Concerns about the future of the game for veteran players

[AlenaVolkova.8179]

What do any of that have anything to do with old players leaving or staying? If the game is no longer fun, they leave, simple as it is.

I stayed since 2018, still playing today, because I love gold, and now my friends are joining GW2 party thanks to release on Steam, making me want to keep playing further because all those big major world events, strikes, fractals, instance meta, etc. They are all waiting for us to explore.

[notebene.3190]

I don't know if I get a label, but I played since before release through to the beginning of HoT, when I took about a 13 month break and came back in the middle of S3 and haven't look back since. I have one legendary weapon, and am working on my first set of legendary gear (and have started collecting materials for a 2nd and 3rd weight). Enjoying myself since August.

Don't have a point, just wanted to participate.

[Farohna.6247]

I feel like "hardcore" isn't the main bread and butter of GW2.  More like a small sliver.  So it would make sense to cater to the majority.  Just the way it is.  

Sometimes it's a good thing when people quit playing for a while.  You're seeing people leaving, and new people joining...that's healthy.  I played another MMO for many years until most of my friends in game left to go on to do better things irl.  I found the moment when it was time for me to leave and go find a different game...when there was nothing left I wished to achieve, when I had no one left that I socialized with.  A new generation came to that game and it continues.  I came to GW2.  If it no longer fills your entertainment needs or interest and is no longer fun, take a pause and play something else.  

It's a mini expansion...not sure what big and grand content was expected?  The gradual release gives players time to work on content and not just power through it (I guess the hardcore players do) and no different than a living world season.  The addition of the new legendary armor has been asked for by many for a long time, and the majority do play open world content.  So while it's not for the player who has it all already, it works fine for the majority and for newer players. 

I'm enjoying my time.  But I've only played five years, I don't have legendary armor, just weapons and trinkets.  I play WvW, strikes, open world content, not interested in raids, higher tier fractals, or rp.  I love when they can include more content for everyone and everything but it's really not possible, especially when you're core group is casual and not hardcore. 

[Ashen.2907]

The gem store has 11 years of content for new players whereas long term veterans might only have the newest single addition to spend money on. A new player is worth more money, now, to the company than is a veteran.

[Danikat.8537]

5 hours ago, Darklord Roy.2514 said:

This has been the case for many years, and is an ailment of the MMO genre in general. Long time players of every MMO ever will go through regular periods of taking a break for extended periods, either due to content droughts or finding a newer game to play, or various other factors. It is not a specific GW2 issue, nor is it even a *new* GW2 issue. Older players will always come and go, and there's nothing Anet or any other company can do to prevent that. It is human nature.

That's certainly the case for me. Earlier this year I wasn't playing as much as I had been because there wasn't as much that interested me going on in GW2 and other games came out which I wanted to play, then the last few months I've wanted to play more but due to various real-life event I couldn't. This evening I managed to do a few dungeon paths, but that might well be it for this weekend because I don't think I'll have time again until Monday.

[Cuks.8241]

2 strikes per expansion are just not enough. I really had high hopes after Eod strikes which were a nice step up from IBS. I really like those and the last one, OLC was my fav. But the Soto ones, not enough and a big step down from Eod. Cosmic is really just boring and Febe is ok. And thats it.

I'm not a CM raider but I do enjoy normal strikes, fractals and sometimes raids. I'm still enjoying wvw and spvp but those dont get any development anymore also. And no, what we're getting in Wvw are not real updates. It's taking them literary years to implement a new matchmaking system and they just keep delaying and narrowing the scope. And while open world is fun for me, I do want something a little more challenging from a game from time to time.

I'm not even sure whats the point of these strikes. The soto fights are so simplistic and partly rehashed story fights, it really shouldnt require a lot of dev time to get this out. And 2 per expansion is not enough to satisfy anyone that enjoys such content. I don't think they know  where to go with this. It's like they think they need to get some instances out for the sake of having them but they can only assign that 1 new guy in the corner that has some free time during making coffee to it and thats it. 

[Pinkeh.4207]

I am surprised Anet doesn't cater to the whales more often. 🤑

[KindredPhoenyx.8976]

SOTO getting new players in and improving QoL for ease of access is a good thing. In fact the game needs it right now.

I too have been hit by the wave of sheer boredom and found nothing to do, but I at least acknowledge it's a me issue and now I'm taking a break til all of SOTO is released to stave off this issue because I realised "man, 9 years really is a long time to have played this game non-stop huh?". Nayos wasn't impressive to me so I'm just waiting til everything is out for that map to experience it in full. There's some amazing games out right now, and some more coming out soon in 2024. I'd really just advise hanging back a bit and coming back later so it feels more satisfying to experience.

Heck, I might even just do a full expansion re-run to refresh myself.

GW2 has the advantage of not being like FF/WoW/insert MMO here with gear treadmill where you HAVE to keep up every 3 months or you fall behind: it'll all still be here when you (and I) come back exactly as you (we) left it.

Edited December 9, 2023 by KindredPhoenyx.8976

[Smurfiness.3714]

Been here 9 years and was just logging in for the easy dailies. SOTO got me playing at least an hour a day. Don't understand the whinings.

[kiroho.4738]

16 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I see veterans I have known for years leaving the game or only sporadically logging in anymore

In general that's pretty normal. 11 years is a long time, life changes, the game changes, priorities and tastes changes.

 

16 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I am wondering if it is ANet's deliberate intention to attract and only cater to new players now?

Soto indeed is focussing on new players. Which makes sense, for 11 years we had one big story where you always had to know everything from release on to understand the whole story. In other words for 11 years the game preferred veteran players.

Now with the big arc being completed and a whole new arc started, it only makes sense to focus more on new players with this "new beginning".
 

16 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Are hardcore players who have been around since release no longer lucrative customers?

They never were from begin on.
That's why raid developement stopped (too less players playing them). That's why we got strikes and why strikes are easier. That's why raids later got an "easy mode".
Hardcore content is and always was a very small niche.

 

16 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Or what other reason is there for us to be left without anything fun to do in our favorite MMORPG?

I have a lot of fun with Soto and I am a veteran Player day 1 (even since GW1).
I can't complain.

If you have nothing fun to do, you might want to take a break.
GW2 is very break friendly. You won't loose anything when taking a break.

Edited December 9, 2023 by kiroho.4738

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Anything that can't last forever, won't.  Everybody is going to get bored or move on with their life eventually.  To put this into perspective, the real question isn't why other people leave, but why we've stayed, because we're in the minority here.  

[Molesworth.1684]

I do sympathise with OP's opinion.  I've played GW2 continuously since the February after launch, and though not a hardcore player, I'm certainly a veteran.

However, I think you have to look at things philosophically:  first and foremost, GW2 needs to make a profit from sales of the game and gem store sales, otherwise it will cease to exist.  New players must be more likely to buy gems with hard cash, since it's very difficult to progress in the game without getting yourself more bank slots, bag slots, etc etc, let alone being tempted by all the various skins.  I certainly very rarely buy gems these days, since I'm well kitted out with the essentials.

Also, it's always been true that stuff tends to get nerfed after its initial introduction. For example,  I remember toiling in HoT to collect the mats to make Astralaria; later they added a lot more pods in Dragon Stand and increased the time you have after the meta ends to harvest them, among other modifications.   I choose to regard the time I spent doing stuff that's been nerfed, as entertainment which I enjoyed at the time.  I still find enjoyment in the game, although I agree too with another post that there's much more 'copy/paste' in the new content, and repetitive tasks (looking at you, rifts....)

 

 

[Holmindeboks.3490]

23 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I see veterans I have known for years leaving the game or only sporadically logging in anymore, while my guild chats have been filling up with new names of new players. I am beginning to see a pattern here:

With...

• the recent Steam release,
• the fact that new legendary armor sets were made SotO-only, so that new players who start with SotO can grind for the QoL convenience,
• some mounts and gliding being made available in an easier way,
• the new in-game shortcuts provided by the Wizard's Vault and the Gem Store,
• the small size of Update 1,
• the increase in no-fun grind achievements,
• the lack of exciting new instanced content (of proper difficulty),

... and some other recent aspects in the development of the game, I am wondering if it is ANet's deliberate intention to attract and only cater to new players now?

Are hardcore players who have been around since release no longer lucrative customers? Or what other reason is there for us to be left without anything fun to do in our favorite MMORPG?
 

Making content for hc players is wasting time because of horizontal progress. I mean. You cant get better then legendary. Those players are already maxed out (full legendary geared) so the content that they work on for a year gets cleared within a week as if its nothing. Veteran players are often (i think) also rich because they have not much to spend gold on. Further veterans are the supported players who spend cash on gems because they love the game. But they stop spending if they dont get new content and leave as you said. Sure horizontal progress isnt everything. How long would you do a new raid for fun without a reward because you dont need any upgrades. Its probably not even a challange. If claimed title and achievement then its only skins you can get. And with overload magnetite shards you can probably already buy all new skins and mini’s. Meta stats are above average. I mean they cant make a raid cm lvl and mark it as normal because then only a small amount of players are able to clear it. To be fair. But the skilled players rush through it and are bored fast. 
 

and anet needs money to keep the game alive. And thats from new players. I was stuck with the game but i really wanted to play and like it so in 2016 i bought hot for 100 euro with the 4k gems. So if all new players think this way… all my bags and bank were full and i was out of bagspace. 

[Ashantara.8731]

First off, thanks for all the elaborate responses, I really enjoyed reading everyone's perspective.

Some were asking what was expected from a mini-expansion. Well, what I expected was that each update would uphold the quality and quantity of the expansion's core release, but it didn't. I also expected the CO strike CM to be great fun, because I really liked the Old Lion's Court CM and the Silent Surf fractal CM, but that didn't meet my expectation, either.

And then seeing ANet adventizing SotO Update 1 as a "major" update felt like pure cynicm, because I don't think it could have been any smaller than that (okay, unless they had repeated the Gyala Delve tunnel fiasco 😄).

So I am concerned about the next two SotO Updates (Will they deliver or disappoint?) and the next expansion(s) in the making, and what the future of the game will look like. I hope they can provide updates that don't vary as much in quantity and quality.

[Caitmonster.9036]

On 12/8/2023 at 6:34 AM, Ashantara.8731 said:

the increase in no-fun grind achievements,

the Slayer and Weaponmaster achievements from the core game say hello.

Sounds like this is a burnout thing tbh. I've been playing less myself, but it's good to know I don't miss much when RL subverts my game time.

[Junkpile.7439]

Bosses would need some kind of ai. Impossible do hard content for players who copy builds, tactics and rotations from interweb.

[Farohna.6247]

3 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

First off, thanks for all the elaborate responses, I really enjoyed reading everyone's perspective.

Some were asking what was expected from a mini-expansion. Well, what I expected was that each update would uphold the quality and quantity of the expansion's core release, but it didn't. I also expected the CO strike CM to be great fun, because I really liked the Old Lion's Court CM and the Silent Surf fractal CM, but that didn't meet my expectation, either.

And then seeing ANet adventizing SotO Update 1 as a "major" update felt like pure cynicm, because I don't think it could have been any smaller than that (okay, unless they had repeated the Gyala Delve tunnel fiasco 😄).

So I am concerned about the next two SotO Updates (Will they deliver or disappoint?) and the next expansion(s) in the making, and what the future of the game will look like. I hope they can provide updates that don't vary as much in quantity and quality.

Since I was one of the people asking what you expected, thanks for your answer!  I think it is very reasonable to expect higher quality in a mini expansion since it should be less content than a bigger one...shouldn't that equate to more focused effort and a better product, which I thought was the intention on top of more frequent content.  A reasonable assumption.  

I have not tried the challenge modes yet for those, so I can't express my opinion.  But I'm sorry they aren't meeting your expectations or enjoyment.  

I think they hype it a lot to get you excited and I feel like many players hyped it too much for themselves.  I guess I'm jaded and worked for too many places that were full of hype rubbish so I have low expectations and seldom believe anything, so it's really up from there lol.  After 11 years, I don't see much being revolutionary.   But it's like comfort food, it's safe and familiar and cozy.  

I don't worry so much about the future of a game.  It's a hobby, a time waster, a time filler, some quick dopamine, something to keep hands and mind occupied, it's not a life.   If you're trying to determine what it will be like so you can decide how to spend your money, or invest your time in, that's understandable but not worth wasting the effort on.  You can speculate and worry over it, but only the devs really know and you have to wait for release.  I would not get my hopes up or have unrealistic expectations...it won't be hardcore.  That's not the target audience.

[TheNurgle.4825]

14 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

2 strikes per expansion are just not enough.

You get 2 normal strikes and 2 CM versions and at least CO NM and CO CM are different.

14 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I'm not a CM raider but I do enjoy normal strikes, fractals and sometimes raids.

You just play only part of SOTO content and complain that it has not enough content.

4 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Some were asking what was expected from a mini-expansion. Well, what I expected was that each update would uphold the quality and quantity of the expansion's core release, but it didn't.

We all knew what we get each update. Also how many features you can develop and test in 3 months?

4 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I also expected the CO strike CM to be great fun, because I really liked the Old Lion's Court CM and the Silent Surf fractal CM, but that didn't meet my expectation, either.

Having fun is really subjective. General issue with instanced content is how many ppl actually do it regularly. Not enough ppl doing instanced content = no resource used for that type of content.

4 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

So I am concerned about the next two SotO Updates (Will they deliver or disappoint?) and the next expansion(s) in the making, and what the future of the game will look like. I hope they can provide updates that don't vary as much in quantity and quality.

Again we know exactly what we get in next two updates so your comment make little sense. About next expansion(s) that is good question. Based on SOTO timeline we should get announcement for next expansion in spring 2024.

[Cuks.8241]

25 minutes ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

 

You just play only part of SOTO content and complain that it has not enough content.

I never said I dont ever play cm strikes. I said Im not cm raider which means I dont consistently do full cm clears.

2 instances per year with 2 modes each (which is hardly a new instance just a few number tweaks and a few new mechanics) is below indie games standard.

And youre right I dont really play much soto content. Because much of it is kinda boring and low standard. Rifts, observatory strike even convergences are below the standard I would expect from gw2. Doesnt help that many of the assets, events are just old copies. Eod strikes kept me going for a year with at least weekly clears. I have very little interest stepping in soto strikes after just a few clears. And you can see it in lfg. Older content just has more traffic.

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Snip

We all knew what we get each update. Also how many features you can develop and test in 3 months?

Snip

 

Not really we already know they were working on the last map before SoTO even released so they have more then 3 months to do said content.

They are working on the next mini expansion already mate.

[Lucy.3728]

On 12/8/2023 at 12:48 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

and hardcore veterans. There is nothing left to do for the latter.

Time to take a break.
Return later (or don't). A long pause can do wonders for the motivation (or for real life).

I took a break of 7 years and am not bored yet (been back for 3 years).
If I was, I'd take a break again.

I know hardcore veterans too that play something else now and only return to GW2 when asked to join some event with friends. Others found other ways to busy themselves, like extra accounts.

[kiroho.4738]

6 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Not really we already know they were working on the last map before SoTO even released so they have more then 3 months to do said content.

They are working on the next mini expansion already mate.

Even if that's true, the release interval is just offset.
The dev interval is still the same as the release interval.

You won't have more time by starting and finishing half a year early.

[Knighthonor.4061]

I dont care about none of that. Iam a vet player and I want new WvW content

[Ashantara.8731]

On 12/9/2023 at 4:35 PM, TheNurgle.4825 said:

You just play only part of SOTO content and complain that it has not enough content.

In any case, at the moment, with the huge disappointment that was Update 1, it feels a lot like they published 2/3 of SotO on release and are now splitting the remaining 1/3 between three mini-updates. That's basically nine (!) months without proper[*] content releases before the next expansion release.

*) refers to quantity, but also overall quality of those mini-updates
 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[TheNurgle.4825]

3 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

In any case, at the moment, with the huge disappointment that was Update 1, it feels a lot like they published 2/3 of SotO on release and are now splitting the remaining 1/3 between three mini-updates. That's basically nine (!) months without proper[*] content releases before the next expansion release.

*) refers to quantity, but also overall quality of those mini-updates
 

Why do you think that update 1 was huge disappointment?

Also reading your whole comment show us that you need break since you ignore reality. Look at it this way GW2 is great in way that you can take few months break from game and after that get back in without almost any effort.