Will condi damage also be lowered?

[Anput.4620]

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:The answer is yes it is being lowered, bit less than power overall though. I will be very surprised if the majority of people play condi next patch as that's never happened before. Especially considering how dominant power is (ignoring the extreme outlier that is condi mirage)

Tbh condi mirage does as much damage as power builds atm in gear with both toughness and vitality on it.I even specifically mention condi mirage as an outlier. It is at the moment really broken, I expect it will still be very strong next patch but losing 50 endurance is a big deal so we will see.

At the moment? Condi Mirage has been in this state since it got released almost 1,5 years ago lol.

[Arheundel.6451]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Gwaihir.1745 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

If your 30 man cant clear a burn I've got bad news for you.

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

Lol. Even An 8k burntick needs one cleanse

Oh boy, you both have never played this build, the dmg is pretty much instant, depending on how many ppl you have around you.Especially bad if your caster are using projectiles, a reflect can nuke your frontline down before they even see the burn on them.

The trait permeating wrath lets every third hit they do triggers a flame explosion that puts burning onto a group of ppl, EVERY reflected projectile counts as their own attack. Reflect has no max amount of reflects.They have several other condis that trigger with the burn to cover it.

Here are 2 video that show what that build is able to do, and i played it myself and its just disgusting, especially in chokes, alone 4 uses of sword of justice will trigger burn soooo many times.

First risen howls video with full explanation with every trait working together explained.

Second figrin. The first clip of him engaging like 5 ppl says enough.

Sorry, but imo a single class should never be able to burst down 5 ppl almost instantly, even when they dont expect it. No excuses.

Did you try to even play that build?...it has close to 0 sustain, a pure meme build in the wrong hands....and on other hands, the "worker" warrior build is 4x times easier to play, 4x the sustain and 4x the output of lootbags it can get thx to healing....

GW2 players will never stop whining...for god's sake, people should go play PvE or skyrim with god cheat if dieing hurts their feelings so hard

[lunaeclipse.6843]

Condi damage is also being lowered in many areas, in the form of less stacks per application but at longer durations.

[RedShark.9548]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Gwaihir.1745 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

If your 30 man cant clear a burn I've got bad news for you.

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

Lol. Even An 8k burntick needs one cleanse

Oh boy, you both have never played this build, the dmg is pretty much instant, depending on how many ppl you have around you.Especially bad if your caster are using projectiles, a reflect can nuke your frontline down before they even see the burn on them.

The trait permeating wrath lets every third hit they do triggers a flame explosion that puts burning onto a group of ppl, EVERY reflected projectile counts as their own attack. Reflect has no max amount of reflects.They have several other condis that trigger with the burn to cover it.

Here are 2 video that show what that build is able to do, and i played it myself and its just disgusting, especially in chokes, alone 4 uses of sword of justice will trigger burn soooo many times.

First risen howls video with full explanation with every trait working together explained.

Second figrin. The first clip of him engaging like 5 ppl says enough.

Sorry, but imo a single class should never be able to burst down 5 ppl almost instantly, even when they dont expect it. No excuses.

Did you try to even play that build?...it has close to 0 sustain, a pure meme build in the wrong hands....and on other hands, the "worker" warrior build is 4x times easier to play, 4x the sustain and 4x the output of lootbags it can get thx to healing....

GW2 players will never stop whining...for god's sake, people should go play PvE or skyrim with god cheat if dieing hurts their feelings so hard

Did you try to read what i wrote? I said that i did play it. And outdamaging full dmg weaver and hammer revs consistently is not a meme to me. Sorry. Its not hard to play, you throw your aoes into them and watch the world burn. Takes 0 skill, only positioning knowledge, which every class needs in a zerg. Every other damage spec has close to 0 sustain aswell, nothing new for damage dealers.

Lol, worker still has to hit enemies, even with healing, to get kill participation you have to hit them.Warrior is full melee, that guard spec has plenty of range, so no, you dont loot more with warrior.

"dO yOu eVeN pLaY wVw?"

Yikes. Im pretty sure ive seen you "whine" in other threads aswell. Great arguments btw.

Edit: checked your post history, yes i remembered correctly, you also often make post about things you think are too strong. Should i now go into all those and call you out for "whining"? Nah, because your opinion is right, whatever you say is too strong and should be nerfed, while others are just whining.

[SloRules.3560]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Gwaihir.1745 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

If your 30 man cant clear a burn I've got bad news for you.

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

Lol. Even An 8k burntick needs one cleanse

Oh boy, you both have never played this build, the dmg is pretty much instant, depending on how many ppl you have around you.Especially bad if your caster are using projectiles, a reflect can nuke your frontline down before they even see the burn on them.

The trait permeating wrath lets every third hit they do triggers a flame explosion that puts burning onto a group of ppl, EVERY reflected projectile counts as their own attack. Reflect has no max amount of reflects.They have several other condis that trigger with the burn to cover it.

Here are 2 video that show what that build is able to do, and i played it myself and its just disgusting, especially in chokes, alone 4 uses of sword of justice will trigger burn soooo many times.

First risen howls video with full explanation with every trait working together explained.

Second figrin. The first clip of him engaging like 5 ppl says enough.

Sorry, but imo a single class should never be able to burst down 5 ppl almost instantly, even when they dont expect it. No excuses.

Did you try to even play that build?...it has close to 0 sustain, a pure meme build in the wrong hands....and on other hands, the "worker" warrior build is 4x times easier to play, 4x the sustain and 4x the output of lootbags it can get thx to healing....

GW2 players will never stop whining...for god's sake, people should go play PvE or skyrim with god cheat if dieing hurts their feelings so hard

Did you try to read what i wrote? I said that i did play it. And outdamaging full dmg weaver and hammer revs consistently is not a meme to me. Sorry. Its not hard to play, you throw your aoes into them and watch the world burn. Takes 0 skill, only positioning knowledge, which every class needs in a zerg. Every other damage spec has close to 0 sustain aswell, nothing new for damage dealers.

Lol, worker still has to hit enemies, even with healing, to get kill participation you have to hit them.Warrior is full melee, that guard spec has plenty of range, so no, you dont loot more with warrior.

"dO yOu eVeN pLaY wVw?"

Yikes. Im pretty sure ive seen you "whine" in other threads aswell. Great arguments btw.

Edit: checked your post history, yes i remembered correctly, you also often make post about things you think are too strong. Should i now go into all those and call you out for "whining"? Nah, because your opinion is right, whatever you say is too strong and should be nerfed, while others are just whining.

What do you take from group for this to work?

[RedShark.9548]

@SloRules.3560 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Gwaihir.1745 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

If your 30 man cant clear a burn I've got bad news for you.

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

Lol. Even An 8k burntick needs one cleanse

Oh boy, you both have never played this build, the dmg is pretty much instant, depending on how many ppl you have around you.Especially bad if your caster are using projectiles, a reflect can nuke your frontline down before they even see the burn on them.

The trait permeating wrath lets every third hit they do triggers a flame explosion that puts burning onto a group of ppl, EVERY reflected projectile counts as their own attack. Reflect has no max amount of reflects.They have several other condis that trigger with the burn to cover it.

Here are 2 video that show what that build is able to do, and i played it myself and its just disgusting, especially in chokes, alone 4 uses of sword of justice will trigger burn soooo many times.

First risen howls video with full explanation with every trait working together explained.

Second figrin. The first clip of him engaging like 5 ppl says enough.

Sorry, but imo a single class should never be able to burst down 5 ppl almost instantly, even when they dont expect it. No excuses.

Did you try to even play that build?...it has close to 0 sustain, a pure meme build in the wrong hands....and on other hands, the "worker" warrior build is 4x times easier to play, 4x the sustain and 4x the output of lootbags it can get thx to healing....

GW2 players will never stop whining...for god's sake, people should go play PvE or skyrim with god cheat if dieing hurts their feelings so hard

Did you try to read what i wrote? I said that i did play it. And outdamaging full dmg weaver and hammer revs consistently is not a meme to me. Sorry. Its not hard to play, you throw your aoes into them and watch the world burn. Takes 0 skill, only positioning knowledge, which every class needs in a zerg. Every other damage spec has close to 0 sustain aswell, nothing new for damage dealers.

Lol, worker still has to hit enemies, even with healing, to get kill participation you have to hit them.Warrior is full melee, that guard spec has plenty of range, so no, you dont loot more with warrior.

"dO yOu eVeN pLaY wVw?"

Yikes. Im pretty sure ive seen you "whine" in other threads aswell. Great arguments btw.

Edit: checked your post history, yes i remembered correctly, you also often make post about things you think are too strong. Should i now go into all those and call you out for "whining"? Nah, because your opinion is right, whatever you say is too strong and should be nerfed, while others are just whining.

What do you take from group for this to work?

Just replace another damage dealer with it, like a staff weaver, or a hammer rev (revs boons are going to get nerfed anyways with the upcoming patch)

Honestly you wont have perfect groups in public zergs anyways, it doesnt rly matter what you take away for 2 or 3 of those burnguards. In a 50 man blob. Those 2 or 3 guards can change the whole fight alone.

Our commanders had to call out single burn DHs to be focused or to have ppl on the lookout for reflect walls and always cleanses rdy, because they are that devestating to a zerg.

[Tinnel.4369]

Condi mirage/thief are less than 10% of what I encounter in 30-40 hours a week. The amount of cleanse any one class can carry hasn't changed and all your other options for rendering them useless still exist as well, which means really nothing has changed except the burst you have like a 1% chance of actually hitting them with will be lower.

I think you're worried about nothing really.

Burn guards mostly fly under the radar still and are best at catching unprepareds off guard or melting siege. If they become prevalent they're easy enough to mitigate.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Tinnel.4369 said:Condi mirage/thief are less than 10% of what I encounter in 30-40 hours a week. The amount of cleanse any one class can carry hasn't changed and all your other options for rendering them useless still exist as well, which means really nothing has changed except the burst you have like a 1% chance of actually hitting them with will be lower.

I think you're worried about nothing really.

Burn guards mostly fly under the radar still and are best at catching unprepareds off guard or melting siege. If they become prevalent they're easy enough to mitigate.Same thing as in every WvW era.

Remember when the shatter mesmer was the be all end all burst devil, the one class that could macro-insta-kill people and everyone cried and cried and cried how it needed nerf?

You where lucky if you met one good mesmer in a week. The rest of the encounters was the same meta classes that run around today, just not on elites.

[Tinnel.4369]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Condi mirage/thief are less than 10% of what I encounter in 30-40 hours a week. The amount of cleanse any one class can carry hasn't changed and all your other options for rendering them useless still exist as well, which means really nothing has changed except the burst you have like a 1% chance of actually hitting them with will be lower.

I think you're worried about nothing really.

Burn guards mostly fly under the radar still and are best at catching unprepareds off guard or melting siege. If they become prevalent they're easy enough to mitigate.Same thing as in every WvW era.

Remember when the shatter mesmer was the be all end all burst devil, the one class that could macro-insta-kill people and everyone cried and cried and cried how it needed nerf?

You where lucky if you met one good mesmer in a week. The rest of the encounters was the same meta classes that run around today, just not on elites.

Or the two other times there were massive paradigm shifts by mass dropping elites and new armor stats and runes....life went on.

We all know ANet isn't perfect, but frankly build wars is one of the only things that keeps me playing. Bring on the chaos, balance is a myth anyhow!

[KrHome.1920]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.If your zerg can't cleanse one unique condition stack within 2 seconds something is going pretty wrong there. I haven't died to a burn guard for years - neither in the zerg, nor in smallscale.

Besides that: If condi becomes meta then the meta will also shift to more cleanses and resistance and the metabuilds will have more health (trailblazer, dire, carrion...).

[Aeolus.3615]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.If your zerg can't cleanse one unique condition stack within 2 seconds something is going pretty wrong there. I haven't died to a burn guard for years - neither in the zerg, nor in smallscale.

Besides that: If condi becomes meta then the meta will also shift to more cleanses and resistance and the metabuilds will have more health (trailblazer, dire, carrion...).

Just the amount of light fields we have some have heal... ._.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.If your zerg can't cleanse one unique condition stack within 2 seconds something is going pretty wrong there. I haven't died to a burn guard for years - neither in the zerg, nor in smallscale.

Besides that: If condi becomes meta then the meta will also shift to more cleanses and resistance and the metabuilds will have more health (trailblazer, dire, carrion...).

Just the amount of light fields we have some have heal... ._.

Most don’t know what their fields do, nor how to use a finisher anymore.

To get a heal field today that isn’t corrupted by either a fire field or a light field would be a work of God.

[duillyn.2697]

on a yolo mesmer i can reach about 15-25k dps in a 2s burst.on a full glass zerg warrior with ax OH in a good fight (as in zergs actually clash and stay engaged in melee range) i can reach 7-8k dps over 60s+.a dh can sustain15-30k dps for 60s+ depending on the enemy group size. just to emphasis those numbers again, 30,000 damage per second for a minute.

its broken, no two ways about it.

[lodjur.1284]

@Anput.4620 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:The answer is yes it is being lowered, bit less than power overall though. I will be very surprised if the majority of people play condi next patch as that's never happened before. Especially considering how dominant power is (ignoring the extreme outlier that is condi mirage)

Tbh condi mirage does as much damage as power builds atm in gear with both toughness and vitality on it.I even specifically mention condi mirage as an outlier. It is at the moment really broken, I expect it will still be very strong next patch but losing 50 endurance is a big deal so we will see.

At the moment? Condi Mirage has been in this state since it got released almost 1,5 years ago lol.

I am not trying to argue about condi mirage here, it is and has been broken since release. Obviously if it's currently broken that means it used to be broken since it's gotten nothing but nerfs, all with good reason.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Burn guard does work and I've already transitioning to it. Bought those grieving inscriptions! (they're very cheap atm)

But if you die to it you got outplayed (excluding situations where people hide behind a wall and jump down to burst). If you let something with like 1 gap closer get to 900 range to you and also stand still, then you have no excuses.

Oh and btw, note that a lot of the damage comes from wall of reflect. That can't actually do damage to you unless you mindlessly shoot into it. (well, this is also why nobody likes having pew pews follow them in zergs).

For example, in a lot of Risen How'ls videos:

It only takes a single mistake to go to 50% HP. and it is not like you can stealth or leap to the other side of the map if you fail. But the secret here is that he can actually play as opposed to being carried by a build. He can dodge, position, and aim. I know that's a foreign concept to many, but hey.

Also have most of you considered that the meta currently favor power, so most "meta' builds are going to focus on mitigating power damage? Naturally there's a gap to exploit. If the meta shits over to condi, I wonder what will happen?!

Oh and ofc we have to nerf condis.

[Virdo.1540]

tbh at the moment(before the patch) condi and power damage are equally high.But they have different way to negate/lower the damage. While Protection lower the power damage, the condi dmg gets lower through Resistance and Cleansing.(Dodges, Immunites & traited dmg reduction counts for both.)Which makes Condis more counterable than power. So a power-dmg reduction will put them on the same level in wvw/pvp.

Especially if many skills arent stupidly overpowered anymore, more slots can be filled with other skills like cleansing.

[Obtena.7952]

OP was probably beaten in a fight by a Condi Mirage ... so obviously it needs a nerf right? It's the 'new thing' to complain about since the 'downstate' debacle.

If Condi mirage was such an amazing thing, they would be way more prevalent.

[Yasai.3549]

@Obtena.7952 said:

If Condi mirage was such an amazing thing, they would be way more prevalent.

I guess yu missed that they straight up removed an entire Trait, and it was solely attributed to Condi Mirage.

Rip CI

[XenesisII.1540]

Maybe Permeating Wrath should reduce guardian endurance by 50...huehuehue

[Anput.4620]

@"Obtena.7952" said:OP was probably beaten in a fight by a Condi Mirage ... so obviously it needs a nerf right? It's the 'new thing' to complain about since the 'downstate' debacle.

If Condi mirage was such an amazing thing, they would be way more prevalent.

It's literally one of, if not the best roaming spec, howeso not more prevalent? Whenever i go to the duel area and someone plays as mesmer and poeple see its condi mirage i can see comments like "condi mirage :c".

Top tier meta build with trailblazers, can't see a ranger/thief/warrior be better and thief is the only one with a decent matchup vs it.

My friend new at the game plays it, he misses like 3 trinkets and still beats experienced players just by crapping out more condi's and spamming stuff while only having some trailblazer pieces.

[Obtena.7952]

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:OP was probably beaten in a fight by a Condi Mirage ... so obviously it needs a nerf right? It's the 'new thing' to complain about since the 'downstate' debacle.

If Condi mirage was such an amazing thing, they would be way more prevalent.

It's literally one of, if not the best roaming spec, howeso not more prevalent? Whenever i go to the duel area and someone plays as mesmer and poeple see its condi mirage i can see comments like "condi mirage :c".

So your problem is that THIS is the best roaming spec? That's certainly not a reason to change it. Something is always going to be the best; that's just a consequence of how the game works.

Top tier meta build with trailblazers, can't see a ranger/thief/warrior be better and thief is the only one with a decent matchup vs it.

OK ... that doesn't mean much. Like all the sudden there is a best spec in PVP that needs a nerf? Um, no, there has ALWAYS been some best spec. You just want THIS particular one nerfed because you don't like to lose against it. You've shown your desire to nerf anything you have problems dealing with. You even demonstrate it with videos.

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

If Condi mirage was such an amazing thing, they would be way more prevalent.

I guess yu missed that they straight up removed an entire Trait, and it was solely attributed to Condi Mirage.

Rip CI

I don't think I missed anything. What I said here is true. I can't be more clear. If a whole trait was just nerfed and that takes them down a notch, then there isn't a problem here to begin with.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.If your zerg can't cleanse one unique condition stack within 2 seconds something is going pretty wrong there. I haven't died to a burn guard for years - neither in the zerg, nor in smallscale.

Besides that: If condi becomes meta then the meta will also shift to more cleanses and resistance and the metabuilds will have more health (trailblazer, dire, carrion...).

Just the amount of light fields we have some have heal... ._.

Most don’t know what their fields do, nor how to use a finisher anymore.

To get a heal field today that isn’t corrupted by either a fire field or a light field would be a work of God.

Next meta get spirit weapon bow in your fb, tons of heal ticks and it’s light field, it’s quite strong when spikes by a larger number of fbs, people will get healed and condi cleansed, it’s a ammo system, donut kinda works like mantras but as if 3casts were the same, has no cd between ammo, heals that can only be denied by poison.. but it’s also a light field.

It’s more useful than most player think, minor issue is need to be spiked in group call to become really decent, should be used with fb book 3 skill to counter aoe condi and scourges.

[L A T I O N.8923]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Gwaihir.1745 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

If your 30 man cant clear a burn I've got bad news for you.

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

Lol. Even An 8k burntick needs one cleanse

Oh boy, you both have never played this build, the dmg is pretty much instant, depending on how many ppl you have around you.Especially bad if your caster are using projectiles, a reflect can nuke your frontline down before they even see the burn on them.

The trait permeating wrath lets every third hit they do triggers a flame explosion that puts burning onto a group of ppl, EVERY reflected projectile counts as their own attack. Reflect has no max amount of reflects.They have several other condis that trigger with the burn to cover it.

Here are 2 video that show what that build is able to do, and i played it myself and its just disgusting, especially in chokes, alone 4 uses of sword of justice will trigger burn soooo many times.

First risen howls video with full explanation with every trait working together explained.

Second figrin. The first clip of him engaging like 5 ppl says enough.

Sorry, but imo a single class should never be able to burst down 5 ppl almost instantly, even when they dont expect it. No excuses.

Did you try to even play that build?...it has close to 0 sustain, a pure meme build in the wrong hands....and on other hands, the "worker" warrior build is 4x times easier to play, 4x the sustain and 4x the output of lootbags it can get thx to healing....

GW2 players will never stop whining...for god's sake, people should go play PvE or skyrim with god cheat if dieing hurts their feelings so hard

Did you try to read what i wrote? I said that i did play it. And outdamaging full dmg weaver and hammer revs consistently is not a meme to me. Sorry. Its not hard to play, you throw your aoes into them and watch the world burn. Takes 0 skill, only positioning knowledge, which every class needs in a zerg. Every other damage spec has close to 0 sustain aswell, nothing new for damage dealers.

Lol, worker still has to hit enemies, even with healing, to get kill participation you have to hit them.Warrior is full melee, that guard spec has plenty of range, so no, you dont loot more with warrior.

"dO yOu eVeN pLaY wVw?"

Yikes. Im pretty sure ive seen you "whine" in other threads aswell. Great arguments btw.

Edit: checked your post history, yes i remembered correctly, you also often make post about things you think are too strong. Should i now go into all those and call you out for "whining"? Nah, because your opinion is right, whatever you say is too strong and should be nerfed, while others are just whining.

I mean im not defending the build because i think i AM right...im trying to evaluate the truth here

On the traits for the dh variety of the burn build.almost nothing changed passed 2 years. Because its basicly a onetick pony that kills people on surprise and the 'problem' was fixed after Just a single dodgeroll.. immobe only affects one...So basicly 1v1 its easy and after first fight if 5v5 you should spread and focus him first...

The irony is that people can afford to get a onetrick pony build in competitive modes... The reason for this is that the supportive content in this gamemode is far to easy. And builds like this(of full glass jammer rev) can afford to not have Any utility

So no; im not defending this build...its fine however...its the circumstances how hè deals IT and how you deal with it...should we blame something in this game we should blame supports...the Guy running this build prob dies faster then a musquito

[hobotnicax.7918]

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Gwaihir.1745 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

If your 30 man cant clear a burn I've got bad news for you.

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

Lol. Even An 8k burntick needs one cleanse

Oh boy, you both have never played this build, the dmg is pretty much instant, depending on how many ppl you have around you.Especially bad if your caster are using projectiles, a reflect can nuke your frontline down before they even see the burn on them.

The trait permeating wrath lets every third hit they do triggers a flame explosion that puts burning onto a group of ppl, EVERY reflected projectile counts as their own attack. Reflect has no max amount of reflects.They have several other condis that trigger with the burn to cover it.

Here are 2 video that show what that build is able to do, and i played it myself and its just disgusting, especially in chokes, alone 4 uses of sword of justice will trigger burn soooo many times.

First risen howls video with full explanation with every trait working together explained.

Second figrin. The first clip of him engaging like 5 ppl says enough.

Sorry, but imo a single class should never be able to burst down 5 ppl almost instantly, even when they dont expect it. No excuses.

Did you try to even play that build?...it has close to 0 sustain, a pure meme build in the wrong hands....and on other hands, the "worker" warrior build is 4x times easier to play, 4x the sustain and 4x the output of lootbags it can get thx to healing....

GW2 players will never stop whining...for god's sake, people should go play PvE or skyrim with god cheat if dieing hurts their feelings so hard

Did you try to read what i wrote? I said that i did play it. And outdamaging full dmg weaver and hammer revs consistently is not a meme to me. Sorry. Its not hard to play, you throw your aoes into them and watch the world burn. Takes 0 skill, only positioning knowledge, which every class needs in a zerg. Every other damage spec has close to 0 sustain aswell, nothing new for damage dealers.

Lol, worker still has to hit enemies, even with healing, to get kill participation you have to hit them.Warrior is full melee, that guard spec has plenty of range, so no, you dont loot more with warrior.

"dO yOu eVeN pLaY wVw?"

Yikes. Im pretty sure ive seen you "whine" in other threads aswell. Great arguments btw.

Edit: checked your post history, yes i remembered correctly, you also often make post about things you think are too strong. Should i now go into all those and call you out for "whining"? Nah, because your opinion is right, whatever you say is too strong and should be nerfed, while others are just whining.

I mean im not defending the build because i think i AM right...im trying to evaluate the truth here

On the traits for the dh variety of the burn build.almost nothing changed passed 2 years. Because its basicly a onetick pony that kills people on surprise and the 'problem' was fixed after Just a single dodgeroll.. immobe only affects one...So basicly 1v1 its easy and after first fight if 5v5 you should spread and focus him first...

The irony is that people can afford to get a onetrick pony build in competitive modes... The reason for this is that the supportive content in this gamemode is far to easy. And builds like this(of full glass jammer rev) can afford to not have Any utility

So no; im not defending this build...its fine however...its the circumstances how hè deals IT and how you deal with it...should we blame something in this game we should blame supports...the Guy running this build prob dies faster then a musquito

LATION I saw you drop like a fly yesterday to a core tower ranger at Langor. I think you should stop posting on the forum and focus more on getting better at the game before you try to preach to others.

[RedShark.9548]

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Gwaihir.1745 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

If your 30 man cant clear a burn I've got bad news for you.

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

Lol. Even An 8k burntick needs one cleanse

Oh boy, you both have never played this build, the dmg is pretty much instant, depending on how many ppl you have around you.Especially bad if your caster are using projectiles, a reflect can nuke your frontline down before they even see the burn on them.

The trait permeating wrath lets every third hit they do triggers a flame explosion that puts burning onto a group of ppl, EVERY reflected projectile counts as their own attack. Reflect has no max amount of reflects.They have several other condis that trigger with the burn to cover it.

Here are 2 video that show what that build is able to do, and i played it myself and its just disgusting, especially in chokes, alone 4 uses of sword of justice will trigger burn soooo many times.

First risen howls video with full explanation with every trait working together explained.

Second figrin. The first clip of him engaging like 5 ppl says enough.

Sorry, but imo a single class should never be able to burst down 5 ppl almost instantly, even when they dont expect it. No excuses.

Did you try to even play that build?...it has close to 0 sustain, a pure meme build in the wrong hands....and on other hands, the "worker" warrior build is 4x times easier to play, 4x the sustain and 4x the output of lootbags it can get thx to healing....

GW2 players will never stop whining...for god's sake, people should go play PvE or skyrim with god cheat if dieing hurts their feelings so hard

Did you try to read what i wrote? I said that i did play it. And outdamaging full dmg weaver and hammer revs consistently is not a meme to me. Sorry. Its not hard to play, you throw your aoes into them and watch the world burn. Takes 0 skill, only positioning knowledge, which every class needs in a zerg. Every other damage spec has close to 0 sustain aswell, nothing new for damage dealers.

Lol, worker still has to hit enemies, even with healing, to get kill participation you have to hit them.Warrior is full melee, that guard spec has plenty of range, so no, you dont loot more with warrior.

"dO yOu eVeN pLaY wVw?"

Yikes. Im pretty sure ive seen you "whine" in other threads aswell. Great arguments btw.

Edit: checked your post history, yes i remembered correctly, you also often make post about things you think are too strong. Should i now go into all those and call you out for "whining"? Nah, because your opinion is right, whatever you say is too strong and should be nerfed, while others are just whining.

I mean im not defending the build because i think i AM right...im trying to evaluate the truth here

On the traits for the dh variety of the burn build.almost nothing changed passed 2 years. Because its basicly a onetick pony that kills people on surprise and the 'problem' was fixed after Just a single dodgeroll.. immobe only affects one...So basicly 1v1 its easy and after first fight if 5v5 you should spread and focus him first...

The irony is that people can afford to get a onetrick pony build in competitive modes... The reason for this is that the supportive content in this gamemode is far to easy. And builds like this(of full glass jammer rev) can afford to not have Any utility

So no; im not defending this build...its fine however...its the circumstances how hè deals IT and how you deal with it...should we blame something in this game we should blame supports...the Guy running this build prob dies faster then a musquito

I never mentioned 5v5, im talking about its impact on zergs. 5v5 is not zerging. I know there was a 1v5 in one of those videos, but that was just toshow its potential dmg output. Imo nobody should be able to do that in mere seconds.

Sure in 5v5 you can focus him and spread out more to not get all that burn, but i was talking about zergs.