How does someone learn how to play ?

[Bhabel Dalgheti.4285]

I have played many competitive games but this game has a learning curve that makes no sense .
I try to play weaver . Found a lightning rod build ; looked fun ; gave it a go . I m maybe 60 games in this season and i feel like i hit like a wet noodle . Tried looking for some guides but it looks like there is no guide to teach the basics . Is there a bnb sequence on this build ? Who knows ? On top of that the targeting is confusing at best and in the middle of all the chaos it s almost impossible to learn anything from a fight . At this point the game has become very frustrating and god knows i tried . My approach in every-game is take it one match at a time and you ll improve with each win and loss . But this is the first time where i feel like the game is telling me " if you dont have 4 years worth of experience in this game get the fuck out " .I expected to get matched with other new players in ranked but either i m the worst player to have ever played this game or something is really fishy because I get deleted in 2 secs to the point where it s a grey screen simulator and even when i get the jump on someone i feel like a kitten trying to bite a lion . Now i dont mind losing , but when there is no sense of improvement and after every game i m left with more questions and no answer to the previous ones it feels like the game is showing me the exist door .

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

in the middle of all the chaos it s almost impossible to learn anything from a fight .

Sometimes the lesson is not to enter a fight if you've got no clue what's going on. No one's holding a gun to your head. Timing, particularly as a thief, is of the essence.

[Bhabel Dalgheti.4285]

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

in the middle of all the chaos it s almost impossible to learn anything from a fight .

Sometimes the lesson is not to enter a fight if you've got no clue what's going on. No one's holding a gun to your head. Timing, particularly as a thief, is of the essence.

And thats not really an helpful answer because the question is what is going on ? What is a good fight ? And if a fight is " good" but i dont do what i should do because i dont know what to do , is that fight still "good" ? What timing ? That s the problem i was talking about in this game . It expects you to have 4 years worth of experience from the get go .

[Fueki.4753]

I don't think there is a learning curve in this game.I think it's a cliff.

There is too much going on at any given time for an average players to properly learn ingame.If you really feel the need to get good, the best shot you have is studying the Meta builds (and their counterplays) and try to identify them in a amtch asap.There are many people mindlessly copying meta builds from outside sources, not fully understanding them.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@Bhabel Dalgheti.4285 said:

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

in the middle of all the chaos it s almost impossible to learn anything from a fight .

Sometimes the lesson is not to enter a fight if you've got no clue what's going on. No one's holding a gun to your head. Timing, particularly as a thief, is of the essence.

And thats not really an helpful answer because the question is what is going on ? What is a good fight ? And if a fight is " good" but i dont do what i should do because i dont know what to do , is that fight still "good" ? What timing ? That s the problem i was talking about in this game . It expects you to have 4 years worth of experience from the get go .Dude, everything in life requires you have to a minimal experience before you even think about being effective. You can't just jump in something new and hope that everything will be okay.Even if we give you all the answers to your questions, you will still suck. The only way to progress is by experiencing, by playing the game until it "basis" become intuitive for you. In order to progress you have to fail first. So:

• how does someone learn how to drive? By driving
• how does someone learn how to cook? By cooking
• how does someone learn how to code? by coding
• how does someone learn how to play? by playing ffs

[Bhabel Dalgheti.4285]

@Fueki.4753 said:I don't think there is a learning curve in this game.I think it's a cliff.

There is too much going on at any given time for an average players to properly learn ingame.If you really feel the need to get good, the best shot you have is studying the Meta builds (and their counterplays) and try to identify them in a amtch asap.There are many people mindlessly copying meta builds from outside sources, not fully understanding them.

But here is the thing , studying a build is impossible if there is no point of reference . Let s take wow for example . If someone fresh out of leveling started pvp he would be taught on every guide and even by the game itself what he should do for a start . Let s say he plays warrior , well you want to charge first , then criple your opponent , then here is your bnb rotation for damage ...now do you always want to use your charge ? no . But the beginner will learn it after but for starters he can build upon a base and slowly improving towards situational moves and strategies . Now in gw2 i play lightning rod weaver . On average should i start air/air ? Air /fire ? Or earth ? I dont know , the game doesnt tell me and the guides dont tell me . Now i look at the build and i try to figure it out myself ...well i think air/ earth is nice ...but i dont have any gap closer so is it bad ? I dont know . Now do i use the wrong spells in the wrong order ? I dont know . Tried different things got the same results so at this point it s more like trying to randomly guess the combination of a safe-lock . I dont know if i m on the right track , i dont even know if i m on a track at all . And there are things that make this game harder for no reason like the targeting . I m facing an opponent i press tab and it targets a ranger s pet who s not even remotely close to me . I then have to either cycle through targets or click the guy but precious time has already been lost . All those things add up and make things so hard and so unwelcoming .

[Curennos.9307]

It's no secret that GW2 pvp is very unfriendly towards new players trying to learn things.

For this game, the first thing you should do to learn and get better is not necessarily to play multiple games in a row - rather, look at other classes and figure out how they work. The game has far too much visual clutter for new players to learn based purely off animations when they're starting. Mesmer will forever look like an aneurism of pink and purple until the day you make a mesmer and look at the traits, skills, etc.

metabattle.comgodsofpvp.netgw2skills.com

Are all very good resources to look stuff up. Try to get a feel of:

1) What kind of build you're facing at any given moment. Is it a tankier setup? Bursty? Sustain-y? How mobile can you expect them to be? Not even anything specific, just 'what does this setup have to do to win against me'. Say you're facing a necromancer. Generally speaking, you can expect few evades, lots of health. It'll win by being chonkier than you.2) The specifics. Differentiate between the setups the 'general' stuff can run. What kind of necro is it? Currently, there are two types - the core condi and the power reaper. Both setups have that second health bar, but core condi is more sustain-y, attrition-based. It has fears and stuff. On the other hand, while repeat is still pretty chunky, its shroud doesn't last nearly as long as core - but it has MUCH higher burst in shroud, and is melee in shroud.3) Learn the specific skills that the spec uses and what it means to get hit by 'em or to avoid it. Let's say you're facing a power reaper. Their goal is to build LF, then pop into shroud and nuke you. They aren't as burly as core condi, so they'll dip in and out of range a little bit - not as much as a thief, but they will.How will they do this?Their shroud skills are a very hard hitting auto attack, a gap closer that blocks projectile and blinds at the end (and does a lot of damage), a damage reduction skill that also pulses stability and fears when they 'break' it, a massive AoE burst, and an AoE stun.

You need to figure out what part of your kit you're going to match up against every part of their kit. Which skills are you going to evade? Blind? Kite? Should you try to pre-emptively predict and evade things (for reaper, yes - the fear when they 'break' their damage reduction stab-pulse armor doesn't have much of a tell, but they'll usually use it within the first couple sec of going into shroud to try and catch you in a CC chain of fear -> shroud#5 CC -> damage skill, usually shroud4).

As a sword thief, I usually use sword2 to teleport out of range while they're in shroud, so they can either wait and waste life force, or drop out of shroud and then I have ~10 sec to try and kill them.

4) Finally, What Does Winning Look Like, or if you like, 'how to get around what they're going to do to try and mitigate your skills'. How do you kill 'em, basically. What does shroud4 skill actually look like? How reliably can you notice them spinning around and how fast can you press your button to mitigate it how you planned? Do you know what the shroud4 animation is like, and can you dodge it in time even with the reaper's quickness? How well can you force the reaper to waste their defenses (minimize the value of their defenses when they're trying to mitigate your skills)? They only have two dodges - once those are gone, you can nuke them and there isn't much they can do.

5) Learn the limits of your build. At what point is a fight unwinnable? Can you tell when you should try to leave a fight? Learn matchup specific stuff and mode specific stuff - ie 'this is conquest - can I kill this necro fast enough before reinforcements come? Is there something more useful I could be doing?'

Or even in the middle of a fight, being able to tell when you made a fatal mistake and should retreat to fight another day.*this is an example, I don't claim this as comprehensive to any degree

---

It's very unfortunate that GW2 isn't very good at teaching players in game - really, the best place to start learning is outside the game, and the inside the game on a practice dummy, and THEN inside an actual match.

Good luck. https://discord.gg/ZBZJFK is a pvp discord for any questions you may have.

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 have a fav class2 copy a meta build for online sites3 read what every single skill and trait does4 get familiar with the build, by practicing on golems and in game, get the feel for it5 DO NOT play anything other then that 1 build you have chosen6 when you get comfortable on it, stop thinking about what YOU do with your character, play on "autopilot"7 when you do nr6 use your brainpower to focus on several other things namelyA state of the map ( what is capped and where, who fights and where )B state of your team ( who is dead, dying, respawning and where )8 When you fight others focus on what other classes/builds do, remember their skills and how they interact with your build.And important thing. MAKE IT A HABBIT TO LOOK AT THE MAP CONSTANTLY. Just a small glance every 5s

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@"Bhabel Dalgheti.4285" said:I have played many competitive games but this game has a learning curve that makes no sense .

I try to play weaver . Found a lightning rod build ; looked fun ; gave it a go . I m maybe 60 games in this season and i feel like i hit like a wet noodle . Tried looking for some guides but it looks like there is no guide to teach the basics . Is there a bnb sequence on this build ? Who knows ? On top of that the targeting is confusing at best and in the middle of all the chaos it s almost impossible to learn anything from a fight . At this point the game has become very frustrating and god knows i tried . My approach in every-game is take it one match at a time and you ll improve with each win and loss . But this is the first time where i feel like the game is telling me " if you dont have 4 years worth of experience in this game get the kitten out " .I expected to get matched with other new players in ranked but either i m the worst player to have ever played this game or something is really fishy because I get deleted in 2 secs to the point where it s a grey screen simulator and even when i get the jump on someone i feel like a kitten trying to bite a lion . Now i dont mind losing , but when there is no sense of improvement and after every game i m left with more questions and no answer to the previous ones it feels like the game is showing me the exist door .Hmm... Not many skills require target to be used. Most of them can be fired without it.Actually it's rather difficult question to answer.I would say:

1. Play your class and learn/memorize skills effects AND animations(PvP/WvW/PvE, doesn't matter where, you need to know what specific skill does and how it looks like).
2. Learn other classes. Making alts and trying them yourself would be the best way to learn it, bonus points for recording it and then rewatching in slow-motion(Same as above, skill effects, animations).
3. If you want to know how to X vs Y watch some videos on yt or twitch streamers or even join some 1v1 arenas and observe what happens.
4. Learn maps, as stupid as it may sound it may be deciding factor of the fight. Getting to know maps allow you to "kite", aka annoy enemy and don't get yourself killed.
5. You can also make specific chat tabs that will show combat log like outgoing damage by x skill, incoming heal, etc etc, may be useful for learning what to avoid etc.
6. Recording your own games and rewatching them.
7. Minimap is your friend, don't forget to look at it from time to time.
8. Giving info via team chat may be useful.
9. Rotations.
10. Something something I forgot what I wanted to write.Dunno what else to say here tbh.You may encounter problems with visual kitten, which annoys even veterans.Actually, you're a bit lucky if have started very recently, since few months ago balance was in a lot worse state.https://www.godsofpvp.net/guides/getting-started/introduction-r1/ < this one could be useful.Well, matchups are kinda hit or miss usually(Ranked a bit better, Unranked is RNGesus at its finest), you either stomp enemy or they stomp you, so don't pay attention to that.

[Bhabel Dalgheti.4285]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Bhabel Dalgheti.4285 said:

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

in the middle of all the chaos it s almost impossible to learn anything from a fight .

Sometimes the lesson is not to enter a fight if you've got no clue what's going on. No one's holding a gun to your head. Timing, particularly as a thief, is of the essence.

And thats not really an helpful answer because the question is what is going on ? What is a good fight ? And if a fight is " good" but i dont do what i should do because i dont know what to do , is that fight still "good" ? What timing ? That s the problem i was talking about in this game . It expects you to have 4 years worth of experience from the get go .Dude, everything in life requires you have to a minimal experience before you even think about being effective. You can't just jump in something new and hope that everything will be okay.Even if we give you all the answers to your questions, you will still suck. The only way to progress is by experiencing, by playing the game until it "basis" become intuitive for you. In order to progress you have to fail first. So:

• how does someone learn how to drive? By driving
• how does someone learn how to cook? By cooking
• how does someone learn how to code? by coding
• how does someone learn how to play? by playing kitten

I guess you didnt understand my post ... as i said in my post . I m used to playing competitive games ...i played fighting games to a descent lvl all my life . I played wow for years and i was in the 2k3 rating range , i play league and i think plat 1 is descent , starcraft , starcraft 2, a crap ton of warcraft 3 ... so yes i know what a learning curve is and i know that you always suck at first . But here is the thing . You at least have a learning curve . You start somewhere you have a basis that is straight forward and then you build on it . Here , there is nothing . Yes if someone wants to learn to fight he should start fighting .But if you have Mayweather jumping on you everytime you step into the ring and breaking you a couple of bones in 5 seconds each time , my bet is you ll find another hobby .

[Ryan.9387]

Preface: LR is a masochistic build. You're almost guaranteed to die playing it for no reason other than bad matchups.

Preface 2: I'm going to ignore rotation because tbh its incredibly straightforward.

How to get good:

Practice core mechanics and focus your mental energy improving on one aspect of your play at a time. This is best done in duels.

For example:I'm going to not random dodge. I will dodge (big skill) instead.I'm going to count every dodge the opponent makes, then use (big skill) after.Before I use a CC skill, I'll check whether the opponent has stability.I'll make a mental note of enemy weapon swaps, and adjust my playstyle to account for its strengths/weaknesses.I don't know how to deal damage with my build vs (some other build). I'll view every trait/skill on both builds and assess best times to attack or evade.EtcEtc

Pick an aspect of your play, work on it until it becomes habit, then move to another task. You will quickly find most people are completely clueless and make no effort to play, they're just full muscle memory and button mashing. Just a couple of points drilled down will put you so far ahead of the average player that ranked will start to feel like a waste of time.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@Bhabel Dalgheti.4285 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Bhabel Dalgheti.4285 said:

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

in the middle of all the chaos it s almost impossible to learn anything from a fight .

Sometimes the lesson is not to enter a fight if you've got no clue what's going on. No one's holding a gun to your head. Timing, particularly as a thief, is of the essence.

And thats not really an helpful answer because the question is what is going on ? What is a good fight ? And if a fight is " good" but i dont do what i should do because i dont know what to do , is that fight still "good" ? What timing ? That s the problem i was talking about in this game . It expects you to have 4 years worth of experience from the get go .Dude, everything in life requires you have to a minimal experience before you even think about being effective. You can't just jump in something new and hope that everything will be okay.Even if we give you all the answers to your questions, you will still suck. The only way to progress is by experiencing, by playing the game until it "basis" become intuitive for you. In order to progress you have to fail first. So:

• how does someone learn how to drive? By driving
• how does someone learn how to cook? By cooking
• how does someone learn how to code? by coding
• how does someone learn how to play? by playing kitten

I guess you didnt understand my post ... as i said in my post . I m used to playing competitive games ...i played fighting games to a descent lvl all my life . I played wow for years and i was in the 2k3 rating range , i play league and i think plat 1 is descent , starcraft , starcraft 2, a kitten ton of warcraft 3 ... so yes i know what a learning curve is and i know that you always suck at first . But here is the thing . You at least have a learning curve . You start somewhere you have a basis that is straight forward and then you build on it . Here , there is nothing . Yes if someone wants to learn to fight he should start fighting .But if you have Mayweather jumping on you everytime you step into the ring and breaking you a couple of bones in 5 seconds each time , my bet is you ll find another hobby .

Have you played pve in gw2? Do you know what all the classes are and what their abilities do? Are you comfortable with constant movement and kiting? Do you know how to string together burst combos? From your other posts it sounds like you are still learning the fundamentals of combat. If you just jump straight into pvp without knowing the game, you should expect to get farmed. Gw2 combat is much more complicated than WoW, or pretty much any mmo for that matter. You cant really look up a build and play it unless you already know the class very well. Also weaver is one of the most difficult classes to play in pvp.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

This combat system/vissuals/clutter is to much for 5v5 Imo. it never was suited for it. With no more then 3v3 you are able to understand what going on and see the actual combat and animations of your enemy.

If you want to learn this game i suggest you do some 1v1s so youcan learn what you need to do when you encounter an enemy.

Since all there is is 5v5 the only suggestion i can give is keep your head on a swivel so u dont get surprised attacked. If you cant/dont see it you cant react to it.

As far as hitting like a wet noddle you can look at builds from godsofpvp.netIf you are not using something meta then u probably will be very ineffective unfortunately.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

U dont learn to play in gw2, u need actually competitive play to learn and skillfull players to learn by and sry to gw2 players who think their skilled lmao ur not.What u can learn though is u can pick any brainless condi build and top it off with the many retarded carry mechanics the incompetent devs added into the game like1 out play a reaper or necro while its condi or power bursting u back but when u get it close to dead it gets a sec hp bar lmao.2 fb, burn guards literally zero skill spam all their condi skills on u then go on defensive till condi skills go off CD than the brainlessly spam them again- gw2 skilled gameplay.Condi rev- see above lolCondi thief- spam repeater, wow crazy skillThose are the bulk of the classes builds ull fight so u wont learn much unfortunately.Pvp basically dead in the game.

[Axl.8924]

@"Bhabel Dalgheti.4285" said:I have played many competitive games but this game has a learning curve that makes no sense .

I try to play weaver . Found a lightning rod build ; looked fun ; gave it a go . I m maybe 60 games in this season and i feel like i hit like a wet noodle . Tried looking for some guides but it looks like there is no guide to teach the basics . Is there a bnb sequence on this build ? Who knows ? On top of that the targeting is confusing at best and in the middle of all the chaos it s almost impossible to learn anything from a fight . At this point the game has become very frustrating and god knows i tried . My approach in every-game is take it one match at a time and you ll improve with each win and loss . But this is the first time where i feel like the game is telling me " if you dont have 4 years worth of experience in this game get the kitten out " .I expected to get matched with other new players in ranked but either i m the worst player to have ever played this game or something is really fishy because I get deleted in 2 secs to the point where it s a grey screen simulator and even when i get the jump on someone i feel like a kitten trying to bite a lion . Now i dont mind losing , but when there is no sense of improvement and after every game i m left with more questions and no answer to the previous ones it feels like the game is showing me the exist door .

I got some decent advice: try to watch known skilled streamers who play weaver to try and get an idea how to play and observe what to avoid and also play the game as well to learn what to avoid.

For instance: When I wanted to learn how to play thief, i looked upa player and watched his build and how he played to get an idea.

[cyberzombie.7348]

Here's how I learned.

1: Went to hotjoin servers to learn map layouts and mechanics2: Used 1v1 servers to learn class mechanics, skill combinations, builds, and develop personal skill3: Went to unranked to fine-tune builds and develop better map awareness along with team coordination.4: After everything aligned that's when I did ranked

[Tayga.3192]

Don't worry, after a while you will notice almost 90% of the players you will queue into will be as clueless as you. Conquest has an extremely steep learning curve (it's ridiculously hard to be good at this game, anyone below p3 is a pretty bad player, including me) but you can kind of "cheat" this by always playing the best build.

[dronte.3416]

Learn or at least try out ALL meta builds. Only way to understand strengths and weaknesses - basically the most important thing when playing pvp.

Watch top level streams of the build you want to play. You won't understand too much about skills and all that in the beginning (too fast paced for beginners), but it definitely helps you to understand decision making and rotations.

[pukish.5784]

watch top level streamersplay 10000games

salty experience makes you stronger

[Jelle.7856]

Hi @"Bhabel Dalgheti.4285"!

Really glad you're trying out the PVP scene, we're always glad to have new players. I can completely understand how frustrating it is to learn how to PVP in GW2, especially on a complicated class like ele. It personally took me a few hundred games before I felt like I was playing my class at a high level, and few hundred more before I felt like I developed a sound game sense. I have around 3,000 games now in total so keep at it and keep practicing!

I think a great tool to help improve is joining a PVP guild. They usually have a lot of players, both old and new, who are willing to practice with you and train together. If you feel like it, feel free to shoot me a mail/pm in game and you can join ours! Jelle.7856

My framework for learning to PVP would be as follows:

1. Learn your class
2. Learn about other classes
3. Learn map rotations and kiting techniques

Learn your class

• When first starting out, I would pick a class you enjoy playing and stick with it. You want to be able to know the class like the back of your hand. What are all your traits and what do they do, what abilities are your stun breaks, what are your available boons, weapon sets, CC abilities, combo fields/finishers etc. Once you know all of these, you can start using your class effectively. You'll know what you need to do if you get cc'd, what you need to do to deal dmg etc. Knowing all of these will help you design and craft your own builds that fit your play-style. Personally, I don't think meta builds are the end-all-be-all. They are great for getting to know the framework for what's strong about a class, but they are not a one size fits all type of build. Each person has their specific nuances when approaching a class, and you can use your knowledge of a class to create a build that allows you to perform at your highest potential.

Learn about other classes

• Once you learn your own class, the next step would be familiarizing yourself with other classes. You don't necessarily need to know it as detailed as your own class, but understand the main traits and abilities in a build and what they do. You should be able to recognize animations or sounds and understand whether your opponent is about to do dmg, cc you, heal etc. The better you know another class, the more effectively you can punish them for their mistakes.

Once you have a solid grasp of the first two points, you can basically duel anyone and any class in the game. Even in the scenario against "meta classes" ie condi rev/condi thief, etc. which are both easily winnable fights if you have a good grasp on the two points above.

Learn map rotations and kiting techniques

• This is definitely the hardest thing to learn and the strategies really depend on your experience in the game, as well as what class you're playing.
• For kiting, this is a mixture of what you learned in the two points above, paired with how well you know different map terrains. Know how to use your mobility abilities, dodges, invuls, heals in an efficient way that prolongs your survive-ability and this can be prolonged with terrain knowledge (i.e where are the jumping puzzles in the maps, where are the non port spots, where can I lose line of sight, etc.). There are a ton of guides showing you the locations on YouTube.
• For rotations, this depends on what specific class/build you're playing, what your intended role is, and what's going on around the map (who's dead on the enemy team, where are their fights etc, what are the current points). Vallun has a great video on this:

Good luck!

[Buran.3796]

You should start chosing a class and build you want to focus in.Then search guides and videos about that build, and follow streamers which use your chosen class and see how they play and why.Finally, just play. Is not different from lifting weights: you improve you squat and deadlift doing squats and deadlifts.

[xWiroo.3841]

In my case, I learned from experience, just playing and getting to know what class is better at what, learned what they cant and they cant do, I asked few people around about builds i didnt know, read forums (not really useful tho), watched couple pvp videos wich can help sometimes, read metabattle builds, tho i prefer godsofpvp ones.

But above all, playing different classes and builds, you will eventually find what you like, what you are good at and what you suck at, once you know that, you can only get better.

[rng.1024]

Sounds to me you are not familiar with other professions skills and builds.

Take some time to play with them in PvE until you have a general sense of what they do, that way you will know exactly what happens in a more high-octane scenario when it's done to you.

Play unranked until you know which fights to go for (plus less salt here). Youtube is a great resource for learning conquest, twitch has quite a few streamers too - watch and take notes.

We've all been there, but eventually you will find you have a somewhat grip on your role/skill level, and then you should start queuing ranked in order to match with people closer to your rating in order to improve.

If you want the fast track:Search for "Sindrener" on youtube and choose any of the videos from around 3-4 years ago, these will hammer in how to play conquest for you 5 hours straight at a time.

[Teratus.2859]

@Fueki.4753 said:I don't think there is a learning curve in this game.I think it's a cliff.

There is too much going on at any given time for an average players to properly learn ingame.If you really feel the need to get good, the best shot you have is studying the Meta builds (and their counterplays) and try to identify them in a amtch asap.There are many people mindlessly copying meta builds from outside sources, not fully understanding them.

I agree, this is pretty much why I don't find min/maxing gameplay fun in PvE as well.If the game aint fun then why play it right?..

[Stand The Wall.6987]

learn on something that is both easy to play and tanky. may I introduce you to core necro. keep in mind its slow and people will gang up on you in the beginning of the match since necros left alone do lots of damage. the key is to not over extend and play safe. if you get in trouble run towards allies unless you know what you're doing.