Deadeye, undisputed king of wvw.

[TheGrimm.5624]

11 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

If that title is taken then what, the willbender is the undisputed queen of WvW?

Well maybe that makes sense.

I don't know Willie doesn't sound like a Queen and based on the threads, maybe Emperor?

So for Queen is it Harbi or Caty? Which have we seen more threads on? I guess Reny old chap is just a Duke.  

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

I mean....my DPS mirage (no macros) has about a 70% win rate vs em and my DPS druid (Staff/LB) has an even better one. Its rare I find a DE that I consistently lose against and im probably just an average player. Maybe I have a lot of practice vs them who knows.

[Dagger.2035]

7 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

There's already a short cd to backstab and they'd have to restack stealth. It would make more sense to change stealth and stealth skills to be less frequent but more deliberate and decisive. Why make some janky change as a crutch for yourself because you can't cleave or cc that would just shift focus on another gimmick? 

The cooldown didn't exist in the beginning of the game and it should have never been added.  It seems like a quick and dirty fix to try and balance stealth.  We seem stuck with it since most thieves' abuse stealth and prefer it since it allows them to setup for a retry.  A higher quality change would be to have all stealth attacks automatically reveal. This would both add more counterplay to stealth and prevent the cooldown from locking non-stealth builds from using auto-attacks.

[Dagger.2035]

6 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I don't know Willie doesn't sound like a Queen and based on the threads, maybe Emperor?

So for Queen is it Harbi or Caty? Which have we seen more threads on? I guess Reny old chap is just a Duke.  

I think this logic means Deadeyes should be the Joker of WvW.  Deadeyes run away from good builds, and only exists to harass zerg builds and noobs.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

On 2/5/2024 at 5:13 AM, oatsnjuices.1698 said:

Uncatchable, un beatable, and unseeable. The deadeye is the only class where if you are good, there is virtually nothing that can beat you. 

That's true sadly.

There are some specs that can counter it but that's true ever since they decreased damage across the board.

Edited February 6 by Vasdamas Anklast.1607

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 hours ago, Dagger.2035 said:

I think this logic means Deadeyes should be the Joker of WvW.  Deadeyes run away from good builds, and only exists to harass zerg builds and noobs.

We see some DE posts but not a ton. More general thief posts. I wouldn't label them as joker or keeping to the Medieval theme, Jesters.  

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

We see some DE posts but not a ton. More general thief posts. I wouldn't label them as joker or keeping to the Medieval theme, Jesters.  

I would be fine with labeling thieves the Suicide Squad Harley Quinn of WvW to show just how far they’ve fallen.

 

[Aeolus.3615]

On 2/4/2024 at 11:46 PM, Burnfall.9573 said:

WvW Community want to hear it directly from Anet mouth

would be something like:

We heard that comunity want stealth fixed so we will give more boon spam and reduce all quoficients so u feel forced to stack more minstrells in a blob, if u dont the game will auto alt-f4.

[cyberzombie.7348]

Eh, my killshot warrior tends to disagree. 

[kash.9213]

15 hours ago, Dagger.2035 said:

The cooldown didn't exist in the beginning of the game and it should have never been added.  It seems like a quick and dirty fix to try and balance stealth.  We seem stuck with it since most thieves' abuse stealth and prefer it since it allows them to setup for a retry.  A higher quality change would be to have all stealth attacks automatically reveal. This would both add more counterplay to stealth and prevent the cooldown from locking non-stealth builds from using auto-attacks.

Ya, Stealth should be more about a plotted approach or for masked map travel. As long as it's a sustainable mitigation people are going to sustain with, especially since it's do or die with the rate of fire in general across builds in WvW. Use of space with movement skills and Control skills should be the primary source of mitigation, not being more frequent, but maybe a reliable buffer of modifiers across the animations. 

[Codename T.2847]

WvW players when an elite spec within a class specifically designed to do well inside the worlds of roaming/dueling but sucks everywhere else does well inside the worlds of roaming/dueling but sucks everywhere else 

Edit: okay maybe a bit too well...

Edited February 6 by Codename T.2847

[Dagger.2035]

I guess that's my problem with this thread and anti-thief threads in general.  When you look at what the other professions can do and the versatility of their builds, the thief appears to be the worst profession to play in WvW.  You can try to switch thief builds to fulfill multiple WvW roles, but if you do anything besides roaming you will be on an inferior build.  I can't even remember the last time I've come across a good thief solo roamer.  When I think of some of the strongest solo roamers I've faced, I can only think of Catalysts, Renegades, Willbenders, and Harbringers.

[Burnfall.9573]

I also want to add, Anet has defended Thief Profession design with Stealth Mechanic for 11 years including this year. Once again, I want to remind The Community that, no MMO games have Guild Wars 2 Stealth Mechanic and Thief Profession Design in their games. Not even including 49 upcoming MMO's this year, so there is no point in beating ourselves to the ground for this game.

The way I see it, as long it is happening only in Guild Wars 2 and not in other games including upcoming MMO's Games, It is all good. I feel a sense of Easiness and Happiness and I hope you feel the same.

None of this Toxic Bad Design was present in Guild Wars (1). Mind you, Blizzard had long encorperated a Rogue Profession and Stealth Mechanic in WoW but the former Anet did not dare imagine of encorperating them in Guild Wars (1). Because, they knew far well ahead that,  it would end up being Toxic. It would result in being Toxic for the players experience, going against the game design and its Philosophy of creating a Healthy Competitive Gaming Experience for the players. With having Esport already in mind, having this Toxicity, would create a Disastrous gaming secenery  for the audience experiencing Healthy Competition.

For 11 Years, Anet has Intentionally Allowed one Profession-Thief Profession and One Mechanic-Stealth Mechanic: to continually and repetatively in having, absolute no consequences whatsoever to the players experience including to their environment.

Thief Profession and Stealth Mechanic Toxic Designs, has only result in creating a Hostile Destructive Experience for all players including new players and potential players alike, It has also resulted with many players leaving the game and kept them from playing the game Indefinitely with keeping Potential Players from ever playing the game. 

Rest assure in knowing that, the future looks brighter then ever (49+ Upcoming MMO Games), without having any one of them encorperating Guild Wars 2 Toxic Bad Design Professions and Mechanics in their games; such as Thief Profession, Willbender Profession, Mesmer Profession, Elementalist Profession, Revenant......One Shots, Perma-Stealth, Perma-Mobility, Perma-Stun, Perma-Blind,Perma-Immunity, Perma-Invulnerability, Perma-Daze, Perma-Stun, Perma-Immobolize, Perma-Condiions, Perma-Spam, Perma-Aoe, Perma-Invinsibility...Absense of Profession/Class Role with their Identity.

Let me be clear, -Guild Wars (1) was/is the last Guild Wars...Period!!

Let us stop beating a dead horse and forcing water down its throat and hoping that it will bring it back to life. 

As this quote states, "They're all dead. They just don't know it yet"

Guild Wars 2 Competitive scenery is long dead. It just doesn't know it yet

By the way, I've already set up a buriel grave site with this game alongside with Thief Profession and Stealth Mechanic in my mind

 I encourage The Community to do the same. You will end up feeling better. 🙂

Edited February 9 by Burnfall.9573

[itsnotmattylol.8457]

🍿

[TheGrimm.5624]

23 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

I would be fine with labeling thieves the Suicide Squad Harley Quinn of WvW to show just how far they’ve fallen.

 

I admit after granting the lol. I like the mental ones. Harley, Scarlet...its a thing right or wrong, but its a fairball. Somethings just are..

[Gehenna.3625]

On 2/4/2024 at 10:51 PM, bq pd.2148 said:

all the while being useless in most encounters on the map. surviving itself wont win the mode or the wallrunners would be the true meta.

That may be true but it's the best for ganking and that's all they're used for pretty much. It has high dps, great mobility and a lot of stealth. Nothing can compare to that combination. I'm to the point that when I see that DE aura on me (which lasts for way too long as it is), I'm just going to stand there and let him kill me. Anything else is a waste of time really.

[kash.9213]

45 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

That may be true but it's the best for ganking and that's all they're used for pretty much. It has high dps, great mobility and a lot of stealth. Nothing can compare to that combination. I'm to the point that when I see that DE aura on me (which lasts for way too long as it is), I'm just going to stand there and let him kill me. Anything else is a waste of time really.

If it's high dps then you should be killing them unless you're slacking or that player is just naturally better than you. Be mad but that's fact.

If you see the DE Mark on you, keep your kitten to a wall or make them work somehow for that backstab and dodge or even just scoot out of the cone or LoS of Death's Judgement. You shouldn't be getting hit much by DJ if at all. 

DE Stealth play is dumb for everyone. Anet can do something about that, and I doubt most people playing it would care much, but you're going hard with the drama. 

Edited February 7 by kash.9213

[Gehenna.3625]

16 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

If it's high dps then you should be killing them unless you're slacking or that player is just naturally better than you. Be mad but that's fact.

Just objectively their shots (from stealth) can hit like a truck. That has nothing to do with how skilled people are. But because of the stealth I can't see where they are most of the fight because, well, they're INVISIBLE. And for the few seconds they are visible, well, don't they have range 1500? and with the high mobility they have I can't keep up with them. So really, I may not be as skilled as the other player but it's impossible to do damage to them if it's between invisibility and out of range of my weapons.

16 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

If you see the DE Mark on you, keep your kitten to a wall or make them work somehow for that backstab and dodge or even just scoot out of the cone or LoS of Death's Judgement. You shouldn't be getting hit much by DJ if at all. 

Yeah cause there are walls everywhere. Of course I do that but there are lots of open fields and they know that.

16 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

DE Stealth play is dumb for everyone. Anet can do something about that, and I doubt most people playing it would care much, but you're going hard with the drama. 

I'm not. There's nothing I can do against them. Nothing because of the reasons above. They have long range: fact. They have good dps: fact. They have invisibility that they can keep up most of the time: fact. And when they're visible they have very fast mobility so I can't reach them, also fact.

So really, I'm not being dramatic, it's just facts. And when I use walls to hide. Which side are they on? Am I on the right side? They can stealth and get behind me again. And if I can stay out of their shot then they just go off. But afaic the only outcomes are a stalemate or I die. Unless I get very very lucky. But there's no way I can keep up with them because of the combination of stealth and high mobility. That's not drama, that's just being realistic.

Edited February 7 by Gehenna.3625

[kash.9213]

29 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Just objectively their shots (from stealth) can hit like a truck. That has nothing to do with how skilled people are. But because of the stealth I can't see where they are most of the fight because, well, they're INVISIBLE. And for the few seconds they are visible, well, don't they have range 1500? and with the high mobility they have I can't keep up with them. So really, I may not be as skilled as the other player but it's impossible to do damage to them if it's between invisibility and out of range of my weapons.

Yeah cause there are walls everywhere. Of course I do that but there are lots of open fields and they know that.

I'm not. There's nothing I can do against them. Nothing because of the reasons above. They have long range: fact. They have good dps: fact. They have invisibility that they can keep up most of the time: fact. And when they're visible they have very fast mobility so I can't reach them, also fact.

So really, I'm not being dramatic, it's just facts. And when I use walls to hide. Which side are they on? Am I on the right side? They can stealth and get behind me again. And if I can stay out of their shot then they just go off. But afaic the only outcomes are a stalemate or I die. Unless I get very very lucky. But there's no way I can keep up with them because of the combination of stealth and high mobility. That's not drama, that's just being realistic.

The mobility isn't all that comparatively at this point or for the rate of fire in WvW. That mobility also takes slots. Get real and make your own build choices. 

That's an iffy 1500 range and is laughed at by most bow skills that can travel and act dynamically and again, you shouldn't be getting hit by that. Do people in this form play with no sound and never pan their cameras? 

 

[bq pd.2148]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

But afaic the only outcomes are a stalemate or I die.

the deadeyes i run into rarely play safe enough for this to be true, as playing it safe costs too much time.
since damage was reduced, one is more pressed for time to finish fights before they evolve especially as the SA rework made deadeye better in 1 vs 1 but worse for 1 vs X.

however seeing when the deadeyes overextend might be easier for those of use who have been on the other side of the barrel for some time.

[ArgothCZ.6420]

10 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Just objectively their shots (from stealth) can hit like a truck. That has nothing to do with how skilled people are. But because of the stealth I can't see where they are most of the fight because, well, they're INVISIBLE. And for the few seconds they are visible, well, don't they have range 1500? and with the high mobility they have I can't keep up with them. So really, I may not be as skilled as the other player but it's impossible to do damage to them if it's between invisibility and out of range of my weapons.

DE have burst, not dps. I can output ~20-30k burst to unarmored targets (much less against cele or high toughness targets...or someone with high enough skill to use dodge), but I burn through all my CDs and resources (mark+initiative+dodge/elite to do a judgement from stealth, but only when I hit with two skills to build up Malice). Then there are a few seconds when all I can do 1-1-1 for 2-4k dps (under 1k dps to high toughness) or use some of the movement utility to run.
I don't have perma stealth (like some DDs), but I also have ~15k HP, because I need full Marauder for this kind of damage (and to not die when anything just looks at me). Anyone jumps at me with a similar burst (like willbender, soulbeast, harbinger,... even rifle berserker was able to one-shot me) and I'm downed immediately.

10 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

The mobility isn't all that comparatively at this point or for the rate of fire in WvW. That mobility also takes slots. Get real and make your own build choices. 

Mobility takes most of the slots. Most of my utility is mobility, combined with stun breaks and condi cleanse. Damage for DE is often just from rifle skills. Utility and elite are to just survive.

10 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

That's an iffy 1500 range and is laughed at by most bow skills that can travel and act dynamically and again, you shouldn't be getting hit by that. Do people in this form play with no sound and never pan their cameras? 

1500 range is when DE is kneeling, which needs to be activated, has a short cast time and costs initiative. While kneeling, DE has 1/4 movement speed, unless getting superspeed buff (which is often from stealth). When not kneeling, DE has 1200 range like dragonhunter, warrior, mesmer,...

Who else has 1500 range? Any longbow ranger or engineer with a mortar kit. The mortar kit has an even higher range due to aoe damage and is capable of some trick shots to hit in unexpected places due to projectile arc.

 

So? Delete stealth? Sure, but the thief as a whole class would need to get HP and damage in return to remain somewhat relevant and it would drive people crazy in the same way...and it would make them into "the dodgy warrior" class.

Also people forget the stealth is not invincibility. The thief is still there somewhere and with enough experience, you can still hit them...and it will hurt them a lot.

[Dawdler.8521]

11 minutes ago, ArgothCZ.6420 said:

.So? Delete stealth? Sure

 

Much shorter and all that was needed.

[CafPow.1542]

1 hour ago, ArgothCZ.6420 said:

Sure, but the thief as a whole class would need to get HP and damage in return to remain somewhat relevant

But what if we don’t want it to be relevant.

killing a thief a day should be daily mission. It’s your average „boy scout quest“ of the day like helping a granny cross the street.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

See, this amount of negativity is why I find it funny to play deadeye as a healer/support build. Even when I do none of the things that people complain about, I still get complained about. 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

On 2/4/2024 at 6:23 PM, Burnfall.9573 said:

How long will WvW Community accept Reality that, until Thief Profession and Stealth Mechanic are not deleted, Guild Wars 2  competitive scenary will never exist?

Will another 12 more years be enough evidence needed to accept the Truth??

Get gud, learn the thief weaknesses and ur golden. Remain in the dark, learn nothing, qq on forums of which u know nothing about and u will end up quitting the game just because someone else bested u because THEY took time to do that which u were repugnant to.

Edited February 10 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230