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The sustain of Holosmith is nuts....it's just broken


Arheundel.6451

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It's not the damage that I care, it's pointless to nerfing their dmg......their sustain is just bonker and for no healing power investment, that's what I consider absolutely unreal...how can a dev let a class heal so much while investing not even a single point in healing power? How can a holosmtih with a demolisher amulet heals for far more than a mender tempest ?

One spec supposed to be a bruiser...the other a support spec...why this design decisions? just why?

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holo is a complete broken class, they have infinite all boons, heal to full life in 2s, they can go invisible, they can aoe atk and hit more than a thief full zerk, they can miss you and you still get hit because of the big area atks, they can burn, they can tank you like a guardian, they can go invunerable, maybe the devs should give them clones since holo is a enginner and should have a tech to make clonesholo play-> jump at your team matehe get knocked downdie in one comboyou are 1000 km away and get hityou get knocked downyou burn and dieyour other team mate arrivesholo -> goes invisibleheal for full lifenow goes invunerableall his skills was up againrise and repeat

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@Ryan.9387 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:How can a holosmtih with a
demolisher amulet
heals for far more than a
mender tempest
?

They don't.

Interrupt their heal. Interrupt their combo finishers in their water field if you miss the intterrupt on their heal.

Easier said than done considering you can expect a holosmith to both be covered by Stability a majority of the time and/or do it while quickness boosted, or while dropping a quickness boosted Toss Elixir S, then doing it.

But seriously, I've done the math. Healing Turret is heads and shoulders above almost every healing outside of extremely situational healing skills like Herald's Infuse Light and Warrior's Defensive Stance even before they start comboing into the field with other skills.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:It's not just holo,weaver's need a sustain nerf as well a good player on either has broken sustain capabilities

Holo has insane sustain while being able to murder you easily weavers do not unless they’re menders (maybe celestial)...at which case they can’t really kill you unless you’re way worse then them they can just waste your time

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Their sustain is beyond average for what would be called a duelist, it's their damage that's the biggest problem. Anet nerfed their first autostrike for whatever reason but didn't change anything else which as you would guessed, made no difference.

Their cleave is beyond broken and pretty much overshadow everything else, even Reaper Shroud which functions similarly when you compare both.

Made this old video while ago just to show how stupid it is and should be nerfed to at least match Tool Kit from Core Engineer because it makes it all irrelevant. It's a better melee set that doesn't take an utility slot. Bonkers.

If it wasn't to melt anything in 3 auto attack cycle, maybe you'd see how little sustain they have other than stability that can be avoided. Warrior Axe cleave does sort of have a comparable size of damage but Warrior's don't have as many options as Engineers do. Let alone Full Counter which is just an unblockable daze evade to setup anything while the range still require to hug someone. If they are to nerf holosmith though, people will probably complain about Spellbreaker dominance next, but it has yet to be this bad. Warrior's don't have cleanses as effectively as Holosmiths or Stability, even if you count Full Counter which is more than easy to avoid and doesn't let you freely cleave someone after.

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If you fight an engi of the same skill level as you, the engi should win the matchup currently everytime. Its the same thing for mesmers with their invul. In the current meta, it basically pays to just not even bother trying to 1v1 either of these classes. Everything else is rather decently balanced aside from these 2 builds, though there are still a few small problems with this meta. Fixing these two classes would do wonders for the balance of pvp imo. There is no reason that either profession should have that kind of near 1 shot potential comboed with the best sustain in the game.

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@Weasel.9684 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:It's not just holo,weaver's need a sustain nerf as well a good player on either has broken sustain capabilities

Holo has insane sustain while being able to murder you easily weavers do not unless they’re menders (maybe celestial)...at which case they can’t really kill you unless you’re way worse then them they can just waste your time

Hopefully the Dev's know this as well. Weavers have to actually build for their sustain. Healing power is a must, plus vitality.

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@"Shao.7236" said:! > Their sustain is beyond average for what would be called a duelist, it's their damage that's the biggest problem. Anet nerfed their first autostrike for whatever reason but didn't change anything else which as you would guessed, made no difference.! >! > Their cleave is beyond broken and pretty much overshadow everything else, even Reaper Shroud which functions similarly when you compare both.! >! > Made this old video while ago just to show how stupid it is and should be nerfed to at least match Tool Kit from Core Engineer because it makes it all irrelevant. It's a better melee set that doesn't take an utility slot. Bonkers.! >! >

! >! > If it wasn't to melt anything in 3 auto attack cycle, maybe you'd see how little sustain they have other than stability that can be avoided. Warrior Axe cleave does sort of have a comparable size of damage but Warrior's don't have as many options as Engineers do. Let alone Full Counter which is just an unblockable daze evade to setup anything while the range still require to hug someone. If they are to nerf holosmith though, people will probably complain about Spellbreaker dominance next, but it has yet to be this bad. Warrior's don't have cleanses as effectively as Holosmiths or Stability, even if you count Full Counter which is more than easy to avoid and doesn't let you freely cleave someone after.!Reapers get locked out of their utilities and can not be healed while in shroud. Holos tho keep all of their kit while having stupid dmg plus a shit ton of ccs to choose from, oh and let's not forget the easy access to stab the one thing necros manage to get once in a life time.

Honestly holosmith is just a reaper on steroids, as a rev and necro main, it's not remotely fun to see my mechanics taken and improved into another class while I'm struggling to stay alive blowing all of my kit in comparison to holo's kit...

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I would go after heat therapy https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heat_Therapy. 65 health per heat unit loss doesn't seem like a lot but all they have to do is leave forge for 3 seconds and this trait is healing at 325 per second which is only slightly less than healing signet ticks, stay out of forge for another 5 seconds and that number is doubled, then have nearly 1000 healing per dodge roll with vent exhaust (build has basically perma vigor) it's kinda crazy. Best part about hitting this trait in particular is it doesn't affect core engi or scrapper.

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@MyPuppy.8970 said:You just need to dodge all their skills and interrupt all their heals and avoid all their ccs then gg.

@Vallenous.2179 said:If you fight an engi of the same skill level as you, the engi should win the matchup currently everytime. Its the same thing for mesmers with their invul. In the current meta, it basically pays to just not even bother trying to 1v1 either of these classes. Everything else is rather decently balanced aside from these 2 builds, though there are still a few small problems with this meta. Fixing these two classes would do wonders for the balance of pvp imo. There is no reason that either profession should have that kind of near 1 shot potential comboed with the best sustain in the game.

@rwolf.9571 said:Had a afk Holo on point once. Had my GS glass burst mes auto on him. Instant barrier for days. As if I was tickling him with a feather.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Sovari.7246 said:The escapist part of holo is really annoying we can have 3 people targeting it and it still manages to escape even mid tier skill level Holo's manage to outperform in this class

and the only way to catch holo is with another holo to reveal them, feelsweirdman

@"praqtos.9035" said:I wonder if any amount of "nerf braindead holo" threads will have any effect.After layoffs it was left without attention.Pretty braindead spam spec with a high reward and low effort, its been settled its about PvE now. Either you play one or shut up->buy gems->play pve.

The hyperbole is real in this thread.

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@"ArthurDent.9538" said:I would go after heat therapy https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heat_Therapy. 65 health per heat unit loss doesn't seem like a lot but all they have to do is leave forge for 3 seconds and this trait is healing at 325 per second which is only slightly less than healing signet ticks, stay out of forge for another 5 seconds and that number is doubled, then have nearly 1000 healing per dodge roll with vent exhaust (build has basically perma vigor) it's kinda crazy. Best part about hitting this trait in particular is it doesn't affect core engi or scrapper.

Yeah several people including myself have agreed with this over the last year. Heat therapy and Photon Forge are the best targets to nerf Holo, instead of core.

It'll be interesting to see how Holo is received after -20% Corona Burst and -300 radius on Holo Shockwave.

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I dont know what everyone is complaining about, killing holos is easy. Let me break it down for you.

  1. First you need to reflect their rifle net/knockback, if you dont have reflect you need to dodge/block etc.
  2. Then they will do their rifle 5 leap or forge 2, both hit for a lot so you need to dodge that too. also they probably used their stab+quickness elixir so you cant cc them, you have to dodge.
  3. Next they will do their forge 3 which gives them more stab, so you need to dodge that too.
  4. After this comes their real burst with forge 5/4. This is a strong mid-ranged cc burst so its very important that you dodge this.
  5. At this point you have a very small opening to retaliate. The holo usually will kite away and use their block utility so you need to use your unblockable burst in order to damage them. If you dont have unblockable burst you need to wait out the 3s block duration, While avoiding their strong constant ranged damage.
  6. Now is the time to do some damage, assuming they havent stealthed, gone invuln, or kited away with forge 2.
  7. If you manage to get them below 50% hp, their passive barrier&protection will proc which means you probably cant kill them now, you need to wait for the barrier&protection to fade away.
  8. The holo probably has forge ready again, so you need to dodge their forge 3, 4, 5 and dodge/block their autos since you cant kite them.
  9. Assuming you have played nearly perfectly up until this point, this is your chance to go for the kill. You need to burst them from around 50% - 0% before they can react and use their invuln. If they manage to get it off, they will run away, heal to full using their turret, and reset the fight from step 1.

If you get cced at any time, you need to stunbreak immediately and use your other defensive cooldowns, otherwise you will be chain cced, or chased down and killed since you cant kite them. Also if they are running the elite elixir, you need to save your defensive cooldowns in case they get rampage, and if they are using prime light beam its a 1200 range unblockable cc that does a ton of damage, so you need to dodge that too.

Its really easy guys.

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