto expansion or something

[Zzik.5873]

On 11/16/2023 at 2:41 AM, Strider.7849 said:

The worst weapons so far seem to be ranger maces, elementalist pistol, and warrior staff.

Engi shortbow have literaly 2 animation... the auto and 2 to 4... the auto is not even a chain its just 1 cheap animation looping...

[Strider.7849]

22 hours ago, Zzik.5873 said:

Engi shortbow have literaly 2 animation... the auto and 2 to 4... the auto is not even a chain its just 1 cheap animation looping...

That quote was prior to the beta, was speculation based on the videos released. I agree with you though, after the beta dropped and we could test all weapons, engineers shortbow came out the most underwhelming.  The concept however I liked. I think if they increase the radius and improve some of the coefficients/effects, it would be a pretty cool weapon.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

On 11/11/2023 at 1:53 AM, Zekent.3652 said:

This, every single staff warrior shown animation was just reused.

Reused animations is not exactly a new thing in any game, probably even ones you find to be your most beloved. If the rigging already exists then why not reuse it?

The issue with Staffs animations is that Line Breaker (Staff 3) in particular is using the Rush animation so it comes with all of the jank. They need to not do that.

[Hotride.2187]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:51 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Bro even playing the game would be a waste.
 

Just prompt the AI to create the game, play the game, finish the game and then write a summary so you can ask the AI to read it loud while you sleep so maybe you know what happened unconsciously in the morning.

Wait, the AI wont sleep instead of you, too? How disappointing...

[starlinvf.1358]

On 11/28/2023 at 8:17 PM, Danis.6079 said:

Its seems that they just dont care. There are some skills that display animations in certain weapons and in others do nothing. For example on renegade, if u use a summon skill with GS it wont display the proper animation. But if u do with a sword or shortbow it will. It feels bad overall.

Your mom buys you underwear for Xmas.   She cares enough to get you something, but can't afford something nicer.   So "utilitarian" it is.   

Meanwhile Danny gets a PS5, a sports ball scholarship, and 3 Pro teams lined up to sign contracts.  

 

If this seems non-sequitur, its because you're confusing concern, capability, and opportunity as being similar things.  

[Zenith.7301]

PoF was the last xpac we got new animations for elite spec skills and weapons instead of recycled animations from other classes.

Vindicator starting in EoD had the same greatsword swing animation for the autoattack chain, greatsword 2 and the second part of greatsword 4, and greatsword 2 was only changed to have a more distinct swing animation months later.

It still has the same copypasted reaper Gravedigger animation for greatsword 5.

The vindicator alliance stance recycles the same swirly fart cloud across several of its utility skills with the same exact color palette and vfx. Compare that to Herald and Renegade.

Specter uses the same autoattack chain swing animation on scepter as warrior mainhand axe.

Virtuoso dagger uses the same melee swing animation despite being a ranged dagger weapon. Compare that to the unique animations for mesmer greatsword as a ranged weapon.

Also, it's no accident mesmer hasn't received a single new phantasm for the past 2 expansions.

Anet is not the same studio as when the original GW2 and HoT came out. At least with SoO it got good metas back more toward the standard of HoT, although HoT remains the best designed xpac by far. PoF core maps were gorgeous but were quickly abandoned despite its many design flaws.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Zenith.7301