"No downstate" better not become a permanent feature...

[Brother.1504]

No down state is going to be fun. All the super glassy professions with op down state skills can have fun running back from spawn. ?

[Exalted Quality.8534]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Exalted Quality.8534 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@coro.3176 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:What we learned since the announcements: Engi players are the most likely to complain about such a little thing. You're not alienated in the slightest. What about all the other stomp mechanics people can pull off? Are those alienated as well?

Those other mechanics aren't the

class mechanic

for the elite spec. You know how Druid has Celestial Avatar and Spellbreaker has Full Counter, and Reaper has Reaper Shroud, Daredevil has a 3rd dodge, etc etc.

Yeah, Scrapper has Function Gyro. That's not just a "little thing". That's it's main mechanic. People forget that because it's so useless most of the time.

Function Gyro is a mechanic of scrapper, sure. But its main mechanic? Something with the functionality to be compared to Celestial Avatar, Full Counter, or Reaper Shroud? With zero major traits in the Scrapper line to enhance Function Gyro, I'd have to say no.

@Shadowcat.2680 This was taken straight from the GW2 Wiki Page...

"Scrapper's mechanic is the Function Gyro that grants the ability to use the function key (default F) to revive allies or finish foes from a distance."

That's about as cut and dry as it gets. You probably haven't played scrapper to trivialize the importance of function gyro...

Function Gyro is not trivial when it comes to downstate gameplay. Not at all. But all such gameplay will be removed with this event.

As far as gameplay for this event goes, Scrapper will suffer only in that Decisive Renown will become useless. The same could be said of any trait related to downstate. There's a few across various professions that will all be meaningless for this event.

I don't like this event. I don't like Anet's decisions with engineer overall. But calling this event debilitating for scrapper because of the loss of Function Gyro when no professions will have their downstate gameplay/traits is calling a drizzle a blizzard.

Bruh you’re missing the point again...THERE’S NO OTHER SPEC WHOSE UNIQUE MECHANIC IS SOLELY BASED ON STOMPING OR REZZING...

Functionally, this affects scrappers more than any spec, period. Sure, other classes have downstate traits but none like scrapper.

A better approach wouldve been trying a weekend where the temporary invulnerability on down is removedand/or removing the rally mechanicand/or speeding up stomps by like 25%.

[Lahmia.2193]

So my "no elite specs" weekend idea is seen as exclusionary but this isn't?

@Exalted Quality.8534 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Exalted Quality.8534 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@coro.3176 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:What we learned since the announcements: Engi players are the most likely to complain about such a little thing. You're not alienated in the slightest. What about all the other stomp mechanics people can pull off? Are those alienated as well?

Those other mechanics aren't the

class mechanic

for the elite spec. You know how Druid has Celestial Avatar and Spellbreaker has Full Counter, and Reaper has Reaper Shroud, Daredevil has a 3rd dodge, etc etc.

Yeah, Scrapper has Function Gyro. That's not just a "little thing". That's it's main mechanic. People forget that because it's so useless most of the time.

Function Gyro is a mechanic of scrapper, sure. But its main mechanic? Something with the functionality to be compared to Celestial Avatar, Full Counter, or Reaper Shroud? With zero major traits in the Scrapper line to enhance Function Gyro, I'd have to say no.

@Shadowcat.2680 This was taken straight from the GW2 Wiki Page...

"Scrapper's mechanic is the Function Gyro that grants the ability to use the function key (default F) to revive allies or finish foes from a distance."

That's about as cut and dry as it gets. You probably haven't played scrapper to trivialize the importance of function gyro...

Function Gyro is not trivial when it comes to downstate gameplay. Not at all. But all such gameplay will be removed with this event.

As far as gameplay for this event goes, Scrapper will suffer only in that Decisive Renown will become useless. The same could be said of any trait related to downstate. There's a few across various professions that will all be meaningless for this event.

I don't like this event. I don't like Anet's decisions with engineer overall. But calling this event debilitating for scrapper because of the loss of Function Gyro when no professions will have their downstate gameplay/traits is calling a drizzle a blizzard.

Bruh you’re missing the point again...THERE’S NO OTHER SPEC WHOSE UNIQUE MECHANIC IS SOLELY BASED ON STOMPING OR REZZING...

Functionally, this affects scrappers more than any spec, period. Sure, other classes have downstate traits but none like scrapper.

A better approach wouldve been trying a weekend where the temporary invulnerability on down is removed and/or and/or removing the rally mechanic and/or speeding up stomps by like 25%.

I'd love if the temp invuln on down and up was removed permanently.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@"Exalted Quality.8534" said:Functionally, this affects scrappers more than any spec, period. Sure, other classes have downstate traits but none like scrapper.

I disagree with this line. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Courageous_Return is the revive trait that I'd consider to be the biggest game changer for the user out of all the traits affected by reviving.

[Aeolus.3615]

Time to reduce https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_Standard to 60 - 90 sec :)

[Chaba.5410]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@"Exalted Quality.8534" said:Functionally, this affects scrappers more than any spec, period. Sure, other classes have downstate traits but none like scrapper.

I disagree with this line.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Courageous_Return

is the revive trait that I'd consider to be the biggest game changer for the user out of all the traits affected by reviving.

You keep dodging the point about Function Gyro being the elite spec mechanic. Not sure why.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@"Exalted Quality.8534" said:Functionally, this affects scrappers more than any spec, period. Sure, other classes have downstate traits but none like scrapper.

I disagree with this line.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Courageous_Return

is the revive trait that I'd consider to be the biggest game changer for the user out of all the traits affected by reviving.

You keep dodging the point about Function Gyro being the elite spec mechanic. Not sure why.

It's more that as a profession's unique mechanic, Function Gyro is not as well integrated into the elite spec as any other elite's unique profession mechanic in the game. Scrapper not having it for this week in a match where downstate doesn't exist won't make scrapper any worse off than it already is. Nor does the event exclude scrapper. It'll be just as playable in the event match as it is in any other match.

That their event excludes a profession mechanic without killing the playability of that profession should tell Anet something about their design of scrapper's "identity."

[Chaba.5410]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@"Exalted Quality.8534" said:Functionally, this affects scrappers more than any spec, period. Sure, other classes have downstate traits but none like scrapper.

I disagree with this line.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Courageous_Return

is the revive trait that I'd consider to be the biggest game changer for the user out of all the traits affected by reviving.

You keep dodging the point about Function Gyro being the elite spec mechanic. Not sure why.

It's more that as a profession's unique mechanic, Function Gyro is not as well integrated into the elite spec as any other elite's unique profession mechanic in the game. Scrapper not having it for this week in a match where downstate doesn't exist won't make scrapper any worse off than it already is. Nor does the event exclude scrapper. It'll be just as playable in the event match as it is in any other match.

That their event excludes a profession mechanic without killing the playability of that profession should tell Anet something about their design of scrapper's "identity."

Right, as I wrote above, the issue is the class design, not engi players. This event simply highlights that poor design. Downstate traits of other professions don't matter in that light.

When Scrapper was first teased, there was talk about gyros having "fuel" and I had the assumption that the class mechanic was going to be something related to managing gyro fuel, almost like revenant energy. Oh well.

[RedShark.9548]

am i the only one who played scrapper for the hammer and gyros like stealth n stuff? the stomp and rezz just felt like a funny little gimmick but in no way the main thing of scrapperholo just feels like the better scrapper version tbh, with the whole melee theme

[Jwake.7013]

why not just appreciate a promotional week for what it is and not pick it apart like some evil thing? maybe that's asking too much, idk. I'll enjoy it, guess that's all anyone can do. if your not going maybe just take a couple days off? am sorry to hear some people not enjoying this but I only see things like this as a good change of pace and a nice promo for the game type.

[Riba.3271]

One week is okay. It will also test what the changes will do to WvW. Hopefully we get some more interesting events like permanent superspeed etc. But this one is good to start on.

[Nimon.7840]

I wanna add something: a whole bunch of traits gets useless if there is no downstate in wvw anymore.

Like all rezz-traits get useless.And I bet there are more.

I'm necro main so I take it as example:

Blood magic traitline is already not very good in wvw. But what it does is fast rezzes.Traited lesser well of blood gets uselessLife from death revive part - uselessLast rites useless downstate partRevive and pull from transfusion: useless.

I bet there are other classes as well that have traits getting very bad.

So do we get compensation?

[Israel.7056]

But let's say hypothetically that no downstate week is really popular should it then matter if the gyros are kind of irrelevant?

[Justine.6351]

I'm not entirely sure where people are getting this doom and gloom "permanent feature" idea from a week long event.

[Lahmia.2193]

@"Justine.6351" said:I'm not entirely sure where people are getting this doom and gloom "permanent feature" idea from a week long event.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We certainly welcome any ideas for future WvW events!

Here are some guidelines we've been using in our brainstorming.

Change the way WvW is played in some way. Doesn't have to be a big change, but should be a change.

Using events as test beds for permanent changes can be nice, but isn't necessary. There are many things we probably would be willing to do for the length of a matchup, but wouldn't want it to be forever.

Events shouldn't require large art changes. We want to be able to implement these events quickly and not rely on getting a lot of art that may never be used again.

Events shouldn't exclude large sections of the player base. No restricting events to specific classes, expansions, etc.

Looking forward to hearing more ideas!

Probably people seeing the bit about it possibly being a perma change but not necessarily.

[BlueMelody.6398]

@Jwake.7013 said:why not just appreciate a promotional week for what it is and not pick it apart like some evil thing? maybe that's asking too much, idk. I'll enjoy it, guess that's all anyone can do. if your not going maybe just take a couple days off? am sorry to hear some people not enjoying this but I only see things like this as a good change of pace and a nice promo for the game type.

I'd actually be far more ok with this if they didn't pair it with the XPx2 etc. They should be separate so that people who find they don't like being constantly targeted and insta-ganked by cheesy thief/mesmer stealth groups over and over for an hour can go do something else without sacrificing the XP2 stuff.

[Jwake.7013]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:I'd actually be far more ok with this if they didn't pair it with the XPx2 etc. They should be separate so that people who find they don't like being constantly targeted and insta-ganked by cheesy thief/mesmer stealth groups over and over for an hour can go do something else without sacrificing the XP2 stuff.

That's fair. It is for sure something to think about for the future if they only do the bounces during these event weeks that's not really promoting 'true' WvW. However it is a nice extra incentive to hop in and try out the different events, especially the first one. I personally don't think they should be exclusively tied together but don't mind them overlapping on occasion. Will be something to keep an eye on how they proceed with them if these events continue forward.

[Kolache.3964]

My Fire Salsa! Noooooooooo!

[Kaiser.9873]

Shouldn't have wasted ANY man-hours on this gimmicky "event", and instead put it all into getting the alliances ready.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@"Kaiser.9873" said:Shouldn't have wasted ANY man-hours on this gimmicky "event", and instead put it all into getting the alliances ready.

YAY GIMMICKY EVENT

Guess not everyone appreciates any attempt (despite how big or small) they do to shake up WvW.

[Kassablanca.5821]

most of us love this change I am sure they will replace ur useless skill with another one later

[Malediktus.9250]

This no downstate week is horrible.+100% WXP and +50% magic find as a bonus is also useless if I get -75% loot in total because you can no longer tag downed people so DPS classes get all the loot lol

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

@Malediktus.9250 said:This no downstate week is horrible.

You can stop at that. The pirate ships are out and barely touch each other.

I'll avoid turning this into a matchup thread, but I watched #### push (who usually do pretty well) into ### and they melted to the bombs at their feet. Never made it to the back line and rally up those leading the charge. Of course, they didn't do that again and sat in their own band new pirate ship.

[perilisk.1874]

@"Shadowcat.2680" said:"No Downstate" won't ever be permanent. Not so long as there are Gem Store exclusive finishers.

Not to give them ideas, but technically they could just make the finisher trigger whenever you kill a player, or some percentage of the time, or something. Really, they could make it trigger when you kill a vet or elite in PvE, and probably make even more money.

[XenesisII.1540]

Yup more than usual pirate shipping in out there and so is the the auto immune builds, but hey it's what anet has been promoting for 3 years so shrug.Should have been a weekend thing.