playing revenant is borderline exploiting

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Rev is anything but op. Sure they hit hard, but it comes at a cost.

Besides, ever heard of rock paper scissors? I don't believe any rev build is a hard counter (or even a counter to any type of mesmer build), BUT, is a condition mirage not allowed to have a counter? Like seriously here... Is the sky really falling because some sort of build emerged from the works that counters a condition mirage?

[Jeknar.6184]

@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:Rev is anything but op. Sure they hit hard, but it comes at a cost.

Besides, ever heard of rock paper scissors? I don't believe any rev build is a hard counter (or even a counter to any type of mesmer build), BUT, is a condition mirage not allowed to have a counter? Like seriously here... Is the sky really falling because some sort of build emerged from the works that counters a condition mirage?

How is he going to be "The only condi mirage in the top 20" with evil revenants killing him? Better ask for a nerf.

[Ovark.2514]

Rev has to sacrifice almost nothing to get all the tricks other classes dream of having. Sure they can't remove conditions well (meta build that is), but they have so many evades and blocks that it's a moot point since evades, blocks, and stunbreaks are worth far more than condi removal since they can be used against ANY build.

[kin korn karn.9023]

So much talk about Mirage in a post about Rev. Mirage is overrated anyway. It's a pretty decent, versatile spec, but it's outclassed by other professions in every role. I doubt anyone serious would even play it anymore if not for Portal.

As for Rev, I wouldn't necessarily say it's OP, but it's pretty damn close. The mobilty, engage/disengage, damage are ridiculous. And a player skilled with Rev will sustain for ages. Rev is basically the reason that traditional thief is now irrelevant. Ppl here talking about Metabattle rankings like that defines the meta, but Rev has been dominating in ATs for quite some time with no regard for what players and websites consider "meta."

Again, not saying Rev is OP, but you guys acting like Rev needs to get buffed need to stop trolling.

[Jeknar.6184]

@Ovark.2514 said:Rev has to sacrifice almost nothing to get all the tricks other classes dream of having. Sure they can't remove conditions well (meta build that is), but they have so many evades and blocks that it's a moot point since evades, blocks, and stunbreaks are worth far more than condi removal since they can be used against ANY build.

Are you sure you're not talking about mesmer?

[ArthurDent.9538]

Wait when did rev disengage start getting considered good? You generally get 1 riposting shadows and a surge of the mists for disengage which gives you 1200 distance over 1.75 seconds of cast time after that all you have is swiftness, even necro can catch up to that with either fleshwurm or 2 deaths charges for reaper or sandswell for scourge. If we are extremely generous and say you camped shiro waiting for max energy so you can do 3 riposting shadows in a row that is still only 2400 range over 3.25 seconds which once more even necro can catch up to they just need to use fleshwurm and their espec movement skill. Then there is how woefully inefficient both rev heals are when attempting to disengage, so if they try to survive by doing jumping puzzles they can't even heal through stuff like thief shortbow pew pew unlike say holo or spellbreaker which can easily heal to full while kiting. Rev chasing is the classes only major strength, but its disengage is wholly mediocre.

[Obtena.7952]

"Playing Revenant is Borderline Exploiting" and "Mesmers most broken class in game" are literally neck and neck in the PVP forum right now ... COINCIDENCE or CONSPIRACY?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

having skill is unfair

[Alatar.7364]

rev is a hard counter to mirage in team fights cause mirage can't get away when getting ambushed by a rev while fighting someone else and having cooldowns and not being full hp.

It is OP/Hard counter, because it can 2v1 (generally +1) a Profession with no HP left and CDs running.....................Had some remark in store but this left me so speechless that I am gonna nope out of this thread instead.

[kin korn karn.9023]

@ArthurDent.9538 said:Wait when did rev disengage start getting considered good?...Not godtier disengage like a couple other builds. It's conditional cos it requires a target in a suitable place, but their shadowsteps are fantastic for disengage in the right circumstances.

[Jeknar.6184]

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:Wait when did rev disengage start getting considered good?...Not godtier disengage like a couple other builds. It's conditional cos it requires a target in a suitable place, but their shadowsteps are fantastic for disengage in the right circumstances.

So it's the same as a Meditation guardian then? Not exactly godtier if you need perfect conditions to pull it off... Shadowstep followed by Infiltrator Arrow is much more god'ish than that.

[ParanoidKami.2867]

Rev has bad sustain and its disengage is worse than Thief. If you're worried about damage just put protection on yourself and weakness on him. Or boon strip his might.

[kin korn karn.9023]

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@"ArthurDent.9538" said:Wait when did rev disengage start getting considered good?...Not godtier disengage like a couple other builds. It's conditional cos it requires a target in a suitable place, but their shadowsteps are fantastic for disengage in the right circumstances.

So it's the same as a Meditation guardian then? Not exactly godtier if you need perfect conditions to pull it off... Shadowstep followed by Infiltrator Arrow is much more god'ish than that.I already said it's not godtier, so we agree on that. Med guard's 1200 range port is on high CD, so less useful for disengage, and sword 2's range doesn't get you very far. But yeah, that's basically the idea, Rev just has better access to long-range teleports.

Traditional Thief is basically irrelevant in this meta, as it's been overshadowed by superior roaming damage dealers (primarily Rev). Rev is essentially Thief on steroids, it just doesn't backcap as well.

Anyway, this "disengage" nitpicking is not really the OP's point, I don't think. His complaint is that the high mobility paired with high damage and relatively high sustain (at least in short bursts) is pretty insane, and nobody can reasonably claim otherwise.

[BlackBeard.2873]

I disagree, revenant doesn't have enough evades that it can chain together, and it definitely doesn't have high enough burst on a rediculously short CD with almost no tell! They should decrease of the energy of riposting shadows to like 5 energy, and double the damage on off-hand sword skills. Also, I think phase traversal should have its energy reduced to 10, and be usable as a ground-target when someone isn't targeted to help with mobility between points. No matter what they do, they shouldn't give just a little bit of condi cleanse, and defnitely shouldn't nerf the damage in conjunction with doing that - that would be terrible game design.

Remember, it doesn't matter if an enemy is frustrated by your skills, as long as you feel strong using them that is all that matters.

[whoknocks.4935]

And thinking how rev was completely garbage together with elementalist in the pvp scenario, and now call it out as broken xD People is never happy.

I must admit that revenant lost his high skill floor needed to play the class, sword off hand is thr easiest thing to use on the class and now you can have good results with it even if you are an average player, but I think it's far from being broken.

Other things like fb/scourge duo are in meta since 1 year(maybe more?) and they are the most abused unfun to play against composition, problems must be looked somewhere else, and I am not a rev main.

[tinyreborn.1938]

@Jeknar.6184 said:

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@ArthurDent.9538 said:Wait when did rev disengage start getting considered good?...Not godtier disengage like a couple other builds. It's conditional cos it requires a target in a suitable place, but their shadowsteps are fantastic for disengage in the right circumstances.

So it's the same as a Meditation guardian then? Not exactly godtier if you need perfect conditions to pull it off... Shadowstep followed by Infiltrator Arrow is much more god'ish than that.PT need energy ,dont have ~35s cd . Sword offhand instant teleport also. I think when you cover instant 2000~ range thats really good and can clap any mesmer/thief running away from a great distance too ;)@ventusthunder.5067I suppose that's the reason why there's very few threads complaining about it while the feedback thread on condi mirage has over 500 posts.People never stopped to complaint about memser even when it was bad . I dont see anything unusual there.But you are right there. He behave in a way he is best mesmer in game left that only being able to play it to ~top20 while playing some cheese incarnation of something isnt allowed to mention... Last season was a huge lie from anet that no one get titles so people didnt play it even . Not like it matters anyway

[The Ace.9105]

@incisorr.9502 said:

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:If you're dying consistently to a rev as a condi mirage to the point that you need to rage multiple times about how weak condi is and how completely op power is, you should probably reconsider why you're such a high elo mlg gw2 player anyway. If all your peers at the top of the ladder agree with you, why bother bringing your opinion down to the plebians?

whos talking about 1v1 ? Implying anyone sane picks rev to play for 1v1 dueling against mirage. Get real

rev is a hard counter to mirage in team fights cause mirage can't get away when getting ambushed by a rev while fighting someone else and having cooldowns and not being full hp.

people that think 1v1 balance matters (where you can cheese to infinity) in a game with only official mode being 5v5 and then take a class that has insane mobility and ganking potential and say that this class "loses 1v1 to mirage " have some severe issues

i bring this "opinion " down to the forum because its the only place that we can give feedback on that can make some difference

and there's nothing about opinion when i say there are more revenants in top 30 than there are mesmers, it's a fact that can be looked at. Also lol at bringing my class in every single thread when that's not even the topic here. The topic is revenant, i can play anything else and it'll still be revenant that does the same stuff

hard facts -more revs in top 30-50 than mesmersa single mesmer out of TWENTY PEOPLE in top 20 for the last season (wow so op)

So basically nerf skill and more cheese, right? Playing herald actually somewhat has still that old vanilla feeling. It's not cheese like mesmer that has the same animation on everything and you'll never know if it's invulnerability or not and it doesn't spam endless amount of clones/phantasms and afk while the clones/phantasms do insane damage and the mesmer can just kite around nor break the target on every ability. Rev dies pretty easily if you know how to play against it and it basically has no heal skill if you stop attacking it when glint heal is up.

It's also not op like holo that can use the elixir s and one shot the rev with stuncombo or a spellbreaker that can do the same.

Can't fight against rev in 1v2!!! You shouldn't be able to. Unfortunately if you do well enough you just port away and when the rev chases you use invulnerability and do condi burst and you'll kill the herald from 100 to 0 in seconds because herald used all of it's energy to chase you and becomes useless. That's how you beat it in 1v2 situation.

During teamfights burst herald after glint heal and it dies pretty easily.

I think you are just too used to cheese stuff and when facing a class that you have to think ahead when fighting against it and bait it's abilities and stuff you just get tilted and it makes you mad and frustrated.

Now if you ask me about herald changes i would agree with more survivability but right now it's pretty much a high risk high reward class that requires some skill to play. Otherwise you are just perma dead everywhere.

[Neil.3825]

OP your problem is with shiro (and maybe sword off hand), not rev. Even glint is here, in the meta build, just to buff more shiro and buy some time when the fight is not at rev's advantage.Nerf shiro and buff all useless legends like jalis, mallyx, ventari and kalla (wow 4/6 legends sucks, great diversity).

[apharma.3741]

@JayAction.9056 said:

@incisorr.9502 said:

@JayAction.9056 said:The reality is the opposite.

Rev is ok. Every POF spec is stronger than REV as a whole except for revs own POF spec.

The multiple nerfs to the POF specs made it so playing Rev is actually double. I wouldn’t call Rev meta. There are 9 classes. There are at least 10 or more specs quite a bit better than Revs best.

Rev damage is “extremely” low as far as power damage goes actually.

Edit: It’s the same build from 2015 and it’s weaker now and the competition is stronger (POF specs). It’s almost 2k19

same buff but with 300 extra buff and 300 extra nerfs on everyone else

rev even made it to the first page of metabattle and that site is outdated and not always realistic, that's how broken it is. I haven't seen a single person at higher elo not acknowledge how ludicrously broken rev is. You can't just barge in here and blurt out some statement like this one with zero credibility or experience or anything

rev is beyond any reason whatsoever

I was just top 10 solo q rev.

Trust me it’s not even middle of the pack if we are comparing it to the best of each class. It’s dead last.

Rev is due for some buffs at this point. You realize it’s the same build from 2015? All the dominant HOT specs were nerfed. Then came POF specs which were even stronger.

Just know if you are losing to rev you are losing to a weak version of a 2015 build nearly 4 years after it saw 50% damage, sustain and mobility nerfs. It’s all personal

See this is how we know not to trust what you say, rev is better than the best ele build! jk :grin:

It's also in no way the same build from 2015, if you think this you're delusional and been ganked by too many mesmers!

For a start viper rev was what was used in the very beginning of bunker chrono days, revs no longer use viper and this is because it's not completely and utterly busted anymore. Remember bunker chrono was unkillable by any other class at the time, even by todays standards and PoF creep it might be unkillable, yet rev was the only thing that could bring it down.

There's also been a few significant changes:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Notorietyhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incensed_Responsehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vicious_Lacerationshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burst_of_Strength

There's also been some switching of traits in devastation giving you a decent choice in adept and master. Herald trait line and skills have been changed a bit too which has added some new utility to it and new option. Don't forget +15% damage after burst of strength!

On the whole the changes let revs get crazy power levels from might stacking and like reapers gaining more power per might stack. Yes some of the damage has been nerfed from when it was all kinds of broken but I really wouldn't say it's the same build as 2015, it may use the same legends, weapons and trait lines but there's been significant changes to them since 2015-2018 beta period.

[Noha.3749]

Revenants are far from OP.They got great engage and some unblockable burst but at a very hefty cost.Once sword 5, Shiro"shadowstep", sword 4 and 2 are used up they are left with very little offensive capabilities, drained of shiro energy so they cant use more utilities or attacks.Switching to herald doesnt do anything good when it comes to mobility, the heal is easily countered/predicted and its THE ONLY HEAL that actually heals for a proper amount with the metabuild shiro/herald.

Revenants burst is great, engage is great. BUT ---- BUUUT their disengage is terrible/VERY costy/situational. Their heal from shiro AND herald is "meh" at best, too easy to play around.

And about the "blinking through terrain" part.. Oh Guardians and thieves can do it, Necros and mesmers can "somewhat" do it, elementalists can somewhat do it.Guess its unfair when revenants can do it too because we cant have more than half the profession able to do it to different extent :astonished:

[rev in love.8439]

@Neil.3825 said:OP your problem is with shiro (and maybe sword off hand), not rev. Even glint is here, in the meta build, just to buff more shiro and buy some time when the fight is not at rev's advantage.Nerf shiro and buff all useless legends like jalis, mallyx, ventari and kalla (wow 4/6 legends sucks, great diversity).

Well, you know how many nerfs did Shiro? Do you know how many nerf did this full class? Every time a balance patch comes up I think ... what will be the next pointless madness that anet will do to my profession, more nerfs, why, some good rev hit an admin in pvp? Really frustrated ...Totally agree that we need more construction diversity.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

I'm seeing that most people having difficulty against a Revenant of similar level of skill aren't really having trouble against them of them Revenant. it's because of things stacking too much.

Too many areas dealing too many stacked effects at the same time. The stacking has gotten so bad that it can be done by a single character, stacking their own skills with each other way too much.Too many to even see them. So when someone notices one of them, they'll think it's the fault of that one, when that one is just the one that's easier to see, and revenant skills are notoriously flashy and easy to see.

This is the kind of issue that is solved with game mechanic rather than profession balance.Like how in fighting games they have 'anti-juggle' mechanics that make you fall off a juggle if someone manages to lock you in one, or how someone being hit repeatedly with many hits gains damage reduction hit after hit to reduce the chances of getting a 1-combo KO without having to break the cool moves and animations.

We still have players that single out enemies to finish them, but nowadays there's too much focus on getting enemies from 100% to 0% in one go. There needs to be more attrition, leaving more of the bursting for finishing enemies rather than engaging them.

It doesn't help that the combat log often falls short and runs out of space to store all the action, and the death breakdown doesn't break down anything, you can't even properly see who dealt which conditions and with which skills.And the health bar doesn't properly indicate 'future' damage. In the heat of battle one may get enough DoT condition stacks to last only 1-2 seconds, but the HP orb won't change its color to indicate this. People should not have to look at tiny numbers on the corner of a tiny effect icon, then mentally calculate how much HP will that be to know they are going down fast. They should see several olive green or purple colored sections in their HP orb, each one indicating the next chuck of damage lost if conditions aren't removed, with enough change in brightness to tell them apart. 1 second, this band goes away, next second, the one under it, and so on. You got 3 bands? You got 3 seconds if you don't remove that burning.

[Buran.3796]

@Neil.3825 said:OP your problem is with shiro (and maybe sword off hand), not rev. Even glint is here, in the meta build, just to buff more shiro and buy some time when the fight is not at rev's advantage.Nerf shiro and buff all useless legends like jalis, mallyx, ventari and kalla (wow 4/6 legends sucks, great diversity).

Shiro was already nerfed several times, and Herald Shiro+Glint is the only decent Revenant build since the arrival of the class 3+ years ago. You're talking about buffing other legends as if the Revenant were one of those classes able to configure and set skills at will, and they aren't. Revenant have trash tier cleansing skills, trash tier access to stability and trash tier healing utilities, so buffing Jalis, Ventari o that garbage can called Renegade won't make the class viable to be a bunker or to play a support role (much less now that Herald lost all the buff capabilities that had, in a game in which runes provides more boon duration than the entire spec).

[incisorr.9502]

the problem with rev is that their ganking is uncounterable and unstoppable

it's basically what mesmer/thief used to do in the past but both mesmer and thief could always fail and could be disengaged from which is simply not the case with rev. On high elo you if you're doing a 1v1 or a 2v2 or a 3v3 or a 1v2 and a revenant comes and ganks you - you CANT get away from him, infinite gap closers that go THROUGH WALLS and give you UNBLOCKABLE ATTACKS paired with unreasonably high damage and with the potential to have any boon (even quickness if they wanted) and reveal makes it literally uncounterable - they aren't as squishy as thief, they do way more dmg, they have more unblockable attacks, more iframes,more stunbreaks, invulnerability (glint's heal is pretty much invulnerability cus they cant be killed for its duration), multiple iframes (staff , sword, shiro) . An unrelenting assault with enhanced daggers alone can do 12k dmg with iframe lmao btw and that's not even a problem cus its slow, what's a problem is a shackling wave with daggers casted from that phase bullshit that makes you unblockable which does 20k dmg

people's joke reasoning like "OMG HOW CAN MESMER LOSE TO REV L())(()()L" is an absolute abomination and a joke and a pretty much proof for anyone that even thinks about writing such a joke statement that he's double digit iq at best, 1) it's not about class but about build and not every mesmer plays the same build, the most popular mesmer build is actually garbage and has been garbage ever since elusive mind got nerfed and it might be the one that counters rev but not every build does. 2) gw2 is not a 1v1 game and revenant is not a 1v1 class ,its a GANKER CLASS. How can you compare ganker's ability to a bunker/duelist's ability in 1v1 and expect to be taken seriously?

rev has a no cd stunbreaker at any point that can be followed up by 20sec+ of iframe /block chaining and some guy says that thief has better disengage with its 50 sec cd shadowstep? lmao btw i'm so done

[Noha.3749]

complainers dont got a clue about how revenants energysystem works and what their limits are.