I've noticed the Devs start to reach out, but this isn't how it should be.

[Ultramex.1506]

Since Anet has a history of staying quiet despite players vocal, this is a ticking time bomb that has finally exploded.

[Einlanzer.1627]

The company/game is horrifically mismanaged - the vast majority of players can see this, and the devs take their criticism personally when they shouldn't.

In reality, the devs should be sympathetic to the players, working harder internally to improve the status quo, and communicating frequently about it. That doesn't just mean Mike throwing out some yearly formal state-of-the-game letter. It means everyone interacting regularly on the forums across a number of topics - giving specific answers to questions and explaining what's going on on a more-or-less day-to-day basis. We have never had that, and it's led to nothing but more disconnect and toxicity.

100% of this is on Anet - their sad attempts at deflecting blame back to players is going to drive this game into the ground. There's absolutely no doubt that if they were to shift tactics and start over-communicating with players on an ongoing basis it would cause the negativity to gradually subside and be replaced with appreciation and enthusiasm, a healthier relationship between Anet and players, and a better product overall. I honestly have no clue how they could possibly have persisted for 7 years not realizing this. Again, this is not a good sign of their leadership.

They are not victims, they are a company who is failing to deliver a satisfying product after people invested enormously in them. When other MMOs can churn out twice the amount of content in half the time using a smaller staff there's a clear leadership problem, and I do not believe this is an exaggeration. What frustrates everyone is that everyone can clearly see GW2's enormous potential, and the team has been totally incapable of delivering on that potential for years on end. It's gone on long enough, and I sincerely hope the very justified backlash from this event sends a shockwave that leads to some significant changes.

Also, they apparently have an open office and it's well-documented at this point those were a terrible fad that basically kill productivity. https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/325959

[Mewcifer.5198]

@"GreyFox.8046" said:Alright I've read the replies to this and seen the screenshots that some of you posted. I'm baffled. Truly.Does Arena Net seriously view our voices as "disrespectful"?Let's take a step back Arena Net, please. When people start voicing their opinions it usually comes from passion. Passion from the game YOU made, that THEY want improved. Of course we have people who will say "Either you like it or leave it" "You're not entitled to say your opinion" etc...Yes we are. Everyone that has supported this game has the right to voice their passionate opinions to see the game flourish into something better. No one wants to see their favorite game lose its touch. Obviously each player has their preferences, but ultimately it's up to the Devs to see which opinions should be taken into consideration. However I don't mean being picky and only accepting heartfelt love letters. Let's be realistic here a bit.Yes we understand the team is not the biggest, and yes its game development we can't expect immediate results, but we just want to know that the team listens. That's all.

Worth keeping in mind that the screenshot where the person was told to keep any dislike to themself because other people Don't want to hear it is ancient and the moderator who sent the message no longer works for ANet.

[Swizzle.7982]

I think it’s just a result of this being a modern trend in the industry, I doubt it was done with malicious intent.

The whole “toxic” fad is pretty amusing, and it’s partially due to the way we imagine everyone on the internet to be generally just like us. We forget that there are children and people from very different cultures that we interact with online. In real life we make allowances for this type of thing but since we can’t do so online it can be easy to view the same thing In an online space as being more toxic.

Death threats for instance probably wouldn’t be taken as very serious examples of toxic gamer culture if we found out that, for example, those comments came from a nine year old. Similarly in the real world we might excuse the behaviour of someone who is obsessively focused on a topic (and perhaps not being so in a very socially acceptable way) if we’re aware that they have autism - for instance.

As for the real issue - Anets silence and poor communication -this has been an issue for YEARS, the last time it blew up I remember Anet making a promise to do better, but it never lasts. I’m not really sure what people expect. Since we don’t get openness and honesty we have to assume they don’t see that as being good for business. Take that as you will.

[Tinnel.4369]

@Einlanzer.1627 said:I honestly have no clue how they could possibly have persisted for 7 years not realizing this.

No legit competition.

It's easy to see how they're mistaking doing the right thing and being the only thing. If something that can compete with the combat system and low grind model hits they'll finally feel the pinch, otherwise they just see people playing and revenue.

How people speak with their time and dollars is what gets attention, not their actual words. Words don't go in a spreadsheet and a monthly report, numbers do.

[yann.1946]

Op someone can give feedback and be toxic at the same time. And this time their Is a lot of toxic feedback.

I'm not saying I don't understand why. And I agree that rubis statement is not going to help.But that is no excuse to behave toxic.

[Wakani.1829]

If arenanet's developers and PR department actually mean it when they pat eachother on the back on streams, and repeatedly proclaim their love for the community who plays their game, then the developers and PR department would get on the ball now, and take the time to answer the questions the community who wasn't being toxic put to them.

They overhyped an event, that shoulden't even have been an event, to the point where the suspense building matched that of a major content drop / expansion announcement, and neither was the case. the stream they had the day before, where they on several occations hinted to the announcement, and said theres SO MUCH TO SAY, but not yet! - was a gross over hype of something that simply wasnt that hype worthy, and thats not toxic to point out.

roughly 15 minutes of the 1 hour was spent on the actual announcement, while the rest was more shoulder clapping, and pushing merchandise that noone asked for - now dont get me wrong, i dont mind merchandise, i pre-ordered the collectors edition on day one of it being available, but, you dont spent 45 minutes running out the clock, and pushing merchandise, when you've hyped the community in the way that they did.

This was a giant PR disaster, and one that could've been avoided if they (or NCsoft in the case that they pushed for it against the developers and PR departments wishes) had actually taken a step back, and looked at what the community has been telling them for more than 6 years now.

Guildwars 1 had 2 major expansion drops within 1.5 years of the original game releasing, we're 7 years into GuildWars2 now, and we have no clue if there will be more content to satisfy the masses, because lets be honest, while i find the livingworld storylines overall good, they arrent something that keep me (personally) playing. for those that it does, all power to you, i envy you - i dont want to take that away from you, but i do want content that meets my needs aswell.

and as a paying customer, i AM entitled to at least question that.

Someone made some great analogies after the stream, and ill put it bluntly altho some may find it ''toxic''.

Arenanet and NCsoft, when it comes to GuildWars2, are acting like a sandwich shop, that refuses to tell the regulars and customers that they stopped selling sandwiches

[kharmin.7683]

@Glider.5792 said:

@"GreyFox.8046" said:

Why are they focusing on the "toxicity"

In their eyes, every form of criticism is "spreading toxicity".

Too funny. I'd wager at least half of the posts on the forums are criticisms. It's all a matter of whether or not such criticism is constructive.

[Ashen.2907]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Zynk.9015 said:Because the subreddit is brigaded by people who have had their accounts banned for violating forum guidelines so they use the only social site they can and skirt the rules there.

Well, there was a time that any kind of criticism and any post that didn't praise the game was warranted a ban.

This is false.

@TheBravery.9615 said:

@Glider.5792 said:

@"GreyFox.8046" said:

Why are they focusing on the "toxicity"

In their eyes, every form of criticism is "spreading toxicity".

TheBravery already added the proof.

Nope.

I bitched about ascended on these forums ntil my fingers were ready to bleed. I called MO a liar. I called ANet a dishonest false advertising cheat.

My posts, and others expressing the same sentiments were never taken down.

I could repost those screenshots in a manner to show that Gaile Gray was declaring her love of Norn opera and deep fried snails. It wouldnt prove a thing.

[Impact.6213]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Zynk.9015 said:Because the subreddit is brigaded by people who have had their accounts banned for violating forum guidelines so they use the only social site they can and skirt the rules there.

Well, there was a time that any kind of criticism and any post that didn't praise the game was warranted a ban.

This is false.

@TheBravery.9615 said:

@Glider.5792 said:

@"GreyFox.8046" said:

Why are they focusing on the "toxicity"

In their eyes, every form of criticism is "spreading toxicity".

TheBravery already added the proof.

And is now banned.

[Xstein.2187]

Obviously I cannot speak on behalf of what someone else said and obviously I do not like the state of the game right now based on some of my previous posts, lol. However, I think there are a couple of things you need to realize.

1. These are individuals who made those comments, not the company. Maybe their comments are focussing on toxicity because after working so hard for this presentation, such behavior makes them feel pretty shitty psychologically. Some of them may also want to enjoy Pax and the weekend and having such a community reaction after this event makes it difficult. There are a lot of dynamic emotions flying around

2. You don't know the actual comments some of these people have said.

3. It is the companies responsibility to make such announcements you are talking about, not for the individual employees in their spare time.

4. Every employee does not have absolute control over everything that happens in the company.

5. I 100% agree with what Ruby said about abusive comments. Yes, there will always be abusive comments on the internet. However, it is always a good thing to at least try to decrease the quantity.

6. However, on the other hand, some comments may be pragmatic and make a person feel sad even though they were never meant to be abusive or a direct attack on an individual in the first place. But if someone calls what you did bad, of course you are likely to take it personally and take offense to it, especially if you spent a long time on it and are passionate about it.

For example, if someone says that Mike Z. as game directer or NcSoft was partially indirectly responsible for much of the emotional and phycological troubles Anet's employees are dealing with right now, of course he would likely feel sad about it. However, in the end, that still doesn't mean that it is not true or that changes shouldn't occur. Even if you are a good guy, doing your best, and are passionate about the game or product, you still have to control the problem and make changes accordingly. If you don't, it is just going to happen again and again until it can't happen 'again' any longer.

6. I don't think this is a one time event issue. This is not just about the announcement. I would look at it more like a bag of marbles with a hole in it. The marbles represent Anet's plans for the future. Slowly over time, a marble may fall through the hole and be revealed. All Anet did in their announcement was shake the bag a bit more to release more marbles. They also picked up some old marbles off the ground to show off again and say "Ooo shiny!", perhaps because there are no more marbles left in the bag anyway. However, if people didn't like the marbles that were falling out of the bag to begin with or the rest of the marbles left in the bag, of course they would be upset later as well when the rest of the marbles slowly fell out. All that happened is that more marbles fell sooner. It doesn't matter if the marbles continued to tinkle out and it doesn't matter if there was no hole and instead all the marbles were released at once. In the end, many people weren't happy with all that what was in the bag of marbles to begin with and therefore perhaps wanted to see a whole new, different bag of marbles.I'm sure there are some people who just wanted to see more of the same types marbles in the bag, but hell, I just wanted to see a different type of marble, regardless of weather it slowly fell out of the bag in the past or weather it was just shaken out of the bag now. I'm just not a big fan of blue marbles!

Anet may say "oh I shouldn't have shook the bag" or "oh I should have waited and revealed all the marbles at once"However, even though this may hurt someone's feelings, I'm saying NO, you should have shown a different or more varied bag of marbles to begin with!

p.s. Guys, they already likely communicated everything they have planned. They may have done this BECAUSE they wanted to communicate with us sooner, just like you are saying and they may not have plans after this yet. Perhaps you're just saying you wan't them to communicate better and reveal more marbles in their bag because you don't realize that over time they have slowly already revealed all their marbles to you already, just like you asked.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

@"Pirindolo.9427" said:What I cannot understand is how those vocal players(?) that are day after day flaming in reddit with how bad GW2 is since XXX, and how ridiculously easy has become and other stuff like that, keep coming day after day to suffer playing this great game. Masochism?

They don't, they get tired of none of there concerns being addressed, then leave. My four dead guilds show this. The game is currently catering to only one audience, the casual gemstore whales, if your not that target demographic you are being left behind. What is so short sighted is that if there is no one around to show off your gemstore skins, even the whales leave.I like to view all these "toxic" criticism similar to suicide victims, those toxic posts are cry for helps for a game that they love, but are getting more and more frustrated about playing. Those really committed to ending it all just leave, with no artifacts being left nothing behind, no forums post, no goodbye messages, just dissappears.

[Madja.1369]

@Ben K.6238 said:

@GreyFox.8046 said:Like I keep advocating for the team needing better communication, we have successful free to play games out there who always nail the communication and marketing, please it's not wrong to take note of them, no one will bat an eye. I say all this as someone who is passionate. The fixes to all of this backlash which would've been EASILY avoided if you just took a step back and actually saw the bigger picture to this community.

Which free-to-play games would be examples of this, in your view? I've got a fairly small list of games I've tried recently (I suppose you could say my search algorithm is depth-first) so I haven't played enough of that type to be sure.

From my personal experience I would say that the Runescape and the Warframe team are very adept at communicating with their community. The team behind Classic WoW also seem like they'll be good.

[SkyShroud.2865]

Anet as a company, the people working there, are really in their own world. They seemingly refuse to face the reality that the game is not doing well, the policies are not executed impartially and professionally, the fans are not happy with how the game is and will leave when more promising mmorpgs hit the market.

They keep talking about themselves and forgot that they are a business entity, they exist to make money and in this case, make a gaming product that can and will sell. They are detached from reality and even the working society as a whole. The people at top need to get this straight to all the staffs, fans can and will leave the moment better options exist and they are not gonna come back to a game with such poor track record, you gonna lose customers base, not just the money but also the population to keep your game attractive to new customers. Naturally, if the game stop selling well, you gonna make a loss and what gonna happen? Retrenchment of course. Anet is a ship and every onboard has to be responsible for it, the captain has no qualm throwing people off the ship to keep it afloat to save others.

Please act as a adult and think like one.

[Madja.1369]

@"gateless gate.8406" said:OP is referring to this statement: https://twitter.com/Rubi_/status/1167834718907203584

It's a recent trend in game development. It involves 1) doing something unpopular, 2) cherry-picking the 1% toxic comments while ignoring the 99% of feedback that is simply harsh/negative but untoxic, 3) using social media to bring attention to those 1% toxic comments.

This deflects attention away from the legitimate feedback and garners positive sympathy for the company that did the unpopular thing. Frequently, gaming news sites of a particular flavor (Kotaku, Polygon) will then publish an article or two about the incident (again focusing on the 1% toxic comments) to cement the victim narrative.

Make of it what you will.

I was kind of disgusted when I read the replies in that thread. Twitter has become such an echo chamber. Her tweet makes the team seem completely out of touch with the community. They choose to deflect any real criticism or suggestions by calling out the vast, vast minority that resorts to personal attacks. I also feel like they're unable to differentiate between criticism of the team and criticism of them as individuals. It's entirely reasonable to be negative about them as a team, but no one should of course resort to calling out the individuals.

I would say that the event was a completely failure and it's almost shameful to make people go there if they had nothing to show. Don't get me wrong, the content sounds great and I'm looking forward to playing it, but if you're going to announce and hype an event for a month, invite people to physically be there, hire a MC, have a long countdown and giveaways to create even more hype and then all you have to show for it is less than 30 minutes of talk, no Q&A, no real content to show and half of the talk is about lore then something really went wrong during planning. The big event made as believe that this would be something out of the ordinary, that the next season would be more than just a regular season, that Arenanet had finally decided to open up and talk about their plans with us, were trying to create a bigger community. Instead we get something that would have be better in a blog post.I don't think anyone was disappointed with the content that was shown - it was what we all expected after all - rather how little was shown.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@TheBravery.9615 said:

@Glider.5792 said:

@"GreyFox.8046" said:

Why are they focusing on the "toxicity"

In their eyes, every form of criticism is "spreading toxicity".

This is taken out of context. We don't know (and will never know, now) what was posted that required moderation. Also, Gaile's comments like these were typically targeting the entire thread and not just one particular post or poster. Again, without knowing what came before this example is out of context.Yeah, this. I can almost guarantee you the comment he got scolded for was at

best

extremely hostile. They don't do that just for saying "I don't like thing". It's also probably

very

old, if it's complaining about ascended gear.

Anet is fine with criticism if you're not actively hostile about it, but these days on most of the internet there's no difference between the two any more.

[Ensign.2189]

They are focused on the toxicity because they are human beings having a perfectly reasonable reaction to a wave of bad press that is hard not to take personally. It is really hard to read critical feedback, and the toxic comment mixed in there with it sets people over the edge.

We can talk professionality, blah blah, but this is all really emotional for everyone involved and we can let people be people.

They've been rebounding from a huge morale blow. That they have been able to stay on track, and even accomplish developing additional features above and beyond that, must feel like a huge win, and is something they are proud of. Their big announce probably felt like a victory cheer for their resiliency. That it was a huge flop was likely both surprising and demoralizing.

[Tiviana.2650]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@TheBravery.9615 said:

@Glider.5792 said:

@"GreyFox.8046" said:

Why are they focusing on the "toxicity"

In their eyes, every form of criticism is "spreading toxicity".

This is taken out of context. We don't know (and will never know, now) what was posted that required moderation. Also, Gaile's comments like these were typically targeting the entire thread and not just one particular post or poster. Again, without knowing what came before this example is out of context.

Not really look at that last line it makes the point. Any criticism keep it to yourself, so even if there are legit complaints dont talk about it, we want everyone to think everything is fine. You cant run a business in an echo chamber.

[Donari.5237]

That Gaile quote has to be from 2013, maybe early 2014 at the latest, when ascended armor was new. Maybe even as old as 2012 when the first ascended items showed up. Besides being out of context as others have stated, it is from long enough ago that forum standards have changed. Certainly negative comments proliferate and remain on the forums, so long as they state a dislike about game issues rather than form an attack on devs or fellow players.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@"GreyFox.8046" said:Alright I've been lurking on Reddit and the forums and I've noticed current and former developers talk about the aftermath of this event. I have but 1 question:Why are they focusing on the "toxicity" and not addressing the actual fair criticism or praise for the event by answering the questions, which if answered even vaguely, would start to repair this damage. Like I keep advocating for the team needing better communication, we have successful free to play games out there who always nail the communication and marketing, please it's not wrong to take note of them, no one will bat an eye. I say all this as someone who is passionate. The fixes to all of this backlash which would've been EASILY avoided if you just took a step back and actually saw the bigger picture to this community.We are players in a world YOU made, we are forever grateful, and we are not out here in a secret cult out to get the developers, we want to hear from you, get to know you better, show us the passion you have outside of the game.So basically my point is, we need to hear more from the developers. I understand theirs "broken promises" that can occur if you started announcing stuff left and right, but sometimes simple milestones, little maps of whats to come or hope to achieve will sit better with the players because as we continue to play, we will have in the back of our minds the thought that "New content is coming" constantly, instead of "I wonder if we will get something soon other than a gemstore item".

Thank you for the world you provide us with, and I hope to see more of it in the coming months, and years of course,

A world that would be empty without players.

You see, I am already in a world that they didn't create.

I dont remember paying anyone to get in this world niether.

This game world is more like a theme park, and the ticket was buying the game.

It is a business and they should be grateful to us.

If people are not satisfied, they will voice their opinion.

Just because it appears negative instead of praise doesn't mean it is toxic.

There may be some truth and justification to the dissatisfaction.

[ScyeRynn.4218]

It's very simple. This is GW 2's PR forum. Only post here if you want to congratulate Anet on something or say positive things. If you actually want to talk about the game for real, go on Reddit. That's why the Devs are over there instead of here all the time. If you want Devs to respond here, it's only in a formal, pre-planned, announced Dev chat session where they only chat for a couple hours, mostly with the same inauthentic, peppy perky fluff, forced/unfunny humor, and time-wasting filler. The same that's in all their Guild Chat/"Play with the devs" videos and any interview they do.

[aspirine.6852]

lol twitter, the internets toilet wall. Who takes that seriously anyway.

[Ashen.2907]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@TheBravery.9615 said:

@Glider.5792 said:

@"GreyFox.8046" said:

Why are they focusing on the "toxicity"

In their eyes, every form of criticism is "spreading toxicity".

This is taken out of context. We don't know (and will never know, now) what was posted that required moderation. Also, Gaile's comments like these were typically targeting the entire thread and not just one particular post or poster. Again, without knowing what came before this example is out of context.

More likely photoshopped than out of context.

[Dami.5046]

The one difference is people who love the game are passionate and feel let down. I am fed up with never getting Cantha- even the trolls who come down on me saying they don't want it. I am passionate about that part of the old game. I don't care. If i had to post every ffking day to get them to change their mind I would.Then there are the trolls and flamers.How many are mad because they know Anet can do better and how many are just flaming because they think it's fun to see a game being destroyed, even one they don't play?Because the issue is, this forum never sees that difference. We are all here to flame.

[PirateSpice.8735]

@"RyuDragnier.9476" said:The criticism of "you overhyped this" is something we can all agree on...No, it isn't. ArenaNet didn't overhype this. The community did. Anet told us exactly what to expect: an announcement about Living World. What was the main thrust of the discussion about? Living World. Story. The plans for how LW content was shaking up. All of the "hype" about all the things we should have been expecting to hear came from speculation here on the forums and reddit, not from Anet. So even the calm, reasoned criticisms are built on a toxic misrepresentation of reality. If people just want to be disappointed because they hoped for more, that's fine. Sure, I hoped for more, too. But they don't get to say that Anet overhyped anything or promised more than they gave. They gave more than they promised.