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What's your favourite villain in gw2?

hugo.4705

By hugo.4705
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Ultramex.1506

Ultramex.1506

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:(somehow managing to convince all the most xenophobic and misogynistic groups to like a foreign, female, individual and work for her).

This was a negative point for me, it took one talking plant through Omadd machine to convince 5 factions (Inquest/Krait/Aetherblade/Flame Legion/Dredge) with difference ideology and goal to be BFF?! B S

Please tell me at some point in the story, they were just using her to get what they want because all these factions are selfish, i find it hard to believe they would be that loyal to this.....character without question or be scared of her considering there are some figure within their rank that could cut Scarlet like vegetable.

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DoRi Silvia.4159

DoRi Silvia.4159

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Balthazar

Only and ONLY because I am a die hard guild wars 1 fan and I had always backed the god of war (only ran the aspect of balthazar on my dervish)Seeing balthazar not as a statue but as a character was so awesome and I loved it

Now if I could just have the fallen balthazar outfit.. life would be complete

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Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:I feel like we haven't had a proper villain in a while.Scarlet was a lot more interesting when she was still behind the scenes. Her chaotic evil was more.. chaotic.. than enticing.I also had much higher hopes for Joko, what with all the build up throughout gw1 and gw2. He even had the plague at some point, and we only barely get to see it in the same episode he dies.And then there's balthazar. I mean, I get he was weakened, no longer a real god. But come on.. he was the god of WAR! and you can beat him armour-less with auto-attack.At least caudecaus had some air of dignity until the last chapter he appeared in.

The inquest seem like the only proper course left, and thats only if the staff will ever write them a serious role. So far they've had the tools to become the big bad evil but have only acted out of comedic selfishness

We destroy the plague in the meta event of that zone. Seems people forget open world stuff is also part of the story.

Yea, but that happens afterwards. Palawa dies without proficiently utilizing the plague. And with him out of the way we can clear it the gandaran fortress and destroy all plague vessels

Well they weren't going to release the plague on the world. Could you imagine the way that would have affected the entire world. It would be a world altering event, and a whole lot of people would have hated it. And if the plague can't get out, the next best thing is to show plague victims, let them get trapped, show the ghosts charging in because they can get through the barrier even if the plague victims can't...I mean that was a really good scene. And Palawa's death scene was a really good scene too, probably my favorite in the entire game.

So yeah, it's not like they forgot about the plague. Considering it wasn't going to be released, I don't see how that's an actual complaint. He should have done more with the plague? He was preparing to and we stopped him.

Well, obviously not. A ruined tower is the most living world we'll ever get.I was just a little disappointed thst the catalyst of so much lore and spark was cancelled near its limelight.I had expected we'd follow Joko somewhere while dealing with the plague along the way. A quarantined area that would be the map.See some tragedy, some hopelessness. A spark of failure. That would've made the story so much darker and better, and Joko a much hateful villain

So your complaint is misplaced. See, there are different design decisions. James Bond saves the world...he doesn't usually save it after part of it is destroyed. But you wanting the story to go a certain way isn't a flaw with the story. It's your own personal desire not being met. There's nothing really wrong with the way it was handled. And again, that dialogue at the end with Joko is probably one of the most enjoyed/liked scenes I've ever seen people react to. I help a lot of guildies through story and achievements and so I've seen the reaction to this scene countless times and spoke about people.

I try to instill this in people all the time, but it often doesn't work. You not personally liking something doesn't make it bad. Same with me of course. It's just something I would have preferred different. But I'm not thinking most people disliked the end of the Joko story. I could have gone other ways, that's true. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with how it went.

The dialogue might be, but the ending has been widely condemned by people in game and across feedback platforms. Sure some people liked it, but the disappointment in the cheap, illogical death scene has not gone down well. Even the devs expressed a note of regret post episode after they saw the negative feedback which they acknowledged.

As for the episode build, I disagree with your analysis it was a well handled storyline and it is only expectations that weren’t managed. There were some excellent discussions on it in the lore forum and the episode feedback forum that described the problem in detail that I’ll try and dig out at some point.

If you liked it, then that is fine and yours and anyone else’s prerogative, but that doesn’t for me change that they rushed through the plague arc to move into aurenes story. We were very much still in the early stages of building the threat before Kourna and ep3 was far too soon to end both the plague and Joko.

Look in the thread where someone panned it and look how many positive responses that got. If you think that scene was panned, that's pure confirmation bias. I guarantee you far more people liked it than didn't. That's not even close to a guess. Beyond that there's nothing much to say.

There was a thread a while back, where someone listed their issues with the story and that was one of them. I posted a defense of that scene that got far more agreement than most posts I make my a long shot, and not much disagreement.

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Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:I feel like we haven't had a proper villain in a while.Scarlet was a lot more interesting when she was still behind the scenes. Her chaotic evil was more.. chaotic.. than enticing.I also had much higher hopes for Joko, what with all the build up throughout gw1 and gw2. He even had the plague at some point, and we only barely get to see it in the same episode he dies.And then there's balthazar. I mean, I get he was weakened, no longer a real god. But come on.. he was the god of WAR! and you can beat him armour-less with auto-attack.At least caudecaus had some air of dignity until the last chapter he appeared in.

The inquest seem like the only proper course left, and thats only if the staff will ever write them a serious role. So far they've had the tools to become the big bad evil but have only acted out of comedic selfishness

We destroy the plague in the meta event of that zone. Seems people forget open world stuff is also part of the story.

Yea, but that happens afterwards. Palawa dies without proficiently utilizing the plague. And with him out of the way we can clear it the gandaran fortress and destroy all plague vessels

Well they weren't going to release the plague on the world. Could you imagine the way that would have affected the entire world. It would be a world altering event, and a whole lot of people would have hated it. And if the plague can't get out, the next best thing is to show plague victims, let them get trapped, show the ghosts charging in because they can get through the barrier even if the plague victims can't...I mean that was a really good scene. And Palawa's death scene was a really good scene too, probably my favorite in the entire game.

So yeah, it's not like they forgot about the plague. Considering it wasn't going to be released, I don't see how that's an actual complaint. He should have done more with the plague? He was preparing to and we stopped him.

Well, obviously not. A ruined tower is the most living world we'll ever get.I was just a little disappointed thst the catalyst of so much lore and spark was cancelled near its limelight.I had expected we'd follow Joko somewhere while dealing with the plague along the way. A quarantined area that would be the map.See some tragedy, some hopelessness. A spark of failure. That would've made the story so much darker and better, and Joko a much hateful villain

So your complaint is misplaced. See, there are different design decisions. James Bond saves the world...he doesn't usually save it after part of it is destroyed. But you wanting the story to go a certain way isn't a flaw with the story. It's your own personal desire not being met. There's nothing really wrong with the way it was handled. And again, that dialogue at the end with Joko is probably one of the most enjoyed/liked scenes I've ever seen people react to. I help a lot of guildies through story and achievements and so I've seen the reaction to this scene countless times and spoke about people.

I try to instill this in people all the time, but it often doesn't work. You not personally liking something doesn't make it bad. Same with me of course. It's just something I would have preferred different. But I'm not thinking most people disliked the end of the Joko story. I could have gone other ways, that's true. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with how it went.

The dialogue might be, but the ending has been widely condemned by people in game and across feedback platforms. Sure some people liked it, but the disappointment in the cheap, illogical death scene has not gone down well. Even the devs expressed a note of regret post episode after they saw the negative feedback which they acknowledged.

As for the episode build, I disagree with your analysis it was a well handled storyline and it is only expectations that weren’t managed. There were some excellent discussions on it in the lore forum and the episode feedback forum that described the problem in detail that I’ll try and dig out at some point.

If you liked it, then that is fine and yours and anyone else’s prerogative, but that doesn’t for me change that they rushed through the plague arc to move into aurenes story. We were very much still in the early stages of building the threat before Kourna and ep3 was far too soon to end both the plague and Joko.

Look in the thread where someone panned it and look how many positive responses that got. If you think that scene was panned, that's pure confirmation bias. I guarantee you far more people liked it than didn't. That's not even close to a guess. Beyond that there's nothing much to say.

There was a thread a while back, where someone listed their issues with the story and that was one of them. I posted a defense of that scene that got far more agreement than most posts I make my a long shot, and not much disagreement.

It was panned. It was utterly reviled by so many people at the time and still gets brought up as an issue today. That specific feedback has been acknowledged by the devs (I think a guild chat mentioned it too)

I’m not disagreeing people liked it and I’m not taking away the enjoyment you or a few others have, but I’ve seen an enormous number more people who thought that death part after the monologue was terrible and premature. Even the devs have expressed a regret in the handling of it.

Pretty much everyone though seems to agree the monologue itself remains the best part it best cutscene anywhere in the game. And I support that.

Cheap, childish moments are too often the hallmark of this game’s story and the way Joko was thrown away purely for laughs (they admitted aurenes later death and resurrection wasn’t planned by that point)made a lot of people unhappy

  • many wanted more plague story. And I agree with them there
  • Many wanted a lingering villain that wasn’t an Elder Dragon
  • Many wanted a villain with more fleshed out motivations after the Scarlet fiasco. Even the devs admitted in a linked thread yesterday they didn’t do enough to flesh out Jokos motivations and acknowledged they should have done more
  • Many took umbrage with Aurene dominating the plot and coming out of nowhere (literally given the direction she appeared from) to end an arc and removing us as the hero. Ultimately we do very little in ep3 since others do the intel, the ghost army remove the plague army and Aurene kills Joko. We were mostly there for dialogue and support.

I have nothing against you and a few others enjoying it, but it was ill received and I believe ep3 still remains overall the least popular episode in ls4 with Jokos death in part, a stated contribution to it.

You are welcome to disagree with me, but I’m holding ground that this was one of the lowest points in the gw2 story to date.

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Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:I feel like we haven't had a proper villain in a while.Scarlet was a lot more interesting when she was still behind the scenes. Her chaotic evil was more.. chaotic.. than enticing.I also had much higher hopes for Joko, what with all the build up throughout gw1 and gw2. He even had the plague at some point, and we only barely get to see it in the same episode he dies.And then there's balthazar. I mean, I get he was weakened, no longer a real god. But come on.. he was the god of WAR! and you can beat him armour-less with auto-attack.At least caudecaus had some air of dignity until the last chapter he appeared in.

The inquest seem like the only proper course left, and thats only if the staff will ever write them a serious role. So far they've had the tools to become the big bad evil but have only acted out of comedic selfishness

We destroy the plague in the meta event of that zone. Seems people forget open world stuff is also part of the story.

Yea, but that happens afterwards. Palawa dies without proficiently utilizing the plague. And with him out of the way we can clear it the gandaran fortress and destroy all plague vessels

Well they weren't going to release the plague on the world. Could you imagine the way that would have affected the entire world. It would be a world altering event, and a whole lot of people would have hated it. And if the plague can't get out, the next best thing is to show plague victims, let them get trapped, show the ghosts charging in because they can get through the barrier even if the plague victims can't...I mean that was a really good scene. And Palawa's death scene was a really good scene too, probably my favorite in the entire game.

So yeah, it's not like they forgot about the plague. Considering it wasn't going to be released, I don't see how that's an actual complaint. He should have done more with the plague? He was preparing to and we stopped him.

Well, obviously not. A ruined tower is the most living world we'll ever get.I was just a little disappointed thst the catalyst of so much lore and spark was cancelled near its limelight.I had expected we'd follow Joko somewhere while dealing with the plague along the way. A quarantined area that would be the map.See some tragedy, some hopelessness. A spark of failure. That would've made the story so much darker and better, and Joko a much hateful villain

So your complaint is misplaced. See, there are different design decisions. James Bond saves the world...he doesn't usually save it after part of it is destroyed. But you wanting the story to go a certain way isn't a flaw with the story. It's your own personal desire not being met. There's nothing really wrong with the way it was handled. And again, that dialogue at the end with Joko is probably one of the most enjoyed/liked scenes I've ever seen people react to. I help a lot of guildies through story and achievements and so I've seen the reaction to this scene countless times and spoke about people.

I try to instill this in people all the time, but it often doesn't work. You not personally liking something doesn't make it bad. Same with me of course. It's just something I would have preferred different. But I'm not thinking most people disliked the end of the Joko story. I could have gone other ways, that's true. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with how it went.

The dialogue might be, but the ending has been widely condemned by people in game and across feedback platforms. Sure some people liked it, but the disappointment in the cheap, illogical death scene has not gone down well. Even the devs expressed a note of regret post episode after they saw the negative feedback which they acknowledged.

As for the episode build, I disagree with your analysis it was a well handled storyline and it is only expectations that weren’t managed. There were some excellent discussions on it in the lore forum and the episode feedback forum that described the problem in detail that I’ll try and dig out at some point.

If you liked it, then that is fine and yours and anyone else’s prerogative, but that doesn’t for me change that they rushed through the plague arc to move into aurenes story. We were very much still in the early stages of building the threat before Kourna and ep3 was far too soon to end both the plague and Joko.

Look in the thread where someone panned it and look how many positive responses that got. If you think that scene was panned, that's pure confirmation bias. I guarantee you far more people liked it than didn't. That's not even close to a guess. Beyond that there's nothing much to say.

There was a thread a while back, where someone listed their issues with the story and that was one of them. I posted a defense of that scene that got far more agreement than most posts I make my a long shot, and not much disagreement.

It was panned. It was utterly reviled by so many people at the time and still gets brought up as an issue today. That specific feedback has been acknowledged by the devs (I think a guild chat mentioned it too)

I’m not disagreeing people liked it and I’m not taking away the enjoyment you or a few others have, but I’ve seen an enormous number more people who thought that death part after the monologue was terrible and premature. Even the devs have expressed a regret in the handling of it.

Pretty much everyone though seems to agree the monologue itself remains the best part it best cutscene anywhere in the game. And I support that.

Cheap, childish moments are too often the hallmark of this game’s story and the way Joko was thrown away purely for laughs (they admitted aurenes later death and resurrection wasn’t planned by that point)made a lot of people unhappy
  • many wanted more plague story. And I agree with them there
  • Many wanted a lingering villain that wasn’t an Elder Dragon
  • Many wanted a villain with more fleshed out motivations after the Scarlet fiasco. Even the devs admitted in a linked thread yesterday they didn’t do enough to flesh out Jokos motivations and acknowledged they should have done more
  • Many took umbrage with Aurene dominating the plot and coming out of nowhere (literally given the direction she appeared from) to end an arc and removing us as the hero. Ultimately we do very little in ep3 since others do the intel, the ghost army remove the plague army and Aurene kills Joko. We were mostly there for dialogue and support.

I have nothing against you and a few others enjoying it, but it was ill received and I believe ep3 still remains overall the least popular episode in ls4 with Jokos death in part, a stated contribution to it.

You are welcome to disagree with me, but I’m holding ground that this was one of the lowest points in the gw2 story to date.

I should look for that thread. You're dead wrong on this.

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Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:I feel like we haven't had a proper villain in a while.Scarlet was a lot more interesting when she was still behind the scenes. Her chaotic evil was more.. chaotic.. than enticing.I also had much higher hopes for Joko, what with all the build up throughout gw1 and gw2. He even had the plague at some point, and we only barely get to see it in the same episode he dies.And then there's balthazar. I mean, I get he was weakened, no longer a real god. But come on.. he was the god of WAR! and you can beat him armour-less with auto-attack.At least caudecaus had some air of dignity until the last chapter he appeared in.

The inquest seem like the only proper course left, and thats only if the staff will ever write them a serious role. So far they've had the tools to become the big bad evil but have only acted out of comedic selfishness

We destroy the plague in the meta event of that zone. Seems people forget open world stuff is also part of the story.

Yea, but that happens afterwards. Palawa dies without proficiently utilizing the plague. And with him out of the way we can clear it the gandaran fortress and destroy all plague vessels

Well they weren't going to release the plague on the world. Could you imagine the way that would have affected the entire world. It would be a world altering event, and a whole lot of people would have hated it. And if the plague can't get out, the next best thing is to show plague victims, let them get trapped, show the ghosts charging in because they can get through the barrier even if the plague victims can't...I mean that was a really good scene. And Palawa's death scene was a really good scene too, probably my favorite in the entire game.

So yeah, it's not like they forgot about the plague. Considering it wasn't going to be released, I don't see how that's an actual complaint. He should have done more with the plague? He was preparing to and we stopped him.

Well, obviously not. A ruined tower is the most living world we'll ever get.I was just a little disappointed thst the catalyst of so much lore and spark was cancelled near its limelight.I had expected we'd follow Joko somewhere while dealing with the plague along the way. A quarantined area that would be the map.See some tragedy, some hopelessness. A spark of failure. That would've made the story so much darker and better, and Joko a much hateful villain

So your complaint is misplaced. See, there are different design decisions. James Bond saves the world...he doesn't usually save it after part of it is destroyed. But you wanting the story to go a certain way isn't a flaw with the story. It's your own personal desire not being met. There's nothing really wrong with the way it was handled. And again, that dialogue at the end with Joko is probably one of the most enjoyed/liked scenes I've ever seen people react to. I help a lot of guildies through story and achievements and so I've seen the reaction to this scene countless times and spoke about people.

I try to instill this in people all the time, but it often doesn't work. You not personally liking something doesn't make it bad. Same with me of course. It's just something I would have preferred different. But I'm not thinking most people disliked the end of the Joko story. I could have gone other ways, that's true. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with how it went.

The dialogue might be, but the ending has been widely condemned by people in game and across feedback platforms. Sure some people liked it, but the disappointment in the cheap, illogical death scene has not gone down well. Even the devs expressed a note of regret post episode after they saw the negative feedback which they acknowledged.

As for the episode build, I disagree with your analysis it was a well handled storyline and it is only expectations that weren’t managed. There were some excellent discussions on it in the lore forum and the episode feedback forum that described the problem in detail that I’ll try and dig out at some point.

If you liked it, then that is fine and yours and anyone else’s prerogative, but that doesn’t for me change that they rushed through the plague arc to move into aurenes story. We were very much still in the early stages of building the threat before Kourna and ep3 was far too soon to end both the plague and Joko.

Look in the thread where someone panned it and look how many positive responses that got. If you think that scene was panned, that's pure confirmation bias. I guarantee you far more people liked it than didn't. That's not even close to a guess. Beyond that there's nothing much to say.

There was a thread a while back, where someone listed their issues with the story and that was one of them. I posted a defense of that scene that got far more agreement than most posts I make my a long shot, and not much disagreement.

It was panned. It was utterly reviled by so many people at the time and still gets brought up as an issue today. That specific feedback has been acknowledged by the devs (I think a guild chat mentioned it too)

I’m not disagreeing people liked it and I’m not taking away the enjoyment you or a few others have, but I’ve seen an enormous number more people who thought that death part after the monologue was terrible and premature. Even the devs have expressed a regret in the handling of it.

Pretty much everyone though seems to agree the monologue itself remains the best part it best cutscene anywhere in the game. And I support that.

Cheap, childish moments are too often the hallmark of this game’s story and the way Joko was thrown away purely for laughs (they admitted aurenes later death and resurrection wasn’t planned by that point)made a lot of people unhappy
  • many wanted more plague story. And I agree with them there
  • Many wanted a lingering villain that wasn’t an Elder Dragon
  • Many wanted a villain with more fleshed out motivations after the Scarlet fiasco. Even the devs admitted in a linked thread yesterday they didn’t do enough to flesh out Jokos motivations and acknowledged they should have done more
  • Many took umbrage with Aurene dominating the plot and coming out of nowhere (literally given the direction she appeared from) to end an arc and removing us as the hero. Ultimately we do very little in ep3 since others do the intel, the ghost army remove the plague army and Aurene kills Joko. We were mostly there for dialogue and support.

I have nothing against you and a few others enjoying it, but it was ill received and I believe ep3 still remains overall the least popular episode in ls4 with Jokos death in part, a stated contribution to it.

You are welcome to disagree with me, but I’m holding ground that this was one of the lowest points in the gw2 story to date.

I should look for that thread. You're dead wrong on this.

I’m not. There are a huge number of threads, videos and other external platforms to support what I’ve said and for clarity I refer to his death not the speech with is universally praised

But I’m not going into a thread link tennis on it. You are welcome to research and find them - I already did(there are current ones and much older ones from last year)

If you still wish to maintain your assertion, I can do no more than just direct you to look.

I’m not going to derail the thread any further though - I shall leave you to believe what you wish.You obviously enjoyed the scene and ultimately it won’t matter what I say

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Ayakaru.6583

Ayakaru.6583

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:I feel like we haven't had a proper villain in a while.Scarlet was a lot more interesting when she was still behind the scenes. Her chaotic evil was more.. chaotic.. than enticing.I also had much higher hopes for Joko, what with all the build up throughout gw1 and gw2. He even had the plague at some point, and we only barely get to see it in the same episode he dies.And then there's balthazar. I mean, I get he was weakened, no longer a real god. But come on.. he was the god of WAR! and you can beat him armour-less with auto-attack.At least caudecaus had some air of dignity until the last chapter he appeared in.

The inquest seem like the only proper course left, and thats only if the staff will ever write them a serious role. So far they've had the tools to become the big bad evil but have only acted out of comedic selfishness

We destroy the plague in the meta event of that zone. Seems people forget open world stuff is also part of the story.

Yea, but that happens afterwards. Palawa dies without proficiently utilizing the plague. And with him out of the way we can clear it the gandaran fortress and destroy all plague vessels

Well they weren't going to release the plague on the world. Could you imagine the way that would have affected the entire world. It would be a world altering event, and a whole lot of people would have hated it. And if the plague can't get out, the next best thing is to show plague victims, let them get trapped, show the ghosts charging in because they can get through the barrier even if the plague victims can't...I mean that was a really good scene. And Palawa's death scene was a really good scene too, probably my favorite in the entire game.

So yeah, it's not like they forgot about the plague. Considering it wasn't going to be released, I don't see how that's an actual complaint. He should have done more with the plague? He was preparing to and we stopped him.

Well, obviously not. A ruined tower is the most living world we'll ever get.I was just a little disappointed thst the catalyst of so much lore and spark was cancelled near its limelight.I had expected we'd follow Joko somewhere while dealing with the plague along the way. A quarantined area that would be the map.See some tragedy, some hopelessness. A spark of failure. That would've made the story so much darker and better, and Joko a much hateful villain

So your complaint is misplaced. See, there are different design decisions. James Bond saves the world...he doesn't usually save it after part of it is destroyed. But you wanting the story to go a certain way isn't a flaw with the story. It's your own personal desire not being met. There's nothing really wrong with the way it was handled. And again, that dialogue at the end with Joko is probably one of the most enjoyed/liked scenes I've ever seen people react to. I help a lot of guildies through story and achievements and so I've seen the reaction to this scene countless times and spoke about people.

I try to instill this in people all the time, but it often doesn't work. You not personally liking something doesn't make it bad. Same with me of course. It's just something I would have preferred different. But I'm not thinking most people disliked the end of the Joko story. I could have gone other ways, that's true. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with how it went.

The dialogue might be, but the ending has been widely condemned by people in game and across feedback platforms. Sure some people liked it, but the disappointment in the cheap, illogical death scene has not gone down well. Even the devs expressed a note of regret post episode after they saw the negative feedback which they acknowledged.

As for the episode build, I disagree with your analysis it was a well handled storyline and it is only expectations that weren’t managed. There were some excellent discussions on it in the lore forum and the episode feedback forum that described the problem in detail that I’ll try and dig out at some point.

If you liked it, then that is fine and yours and anyone else’s prerogative, but that doesn’t for me change that they rushed through the plague arc to move into aurenes story. We were very much still in the early stages of building the threat before Kourna and ep3 was far too soon to end both the plague and Joko.

Look in the thread where someone panned it and look how many positive responses that got. If you think that scene was panned, that's pure confirmation bias. I guarantee you far more people liked it than didn't. That's not even close to a guess. Beyond that there's nothing much to say.

There was a thread a while back, where someone listed their issues with the story and that was one of them. I posted a defense of that scene that got far more agreement than most posts I make my a long shot, and not much disagreement.

It was panned. It was utterly reviled by so many people at the time and still gets brought up as an issue today. That specific feedback has been acknowledged by the devs (I think a guild chat mentioned it too)

I’m not disagreeing people liked it and I’m not taking away the enjoyment you or a few others have, but I’ve seen an enormous number more people who thought that death part after the monologue was terrible and premature. Even the devs have expressed a regret in the handling of it.

Pretty much everyone though seems to agree the monologue itself remains the best part it best cutscene anywhere in the game. And I support that.

Cheap, childish moments are too often the hallmark of this game’s story and the way Joko was thrown away purely for laughs (they admitted aurenes later death and resurrection wasn’t planned by that point)made a lot of people unhappy
  • many wanted more plague story. And I agree with them there
  • Many wanted a lingering villain that wasn’t an Elder Dragon
  • Many wanted a villain with more fleshed out motivations after the Scarlet fiasco. Even the devs admitted in a linked thread yesterday they didn’t do enough to flesh out Jokos motivations and acknowledged they should have done more
  • Many took umbrage with Aurene dominating the plot and coming out of nowhere (literally given the direction she appeared from) to end an arc and removing us as the hero. Ultimately we do very little in ep3 since others do the intel, the ghost army remove the plague army and Aurene kills Joko. We were mostly there for dialogue and support.

I have nothing against you and a few others enjoying it, but it was ill received and I believe ep3 still remains overall the least popular episode in ls4 with Jokos death in part, a stated contribution to it.

You are welcome to disagree with me, but I’m holding ground that this was one of the lowest points in the gw2 story to date.

I should look for that thread. You're dead wrong on this.

You seem kind of stuck in a confirmation bias. And i don't blame you if you've only seen positive threads. But there are lots of negative threads. And anet is very picky pin how far people cam go with negative threads, so you'll five much more complaints on reddit than here.

And you're repeatedly saying 'you're wrong' even though the devs themselves have agreed the Joko story was flawed.

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Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

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@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:I feel like we haven't had a proper villain in a while.Scarlet was a lot more interesting when she was still behind the scenes. Her chaotic evil was more.. chaotic.. than enticing.I also had much higher hopes for Joko, what with all the build up throughout gw1 and gw2. He even had the plague at some point, and we only barely get to see it in the same episode he dies.And then there's balthazar. I mean, I get he was weakened, no longer a real god. But come on.. he was the god of WAR! and you can beat him armour-less with auto-attack.At least caudecaus had some air of dignity until the last chapter he appeared in.

The inquest seem like the only proper course left, and thats only if the staff will ever write them a serious role. So far they've had the tools to become the big bad evil but have only acted out of comedic selfishness

We destroy the plague in the meta event of that zone. Seems people forget open world stuff is also part of the story.

Yea, but that happens afterwards. Palawa dies without proficiently utilizing the plague. And with him out of the way we can clear it the gandaran fortress and destroy all plague vessels

Well they weren't going to release the plague on the world. Could you imagine the way that would have affected the entire world. It would be a world altering event, and a whole lot of people would have hated it. And if the plague can't get out, the next best thing is to show plague victims, let them get trapped, show the ghosts charging in because they can get through the barrier even if the plague victims can't...I mean that was a really good scene. And Palawa's death scene was a really good scene too, probably my favorite in the entire game.

So yeah, it's not like they forgot about the plague. Considering it wasn't going to be released, I don't see how that's an actual complaint. He should have done more with the plague? He was preparing to and we stopped him.

Well, obviously not. A ruined tower is the most living world we'll ever get.I was just a little disappointed thst the catalyst of so much lore and spark was cancelled near its limelight.I had expected we'd follow Joko somewhere while dealing with the plague along the way. A quarantined area that would be the map.See some tragedy, some hopelessness. A spark of failure. That would've made the story so much darker and better, and Joko a much hateful villain

So your complaint is misplaced. See, there are different design decisions. James Bond saves the world...he doesn't usually save it after part of it is destroyed. But you wanting the story to go a certain way isn't a flaw with the story. It's your own personal desire not being met. There's nothing really wrong with the way it was handled. And again, that dialogue at the end with Joko is probably one of the most enjoyed/liked scenes I've ever seen people react to. I help a lot of guildies through story and achievements and so I've seen the reaction to this scene countless times and spoke about people.

I try to instill this in people all the time, but it often doesn't work. You not personally liking something doesn't make it bad. Same with me of course. It's just something I would have preferred different. But I'm not thinking most people disliked the end of the Joko story. I could have gone other ways, that's true. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with how it went.

The dialogue might be, but the ending has been widely condemned by people in game and across feedback platforms. Sure some people liked it, but the disappointment in the cheap, illogical death scene has not gone down well. Even the devs expressed a note of regret post episode after they saw the negative feedback which they acknowledged.

As for the episode build, I disagree with your analysis it was a well handled storyline and it is only expectations that weren’t managed. There were some excellent discussions on it in the lore forum and the episode feedback forum that described the problem in detail that I’ll try and dig out at some point.

If you liked it, then that is fine and yours and anyone else’s prerogative, but that doesn’t for me change that they rushed through the plague arc to move into aurenes story. We were very much still in the early stages of building the threat before Kourna and ep3 was far too soon to end both the plague and Joko.

Look in the thread where someone panned it and look how many positive responses that got. If you think that scene was panned, that's pure confirmation bias. I guarantee you far more people liked it than didn't. That's not even close to a guess. Beyond that there's nothing much to say.

There was a thread a while back, where someone listed their issues with the story and that was one of them. I posted a defense of that scene that got far more agreement than most posts I make my a long shot, and not much disagreement.

It was panned. It was utterly reviled by so many people at the time and still gets brought up as an issue today. That specific feedback has been acknowledged by the devs (I think a guild chat mentioned it too)

I’m not disagreeing people liked it and I’m not taking away the enjoyment you or a few others have, but I’ve seen an enormous number more people who thought that death part after the monologue was terrible and premature. Even the devs have expressed a regret in the handling of it.

Pretty much everyone though seems to agree the monologue itself remains the best part it best cutscene anywhere in the game. And I support that.

Cheap, childish moments are too often the hallmark of this game’s story and the way Joko was thrown away purely for laughs (they admitted aurenes later death and resurrection wasn’t planned by that point)made a lot of people unhappy
  • many wanted more plague story. And I agree with them there
  • Many wanted a lingering villain that wasn’t an Elder Dragon
  • Many wanted a villain with more fleshed out motivations after the Scarlet fiasco. Even the devs admitted in a linked thread yesterday they didn’t do enough to flesh out Jokos motivations and acknowledged they should have done more
  • Many took umbrage with Aurene dominating the plot and coming out of nowhere (literally given the direction she appeared from) to end an arc and removing us as the hero. Ultimately we do very little in ep3 since others do the intel, the ghost army remove the plague army and Aurene kills Joko. We were mostly there for dialogue and support.

I have nothing against you and a few others enjoying it, but it was ill received and I believe ep3 still remains overall the least popular episode in ls4 with Jokos death in part, a stated contribution to it.

You are welcome to disagree with me, but I’m holding ground that this was one of the lowest points in the gw2 story to date.

I should look for that thread. You're dead wrong on this.

You seem kind of stuck in a confirmation bias. And i don't blame you if you've only seen positive threads. But there are lots of negative threads. And anet is very picky pin how far people cam go with negative threads, so you'll five much more complaints on reddit than here.

And you're repeatedly saying 'you're wrong' even though the devs themselves have agreed the Joko story was flawed.

I spend more time on reddit than I do here, which has nothing to do with what Anet will and won't allow. But this is way off topic and I'm not going to reply to this thread any more for fear of derailing it further. Joko remains my favorite villain regardless. Well Joko and Scarlet both. I was pretty much over dragons before the game started, due to a dose of Skyrim, Dragon Age and Rift.

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Ototo.3214

Ototo.3214

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Probably have to go with Joko. Could just be because he's the one I'm most familiar with since I wasn't around for Scarlet in season 1. But between the Praise Joko meme and the way he met his end, I did enjoy him.Maybe one day we'll get a way of revisiting season 1...

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Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

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I suppose it's possible for people to enjoy Mary Sue flawless characters who never fail, but that doesn't make it a well written character.Before claiming that something is (or is not) well written, it helps to define what that even means. A lot of people seem to confuse good writing with what they like, and equate bad writing with what they dislike. That's the same attitude that mainstream critics used to relegate science fiction and mystery and action into literature niches. I don't, for example, care for Hemingway's contorted phraseology but I can't deny that his fiction moves people.

I get that some people hate Scarlet. What I don't get is why many of those people aren't satisfied with expressing that preference. I don't see why some of the Scarlet anti-fans insist on using pejorative language in referring to anyone who enjoyed her as a villain.

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hugo.4705

hugo.4705

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@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:I get that some people hate Scarlet. What I don't get is why many of those people aren't satisfied with expressing that preference. I don't see why some of the Scarlet anti-fans insist on using pejorative language in referring to anyone who enjoyed her as a villain.

Exactly that, especially the last sentence, thanks for pointing this out. Since the start of my thread I hesitated multiple time to report those anti-fans. I like Scarlet, and I'm not using grotesque whatever argument against peoples hating her. That's outrageous to insult those fans with "you wasn't here", "was bad writing for me so you are wrong", "you can't like flawless characters".

If it's for that, create a thread for that, but don't necro-post that one. Thanks.

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