WvW commanders/guilds kicking non-meta classes.

[coro.3176]

Unrelated, but what is it about people capitalizing "meta" all the time? It's not a proper noun. It's not an initialism. /grammarn@zi

[Rashagar.8349]

@"coro.3176" said:Unrelated, but what is it about people capitalizing "meta" all the time? It's not a proper noun. It's not an initialism. /grammarn@zi

Same way you'd capitalise any other religion =P

[Teratus.2859]

@hobotnicax.7918 said:Positioning is key.

You've no idea how many times I've tried to make that point when people criticize Ranger LB damage lolRanger was my first character in Gw2 and i've been running some form of Archer build since the game launched.Positioning is vital to play an Archer effectively.. and a good Ranger who actively focuses on positioning can do some serious damage... and put down constant ranged pressure from relative safety.. even in the pvp modes.

I can see some valid complaints in this thread.. specially against Rangers who don't know what they are doing and burst down their own squads thanks to reflects (which can happen with any class running ranged weapons) but it's pretty bad to discriminate all players based on their class and nothing else..A few bad experiences with a few Rangers is no excuse to treat all Ranger players like crap.

Fun tip for WvW Archers on positioning.. get above your target.There are so many places in the WvW maps where the Ranger can get ontop of a wall, building, cliff etc and burst down enemies with a LB.You don't even need to worry about killing your own team via reflect as anything reflected will come back at you and nobody else.Using the terrain to your advantage is a big part of playing any Ranged based build.

[coro.3176]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@hobotnicax.7918 said:Positioning is key.

You've no idea how many times I've tried to make that point when people criticize Ranger LB damage lolRanger was my first character in Gw2 and i've been running some form of Archer build since the game launched.Positioning is vital to play an Archer effectively.. and a good Ranger who actively focuses on positioning can do some serious damage... and put down constant ranged pressure from relative safety.. even in the pvp modes.

I can see some valid complaints in this thread.. specially against Rangers who don't know what they are doing and burst down their own squads thanks to reflects (which can happen with any class running ranged weapons) but it's pretty bad to discriminate all players based on their class and nothing else..A few bad experiences with a few Rangers is no excuse to treat all Ranger players like kitten.

It doesn't matter how good your positioning is if the enemy squad has permanent rotating bubbles. You're just never going to hit them (outside of a brief window of unblockable).

You can have good positioning on Revenant or Ele too and deal tons of damage that the enemy can't reflect or bubble.

Projectiles are just in a bad spot for WvW combat.

[Teratus.2859]

@coro.3176 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@hobotnicax.7918 said:Positioning is key.

You've no idea how many times I've tried to make that point when people criticize Ranger LB damage lolRanger was my first character in Gw2 and i've been running some form of Archer build since the game launched.Positioning is vital to play an Archer effectively.. and a good Ranger who actively focuses on positioning can do some serious damage... and put down constant ranged pressure from relative safety.. even in the pvp modes.

I can see some valid complaints in this thread.. specially against Rangers who don't know what they are doing and burst down their own squads thanks to reflects (which can happen with any class running ranged weapons) but it's pretty bad to discriminate all players based on their class and nothing else..A few bad experiences with a few Rangers is no excuse to treat all Ranger players like kitten.

It doesn't matter how good your positioning is if the enemy squad has permanent rotating bubbles. You're just never going to hit them (outside of a brief window of unblockable).

Oh sure.. although personally i've rarely had to deal with that since it requires a certain kind of organization that most squads don't have when i'm typically playing.But in terms of fairness I harbor no ill will against blobs that are equipped and prepared to deal with my playstyle.Simply comes down to them being better and their victory is well earned.

Projectiles are just in a bad spot for WvW combat.

Yeah they are a bit, and that does diminish ranged builds quite a bit in some situations.You can get around it in some ways though.. as I said, get above the enemy blob and pick people off behind the bubbles/walls.A zerg clustering in a bubble is going to be bombarded with AoE so there will be those that back out to heal or avoid it.. easy pickings then for a Ranger with the high ground.You could also run Signet of the Hunt which makes your attacks unblocable for 6 seconds which will make those arrows ignore reflect entirely and hit those hiding in the bubbles.Likewise if both squads are using reflect bubbles Ranger arrows will bounce off the enemy reflect.. hit the ally squad reflect and bounce back at their original target ignoring the original reflect so it's very possible for a Squad with Rangers to avoid friendly fire by rotating their own reflects as well.

I prefer the high ground option myself for most situations though.. It's easy to do and I enjoy position playing anyway, using the terrain to my advantage is part of the reason I like Ranger so much, Plus It makes me responsible for my own choice of playstyle without being a burden on any squads or groups.

Ranger could definitely benefit from more access to unblockable though.. with Signet of the Hunt and Unstoppable Union.. they've got at most 10 seconds of unblockable.The 6 seconds from Signet is good but that 40 second CD is painful for prolonged encounters against bubble rotation.

[coro.3176]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@coro.3176 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@hobotnicax.7918 said:Positioning is key.

You've no idea how many times I've tried to make that point when people criticize Ranger LB damage lolRanger was my first character in Gw2 and i've been running some form of Archer build since the game launched.Positioning is vital to play an Archer effectively.. and a good Ranger who actively focuses on positioning can do some serious damage... and put down constant ranged pressure from relative safety.. even in the pvp modes.

I can see some valid complaints in this thread.. specially against Rangers who don't know what they are doing and burst down their own squads thanks to reflects (which can happen with any class running ranged weapons) but it's pretty bad to discriminate all players based on their class and nothing else..A few bad experiences with a few Rangers is no excuse to treat all Ranger players like kitten.

It doesn't matter how good your positioning is if the enemy squad has permanent rotating bubbles. You're just never going to hit them (outside of a brief window of unblockable).

Oh sure.. although personally i've rarely had to deal with that since it requires a certain kind of organization that most squads don't have when i'm typically playing.But in terms of fairness I harbor no ill will against blobs that are equipped and prepared to deal with my playstyle.Simply comes down to them being better and their victory is well earned.

Projectiles are just in a bad spot for WvW combat.

Yeah they are a bit, and that does diminish ranged builds quite a bit in some situations.You can get around it in some ways though.. as I said, get above the enemy blob and pick people off behind the bubbles/walls.A zerg clustering in a bubble is going to be bombarded with AoE so there will be those that back out to heal or avoid it.. easy pickings then for a Ranger with the high ground.You could also run Signet of the Hunt which makes your attacks unblocable for 6 seconds which will make those arrows ignore reflect entirely and hit those hiding in the bubbles.Likewise if both squads are using reflect bubbles Ranger arrows will bounce off the enemy reflect.. hit the ally squad reflect and bounce back at their original target ignoring the original reflect so it's very possible for a Squad with Rangers to avoid friendly fire by rotating their own reflects as well.

I prefer the high ground option myself for most situations though.. It's easy to do and I enjoy position playing anyway, using the terrain to my advantage is part of the reason I like Ranger so much, Plus It makes me responsible for my own choice of playstyle without being a burden on any squads or groups.

Ranger could definitely benefit from more access to unblockable though.. with Signet of the Hunt and Unstoppable Union.. they've got at most 10 seconds of unblockable.The 6 seconds from Signet is good but that 40 second CD is painful for prolonged encounters against bubble rotation.

mmm. I don't like unblockable as a solution to this problem. You run into situations where opposing classes that rely on block as their defense have no real options when facing unblockable. If a warrior puts up their shield for a channeled block, they should expect that to work - especially when facing a class that can put out ~50k damage in the span of 2 seconds from 1800+ range. If an ele uses Magnetic Aura in response to some incoming projectiles, they should expect that to work.

No, I think the real problem with WvW and projectiles relates to the 5 target rule that affects everything else in the game:

• support skills like auras affect max 5 allied targets
• offensive skills including aoes hit max 5 enemy targets
• cleaving and piercing damage hit max 5 enemy targets

... but a single reflect bubble or walls protects an entire blob of up to 60 people for its duration. You can protect 60+ people from ALL projectiles forever (assuming they stay close) with just 4-5 firebrands (or scrappers).

That's a fundamental asymmetry that really hurts projectiles and until something happens there, non-projectile ranged dps will always be better in a large fight.

I don't think that's going to be fixed unless you either make unblockable attacks much more common (effectively making block useless and evade/invuln king, I don't like this option) or by getting rid of the offending bubble skills. I think you'd have much healthier zerg fights without anti-projectile bubbles. Walls like Druid's or Guardian's are good because you can adjust your attack angle to shoot around them, but the bubbles need to go in order for Ranger to have a spot in squads.

[Baldrick.8967]

I main ranger (SB). It's really not that hard to get into squads most of the time - but if the commander starts putting you in a ranger/thief group just leave and follow, as you're better off not being in that group, especially as the other rangers probably aren't running a heal/remove condi merged pet and stances for sharing, but some totally selfish zerk build.

Then be useful to the comm. Call out attacks, spot enemy movement, flip camps if the comm is moving from one tower to the next without taking camps, build siege in the right spots, snipe the right targets and don't spam your skills into reflects.

[scerevisiae.1972]

don't listen to people who say rangers are bad at zerging, they are the kind of players who don't really understand the game and just get run over by better groups (and then complain about how unfair it is).

Frontline stanceshare soulbeast with axe/axe + greatsword is great at zerging. I have hours of footage where I routinely out-damage guild scourges/revs in tweaked meta builds. I have 1-2 hit so many people for 10-17K with axe #3 i don't even bother to record it anymore. The build i use: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAR3XnE8CNsgN8C2CCs8il9AbpJEASAPxhjQFIf9+evvlIRvA-jVCBQBaUZWe0NoQ1fAwDBINKBLy+DB4IAwgLAgXUaEA4A48zz8mHc+5nf+5nXzP/8zP/8zP/8zLFQELjA-w (enable beastmode)

Stanceshare SB brings:

• the best group stab in game, because it provides full soft CC immunity (dolyak stance)
• some of the best group condi clear in game (bear stance)
• multiple pulls, immobilises and leaps
• group stunbreak (protect me)
• unique dmg buff that increases scourge dmg by ~16% (stance elite)
• the highest scaling AOE dmg skill in game, axe #5

so yeah, ignore the naysayers, they are clueless.

[Mokk.2397]

Good commanders can utilize all classes .Poor commanders use simpleton meta builds .

[Trajan.4953]

First rule of WVW, never listen to Rangers. They are like roamers on these forums they post and continue to cry and complain to try and validate what they do and how they do it. They are useless and should be treated as such, learn a meta class and play it

[Eudaimonia.8695]

Play what you want. You're spending your money and time here. Just don't expect a squad spot. That is all.

Group up with other hipster builds around you or just run with the tag but don't rallybot because THEN you're really useless.

Alternatively, make a squad of your own. We can always use more commanders in EU.

[Teratus.2859]

@coro.3176 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@coro.3176 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@hobotnicax.7918 said:Positioning is key.

You've no idea how many times I've tried to make that point when people criticize Ranger LB damage lolRanger was my first character in Gw2 and i've been running some form of Archer build since the game launched.Positioning is vital to play an Archer effectively.. and a good Ranger who actively focuses on positioning can do some serious damage... and put down constant ranged pressure from relative safety.. even in the pvp modes.

I can see some valid complaints in this thread.. specially against Rangers who don't know what they are doing and burst down their own squads thanks to reflects (which can happen with any class running ranged weapons) but it's pretty bad to discriminate all players based on their class and nothing else..A few bad experiences with a few Rangers is no excuse to treat all Ranger players like kitten.

It doesn't matter how good your positioning is if the enemy squad has permanent rotating bubbles. You're just never going to hit them (outside of a brief window of unblockable).

Oh sure.. although personally i've rarely had to deal with that since it requires a certain kind of organization that most squads don't have when i'm typically playing.But in terms of fairness I harbor no ill will against blobs that are equipped and prepared to deal with my playstyle.Simply comes down to them being better and their victory is well earned.

Projectiles are just in a bad spot for WvW combat.

Yeah they are a bit, and that does diminish ranged builds quite a bit in some situations.You can get around it in some ways though.. as I said, get above the enemy blob and pick people off behind the bubbles/walls.A zerg clustering in a bubble is going to be bombarded with AoE so there will be those that back out to heal or avoid it.. easy pickings then for a Ranger with the high ground.You could also run Signet of the Hunt which makes your attacks unblocable for 6 seconds which will make those arrows ignore reflect entirely and hit those hiding in the bubbles.Likewise if both squads are using reflect bubbles Ranger arrows will bounce off the enemy reflect.. hit the ally squad reflect and bounce back at their original target ignoring the original reflect so it's very possible for a Squad with Rangers to avoid friendly fire by rotating their own reflects as well.

I prefer the high ground option myself for most situations though.. It's easy to do and I enjoy position playing anyway, using the terrain to my advantage is part of the reason I like Ranger so much, Plus It makes me responsible for my own choice of playstyle without being a burden on any squads or groups.

Ranger could definitely benefit from more access to unblockable though.. with Signet of the Hunt and Unstoppable Union.. they've got at most 10 seconds of unblockable.The 6 seconds from Signet is good but that 40 second CD is painful for prolonged encounters against bubble rotation.

mmm. I don't like unblockable as a solution to this problem. You run into situations where opposing classes that rely on block as their defense have no real options when facing unblockable. If a warrior puts up their shield for a channeled block, they should expect that to

work

- especially when facing a class that can put out ~50k damage in the span of 2 seconds from 1800+ range. If an ele uses Magnetic Aura in response to some incoming projectiles, they should expect that to work.

No, I think the real problem with WvW and projectiles relates to the 5 target rule that affects everything else in the game:

• support skills like auras affect max 5 allied targets
• offensive skills including aoes hit max 5 enemy targets
• cleaving and piercing damage hit max 5 enemy targets

... but a single reflect bubble or walls protects an entire blob of up to 60 people for its duration. You can protect 60+ people from

ALL

projectiles forever (assuming they stay close) with just 4-5 firebrands (or scrappers).

That's a fundamental asymmetry that really hurts projectiles and until something happens there, non-projectile ranged dps will always be better in a large fight.

I don't think that's going to be fixed unless you either make unblockable attacks much more common (effectively making block useless and evade/invuln king, I don't like this option) or by getting rid of the offending bubble skills. I think you'd have much healthier zerg fights without anti-projectile bubbles. Walls like Druid's or Guardian's are good because you can adjust your attack angle to shoot around them, but the bubbles need to go in order for Ranger to have a spot in squads.

Perhaps the better solution would be to add a stacking mechanic to reflect bubbles.. much like stability and limit the number of projectiles they can block over an entire blob of players.Multiple players put down overlapping reflect fields and the stacks/duration increase instead.. while incoming projectiles contine to wittle them down or something.

[shiri.4257]

@Mokk.2397 said:Good commanders can utilize all classes .Poor commanders use simpleton meta builds .

wrong, good commanders bring discipline and understand what kind of assets are required to achieve the objective. poor commanders, let the undisciplined fester until defeat is imminent.

[Dawdler.8521]

@shiri.4257 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:Good commanders can utilize all classes .Poor commanders use simpleton meta builds .

wrong, good commanders bring discipline and understand what kind of assets are required to achieve the objective. poor commanders, let the undisciplined fester until defeat is imminent.

Translation:

yell at everyone really loud to bring more guards.

[Voltekka.2375]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:Good commanders can utilize all classes .Poor commanders use simpleton meta builds .

wrong, good commanders bring discipline and understand what kind of assets are required to achieve the objective. poor commanders, let the undisciplined fester until defeat is imminent.

Translation:

yell at everyone really loud to bring more guards.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:Good commanders can utilize all classes .Poor commanders use simpleton meta builds .

wrong, good commanders bring discipline and understand what kind of assets are required to achieve the objective. poor commanders, let the undisciplined fester until defeat is imminent.

Translation:

yell at everyone really loud to bring more guards.

And heralds! And scourges! And JOIN TS

[jakt.9381]

What does anyone expect to accomplish with this kind of thread? Some magical unwritten rule that all commanders will agree to shoot themselves in the foot by leading a bunch of core rangers into battle against a well comped zerg? Its not going to happen for any commander that values winning over your feelings, which is none. No one likes the meta but it is what it is so blame Anet for their shit balance, not the commander for playing the game.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Princ.3598 said:Is this a common occurence on your servers aswell?

No. I've only see this happen if, as you stated yourself, the squad gets full and raid professions are preferred to join.

[Mokk.2397]

@shiri.4257 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:Good commanders can utilize all classes .Poor commanders use simpleton meta builds .

wrong, good commanders bring discipline and understand what kind of assets are required to achieve the objective. poor commanders, let the undisciplined fester until defeat is imminent.

DEAD WRONG. Discipline has nothing to do with utilizing ALL available resources .Each Class is a resource and each has a specific function and advantage in a battle.A good commander would know that .Besides that many people in this game forget that it is JUST a game and not an occupation.People play this to get away from the daily BS of real life and must be allowed to play what ever they like when they like and where they like.And it's attitudes like yours that keeps people from joining the WvW group.It's attitudes like yours that is killing WvW.

[Klypto.1703]

It is why decent wvw players know what class to be on depending on the scale of combat so if your squad goes over 15-30 area that is when its important to be using what they refer to as the meta or something that can fight it. Below that amount the meta doesn't help anyone because you are basically a havoc group at that point and is when the medium armor classes do better so its situational on what is needed you just have to know what will best help everyone on your side.

[Chaba.5410]

@Mokk.2397 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:Good commanders can utilize all classes .Poor commanders use simpleton meta builds .

wrong, good commanders bring discipline and understand what kind of assets are required to achieve the objective. poor commanders, let the undisciplined fester until defeat is imminent.

DEAD WRONG. Discipline has nothing to do with utilizing ALL available resources .Each Class is a resource and each has a specific function and advantage in a battle.A good commander would know that .Besides that many people in this game forget that it is JUST a game and not an occupation.People play this to get away from the daily BS of real life and must be allowed to play what ever they like when they like and where they like.And it's attitudes like yours that keeps people from joining the WvW group.It's attitudes like yours that is killing WvW.

OK. Each class has a specific function and advantage in a battle. Explain then how come, for example, soccer teams don't just utilize more than one goaltender if all they've got are more goaltenders than forwards, halfbacks, and fullbacks? Do you think that soccer team will win?

People can play whatever they like, sure, they just don't need to be making demands to be on the squad team.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@coro.3176 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@hobotnicax.7918 said:Positioning is key.

You've no idea how many times I've tried to make that point when people criticize Ranger LB damage lolRanger was my first character in Gw2 and i've been running some form of Archer build since the game launched.Positioning is vital to play an Archer effectively.. and a good Ranger who actively focuses on positioning can do some serious damage... and put down constant ranged pressure from relative safety.. even in the pvp modes.

I can see some valid complaints in this thread.. specially against Rangers who don't know what they are doing and burst down their own squads thanks to reflects (which can happen with any class running ranged weapons) but it's pretty bad to discriminate all players based on their class and nothing else..A few bad experiences with a few Rangers is no excuse to treat all Ranger players like kitten.

It doesn't matter how good your positioning is if the enemy squad has permanent rotating bubbles. You're just never going to hit them (outside of a brief window of unblockable).

Oh sure.. although personally i've rarely had to deal with that since it requires a certain kind of organization that most squads don't have when i'm typically playing.But in terms of fairness I harbor no ill will against blobs that are equipped and prepared to deal with my playstyle.Simply comes down to them being better and their victory is well earned.

Projectiles are just in a bad spot for WvW combat.

Yeah they are a bit, and that does diminish ranged builds quite a bit in some situations.You can get around it in some ways though.. as I said, get above the enemy blob and pick people off behind the bubbles/walls.A zerg clustering in a bubble is going to be bombarded with AoE so there will be those that back out to heal or avoid it.. easy pickings then for a Ranger with the high ground.You could also run Signet of the Hunt which makes your attacks unblocable for 6 seconds which will make those arrows ignore reflect entirely and hit those hiding in the bubbles.Likewise if both squads are using reflect bubbles Ranger arrows will bounce off the enemy reflect.. hit the ally squad reflect and bounce back at their original target ignoring the original reflect so it's very possible for a Squad with Rangers to avoid friendly fire by rotating their own reflects as well.

I prefer the high ground option myself for most situations though.. It's easy to do and I enjoy position playing anyway, using the terrain to my advantage is part of the reason I like Ranger so much, Plus It makes me responsible for my own choice of playstyle without being a burden on any squads or groups.

Ranger could definitely benefit from more access to unblockable though.. with Signet of the Hunt and Unstoppable Union.. they've got at most 10 seconds of unblockable.The 6 seconds from Signet is good but that 40 second CD is painful for prolonged encounters against bubble rotation.

I wouldn't bother mate...

There are experienced players who learnt how to make it work and there are those who can't.Just like terrorism, a few bad apples gives the rest a reputation that a lot of uneducated people will lump together.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Meh, I play stupid off-meta builds because I enjoy them more than meta zerg builds, but I don't expect a spot in a squad. Commanders have every right to be selective. I frankly would not want to put in the effort to command, and if I did, I wouldn't want randoms following me around expecting equal accommodation. As far as I am aware invisible tags only exist as a workaround but are not an actual feature; if invisible tags were an officially supported thing, I could perhaps be more sympathetic.Not being in the squad means I am free to do my idiotic squirrel suicide missions and not feel guilty about them, and when I am being serious I can still have a strong impact on the fringes of the fight. Now with the Warclaw you can even chill in the back and wait for downs to secure, which in itself can have a pretty decent impact, and you don't need a squad spot to succeed at that. I think it's important to accept that by playing an off-meta build, you are being more selfish than those prioritizing their group's success, so naturally it makes sense that you are not going to be as welcome to a group-oriented environment. You can still assist and/or follow the tag without actually being in the squad.

I will say that I will often attempt to join open squads when on my healer rev, but that is because I want to be able to see people's godkitten healthbars so I can actually heal effectively. I can usually sneak into squads and even get a kushy FB subgroup because I am under the guise of the herald icon, but I wouldn't care about joining if non-squadded healthbars were visible. I just dont like playing the guessing game or UI Wars 2.

[Mokk.2397]

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:Good commanders can utilize all classes .Poor commanders use simpleton meta builds .

wrong, good commanders bring discipline and understand what kind of assets are required to achieve the objective. poor commanders, let the undisciplined fester until defeat is imminent.

DEAD WRONG. Discipline has nothing to do with utilizing ALL available resources .Each Class is a resource and each has a specific function and advantage in a battle.A good commander would know that .Besides that many people in this game forget that it is JUST a game and not an occupation.People play this to get away from the daily BS of real life and must be allowed to play what ever they like when they like and where they like.And it's attitudes like yours that keeps people from joining the WvW group.It's attitudes like yours that is killing WvW.

OK. Each class has a specific function and advantage in a battle. Explain then how come, for example, soccer teams don't just utilize more than one goaltender if all they've got are more goaltenders than forwards, halfbacks, and fullbacks? Do you think that soccer team will win?

People can play whatever they like, sure, they just don't need to be making demands to be on the squad team.

Soccer teams have only 11 players that utilize all available talent to accomplish a goal.But by using a dictated Meta you can eliminate the goal tender because a defender or striker could be just as good .And people are just getting kicked from squads for not using the current meta without demands and being ostracized for playing what they want to play.Even to the point of public ridicule .And I will repeat again that its this exclusionary attitude that is deterring new players from staying in WvW and making many veterans want to leave. You guys keep asking for more from WvW as long as it only on your terms and this is killing WvW.

[Voltekka.2375]

@Mokk.2397 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:Good commanders can utilize all classes .Poor commanders use simpleton meta builds .

wrong, good commanders bring discipline and understand what kind of assets are required to achieve the objective. poor commanders, let the undisciplined fester until defeat is imminent.

DEAD WRONG. Discipline has nothing to do with utilizing ALL available resources .Each Class is a resource and each has a specific function and advantage in a battle.A good commander would know that .Besides that many people in this game forget that it is JUST a game and not an occupation.People play this to get away from the daily BS of real life and must be allowed to play what ever they like when they like and where they like.And it's attitudes like yours that keeps people from joining the WvW group.It's attitudes like yours that is killing WvW.

OK. Each class has a specific function and advantage in a battle. Explain then how come, for example, soccer teams don't just utilize more than one goaltender if all they've got are more goaltenders than forwards, halfbacks, and fullbacks? Do you think that soccer team will win?

People can play whatever they like, sure, they just don't need to be making demands to be on the squad team.

Soccer teams have only 11 players that utilize all available talent to accomplish a goal.But by using a dictated Meta you can eliminate the goal tender because a defender or striker could be just as good .And people are just getting kicked from squads for not using the current meta without demands and being ostracized for playing what they want to play.Even to the point of public ridicule .And I will repeat again that its this exclusionary attitude that is deterring new players from staying in WvW and making many veterans want to leave. You guys keep asking for more from WvW as long as it only on your terms and this is killing WvW.

Ranger "talent" is overshadowed by other classes, classes that are way more "talented" in zergs. No "exclusionary" attitude or whatever, ranger just doesnt bring enough in zergs compared to necro, firebrand, herald, spellbreaker and healscrapper. If you like ranger and like to play it for fun, its more than fine. But you need no squad.

[NexChem.9768]

I just had to log in to say my opinion on this topic. When u want to do fractals with random ppl u have to have meta build. When u dont have right build or have troll build what others do ? They kick u from party and u have to start whole fractal over again. It happend to me many times just because i didnt have meta build for fractals.In WvWvW is easyer, u just dont get invite to squad but it doesnt mean u cant run with tag. Want to play in squad ? Bring meta class. Want to play whatever u want ? Play it ! but dont get inv to squad ur choice.