The Skyscale Epidemic in Open World

[Randulf.7614]

There isn't really that much of an issue with the fireballs though. It's largely exaggerated. I'm sure there are a few instances of this (not that I've seen personally mind you), but it's neither hit the levels of a problem or an epidemic. A few odd anecdotes don't make a game wide problem that needs fixing. 

[SoulGuardian.6203]

Please allow me to politely disagree here.

What I find more of an epidemic are the roller beetles racing around open world pve, when they should have their own private racing maps, separated from open world.

But I Don't see Skyscale haters complaining about it.

This matter could be trivial to some, but feels like the end of the world for others.

In my personal experience, Skyscales don't do that much damage to begin with, and their health pool is low, and can still get hit. 

One well placed hit from a champion and the rider is dismounted, and in most cases falling to their death if they aren't quick enough to activate the glider.

So, most players still dismount to fight on the ground after a fireball or two.

If that event really happened in the desert, then it's the warrior's fault, really.

As soon as they saw the others weren't coming down, they should have just run away.

I don't know what that situation was really all about.

10 skyscales above throwing fireballs and one warrior fighting a champion, doesn't really paint much of a picture to lecture people, and use it as an excuse to try convey to Arena Net that Skyscales fireball needs to go.

Imagine how many more people would be outraged now, than the very few who are bothered by it, because F reasons.

Instead of complaining about it, try have fun with it.

I would imagine that the warrior thought they could solo tank the champion whilst the others spammed fireballs, but the warrior got overconfident. 

In any event, one isolated situation is not a reason to even consider getting rid of skyscale fireballs.

There are other, much bigger unfair nuisances in the game that need to be addressed. 

This isn't it.

 

[Astralporing.1957]

9 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

If Skyscales were not in the game it would be a non-issue. Nobody would complain about there not being a flying mount.

They'd be complaining about Raptors. Oh wait, they do complain about that.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

26 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Please allow me to politely disagree here.

What I find more of an epidemic are the roller beetles racing around open world pve, when they should have their own private racing maps, separated from open world.

But I Don't see Skyscale haters complaining about it.

This matter could be trivial to some, but feels like the end of the world for others.

In my personal experience, Skyscales don't do that much damage to begin with, and their health pool is low, and can still get hit. 

One well placed hit from a champion and the rider is dismounted, and in most cases falling to their death if they aren't quick enough to activate the glider.

So, most players still dismount to fight on the ground after a fireball or two.

If that event really happened in the desert, then it's the warrior's fault, really.

As soon as they saw the others weren't coming down, they should have just run away.

I don't know what that situation was really all about.

10 skyscales above throwing fireballs and one warrior fighting a champion, doesn't really paint much of a picture to lecture people, and use it as an excuse to try convey to Arena Net that Skyscales fireball needs to go.

Imagine how many more people would be outraged now, than the very few who are bothered by it, because F reasons.

Instead of complaining about it, try have fun with it.

I would imagine that the warrior thought they could solo tank the champion whilst the others spammed fireballs, but the warrior got overconfident. 

In any event, one isolated situation is not a reason to even consider getting rid of skyscale fireballs.

There are other, much bigger unfair nuisances in the game that need to be addressed. 

This isn't it.

 

How DARE you. This is the INTERNET! This is no place to be polite.

Actually, in response to a few of your points, and I'm being lazy so I'm not going to reformat everything to do so, I just wanted to push back. On the subject of damage, you're actually right and that's half the problem. In a bounty mission like that, fireball damage is pretty pitiful. So those skyscales  plinking away at the bounty aren't helping and that's the point. They're doing just enough damage to get credit, but not enough to really contribute. It wasn't going down with their "help" in the air, and obviously the warrior in discussion wasn't going to do it solo. But this isn't necessarily a skyscale problem as it is a player problem, BUT is is only a problem because the players are allowed to be lazy in this way. Had the skyscales not be turned into combat mounts, or never existed, then they  would have at least had to be on the ground soaking up damage or better yet, participating in the fight.

But that leads me into another one of your points that this singular event shouldn't be taken as a reason to do anything. If it was a singular event, you would be right. This is a singular example of a much greater problem. Even the OP listed two: The bounty in the desert, and the meta in Silverwaste. But those are two of many, many other cases. Not just people lazily getting bare minimum participation in events on their skyscales, but also absolutely wrecking events in low level maps where low level players are simply trying to play the game. There are a lot of issues and they are all centered around this mount and the design choices that have come with it. And while the discussion around it is probably moot, it is still worth having.

[Healix.5819]

Having a few people attack the boss while everyone else fireballs is probably optimal. It hits for around 20-30k damage (zerker) and the range is so far that you can stay outside of the event's area without scaling it, so it's free damage.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

1 hour ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

How DARE you. This is the INTERNET! This is no place to be polite.

Actually, in response to a few of your points, and I'm being lazy so I'm not going to reformat everything to do so, I just wanted to push back. On the subject of damage, you're actually right and that's half the problem. In a bounty mission like that, fireball damage is pretty pitiful. So those skyscales  plinking away at the bounty aren't helping and that's the point. They're doing just enough damage to get credit, but not enough to really contribute. It wasn't going down with their "help" in the air, and obviously the warrior in discussion wasn't going to do it solo. But this isn't necessarily a skyscale problem as it is a player problem, BUT is is only a problem because the players are allowed to be lazy in this way. Had the skyscales not be turned into combat mounts, or never existed, then they  would have at least had to be on the ground soaking up damage or better yet, participating in the fight.

But that leads me into another one of your points that this singular event shouldn't be taken as a reason to do anything. If it was a singular event, you would be right. This is a singular example of a much greater problem. Even the OP listed two: The bounty in the desert, and the meta in Silverwaste. But those are two of many, many other cases. Not just people lazily getting bare minimum participation in events on their skyscales, but also absolutely wrecking events in low level maps where low level players are simply trying to play the game. There are a lot of issues and they are all centered around this mount and the design choices that have come with it. And while the discussion around it is probably moot, it is still worth having.

Indeed.

But it's curious though,

One doesn't know who's dumb or dumber.

The warrior that thought it could solo tank a desert bounty, or the Skyscales riders that thought they could defeat it before time running out.

When that happens, nobody scores anything.

But then there's this:

27 minutes ago, Healix.5819 said:

Having a few people attack the boss while everyone else fireballs is probably optimal. It hits for around 20-30k damage (zerker) and the range is so far that you can stay outside of the event's area without scaling it, so it's free damage.

Which then would be the opposite of what the OP is saying. 

Which then raises the question on which is it?

The only way one could know for certain is to test it for themselves before jumping into precipitated conclusions. 

Still, I don't find it enough of a good reason to state that people abuse skyscale's fireball in order to get big credit on minimal effort.

Even though there are many grey areas on this issue, not just black and white, I find the OP to be over dramatising on a trivial matter.

 

The game always had leeches.

I've had people running up to my kills out of nowhere, with a Raptor, just to get credit with a finishing blow.

Others getting a quick jot on an event and then make a runner without further participation. 

But what about before mounts existed?

People always leeched of others, no matter what.

Not just in this game. Other mmos have the same problem.

You can't just demand something to be removed or restricted from a game; because it will solve absolutely nothing.

It's utter nonsense. 

Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do about leeches.

The "run against the wall" ones still exist in WvW.

Perhaps one solution would be to give ot a dismount timer for bigger targets once engaged in battle. 

Let's suggest champions or above ranks.

Other than that, I'm quite happy with things as they are.

At this point, I wouldn't change anything else.

Edited January 26 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Yasi.9065]

1. Yes, people are THAT dumb. Ofc, a war can solo a bounty. The probability isnt good though, considering its not easy. But still, not one of those players up in the sky thought about dismounting and increasing the success probability. From the cast frequency, Id even say, most didnt even really care if the bounty succeeded - hence my comparison to vultures.

2. No, I didnt help. I watched that scene in total bafflement. It was just... so totally ridiculous - and heartbreaking. And it was a bit of a "aha" experience for me. I started watching the skys more... and yes, the skyscale "tagging" thing IS spreading like an epidemic. Sure, on big events like world bosses or rift hunting, theres still a lot more people really playing the game. But even there you will see a handful of lazy skyscale leechers.

3. Autoattacks do more dmg. But more bodies on the ground also mean, champ doesnt reset, which is just as important.

4. No, Im not in favor of removing all kinds of QoL additions made to the base game. GW2 evolved, just as games evolved in general. And its not bad. Progress is good.

 

That being said, Anet really should do something. Not so much because it annoys me, and Im seeing a lot of trouble in the future if more and more players start going the "easy" route on openworld content. No, skyscale fireballs are simply unbalanced on non-soto maps. Not because they do too much dmg. But because theres no drawback of nuking mobs from safety. And because participation requirements for full loot are so ridiculously low, that the low dmg from one or two fireballs is enough to then go afk and not contribute anything again until the event ends.

So in essence, its actually three problems colaesced into one issue:

1. Fireball Nuking from Safety (balance)

2. Barely any decay on event participation

3. Ridiculous low participation requirements

The last two have been a problem for years, but together with 1. we have a perfect storm.

[idpersona.3810]

21 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

[Snip]

But that leads me into another one of your points that this singular event shouldn't be taken as a reason to do anything. If it was a singular event, you would be right. This is a singular example of a much greater problem. Even the OP listed two: The bounty in the desert, and the meta in Silverwaste. But those are two of many, many other cases. Not just people lazily getting bare minimum participation in events on their skyscales, but also absolutely wrecking events in low level maps where low level players are simply trying to play the game. There are a lot of issues and they are all centered around this mount and the design choices that have come with it. And while the discussion around it is probably moot, it is still worth having.

Pushing back (slightly) on the second example since plenty of attention has been made to the bounty. For the Silverwastes meta, it's entirely possible those players can't actually enter the fight area. Once you do the boss on one lane, you're blocked from entering on the others. I will have to go test, but I wonder if shooting fireballs from outside the room will contribute damage where said players would otherwise be dealing zero because they'd be sitting around waiting for the fight to complete. So this may or may not be a valid example of what the OP was trying to prove.

[Mell.4873]

23 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

There isn't really that much of an issue with the fireballs though. It's largely exaggerated. I'm sure there are a few instances of this (not that I've seen personally mind you), but it's neither hit the levels of a problem or an epidemic. A few odd anecdotes don't make a game wide problem that needs fixing. 

I felt way more annoyed when the semi-afk Mechanist was the thing. All your efforts to get high DPS during a boss fight with a complex rotation was useless in the face of it. 

Atleast I can have a fair go at content with some afk skyscale following me around. 

[Mell.4873]

23 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Please allow me to politely disagree here.

What I find more of an epidemic are the roller beetles racing around open world pve, when they should have their own private racing maps, separated from open world.

But I Don't see Skyscale haters complaining about it.

This matter could be trivial to some, but feels like the end of the world for others.

In my personal experience, Skyscales don't do that much damage to begin with, and their health pool is low, and can still get hit. 

You want to know other mount is OP, the Skimmer.

The Skimmer hover makes you immune to all damage, letting you skip alot of open world mechanics like traps or pulls. It's dismounting is also not an aoe (its some sort of line) so it is very easy to use to harvest resources while not triggering combat to re-mount after. 

Not to mention its the only mount that can go underwater. 

Edited January 26 by Mell.4873

[idpersona.3810]

10 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

You want to know other mount is OP, the Skiff. 

The Skiff hover makes you immune to all damage, letting you skip alot of open world mechanics like traps or pulls. It's dismounting is also not an aoe (its some sort of line) so it is very easy to use to harvest resources while not triggering combat to re-mount after. 

Not to mention its the only mount that can go underwater. 

Assuming you mean Skimmer? Skiff is the boat.

Mind you, I don't think I have ever heard of the Skimmer being referred to as OP before.

Edited January 26 by idpersona.3810

[Kiki.9450]

7 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

You want to know other mount is OP, the Skiff. 

The Skiff hover makes you immune to all damage, letting you skip alot of open world mechanics like traps or pulls. It's dismounting is also not an aoe (its some sort of line) so it is very easy to use to harvest resources while not triggering combat to re-mount after. 

Not to mention its the only mount that can go underwater. 

I hope you mean the skimmer. If your skiff is underwater, you're sorta doing it wrong. 

[Ashen.2907]

10 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

 

Never mind. Others covered it.

Edited January 26 by Ashen.2907

[Kiki.9450]

Just now, Ashen.2907 said:

Isnt there a mastery for the skimmer to be able to go under water?

You actually have to go unlock it too. It's not like the other masteries where you just train it up with mastery points and experience.

[Mell.4873]

3 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Assuming you mean Skimmer? Skiff is the boat.

Mind you, I don't think I have ever heard of the Skimmer being referred to as OP before.

Oh yeah, I change that

[Ashen.2907]

3 minutes ago, Kiki.9450 said:

I hope you mean the skimmer. If your skiff is underwater, you're sorta doing it wrong. 

New skiff mastery: Submarine.

[Kiki.9450]

Just now, Ashen.2907 said:

New skiff mastery: Submarine.

Does it come with a bunch of terrible "you're all going to heck" memes? 😄

[Sobx.1758]

On 1/25/2024 at 11:46 PM, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

I claimed that Skyscales would be a bad thing for open maps. This thread is calling Skyscales an Epidemic. I'm pretty sure I was on point. The fireballs are just exacerbating the issue that was already present from the start.

If you think you were somehow "on point", you didn't read what OP actually wrote. He's talking about fireball allowing players to easly leech events from the air while in reality not even realistically contributing anything. Hence the subsequent solutions he proposed which, again, don't have much to do with what you're talking about.

Edited January 27 by Sobx.1758

[Buzzbugs.1236]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If you think you were somehow "on point", you didn't read what OP actually wrote. He's talking about fireball allowing players to easly leech events from the air while in reality not even realistically contributing anything. Hence the subsequent solutions he proposed which, again, don't have much to do with what you're talking about.

It has everything to do what I'm talking about..

My original complaint is that flying mounts made it easier to circumvent obstacles to reach events faster, leaving other players behind who may miss out on participation. Fireballs don't exactly help alleviate this, does it? Really try to think about what I'm saying. It's not that difficult...

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

It has everything to do what I'm talking about..

My original complaint is that flying mounts made it easier to circumvent obstacles to reach events faster, leaving other players behind who may miss out on participation. Fireballs don't exactly help alleviate this, does it? Really try to think about what I'm saying. It's not that difficult...

And that's not what OP is talking about. Re-read his post and his proposed solutions which don't target anything you were apparently complaining in the past, which now you're bringing up despite having nothing to do with what this thread actually talks about, just in a terrible attempt to say "I told you so!" when you in fact did not tell anyone so, because it's a different complaint.

If skyscales were leaving people behind, it's their bad mount usage to blame, not "skyscale existing".

Edited January 27 by Sobx.1758

[Forum Moderator.3074]

Hey, I would like to remind you all to keep discussions civil and constructive.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

They made the Skyscale too OP, and thus made all the other mounts fairly useless, which apparently according to this forum is completely fine lol.  I dunno why they dont nerf skyscale a bit or buff all the other mounts so that they do more things as well.  Either way Skyscale is so OP I use it probably 90% of the time and you can now even use it to just play the game and tag meta events, so you dont really ever have to get off of it, its pretty silly.

 

I for one will continue to "not play the game" and use the skyscale to tag things until they nerf it, might as well take advantage of the most OP thing in the game that is apparently legit and totally intended gameplay.

 

my favorite thing to exclaim in map chat (in all caps of course) while im spamming fireballs is "IM HELPING"

Edited January 27 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Tiviana.2650]

I love the fireball attack feels like riding a real dragon! But I can understand people get upset when they are on the ground fighting and everyone else hoovering on skyscales. I think for regular mobs and world stuff skyscale should be left alone, but for group events like world bosses bounties maybe implement a no fly zone around them when the boss is up

Edited January 27 by Tiviana.2650

[Liewec.2896]

call me crazy if you want but i want MORE mounted combat options!

and yep those players not helping are being foolish, the fireball is nice, but its not really for fighting bosses...

don't blame the tool because some players are using it poorly!

[Linken.6345]

2 minutes ago, Liewec.2896 said:

call me crazy if you want but i want MORE mounted combat options!

and yep those players not helping are being foolish, the fireball is nice, but its not really for fighting bosses...

don't blame the tool because some players are using it poorly!

Yes please

a claw slash attack on raptor.

bunny kick.

skimmer tail whip.

bite attack infilicting bleeding on jackal.

a pounce that knockdown on warclaw

and a grab wing flap up and drop attack from the griffon.