I feel like Bound of Faith takes some fun out of mounts

[ROMANG.1903]

I don't like having to mount my Springer, jump, use Bound of Faith, glide, and then take the Griffon in order to optimize my altitude. There are many places where this skillchain can get us to places that we wouldn't be able to reach so easily otherwise because of our comparatively lower altitude (notably in the Domain of Istan), and I feel like this removes the fun out of the "joy of movement" the devs were so proud of when introducing the mounts.

There is a debuff that prevents us from mounting, which lasts just a second after we used Bound of Faith, probably to avoid bugs. I suggest to make that debuff permanent until we reach the ground. This would not only make it feel like a commitment to jump out of our mount, but would also make gliding useful again, because it would become the only way to keep directing ourselves after we jumped out. And it would do all this without breaking the game!

As a bonus, maybe we could have the option of replacing the crystaline wings animation by our currently equipped glider? I really don't like this animation... :/

[Mewcifer.5198]

I don't understand your point of view because mine is almost the exact opposite. Being able to chain together these kinds of abilities to reach new heights it, to me, a thing that makes the game feel more dynamic and fun.

[ROMANG.1903]

@Mewcifer.5198 said:I don't understand your point of view because mine is almost the exact opposite. Being able to chain together these kinds of abilities to reach new heights it, to me, a thing that makes the game feel more dynamic and fun.

I don't personally like having to combine so many actions for something that simple. To put it simply, if we're supposed to be able to launch ourselves from such heights before using the griffon, why does the griffon not have its own jump skill? In my opinion, Bound of Faith should be restricted to a way of leaving our mount from great heights, without dying from fall damage, a bit like a parachute... Or a glider.

And I'll admit, that making gliding useful again makes, to me, most of the appeal of my suggestion. I find the gliding mechanic amazing, and I don't like that the only true opportunity to use it is when we're in combat, near a cliff, and want to get away. And even in this very niche and rare situation, we swap to our griffon as soon as we get out of combat...

[Randulf.7614]

@Mewcifer.5198 said:I don't understand your point of view because mine is almost the exact opposite. Being able to chain together these kinds of abilities to reach new heights it, to me, a thing that makes the game feel more dynamic and fun.

I agree

[LucianDK.8615]

Being able to chain mounts together is awesome. I simply do not see how the OPs view is sensible.

[Naxos.2503]

Fun can be derived of complexity. In that particular case, a successful stunt is only possible if your aim and your timing is correct, which makes it a bit of a challenge, and fun in it's own way, in my book. To wit, I actually already switch from my griffon to glider by using Bond of Faith to benefit from updrafts and ley lines, it has more uses than meets the eye, that particular trick is very Handy to naviguate Season 3 maps.

[Cobrakon.3108]

Use gliding instead? What about people that don't have heart of thorns? You can just cancel BoF mid air using gliding and basically you have what you want already without robbing others of being able to combo. "Play your way" as they say.

[Excursion.9752]

With the addition of the skyscale and basically having a ton of vertical movement I do not think that this is a valid request because anet is already promoting going up. I do agree with you about the animation...never have liked it much.

[Adrianna.3092]

Your idea wouldnt even work.... you can switch to gliding with your idea yes? well you can mount both griffon and skyscale in the air while gliding.. which means the only way this idea of yours would work is if they turned off gliding as well and that would just not be fun at all and would not help gliding in the least.... unless you also think they should get rid of the ability to mount skyscale and griffon while in the air...

[Arzurag.7506]

I see no problem with being able to chain these abilities together, as long as it´s optional and not a necessity.

[Westenev.5289]

I mean, I don't do any of this hogwash and I don't feel any worse off for it. :# Different people like different levels and styles of play, who am I to tell other people to stop having fun just because I don't do something?

[Holykitten.3064]

Or, you could stop using the combo yourself, and let others continue doing it. Really not seeing the issue outside of “I don’t like it so remove it for everyone”. /shrug

[HazyDaisy.4107]

Some players don't have the Griffon or Skyscale and already go directly into gliding from Springer + Bond of Faith. Adding a remount nuh-uh once in air wouldn't re-invigorate gliding, it'd just punish griffoners and skyscalers that have access to and can adequately achieve the combo of Springer + Bond of Faith into an aerial mount glide. It's a step backwards to put that sort of restriction on the travel of players that have purchased POF and/or mastered up the mounts and skills to use them in this way.

[Game of Bones.8975]

"I don't use the Engineer, so it shouldn't be available as a profession."That's what I'm reading when I see people suggest taking out game content.

[lisica.6583]

I like it the way it is.

[Cyninja.2954]

@ROMANG.1903 said:I don't like having to mount my Springer, jump, use Bound of Faith, glide, and then take the Griffon in order to optimize my altitude.

Then don't.

You mentioned yourself, it is not required for most places and simple makes traversal easier. If you do not enjoy it, then don't use this feature.

@ROMANG.1903 said:I don't personally like having to combine so many actions for something that simple. To put it simply, if we're supposed to be able to launch ourselves from such heights before using the griffon, why does the griffon not have its own jump skill? In my opinion, Bound of Faith should be restricted to a way of leaving our mount from great heights, without dying from fall damage, a bit like a parachute... Or a glider.

And I'll admit, that making gliding useful again makes, to me, most of the appeal of my suggestion. I find the gliding mechanic amazing, and I don't like that the only true opportunity to use it is when we're in combat, near a cliff, and want to get away. And even in this very niche and rare situation, we swap to our griffon as soon as we get out of combat...

Or, you can keep gliding if you enjoy it. No one is forcing you to get on a mount.

This entire complaint can be summarized as:I enjoy more limited traversal but do do not enjoy being less efficient than other players. I demand other players be limited in their movement options so I can use my favorite way of traversal without being disadvantaged.

I'm sorry to say, but that's not how balance should work. Bond of Faith and the other mount masteries are designed with enough limitations in mind. What about the next person who disagrees with the Bunny being able to jump so high? After all, in days long past we had to meticulously jumping puzzle traverse up on a horizontal plane. What about people who disagree with the raptor jump? Etc.

[ROMANG.1903]

@"Cyninja.2954" said:This entire complaint can be summarized as:I enjoy more limited traversal but do do not enjoy being less efficient than other players. I demand other players be limited in their movement options so I can use my favorite way of traversal without being disadvantaged.

I'm not going to argue, that's exactly what it is. Limitations are not necessarily a bad thing, it gives challenge and a sense of pride in mastering the options we have at our disposal. But let's be honest, we have enough movement options already so that we don't feel "limited"

I'm sorry to say, but that's not how balance should work. Bond of Faith and the other mount masteries are designed with enough limitations in mind. What about the next person who disagrees with the Bunny being able to jump so high? After all, in days long past we had to meticulously jumping puzzle traverse up on a horizontal plane. What about people who disagree with the raptor jump? Etc.

This is simply a personal point of view. You think Bound of Faith is limited enough already, I don't. My issue with it, and that's what differenciates my complain from one about the springer, for example, is that it allows to chain together movement options that were not designed to be chained in the first place. The mastery feels like something that was made because they ran short of ideas, it is clunky and doesn't participate in the "joy of movement". It has some fun uses, like getting that one last push you need to get over that cliff. But I do not think that making the springer mandatory in order to optimize our griffon is a fun mechanic, it feels like a chore we have to do in order to get to the fun part. In some situations, it also removes the idea of each mount having a niche use: I don't have to choose between the springer and the griffon, since I can use both.

[Cyninja.2954]

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:

This entire complaint can be summarized as:I enjoy more limited traversal but do do not enjoy being less efficient than other players. I demand other players be limited in their movement options so I can use my favorite way of traversal without being disadvantaged.

I'm not going to argue, that's exactly what it is. Limitations are not necessarily a bad thing, it gives challenge and a sense of pride in mastering the options we have at our disposal. But let's be honest, we have enough movement options already so that we don't feel "limited"

Fair enough, at least you are open and honest about this. I can respect that.

The assessment of how much movement options are good or bad is subjective.

During vanilla there was no mounts. Should we revert back to this? Before PoF there was only gliding and traversing HoT maps was a lot harder.

Before the Living World Season 4 we had only core mounts and no Bond of Faith or other skills, is this the sweet spot?

The point is, people will have different opinions on which step was ideal. For me personally, as long as all movement options remain viable, I am fine with quality of life improvements.

Then there is players who want only 1 viable mount, see the current threads of pure flying demands.

TL;DR: the game evolves, different players feel different about how efficient movement should be. Fun will be subjective for every one.

[Ygdrasill.9135]

I just realized something. With the Skyscale, this is an infinite elevator though a slow one. Get to the highest point you can with the skyscale/springer, jump with the springer, Bound of Faith, glide, mount the Skyscale (that's the first mastery and works just like the Griffon). Use your new flight bar to go up, hover until Bound of Faith cools down, repeat. Unless you lose as much or more altitude gliding before you can re-mount, you could go as high as you wanted this way.

[Yamazuki.6073]

Gliding already has a use even with Griffon being present. You can't mount while in combat, and it's still used for some events. PoF maps are designed around mounts, any HoT related objects are just there as a bonus for people who also have HoT, as not everyone who owns PoF owns HoT.

[LucianDK.8615]

@Yamazuki.6073 said:Gliding already has a use even with Griffon being present. You can't mount while in combat, and it's still used for some events. PoF maps are designed around mounts, any HoT related objects are just there as a bonus for people who also have HoT, as not everyone who owns PoF owns HoT.

Dont forget that griffon cant use updrafts or leyline gliding. Making gliders still relevant. I know people have asked for griffon to be able to use updrafts, but that would take away from gliders.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Ygdrasill.9135 said:I just realized something. With the Skyscale, this is an infinite elevator though a slow one. Get to the highest point you can with the skyscale/springer, jump with the springer, Bound of Faith, glide, mount the Skyscale (that's the first mastery and works just like the Griffon). Use your new flight bar to go up, hover until Bound of Faith cools down, repeat. Unless you lose as much or more altitude gliding before you can re-mount, you could go as high as you wanted this way.

The Skyscales blue bar drain (the one used for flight mechanics and altitude gain) is dependant on both your last ground point of origin and an invisible ceiling after which either causes the drain to become higher and higher (the filling red bar which reduces the poosible blue bar).

You are capped currently as to how far up you can get in this way.

The only bug as of now is:If you gain altitude via a different method, say using a Lex-Line, the now a lot lower last original point on the ground will cause an immediate full red (thus empty blue bar) when mounting the Scyscale mid air. The developers are aware of the issue and are working on it.

[Teratus.2859]

Chaining is mostly the fun of Bond of Faith.

Any changes like you suggested would effectively kill the utility of the skill without fixing any of the problems it can be abused for, such as skipping to the end of most JP's.

This too is largely tied into my argument about the limitations on the Skyscale being completely pointless.The second Anet decided to allow mounts to be used in all pre PoF maps they effectively destroyed them.If Anet want to stop people breaking out of maps and using mounts to get to places they don't want them to be able to get to then they would have to go back on that decision and block their use in old map.. but that's never going to happen and I can only imagine the backlash if they did lol.

[casualkenny.9817]

@ROMANG.1903 said:But I do not think that making the springer mandatory in order to optimize our griffon is a fun mechanic, it feels like a chore we have to do in order to get to the fun part. In some situations, it also removes the idea of each mount having a niche use: I don't have to choose between the springer and the griffon, since I can use both.

Is this self-contradictory?

Ur idea won't help you optimize ur griff on at all, since you are now a grounded griff on or a hop-on-the-spot bunny?

And this chaining actually gives each a niche use, since they combine to provide a new function?

But the most Impt thing is that no game content requires this specific combo (but only as an additional, better option in specific situations). As an adult, you can restrict yourself to get the end effect you desire, by simply not using the skill. You don't need a nanny to restrict your options so you are forced to not use this combo

[ROMANG.1903]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

This entire complaint can be summarized as:I enjoy more limited traversal but do do not enjoy being less efficient than other players. I demand other players be limited in their movement options so I can use my favorite way of traversal without being disadvantaged.

I'm not going to argue, that's exactly what it is. Limitations are not necessarily a bad thing, it gives challenge and a sense of pride in mastering the options we have at our disposal. But let's be honest, we have enough movement options already so that we don't feel "limited"

Fair enough, at least you are open and honest about this. I can respect that.

I just wanted to developp around what I said, as I think I found a beautiful way of saying it:

The most fun way of playing the game should also be the most optimal. I think that the current most optimal way of playing the game isn't the most fun, hence my original suggestion.