100 Hours Sunk into Guild Wars 2 (A veteran MMORPG players takeaway)

[Etria.3642]

@frareanselm.1925 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Yeah meanwhile there are those of us sitting on 10,000+ hours over 8 years.

People coming into GW2 seeking "endgame progression" are missing the point. GW2 is the MMO eqvivalent of like... the "endgame progression" in the Battlefield series. There is just no such thing as "progression" once you get to a loadout you like. There is a learning curve for sure at 1-80 but it's like a tutorial, little more.

Endgame in GW2 is simply... playing the game. Play WvW if you want continous warfare. Play sPvP if you want quick matches. Play PvE if you just want to explore, get new fashion, achievements, instances etc.

Many of us are literally growing old with the game and are using it as a social hub while having fun. I mean what else are you going to do? Go on Twitter or Facebook? I'd rather dunk my head in a vat of acid.

What they mean by engame progression is "rewards for hard work". If they spend hundreds of hours to craft a legendary, or hundred raids to obtain a specific armor, the logic to expect is to have a little "advantage" over players who touch their balls all day. Just that.And by advantage I mean a little more stats, or damage or whataver. I'm not saying something crazy.That is the reason why 60% of players leave this game.

I guarantee you that someone who has raided that much does indeed have a skill advantage over someone who has not honed their skills. Crafting a legendary however only requires gold and time.

[XenesisII.1540]

@"Speak.1065" said:Hey All!I bought Guild Wars 2 about 2 weeks ago due to the pandemic currently leaving many of us quarantined. I have sunk 100+ hours into the game, currently I have a max lvl Core Guardian and a max lvl Reaper Necro. Initially I began this game after purchasing the "Guild Wars 2 Ultimate Package". I read the forums and started off by using the boost to bumble myself into part 1 of the PoF story in order to get the raptor mount and make my leveling experience more streamline and efficient then sidelined that character and leveled the Guardian and Necro. Currently my mastery lvl is about 70 and I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the leveling experience and the unique dynamic environment of each zone I was in. The map points of interest, vistas, questing style combined with a tailored/unique story based on your choices was engaging and rich. It is hands down the best leveling experience I have had, even topping KotOR, WoW, FFXIV and Firefall. The abilities, weapon combinations and specializations really made for an ever-changing rotation and interesting play style. Because of the above I very much appreciated this game.

However, here I am mastery lvl 70ish with 2 lvl 80 characters and a loss for words. I've done all the World Bosses multiple times, fractals up to 25, each dungeon at least 2-3 times in exploration mode, finished a tier 3 precursor weapon, 5 different mounts (and their masteries) done a few hundred jumping puzzles, PoF story, HoT story, and season 4 story. Yet I have not changed out a SINGLE piece of gear since I got a very cheap exotic set and weapon at lvl 80 (under 15g for each character). Considering all of this I asked myself a question this morning. "How is my character becoming any stronger from any of this?" The answer is simple, he isn't and neither are any of yours. The depth of the requirements necessary to raid, and craft ascended gear is absolutely asphyxiating. I crafted Dusk, a Tier 3 precursor weapon and came to realize there was nothing special about it, it was the same stats as the 2g great-sword I bought when I hit 80. The 30+ hours I spent diligently grinding those achievement requirements out were a complete ripoff. My inventory is overflowing with unused crafting materials because my bank/crafting bank are overfilled. They have no use because no one needs Rare or Masterwork items. They generally vendor for more then they are worth on the BLTP. I started to lose interest in even looting because the only things that actually has a value are the zone specific currencies and karma. If you have the fanatical work ethic to forge Twilight, Sunrise, Eternity, etc, I guarantee you that same trait applied in the job market will make you millions. There is no reason to really do anything after 80 unless your enjoyment of a game is the cool skins your character can wear and achievement points in a journal only you can see. As much as I loved this games "open worldness", unique zones, one of a kind character quality and expansive ability systems there is no end game progression. The grind just stalls to a resounding "Why?".

I would still recommend this to people looking for a new experience. To any former Wow(Classic and Live), KotOR, and FFXIV veterans seeing this please try this game so you can see a completely different experience in the realm of MMORPG, you wont be disappointed! (Until 50 hours into lvl 80 maybe =P)

This game was never about vertical gear power progression. It's horizontal achievement/cosmetic/mastery progression. But technically if you wanted more/different power out of your class, you'd roll up the elite specs instead, which in most cases gives your class a different play style.

[Voltekka.2375]

Lol as if 100 hours are enough for anything in gw2

[Cerioth.7062]

I have 17k+ hours on this game and not running out of things to do anytime soon. I still progress, too. Maybe not in terms of gear, but in terms of my skill as a player. GW2 has a surprising amount of depth with its combat system, and becoming really good at something takes a LOT of time and effort.

[Fallesafe.5932]

@"Speak.1065" said:Hey All!Yet I have not changed out a SINGLE piece of gear since I got a very cheap exotic set and weapon at lvl 80 (under 15g for each character). Considering all of this I asked myself a question this morning. "How is my character becoming any stronger from any of this?" The answer is simple, he isn't and neither are any of yours.

Exactly. And I don't see the point. There's nothing exciting or compelling about the game itself (there really isn't). What makes all activities in a game exciting or compelling are their connection to your character's progress. People who like this aspect of GW2 think that they're seeing through a "gear treadmill." But gear treadmills are life in the connection between work and reward.

If we lived in some alternate reality where everyone completely owned their house/apartment, and had all food and essential items delivered to them every morning for free... I'll bet they wouldn't keep showing up to their jobs. And I feel exactly the same way about running these boring, 5-year old fractals for the 10,000th time, or dragging an anvil through the swamp of the raid community when I already have everything I need, and will never gain anything new through the efforts.

Skins and achievements are busy work. I can't begin to understand why anyone would even log in for these "rewards."

[castlemanic.3198]

@Fallesafe.5932 said:

@"Speak.1065" said:Hey All!Yet I have not changed out a SINGLE piece of gear since I got a very cheap exotic set and weapon at lvl 80 (under 15g for each character). Considering all of this I asked myself a question this morning. "How is my character becoming any stronger from any of this?" The answer is simple, he isn't and neither are any of yours.

Exactly. And I don't see the point. There's nothing exciting or compelling about the game itself (there really isn't). What makes all activities in a game exciting or compelling are their connection to your character's progress. People who like this aspect of GW2 think that they're seeing through a "gear treadmill." But gear treadmills are life in the connection between work and reward.

You may not see the point, but many of us do. I've been playing this game since beta weekend 3 and I've loved almost every moment of it (apart from those early heart of thorns days shudder). the point is that the game ITSELF is fun and rewarding. the exploration itself is rewarding,

If we lived in some alternate reality where everyone completely owned their house/apartment, and had all food and essential items delivered to them every morning for free... I'll bet they wouldn't keep showing up to their jobs. And I feel exactly the same way about running these boring, 5-year old fractals for the 10,000th time, or dragging an anvil through the swamp of the raid community when I already have everything I need, and will never gain anything new through the efforts.

literally volunteering wouldn't be a thing if your theory was correct. which it's not. because people value true productivity and self actualization. in a world you describe, people would quit unrewarding jobs that overwork or underpay them and they'd do what they'd always loved to do, we see this with many universal basic incomes where the only people who stop working are teenagers and mothers who can now put their time into being teenagers or raising their family in the case of the mothers. everyone else LITERALLY became happier in these studies with just more access to money, because they felt valued, they worked harder and were more productive because they didn't have to worry about their house being taken away from them in case they had a medical emergency.

People would not edit wikis or play Minecraft for thousands of hours building to scale models of the Hogwarts castle in harry potter or other landmarks, fictional or real, if those tasks weren't in and of themselves rewarding. volunteering would cease to exist, but it continues to exist because people find the work itself is rewarding, that they're helping people is rewarding. the Minecraft players who make to scale models of everything? they find the game rewarding in and of itself, and can feel proud of their accomplishments, a thing that anybody CAN do in Minecraft, it's available to everyone who has the time and the patience. same with wiki editing, helping get the right information out is rewarding in and of itself, even if it may seem as trivial as a game wiki, people still take their free time to do it for the sake of others enjoyment.

just because you view the world cynically doesn't make your world view realistic.

Skins and achievements are busy work. I can't begin to understand why anyone would even log in for these "rewards."

you know what's ACTUALY busy work? gear treadmills. there's nothing inherently rewarding about them because they take the carrot and the stick approach and never give you the freakin carrot, especially for more casual players who may not have the time or the skill to play raids (or those that avoid raids because of toxic elitists).

I log in to this game because it's FUN. It's inherently rewarding for me to hop onto this world, even when i have nothing to do except ride around on my mount aimlessly, that's still fun for me. the skin rewards make them even more fun though, and the story is great and is always improving. so you may not see any need to play the game, but i and many others do and will continue to do so.

[EyzKold.8247]

I’ve been playing GW2 for a few days now and having a blast. I have six characters between 15 to 45 atm and leveling them up at a slow pace. I don’t want to rush anything. The class I like the most is split between engineer and thief. The engineer for pure laughs (playing Talking Heads Burning Down the House) while torching a monster. The thief has the best mobility of all the classes and general damage output not being too low but not high either.

The Elementalist, Necro, and Mesmer are ok but I lack targeting control with the mouse so my skills are all over the place. I do have the game controls setup to help with targeting/range but it’s not really working. The Ranger class is a work in progress.

The overall game experience feels balanced and the combat system is really good. The player community is very nice and help other players when they are down or need general help.

[Biff.5312]

I mean, he's basically saying: "I can't see why anyone would want to play this game unless they enjoy it."

What game is that not applicable to?

[Orthonen.9470]

It's like people on this thread are trying to correct the OP for an opinion. Ouch.

[Skotlex.7580]

@"EyzKold.8247" said:The Elementalist, Necro, and Mesmer are ok but I lack targeting control with the mouse so my skills are all over the place. I do have the game controls setup to help with targeting/range but it’s not really working. The Ranger class is a work in progress.

You may need to keybind "select nearest target" and use "snap ground skills to current target" to make it easier to manage the skill casting.

Also, since you are new I recommend binding "action camera" and giving it a try. Everything will loosely cast on whatever is nearest to the center of the screen, I find it enjoyable as I don't have to deal with actual targeting anymore and makes the game feel more action oriented and not anymore a tab-targeting game.

[Linthenius.3704]

Honestly I prefer the endgame to GW2 over others like WoW simply because I don't have to constantly get a new set of gear every month or so due to new drops simply having higher stats. While here its all about optimizing what pieces you do get and after that its all just cosmetics.

Fashion Wars 2 FTW

[Khisanth.2948]

@Aridon.8362 said:It's like people on this thread are trying to correct the OP for an opinion. Ouch.

Maybe if OP wasn't trying to pretend to be some sort of authority on the subject people would react differently starting from the subject line.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Maybe try taking your maxed level characters into PvP and see how strong they are?Could be an eye-opening experience.

Good luck.

[EyzKold.8247]

@Skotlex.7580 said:

@"EyzKold.8247" said:The Elementalist, Necro, and Mesmer are ok but I lack targeting control with the mouse so my skills are all over the place. I do have the game controls setup to help with targeting/range but it’s not really working. The Ranger class is a work in progress.

You may need to keybind "select nearest target" and use "snap ground skills to current target" to make it easier to manage the skill casting.

Also, since you are new I recommend binding "action camera" and giving it a try. Everything will loosely cast on whatever is nearest to the center of the screen, I find it enjoyable as I don't have to deal with actual targeting anymore and makes the game feel more action oriented and not anymore a tab-targeting game.

Thank you for the response. I will give it a try.

[yann.1946]

@castlemanic.3198 said:just because you view the world cynically doesn't make your world view realistic.

This is something a lot more people should see. I've seen so many people who consider themselves realist while just being a cynic.

[Cuks.8241]

To be honest this game is not ideal for hardcore pve players, raiders. Everything else I think it's really good.For me pvp is always at least half of the endgame and no vertical progression is a bliss for pvp.Anyway OP, if you haven't already gone through all the story and maps and participate in the big meta events in expansion maps you should try. It will take a lot of time, might not be hard but I think it is very well done. Core content maybe not the best but it really picks up with expansions.

[Khisanth.2948]

@EyzKold.8247 said:

@Skotlex.7580 said:

@EyzKold.8247 said:The Elementalist, Necro, and Mesmer are ok but I lack targeting control with the mouse so my skills are all over the place. I do have the game controls setup to help with targeting/range but it’s not really working. The Ranger class is a work in progress.

You may need to keybind "select nearest target" and use "snap ground skills to current target" to make it easier to manage the skill casting.

Also, since you are new I recommend binding "action camera" and giving it a try. Everything will loosely cast on whatever is nearest to the center of the screen, I find it enjoyable as I don't have to deal with actual targeting anymore and makes the game feel more action oriented and not anymore a tab-targeting game.

Thank you for the response. I will give it a try.

There are also some detrimental effects of using that though ... such as losing some range on skills in certain situations.

[Mortifer.2946]

@Speak.1065 said: ....

I chose this game BECAUSE it is not like WoW, because your gear does not lose it value over time. Because I can come back any time and enjoy so many modes I can play. If you have nothing to do after hitting lvl 80, you are playing it wrong, mate

[Luthan.5236]

Well ... I have had a different experience - so far: I played from release 2012 (headstart) until end of 2013. Then from June 2019 until now. (In between a break.) I understand that people playing regularly since the release might get bored - if they do all the new stuff as quickly as possible. (In a few days after new content gets released.) And if they aren't into repeatable and fun things like PvP. (Not fun for everyone.)

(Edit1: I have 2261 hours on my main, 3182 total - according to /age )

For new players or players that took a long break ... there might be lots of stuff to do. And achievements are not just only for the achievement points. Also for doing them and having fun. (Some harder stuff can be fun trying to figure it out. There are not just collections. Stuff where you need to avoid certain hits during fights and stuff like that. Might need a different than your usual build.)

Level 80 is only the start. Especially nowadays with all the content that comes after level 80 ... you can see the whole core personal story and leveling to 80 as a tutorial.

Compared to gear grinders (with gear treadmill) there is a lot of stuff to do for me. WoW on the other hand ... at release back then I played it for a few months and got bored fast. Felt too grindy and I thought "so what if I do that dungeon and bet better gear? they'll just have me do the next dungeon and I might feel forced to repeat it to grind for gear and get lucky with drops". No thanks. Already the philosophy behind that was a huge turn off. Knowing that I'd never reach the end ... was enough for me to not even want to start with that.

While in GW2 people complain that it is "too easy" ... for me that's just what it makes interesting. I can just do what I want. Jump straigth into the latest content. With the exception of masteries (pretty quick to gain them and account wide) no stuff like "do dungeon A 100 times then you get gear you need for dungeon B, do dungeon B 100 times, etc" .... until you have gear to do the latest stuff".

I enjoy the freedom here.

Edit2: Also the opening post seems like it describes the playstyle of some "hardcore" gamer. 100+ hours in 2 weeks after starting to play the game for the first time ... that is a bit much. I can imagine you'd get bored if you played that much. Hitting mastery level 70 only also hints at rushing through the content. (I have 144 mastery points used at the moment and I just got raptor mount and took my time to level HoT masteries fully including gliding while enjoying LS3 story and maps and the achievement completion.)

Target audiences for WoW and GW2 are just different - which is a good thing. (Otherwise GW2 would compete with WoW directly ... losing the players that like it boe being different while not gaining many more unless it can be a lot better at WoW. You just don't need 2 WoW.)

Edit3: And the guy that compares it to a job ... isn't totally wrong. If we got delivered food n stuff for free ... we might stop working. And to fun stuff. Like playing games. If GW2 had a gear treadmill system this would be "work" for me. Since most people have other "real" work already they would not need other work but fun in their free time. Why would they want to play GW2 then (if GW2 had a gear treadmill and were "work" instead of "fun") when they could play other games that are just fun? At least that is the logic which applies for me. And probably for a lot of people that like the game for what it is.

[keenedge.9675]

@Speak.1065 said:finished a tier 3 precursor weapon, 5 different mounts (and their masteries) done a few hundred jumping puzzles, PoF story, HoT story, and season 4 story.I crafted Dusk, a Tier 3 precursor weapon and came to realize there was nothing special about it, it was the same stats as the 2g great-sword I bought when I hit 80.

all of this in 100 hours --- very skeptical. ( It seems like this post shows up about once a year here and on Reddit )

[Dawdler.8521]

@keenedge.9675 said:

@Speak.1065 said:finished a tier 3 precursor weapon, 5 different mounts (and their masteries) done a few hundred jumping puzzles, PoF story, HoT story, and season 4 story.I crafted Dusk, a Tier 3 precursor weapon and came to realize there was nothing special about it, it was the same stats as the 2g great-sword I bought when I hit 80.

all of this in 100 hours --- very skeptical. ( It seems like this post shows up about once a year here and on Reddit )Quite. It takes ~40h just to complete vanilla world exploration.

[Dino.3680]

i actually agree with OP alot. The only reason i have sunken almost 11K hours into this game is because this is where my friends are. I have 1 friend FFXIV, One playing WoW, One that used to play ESO and one that used to play SWTOR. SO myself i have stopped playing SWTOR, WOW and mostly ESO. But i do play FFXIV still. But i always return to spend more hours in GW2. Not because of the story. GW2 story is only mediocre while FFXIV story is a work of art. The progression scheme in ffxiv is existant but slow paced enough that as a casual i can still keep pace. The reason i return to GW2 all the time and MAKE reasons why i "need" a new legendary is to have something to do in a game my friends are.Had a few more friends started actively playing any of the other mentioned MMO's i would probably be gone from gw2 forever.

[Game of Bones.8975]

I could tell your post was going to be negative when you put the word "sunk" into the title. People who are happy with the game usually put something like "played" or maybe even "invested."

You are excellent at everything you touch and can finish everything you want. So you are the exception to the rule. I'm guessing 99% of the players haven't done what you did and they have been playing years.

You rushed through all that and now are complaining you have nothing to do. To me that's your own fault. How much did you get out of the story?

If you're so bored with the game and find it's content too easy at high levels, become a mentor and run HP/MP through HoT and add Bounty Trains for PoF. There seems to always need to be a need for map completion in HoT.

[Game of Bones.8975]

@Roche.7491 said:True. Legendary weapon can be translated to legendary aesthetic plus convenience combined. Performance wise, it’s actually nothing.

Ascended is enough for me.

I only craft the Legendaries that look good to me or fit a character. So for me, it's the skins/animations.You can craft enough Ascended gear to make up for any stat swaps you may want for the same price/time it takes for a single Legendary.