Rework collections that include dead content

[Bossun.2046]

I have been trying not for 3 days in a row, while spending most of my time on Draconis Mons trying to get a Ignis kill for both, my Aurora collection and a henge away from home to no avail... for some reason, every time that both Ignis and Aestus show up all 5 people in the map go for the ladder. yeah i am mad

[Poormany.4507]

Strongly agree with this one - I think LW collection events should be scaled down to require only 2 or 3 players at most to succeed (not counting metas or larger scale events) after several months unless some other way is found to bring people back to these dead LW maps, as much fewer players are available to help with those events months (or even weeks) after the episode. The Kourna cannon event in particular comes to mind to me. Took hours just to get an event to show up, then needed at least 3-4+ players to actually get it to succeed when there's usually only 2 or maybe 3 players max at the time who were available on the map to do the event (took me several days to do what should have been an hour at most collection items). I can already barely find anyone to help with most of the LWS4 (can't imagine doing LWS3) map event achievs/collections (LFG and tags don't help and if so require at least 3+ hours of waiting).

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

I wish they add the Living Story maps to the regular dailies as another choice to do events and rotate sequentially among all the LS maps. Since it would be an addition people who don’t have that map can still do the regular dailies. This would help revitalize these old maps that only have a few people on them.

[mindcircus.1506]

Or you know, they could not make design decisions based on data gathered during one of their most popular festivals.

[knite.1542]

I think they should:

1. Get rid of daily achievements from each LS map
2. Make it so that only (maybe) 2 or 3 maps get daily achievements each day
3. Significantly increase the rewards for those dailies so that players are enticed to do them.

Just my opinion at least. This would probably also help out people that are stuck on collections as well.

[Bossun.2046]

@mindcircus.1506 said:Or you know, they could not make design decisions based on data gathered during one of their most popular festivals.

so all that should be inaccessible content until there is nothing else to do in the game?

[Poormany.4507]

@mindcircus.1506 said:Or you know, they could not make design decisions based on data gathered during one of their most popular festivals.

This has been an issue because LW maps die after a few weeks or months and players doing achievements and collections after that have difficulties completing required events because of the low player population in those maps. Little to do with festivals (although they do worsen the problem) and the issue persists outside of festival times.

[Gop.8713]

To be fair you can't do the collection from the live content either, so clearly not a concern . . .

[Ayrilana.1396]

I’ve done those dragons with about five players before. If you tag up, players are more likely to follow you to the one that you need. You can also say in map chat which one to do first but that can sometimes be hit or miss.

[Mickey Chi.3178]

I totally agree, was a player from beta version, that time the game was full of people! I stopped playing and then came back to buy the expansions 7 years after and find most the maps lacking players, I am 2 month in the game and this has been problematic... Arena net need to do some advertisement or tune down the difficulty of this game.

[Abyssisis.3971]

Same, I’m also trying for aurora. I posted on map chat about Ignis being up, and not once response, I see people on the map, guessing they are bots farming trash mobs... I’d solo him if there wasn’t the 15 minute timer tho...

[Drascious.5714]

@Bossun.2046 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Or you know, they could

not

make design decisions based on data gathered during one of their most popular festivals.

so all that should be inaccessible content until there is nothing else to do in the game?

I think you and everyone else complaining is missing the point. Halloween is notoriously popular in guild wars 2 to the point that people drop a lot of their regular farms and aims to grind the lab.

Once the festival is over a lot of other stuff will pick up again I guarantee it.

I’ve actually seem these sane complaints during other festivals too year on year but somehow people still don’t get it.

[Rasimir.6239]

@Abyssisis.3971 said:Same, I’m also trying for aurora. I posted on map chat about Ignis being up, and not once response, I see people on the map, guessing they are bots farming trash mobs... I’d solo him if there wasn’t the 15 minute timer tho...Try posting a squad (10-man raid squad is enough if you don't have a commander tag) in lfg well ahead of the fight (you can judge when it's due by checking the status of the pre event) to attract more people.

[Taygus.4571]

@"Bossun.2046" said:I have been trying not for 3 days in a row, while spending most of my time on Draconis Mons trying to get a Ignis kill for both, my Aurora collection and a henge away from home to no avail... for some reason, every time that both Ignis and Aestus show up all 5 people in the map go for the ladder. yeah i am mad

I got Ignis juat a few weeks ago. Call in map chat "Lets go Ignis" , multiple times in map chat before they spawn.

It also helps to habe a tag and start doing the pre events with your tag, reminding people, you're going Ignis after.

Also, wait til after halloween.

But i also don't disagree with you.I think Gw2 could do with adding monthlies (or make or weeklies) back in, that would rotate between LW maps/expansion maps. I think it would help.

[Teratus.2859]

This is a big problem with the living world maps and the idea of adding new content to them in newer releases.

We can't have story taking us back to Mons because some players might not have that map unlocked in season 3 etc..

This is something that has personally annoyed me for many many years and why I will never accept the living world as a 'replacement' for expansions.Once a living world map gets stale it's going to have issues like this all the time because once you've done everything on said maps there is almost never a reason to go back to them.. and that is a big problem.

[Randulf.7614]

@Psykewne.3025 said:

@Bossun.2046 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Or you know, they could

not

make design decisions based on data gathered during one of their most popular festivals.

so all that should be inaccessible content until there is nothing else to do in the game?

I think you and everyone else complaining is missing the point. Halloween is notoriously popular in guild wars 2 to the point that people drop a lot of their regular farms and aims to grind the lab.

Once the festival is over a lot of other stuff will pick up again I guarantee it.

I’ve actually seem these sane complaints during other festivals too year on year but somehow people still don’t get it.

I agree partly however every time these complaints arise it’s a case of “there’s a festival wait until after”, then it’s a boss week and the response is “ wait TIL after boss week”, then a new episode and the response is “wait until the new episode dies down”, then it’s another festival...

There’s always something to pull people away and saying something new is around is unfair when there’s is usually some activity. Players shouldn’t have to wait for an off season to complete content.

In sssence Anet need to be smarter with their scaling to ensure content can be done on LS maps when players are becoming so spread out.

[Dante.1508]

@Poormany.4507 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Or you know, they could

not

make design decisions based on data gathered during one of their most popular festivals.

This has been an issue because LW maps die after a few weeks or months and players doing achievements and collections after that have difficulties completing required events because of the low player population in those maps. Little to do with festivals (although they do worsen the problem) and the issue persists outside of festival times.

Thats why they should set the bar at solo play content and work it from there.. Team content dies and then so do the maps after a few months.

[starlinvf.1358]

@"Teratus.2859" said:This is a big problem with the living world maps and the idea of adding new content to them in newer releases.

We can't have story taking us back to Mons because some players might not have that map unlocked in season 3 etc..

This is something that has personally annoyed me for many many years and why I will never accept the living world as a 'replacement' for expansions.Once a living world map gets stale it's going to have issues like this all the time because once you've done everything on said maps there is almost never a reason to go back to them.. and that is a big problem.

Yet by that same behavior, populations in expansions drain out over time as well. Everyone has to get it through their heads that we're dealing with a basic finite resource problem. The same problem exists with all entertainment media, because theres only so much attention that can be grabbed.

HOT got around this problem by having a well scheduled Meta across a limited number of maps. This makes the routine extremely easy to flow from one map to the next, gaining or losing people at each transition. The Worldboss train works the same way, and both actively compete with each other for bodies. But people cried and cried about having to deal with large meta events, so LS3, POFm and LS4 maps scaled back their use to boss fights; seeing as bosses are one of the things often complained about and needed "avoiding" by solo players. And frankly, it worked. Casual players didn't need to do it, and could trudge around at their leisure.

The issue being raised is by Achievement Hunters. These are not casual players..... They want something specific, and are putting in the express effort to chase it. Which is why I don't buy into the excuse that them wanting to be Solo players is a compelling reason to try and "design out" the group requirement for GROUP EVENTS. All it takes is minor organization, a bit of knowledge, and many of these events are actually easier with 5-10 people due to scaling. But what truly irks me to no end is how these things are made to be enablers of social interaction, and that Solo players require major accommodation because they refuse to participate in a social space...... which is made astoundingly baffling by the incredibly low barrier for getting this player base to lend assistance. I've never seen a game this easy to PUG effectively; and a significant number of players will go out of their way to help without being asked. This means the key to all of this is Awareness. If awareness is low (like in a low pop map), building awareness is not that difficult by reaching out to the map chat, to city hubs like LA, and especially to one's guild. But that awareness has to be considered in both directions. If you're not contributing back to this system, then you're perpetuating the very problem you're complaining about.

With all that said, players have an internal conflict of interest when it comes to content. They always demand New and More at ever growing rates.... but they also refuse to let go of previous content, because they haven't milked out the maximum rewards from it yet. This demand is whats creating this paradox. Unsurprisingly, the original Living World format solves ALL of these problems, because only the current content matters at given time. Complaints about wanting to experience all past content is whats lead to their preservation-- while also demanding new content be bigger and exciting and act as sprawling epics, with new rewards that are objectively better then previous because otherwise its a waste of time, and those rewards should build on previous rewards, so we can feel Progress, and involve all the things so everything can feel rewarding and....... you can see the pattern here.

Once players get tired of places, the move on. Trying to make them come back just for the rewards has created this perpetual loop of swarming, exhaustion, and migration. Having less people around you is the price for not being part of that bandwagon at its current "hotness". The fact that a person is upset that they want the rewards, outside the popular cycle, and then citing Rewards as the solution to getting people to come back, poetically reinforces why using these comprehensive achievement/rewards as a motivator was a bad idea in the first place. ..... For us... not for Anet. This is giving Anet an easy solution to a complex problem, because we'll do anything for a shiny-- except make friends, apparently.

Above I pointed out how HOT got around this problem... but thats kind of a misrepresentation. All it really did was manage to be at the top of the stack for farming "Hotness". Istan replaced it for awhile, and then largely abandoned after the rewards were nerfed. That really does say a lot about the internal mindset of this player base, despite what they constantly state outward about the need for new content. Everyone LOVED the POF maps, with how open they are, and no filthy map metas getting in the way of things, and how they're not stuck to a scheduled, and the rewards feel great..... and now they are mostly empty outside of a Bounty, Achievement, or HP trains, done by people explicitly out to help players needing to get things done faster. Its almost as if participating and contributing to the social space is productive! But you Solo players stay classly, and do you.

If it isn't clear yet...... there is NO SOLUTION to this problem, because we're gonna just keep going in circles until Gamers at large get over themselves about reward systems. Until that happens, we're stuck just juggling 5 issues and choosing which 4 we're willing to deal with at any given time. That or stick to single player games that make you the center of the universe, and never have to socially interact with anything else.

[kharmin.7683]

Maybe this is by design? Maybe they want us to be in guilds (thus the name of the game?) where guild mates could help with goals like these?

[Ayrilana.1396]

@starlinvf.1358 said:The issue being raised is by Achievement Hunters.

In the case of this thread, this appears to be specific to doing the collection for Aurora. It’s fairly evident by the OP’s post. While AP hunters would go for these collections not all that go for them are AP hunters.

[Rasimir.6239]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:The issue being raised is by Achievement Hunters.

In the case of this thread, this appears to be specific to doing the collection for Aurora. It’s fairly evident by the OP’s post. While AP hunters would go for these collections not all that go for them are AP hunters.On the other hand, legendary trinkets don't exactly look like they are designed to be easily completed by casual solo-players, so the post still pretty much fits (you just have to replace ap hunters with leggy-hunters).

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:The issue being raised is by Achievement Hunters.

In the case of this thread, this appears to be specific to doing the collection for Aurora. It’s fairly evident by the OP’s post. While AP hunters would go for these collections not all that go for them are AP hunters.On the other hand, legendary trinkets don't exactly look like they are designed to be easily completed by casual solo-players, so the post still pretty much fits (you just have to replace ap hunters with leggy-hunters).

Depends on how you define “easy” as well as “casual”. You can also apply that reasoning to meta event hunters, WB hunters, etc.

[Mewcifer.5198]

This is where having guilds is a nice thing. The event can be done with 5-10 people. Instead of relying on who happened to be on map at the time, you can ask in guild chat and get people together for it, maybe even plan ahead of time with people to get together and do it on a certain day.

[Teratus.2859]

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:This is a big problem with the living world maps and the idea of adding new content to them in newer releases.

We can't have story taking us back to Mons because some players might not have that map unlocked in season 3 etc..

This is something that has personally annoyed me for many many years and why I will never accept the living world as a 'replacement' for expansions.Once a living world map gets stale it's going to have issues like this all the time because once you've done everything on said maps there is almost never a reason to go back to them.. and that is a big problem.

Yet by that same behavior, populations in expansions drain out over time as well. Everyone has to get it through their heads that we're dealing with a basic finite resource problem. The same problem exists with all entertainment media, because theres only so much attention that can be grabbed.

True, it does.However what expansions have that living world does not is a guarantee of foundation to build on.Anet know that by tying living world 3 into HoT via making HoT essental to play it that they can go back to HoT at any time and reuse locations, maps, events etc whenever they see fit, hence the constant use of the Dragonlab for example.

The living world maps don't have that luxury and as such they often end up becoming a one time deal and then we move on and never come back again.The problem is that we could easily come back if Anet were willing to not restrict themselves with this notion that some players may not have the content unlocked.. or an even better solution, don't lock maps behind specific living world releases and allow any story instance from any release that takes you to that location to unlock that map.

That would certainly be better than the realization that places like Thunderhead Keep, Bloodstone Fen and Dragonfall will never have new story content in them.

That said though they may just be going this road with Icebroodsaga as we know that there will not be a new map each patch so for the first real time since season 2 we'll be getting new maps that will be reused, have new story content added to it and potentialy be expanded much like Drytop was or something.That does excite me personally and get me looking forward to upcoming releases.

[Bossun.2046]

@Psykewne.3025 said:

@Bossun.2046 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Or you know, they could

not

make design decisions based on data gathered during one of their most popular festivals.

so all that should be inaccessible content until there is nothing else to do in the game?

I think you and everyone else complaining is missing the point. Halloween is notoriously popular in guild wars 2 to the point that people drop a lot of their regular farms and aims to grind the lab.

Once the festival is over a lot of other stuff will pick up again I guarantee it.

I’ve actually seem these sane complaints during other festivals too year on year but somehow people still don’t get it.

talk about missing the point