The Warclaw Needs Some Love ( in PVE ) - [Merged]

[LucianDK.8615]

There is no role the warclaw can fit in general use for pve. We have 3 land mounts already. And if you make the warclaw neeeded for anything in pve, its a can of worms, as you essentially force pvers in wvw for it. I well remember all the angst that happened when the warclaw was introduced, every wvwer lamenting pvers in their gamemode.

[flog.3485]

@Atomos.7593 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:

@borgs.6103 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:

@borgs.6103 said:Warclaw has the highest disengage damage out of all the mounts in PvE. That's its distinction from the others and in my opinion is on point, with the mount being called

Warclaw

and all that.

Where did you get this information from? Because according to the GW2 wiki it doesn't have the most damage out of all of the mounts in PvE even with the ravenous discipline mastery unlocked from the raptor.Yeah I just checked.They removed the bleeding in PvE too it seems. That was its edge. It does the same damage as raptor now. RIP warclaw.

Wow I didn't even know that there used to bleeding damage in PvE before lol. Seems kind of silly to remove it in PvE since PvE is not competitive and I doubt that skill used to be overpowered in PvE. I wonder if the bleeding removal in PvE was intentional.

It is a design change. They can’t separate design changes from one game mode to another.

As for the topic at hand, please do not waste time making warclaw relevant in PvE. If it is going to be relevant, then it first needs to get its niche and with pretty much all movement skill abilities already covered by all the existing mounts, I personally don’t want the devs to scratch their head and waste time figuring out what the warclaw would do that no other mount can’t do.Another problem as well, is that, if it becomes relevant, then the majority of players will complain that they need to play WvW just to be able to perform in PvE.

But Anet have already done many design changes that are specific to game modes. For example some skills work differently between PvE, WvW and PvP. Also the warclaw skill battle maul already does different damage in PvP than PvE due to a higher transformation damage coefficient according to the GW2 wiki.

You don’t get my point. They can change how strong one skill performs from one game mode to another, but they cannot make the warclaw do bleeding in PvE and not inflict bleeding when players play in WvW.

For example, if the warclaw was able to go underwater, it would be impossible for the devs to decide that in WvW, the warclaw would not be able swim.

That is why it is pretty much impossible to buff the warclaw in PvE (outside of speed maybe because speed has an arithmetic value) because any change that would be introduced in PvE would affect WvW. And since the devs have been reducing the effectiveness of the warclaw in WvW, then they obviously have no intention of buffing it in any way, shape or form.

My point is why wouldn't they be able to make the bleed from warclaw do different damage in PvE than in WvW since skills are already different between game modes?

I guess they could. But is it worth the effort though ? Will it make it more popular just because it has an engage skill that applies two stacks of bleeds ? Don’t forget they cannot make it too strong as well because it makes the core experience of the game even more powercrept.

Sounds like a waste of time imo. If they really want to make mounts more appealing in PvE, they’d better focus on the PvE only mounts.

Oh wait, that is exactly what they are doing for the anniversary! More variety, more opportunities and the biggest advantage of being consistent with the recent updates without the risk of alienating the WvW invested players.

Edit:typo

[Atomos.7593]

@flog.3485 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:

@borgs.6103 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:

@borgs.6103 said:Warclaw has the highest disengage damage out of all the mounts in PvE. That's its distinction from the others and in my opinion is on point, with the mount being called

Warclaw

and all that.

Where did you get this information from? Because according to the GW2 wiki it doesn't have the most damage out of all of the mounts in PvE even with the ravenous discipline mastery unlocked from the raptor.Yeah I just checked.They removed the bleeding in PvE too it seems. That was its edge. It does the same damage as raptor now. RIP warclaw.

Wow I didn't even know that there used to bleeding damage in PvE before lol. Seems kind of silly to remove it in PvE since PvE is not competitive and I doubt that skill used to be overpowered in PvE. I wonder if the bleeding removal in PvE was intentional.

It is a design change. They can’t separate design changes from one game mode to another.

As for the topic at hand, please do not waste time making warclaw relevant in PvE. If it is going to be relevant, then it first needs to get its niche and with pretty much all movement skill abilities already covered by all the existing mounts, I personally don’t want the devs to scratch their head and waste time figuring out what the warclaw would do that no other mount can’t do.Another problem as well, is that, if it becomes relevant, then the majority of players will complain that they need to play WvW just to be able to perform in PvE.

But Anet have already done many design changes that are specific to game modes. For example some skills work differently between PvE, WvW and PvP. Also the warclaw skill battle maul already does different damage in PvP than PvE due to a higher transformation damage coefficient according to the GW2 wiki.

You don’t get my point. They can change how strong one skill performs from one game mode to another, but they cannot make the warclaw do bleeding in PvE and not inflict bleeding when players play in WvW.

For example, if the warclaw was able to go underwater, it would be impossible for the devs to decide that in WvW, the warclaw would not be able swim.

That is why it is pretty much impossible to buff the warclaw in PvE (outside of speed maybe because speed has an arithmetic value) because any change that would be introduced in PvE would affect WvW. And since the devs have been reducing the effectiveness of the warclaw in WvW, then they obviously have no intention of buffing it in any way, shape or form.

My point is why wouldn't they be able to make the bleed from warclaw do different damage in PvE than in WvW since skills are already different between game modes?

I guess they could. But is it worth the effort though ? Will it make it more popular just because it has an engage skill that applies two stacks of bleeds ? Don’t forget they cannot make it too strong as well because it makes the core experience of the game even more powercrept.

Sounds like a waste of time imo. If they really want to make mounts more appealing in PvE, they’d better focus on the PvE only mounts.

Oh wait, that is exactly what they are doing for the anniversary! More variety, more opportunities and the biggest advantage of being consistent with the recent updates without the risk of alienating the WvW invested players.

Edit:typo

Doing something simple like increasing the engage skill damage wouldn't take much effort. Something is better than nothing. I have seen updates to the game for more useless things.

I imagine many WvW players also play PvE and vice versa, so I don't know why you are focusing so much on a perceived WvW/PvE player base division. Not everyone has all of the mounts unlocked. Should there be no changes made to the roller beetle or skyscale because some people haven't done the collections to unlock them too?

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"Josiah.2967" said:If you buff the Warclaw to the point it is used in PVE, PVE players will be upset. I don't think the Warclaw should be usable in PVE in the first place, that would of eliminated this request.

That's a good point as well. If the Warclaw becomes "desirable" for use in PvE, that will open the floodgates of "Why do I have to go into WvW to get a mount for PvE!!!!111oneoneone"

Being an MMO dev must be fun, eh?

[Obtena.7952]

@serialkicker.5274 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@serialkicker.5274 said:This topic only gives suggestion. You don't know what would happen either, so saying it's nonsensical, it's by itself nonsensical.

Right ... and it's poorly thought out suggestion because there hasn't been provided a reason to do it. Actually, we can anticipate pretty well that Anet isn't going to make Warclaw better in PVE just to sell more skins for it because

1. they already have PVE mounts that can sell them skins for less effort
2. not being PVE-useful doesn't prevent Anet from making Warclaw skins to sell

That's not speculation.. those things are true. On the other hand, the idea that Anet improve warclaw to improve Warclaw skin sales at the expense of something else they are working on ... is bordering on a not sensible reason because it's speculative. I mean, I get you don't want to think about 'need' but the reality is that Anet people aren't sitting around waiting for randomly bad ideas to implement from players because they are actually working on things that they determined to be more necessary.

Again, I don't get why me asking for a reason to make this change has made you go to in rant, off topic mode ... but don't worry, I will keep you on topic :wink: If you want to provide a reason for the change other than speculative vague benefits you have already stated, I'm interested to hear about what you think. Otherwise, just keep cracking on about berserker or whatever other random thoughts you fancy.

I already explained why I went on "rant". And I did it clearly. Multiple times.

There were ton of people who said that for raids, same as you are now for this. "There is no way they will put raids in." "Guild wars 2 wasn't designed for raids." "Game is too casual for raids." "They said there won't be raids." Guess what. We have raids.

I've provided you my explanation for why I don't think the OP suggestion is good. Nothing in you off-topic post responds to that explanation or anyone elses on-topic content in the thread for that matter. If you care to try again to respond and stay on topic, it would be appreciated by everyone in this thread.

[serialkicker.5274]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@serialkicker.5274 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@serialkicker.5274 said:This topic only gives suggestion. You don't know what would happen either, so saying it's nonsensical, it's by itself nonsensical.

Right ... and it's poorly thought out suggestion because there hasn't been provided a reason to do it. Actually, we can anticipate pretty well that Anet isn't going to make Warclaw better in PVE just to sell more skins for it because

1. they already have PVE mounts that can sell them skins for less effort
2. not being PVE-useful doesn't prevent Anet from making Warclaw skins to sell

That's not speculation.. those things are true. On the other hand, the idea that Anet improve warclaw to improve Warclaw skin sales at the expense of something else they are working on ... is bordering on a not sensible reason because it's speculative. I mean, I get you don't want to think about 'need' but the reality is that Anet people aren't sitting around waiting for randomly bad ideas to implement from players because they are actually working on things that they determined to be more necessary.

Again, I don't get why me asking for a reason to make this change has made you go to in rant, off topic mode ... but don't worry, I will keep you on topic :wink: If you want to provide a reason for the change other than speculative vague benefits you have already stated, I'm interested to hear about what you think. Otherwise, just keep cracking on about berserker or whatever other random thoughts you fancy.

I already explained why I went on "rant". And I did it clearly. Multiple times.

There were ton of people who said that for raids, same as you are now for this. "There is no way they will put raids in." "Guild wars 2 wasn't designed for raids." "Game is too casual for raids." "They said there won't be raids." Guess what. We have raids.

I've provided you my explanation for why I don't think the OP suggestion is good. Nothing in you off-topic post responds to that explanation or anyone elses on-topic content in the thread for that matter. If you care to try again to respond and stay on topic, it would be appreciated by everyone in this thread.

Just because I mentioned another of your thread and you don't like it, because you contradicted yourself, doesn't mean it's off topic - because with it, I addressed your argument and why it was unfair and dishonest.

If you think addressing that point is "off topic", then you shouldn't bring out your first argument at all.

As for your opinion on why it doesn't make sense to rework warclaw, because we already have other mounts and nonsense like that... Yeah, I also addressed that. It's your opinion and you have no way of knowing how popular reworked warclaw would be, therefore you have no way of knowing if it would be beneficial or worthy for Arenanet or not. People pay money for all sort of things, "unneeded" and "we already have this" items included.We already had mounts, yet we got more of them. We already had a mount that can climb anywhere in the game, yet we got skyscale. Was it worth it? Who knows. The more mounts they put in game, the more complex balancing becomes and requires more effort to design maps in a way, where every mount would feel useful. You think that doesn't take resources and time? There was nothing we couldn't do with four core mounts. Yet, we got two more. But, OH HELL NO, having workable warclaw (which is already in PvE for some reason - they could just not put it in PvE if they didn't want to bother with making it reasonably usable) is somehow too much to ask for and not worthy.

[kharmin.7683]

From the March 5, 2019 game release notes when the warclaw was officially released:"The new warclaw mount can now be unlocked in WvW. To accommodate this addition, a Warclaw Mastery line has been added to the Rank and Abilities tab of the World vs. World panel. Training the first skill in the mastery line will unlock a collection achievement that, once completed, allows players to purchase a warclaw from vendors in the Borderlands. Once the warclaw has been unlocked, players can summon it anywhere that mounts can be used, but warclaws are especially effective in WvW where they excel in battle and siege warfare. A well-trained warclaw can finish off enemies who are in a downed state, detect nearby foes, and even help destroy gates in siege battles."

To me, it seems that the warclaw was not intended to be anything more than a simple mount in areas not WvW. With the glut of other, available PvE mounts, I don't understand how adjusting anything for the warclaw in PvE would make it any different than the rest of the mounts. Additionally, the warclaw requires Path of Fire. Unlocking the warclaw takes more effort than unlocking a raptor which, arguably, is better served in PvE than a warclaw.

[Super Hayes.6890]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Super Hayes.6890" said:Sounds like neither of you will convince the other... Anyways, I'm pretty sure the only reason warclaw exists in PvE is to get new players to say, "That's cool, how do I get one?" They then research and play WvW to get it and hopefully enjoy the game mode.

That's actually a really good reason to NOT improve it for PVE ... WvW needs to entice all the players it can to try it out.

I agree on that point. As much as I would enjoy more functionality in PvE, right now it basically says, "Come to WvW and see what this mount can really do."

[Taril.8619]

PvE Players: Can we have a useful Warclaw?Mom: We have a Warclaw at home.

Warclaw at home: WvW Warclaw

[dmone.5631]

The Chain Pull functionality would be great for Drizzlewood Coast.

[Atomos.7593]

Obviously the warclaw was introduced as a WvW mount. I can't understand the logic that this means it must be useless for PvE. Why can't a mount be useful in more than a single game mode? It seems like people are just afraid of this happening for no real reason, other than that they may personally not desire to ever play WvW no matter what.

In my opinion the warclaw should never have been made even for WvW. It created more problems for that game mode than benefits, which is why warclaw's blessing effect was introduced and the mount nerfed.

[kharmin.7683]

@Atomos.7593 said:Obviously the warclaw was introduced as a WvW mount. I can't understand the logic that this means it must be useless for PvE. Why can't a mount be useful in more than a single game mode?Then, let's allow all mounts in WvW.

In my opinion the warclaw should never have been made even for WvW.Agreed.

[Atomos.7593]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:Obviously the warclaw was introduced as a WvW mount. I can't understand the logic that this means it must be useless for PvE. Why can't a mount be useful in more than a single game mode?Then, let's allow all mounts in WvW.

Indeed, the skyscale would fit perfectly for WvW. Imagine the amazing effects and lag that would be created from everyone using the blast engage skill all the time.

[Svarty.8019]

@Atomos.7593 said:In my opinion the warclaw should never have been made even for WvW

The only people who think this are the ones who ganked people who didn't want to fight them.

[Atomos.7593]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:In my opinion the warclaw should never have been made even for WvW

The only people who think this are the ones who ganked people who didn't want to fight them.

I see much more ganks and zergs in WvW now after the warclaw was introduced than before. Everyone can just ride quickly to their teammates side to help them zerg. But why wouldn't you want to fight players in WvW anyway? Isn't that the whole point of the mode?

At this point I would be happy if they removed the warclaw from WvW completely and made it a useful PvE mount. But then people might complain about its removal, since Anet already introduced the warclaw in WvW.

[Svarty.8019]

@Atomos.7593 said:why wouldn't you want to fight players in WvW anyway? Isn't that the whole point of the mode?

NO, the point of the mode is to score points. There are many ways to score points, only some of which involve killing enemies.

There are many reasons to avoid enemies, for example running back to teammates, particularly if you're running as a support build. Fighting in a group is something even non-twitchy players can do, which means you don't need to be the best player in the world, which means that it's an option available to normal/bad players which allows them to have fun with other players - so that's why the people running from spawn don't want to mess about with some gank-built 1v1 specialist. Or, as is more frequent recently, a group of five people who only jump on smaller numbers.

[Atomos.7593]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:why wouldn't you want to fight players in WvW anyway? Isn't that the whole point of the mode?

NO, the point of the mode is to score points. There are many ways to score points, only some of which involve killing enemies.

There are many reasons to avoid enemies, for example running back to teammates, particularly if you're running as a support build. Fighting in a group is something even non-twitchy players can do, which means you don't need to be the best player in the world, which means that it's an option available to normal/bad players which allows them to have fun with other players - so that's why the people running from spawn don't want to mess about with some gank-built 1v1 specialist. Or, as is more frequent recently, a group of five people who only jump on smaller numbers.

I doubt Anet designed an entire mode involving players killing each other so that people could rack up points. Like you said killing enemies gets points so I see no problem with people dying in WvW. Is it so upsetting to be killed in a game?

Sure there are many reasons to run from a fight. But that's why I don't think the warclaw should have been added. Because when someone tries to run from a fight I could simply mount my warclaw and chase them down if I wanted to. The warclaw has made it even easier for everyone to engage in one massive fight in a single location, since everyone can quickly get there even after being killed and respawning.

[Obtena.7952]

@Atomos.7593 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:why wouldn't you want to fight players in WvW anyway? Isn't that the whole point of the mode?

NO, the point of the mode is to score points. There are many ways to score points, only some of which involve killing enemies.

There are many reasons to avoid enemies, for example running back to teammates, particularly if you're running as a support build. Fighting in a group is something even non-twitchy players can do, which means you don't need to be the best player in the world, which means that it's an option available to normal/bad players which allows them to have fun with other players - so that's why the people running from spawn don't want to mess about with some gank-built 1v1 specialist. Or, as is more frequent recently, a group of five people who only jump on smaller numbers.

I doubt Anet designed an entire mode involving players killing each other so that people could rack up points.

Funny .. the evidence is that WvW exists to prove it. We can debate all we want why it was added ... but the real discussion is what Warclaw allows a player to do in WvW.

[Atomos.7593]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:why wouldn't you want to fight players in WvW anyway? Isn't that the whole point of the mode?

NO, the point of the mode is to score points. There are many ways to score points, only some of which involve killing enemies.

There are many reasons to avoid enemies, for example running back to teammates, particularly if you're running as a support build. Fighting in a group is something even non-twitchy players can do, which means you don't need to be the best player in the world, which means that it's an option available to normal/bad players which allows them to have fun with other players - so that's why the people running from spawn don't want to mess about with some gank-built 1v1 specialist. Or, as is more frequent recently, a group of five people who only jump on smaller numbers.

I doubt Anet designed an entire mode involving players killing each other so that people could rack up points.

Funny .. the evidence is that WvW exists to prove it. We can debate all we want why it was added ... but the real discussion is what Warclaw allows a player to do in WvW.

You seem to have missed my point. Killing players also gets points so this was obviously meant to happen...

Of course that's the real discussion, and we are discussing it lol.

[frareanselm.1925]

@Mewcifer.5198 said:Wanting the warclaw to be a little better in PvE is not a need it is purely a personal desire. If you wanna ask anet to buff it because you want to ride around on a big cat in PvE without feeling like you are wasting too much time, sure, ask for that. But don't also ask them to code in a bunch of PvE unique abilities for it as well.

And do not present it as if it is something the game needs.

Wanting the warclaw to be better is not a desire its balance according to the other mounts. Every mount has a little situational advantage over others. Warclaw is jus a slow obese cat that cannot even jump properly.

[Mewcifer.5198]

@frareanselm.1925 said:

@Mewcifer.5198 said:Wanting the warclaw to be a little better in PvE is not a

need

it is purely a

personal desire

. If you wanna ask anet to buff it because you want to ride around on a big cat in PvE without feeling like you are wasting too much time, sure, ask for that. But don't also ask them to code in a bunch of PvE unique abilities for it as well.

And do not present it as if it is something the game

needs

.

Wanting the warclaw to be better is not a desire its balance according to the other mounts. Every mount has a little situational advantage over others. Warclaw is jus a slow obese cat that cannot even jump properly.

Warclaw already has it's situational advantage. It is called WvW.

[DaFishBob.6518]

It also has another advantage, highest hp of all mounts.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Could we make it so that it doesn't default to it when you go back to pve thanks?

[Atomos.7593]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:Could we make it so that it doesn't default to it when you go back to pve thanks?

That would be a great simple change since the warclaw is pretty useless in pve anyway.

@DaFishBob.6518 said:It also has another advantage, highest hp of all mounts.

True. However, mount HP is pretty negligent in PvE now anyway since the skyscale allows you to avoid most enemies and you can use the bond of life mastery to gain a ton of health on all the mounts when you are in danger.

[Jagblade.4627]

I have only been lurking this thread but out of all the games (particularly MMOs) I've played in the last twenty years I have never before seen so many people actively argue against additional content or the refinement of content already in place, holy kitten. Keep the acquisition of the mount the way it is but I see absolutely no problem with allowing the Warclaw to at the very least run as fast as the Jackal or Raptor does. It doesn't need any special flare in my opinion, but if they see fit to add something that's fine too.

I really don't see how someone wanting a mount they worked for to be not useless outside of WvW affects anyone else at all. Let them have their cake, or their flavor mount in this case. I imagine that if the Warclaw was exclusive WvW only and couldn't be used outside of it these people would argue against allowing its use in the open world at all. In fact, I'll bet that these same people threw a hissy fit when they heard the devs were devoting resources to allow the skimmer to be used underwater.

I do not have a Warclaw nor do I want one, but why does it hurt anyone if the mount's PvE use is slightly buffed if they still have to work just as hard as anyone else to acquire it?