The Warclaw Needs Some Love ( in PVE ) - [Merged]

[LucianDK.8615]

The warclaw have -no- role in pve. Outclassed by both the raptor and jackal. Its wvw and should stay wvw

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Cyninja.2954 said:Wanting the Warclaw better in PvE is just that: a desire and no necessity.This is a useless argument. I could name thousands of things that have been added to the game that weren't necessary. The game itself isn't a necessity. The whole point of adding things to the game is to make the game more enjoyable to a significant subset of players. If they can make that work for the Warclaw, go for it.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Wanting the Warclaw better in PvE is just that: a desire and no necessity.This is a useless argument. I could name thousands of things that have been added to the game that weren't necessary. The game itself isn't a necessity. The whole point of adding things to the game is to make the game more enjoyable to a significant subset of players. If they can make that work for the Warclaw, go for it.

and I have given 2 very reasonable points as to why changing this is might be detrimental to the game or cause future complaints. As such, the way I see it, it is not in the games favor to buff the Warclaw for PvE.

That is without even getting into any arguments about mount identity and not copy pasting similar abilities across mounts.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Wanting the Warclaw better in PvE is just that: a desire and no necessity.This is a useless argument. I could name thousands of things that have been added to the game that weren't necessary. The game itself isn't a necessity. The whole point of adding things to the game is to make the game more enjoyable to a significant subset of players. If they can make that work for the Warclaw, go for it.

and I have given 2 very reasonable points as to why changing this is might be detrimental to the game or cause future complaints. As such, the way I see it, it is not in the games favor to buff the Warclaw for PvE.

That is without even getting into any arguments about mount identity and not copy pasting similar abilities across mounts.You'll have noticed I put a strong disclaimer in my previous post ("If they can make it work"). If the devs listened to the people who can't think of how things could work for the game, we wouldn't have mounts at all.

The only available in WvW issue is a non-starter for me. Stuff being restricted to specific modes has been a thing since launch. Why stop now? And indeed they haven't yet.

[Svarty.8019]

@Mil.3562 said:Now that the kitty is near to useless in WvW, at least buff it in PVE mode. The Warclaw being the only mount (and a crippled one) in WvW and also the slowest and most useless in PVE, please give the poor cat some love. Make it run a little faster, leap further, jump higher and perhaps give the pitiful never-ending-nerf-bat-beaten kitty some unique skills like the ability to auto-leap over low ledges, rocks and other small obstacles. Only in PVE of course. After all, we are paying the same amount of money for its skin like the rest of the mounts. If you put the cat in PVE mode, give us a reason to want to use it.

It might be slower than a thief on foot.It might be slower than ANYBODY at walking up stairs. Slower than a Dalek, nerds, hue hue hue..But it's not useless, it's a small bag of bonus health points!

[Danikat.8537]

I'm fine with the warclaw being useless in PvE because it means players who don't want to ever go into WvW aren't missing out by not having it. I know you already have to (sort of) play WvW for the Gift of Battle but I think that's ok because a legendary weapon is almost entirely cosmetic. If you don't want to do WvW you can get exactly the same functionality from ascended weapons.

That's not the case with mounts since they all move slightly differently. The only way to make the warclaw useful in PvE without making players feel like they have to get it even if they don't want to play WvW is to make it an exact clone of another mount (most likely the raptor or jackal)...and then we're right back to it being useless again, because what's the point in having a second mount that does exactly the same thing as one you've already got?

Also even though I'm almost entirely a PvE player and rarely play WvW myself I think it's nice that they actually got something which is specifically designed as a WvW feature for once. The vast majority of stuff in this game is presented as PvE features, some of which will also work in other game modes. It's a nice change to have something which was made specifically for WvW instead and I don't think there's any harm in doing that. I understand it's hard when you're used to everything being for you, and maybe other people can use it as well, to see something added which is explicitly not for you, but it's not actually a bad thing, just different.

[Xervite.5493]

If warclaw is meant to be useless in pve why not just remove it and shorten the pve mount list? Just like in wvw where you cant see other mounts.

[Atomos.7593]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@Mil.3562 said:Now that the kitty is near to useless in WvW, at least buff it in PVE mode. The Warclaw being the only mount (and a crippled one) in WvW and also the slowest and most useless in PVE, please give the poor cat some love. Make it run a little faster, leap further, jump higher and perhaps give the pitiful never-ending-nerf-bat-beaten kitty some unique skills like the ability to auto-leap over low ledges, rocks and other small obstacles. Only in PVE of course. After all, we are paying the same amount of money for its skin like the rest of the mounts. If you put the cat in PVE mode, give us a reason to want to use it.

It might be slower than a thief on foot.It might be slower than ANYBODY at walking up stairs. Slower than a Dalek, nerds, hue hue hue..But it's not useless, it's a small bag of bonus health points!

You forgot how useful the warclaw is in WvW for avoiding fighting other players. :p

@Xervite.5493 said:If warclaw is meant to be useless in pve why not just remove it and shorten the pve mount list? Just like in wvw where you cant see other mounts.

Yeah personally I would have preferred this. Right now it just creates an annoyance where when you leave WvW you still have the warclaw equipped in the mount slot (at least sometimes). The only reason that I can see for how the warclaw has been added to PvE is to show off skins.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Substance E.4852 said:

@"Kiasalfrus.1974" said:The Warclaw is definitely useful in WvW. It moves faster than any player with buffs could, and provides that speed to allies with the upgrades. It's sniff ability is great for detecting hidden enemies (though I believe it's only visible to the person who used the skill.) You can dismount enemy players to make it easier to hunt them down (which sucks to be on the receiving end of but I'm sure it's fun otherwise), and pulling on gates is just fun in my opinion. I don't see how any of that could translate into PvE, save sharing speed buffs, but most players would be on the faster mounts anyway, unless you're playing with free accounts. What skills do you exactly want the Warclaw to have in PvE? Long jumps? Raptor. Lots of quick jumps? Jackal, though it's close enough anyway. All mounts have a niche they fill, and the Warclaw's is in WvW.

The jump is already a functional clone of the raptor jump it just doesn't go even half the distance making it obsolete in comparison

Making it go the same distance would have no impact on mount """balance"""" (skyscale already threw that in the trash anyway) and would present more cosmetic variety which is good for the player experience and good for Anet's wallet

There's no possible argument against making it better other than mindless platitudes about how it wasn't "meant for pve" which seems especially silly now that Anet forces pve only players to gamble against getting one of it's skins with mount licenses now

Imagine being a dyed in the wool carebear, dropping $5 on a lottery box, and getting a warclaw skin

Not a carebear and I got 2 warclaw skins last night! The thunder and ice ones.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Cyninja.2954 said:A second one would be that any future changes to the mount, and this mount has seen multiple changes in a rather short amount of time compared to other mounts, is easier if the mounts main purpose remains WvW.

I used to ascribe to that belief, and it was what ANET said originally at the time of the mount release, and yet the Warclaw has seen multiple changes in WvW while remaining pretty much the same in PvE. In fact in PvE, the Warclaw is now faster than it is in WvW - and I'm fine with the changes made in WvW, but there is no reason to not fiddle with the mount in PvE. So long as the Warclaw Mastery is what ANET uses to tune the mount, and said mastery doesn't work outside of WvW, ANET has free reign to do whatever they want to the mount in WvW without it impacting PvE.

At this point, who cares if PvE'ers use it. The only thing ANET has to make sure is that it doesn't eclipse the Raptor, but if this means new players who own PoF can get a mount without having to boost and skip the story, why should I care?

Now should ANET expend resources on this? No, because they have a backlog of things that are way more important and impactful to the game that remain unresolved....but as this issue ties directly to PvE'ers and mountfits, I'm sure it will be addressed before long.

[aspirine.6852]

Warclaw should not even work in pve.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:At this point, who cares if PvE'ers use it. The only thing ANET has to make sure is that it doesn't eclipse the Raptor, but if this means new players who own PoF can get a mount without having to boost and skip the story, why should I care?

Yet this entire thread is exactly about that: buffing the Warclaw and I doubt buffing it to remain the weakest mount in PvE is what people are talking about.

What, you think people will stop demanding buffs if it remains slightly weaker than the Raptor? No, then they will demand it be made exactly like the Raptor. There are even suggestions in this thread to mimic the Raptors abilities on the Warclaw.

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:Now should ANET expend resources on this? No, because they have a backlog of things that are way more important and impactful to the game that remain unresolved....but as this issue ties directly to PvE'ers and mountfits, I'm sure it will be addressed before long.

I didn't bring the resource argument up because that could be said about a lot of things, but sure, this warrants no resources at this point in time, I agree.

There is 1 good argument for the developers to make the Warclaw better in PvE: make money off of it by selling a ton of skins to PvE players. That's it imo.

[Teratus.2859]

It's been severely crippled in WvW thanks to constant nerfs and there are still people there who think it needs even more nerfs.

Warclaw is a WvW mount.. but the more nerfed down it gets the less relevance it will have there, so I have to agree with OP..If the Warclaw isn't going to be a major feature of WvW then at least make it better in PvE so it can function as a First Mount for core players.

Outside of a generic speed boost I really don't see much use for Warclaw in WvW now.Rarely do I see them yanking on gates anymore and since they removed the downed stomp their 1 skill really doesn't do all that much.. not to mention their mobility was one of the first things to take a hit.Sniff can't even detect Stealthed enemies which is just stupid.

Nah, if Warclaw aint allowed to be good in the game mode it was designed for then at least make it better and more accessable in PvE so it can act as a useful First Mount end game goal for core players.

[Randulf.7614]

It's now utterly useless in WvW. I get outrun by those on foot now. A real shame since it was a nice idea that just needed some balancing, not a complete nuking. They might as well delete it from there and make it a proper pve mount and make it usable in areas like Drizzlewood

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

I like the fact that every mount has its niche and I get to use all of them. Some more than others, but still... It would be bad to make the Warclaw compete directly with the other PvE mounts.

That being said, I would like the Warclaw to provide a stronger version of its AoE speed-boost in PvE. Something like 50 people perma superspeed at 600 range. It wouldn't make the Warclaw compete with the other mounts for solo traveling, but it could have a serious spot in PvE squads and meta events.

[Taril.8619]

Having the Warclaw be improved in PvE could be interesting.

It could also be combined with a way to work on the Warclaw Collection in PvE too, to mitigate the "I dun wanna do WvW!" crowd that percieve it as a "Necessity" for whatever reason.

For example, increase its base movement speed up to 600 to match the Raptor. Then let Warclaw's Blessing activate faster and also provide a boost to the Warclaw's speed per player affected by it (Up to a cap of say 700-750 or something).

Whack in an extra bonus of something like "Players share participation progress for x seconds after being affected by Warclaw's Blessing"

And voila. You have yourself a new niche mount, that works well for doing metas and event dailies. That also bypasses the common complaints about mounts (I.e. The "I can't get to events because people with mounts get there too fast" and "I can't get participation because Raptor insta-nukes every event")

While still being usable when solo (Especially if mount lines functioned properly. I.e. Getting the 3rd endurance bar from Warclaw Mastery 3. Getting the global buffs from PvE mounts final masteries)

[Super Hayes.6890]

@Xervite.5493 said:If warclaw is meant to be useless in pve why not just remove it and shorten the pve mount list? Just like in wvw where you cant see other mounts.

I'm actually surprised it wasn't done like this in the first place. I like having it in PvE though. If they matched its function to the jackal or the raptor in PvE only it would be a fun alternative to either mount. These arguments to keep it WvW only don't hold any ground except for the ones about where development time should be spent. It certainly doesn't need to change for PvE only but it could be a lot of fun if it did. Who cares if PvE players get something different in the warclaw. The only relevant arguments I see here deal with Anet resources and only Anet knows the costs of implementing our suggestions.

[Josiah.2967]

If you buff the Warclaw to the point it is used in PVE, PVE players will be upset. I don't think the Warclaw should be usable in PVE in the first place, that would of eliminated this request.

[Naxos.2503]

I should say, one of the upside of the warclaw in PvE is that you can get it with Path of Fire, without doing the storyline for it, making it an excellent beginner mounts spoiler-free. I helped one of my guildie get it, and now she can stick to our group while we travel around the map with ease

[Obtena.7952]

@Mil.3562 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:The warclaw is indeed pretty slow in WvW now but that's ok imo since it allows people who haven't unlocked it to catch up with groups a bit easier. However it is totally useless in PvE in its current state. All the other land mounts like the raptor, jackal, springer and skimmer are superior to it not only in speed but also in terms of the skills the mounts have.

Exactly my point. Thank you. You got it but the other obviously did not.

That's not exactly your point ... he's saying Warclaw is NOT useless in WvW, which is part of your argument to buff it in PVE. :astonished:

And no, Warclaw doesn't NEED love in PVE. There is no need.

[Zephyr.5382]

How about incorporating some of the mechanics from the scrapped spider mount? Or using the Chain Pull skill to function like the Oakheart's Reach skill for...stuff?

Here's the thread discussing said spider mount, for reference.

Or how about making it a purely offensive mount? The superiority fighter mount, if you will.

[Wolfb.7025]

Warclaw is a wvw specific mount. If anything they could have made it wvw exclusive and unable to mount it on pve. But they left it on pve just for cosmetic purposes.

[Teratus.2859]

@Naxos.2503 said:I should say, one of the upside of the warclaw in PvE is that you can get it with Path of Fire, without doing the storyline for it, making it an excellent beginner mounts spoiler-free. I helped one of my guildie get it, and now she can stick to our group while we travel around the map with ease

That's great to hear, I've long been vocal about having the Warclaw as a beginner mount by making it accessable to everyone with the core game.There is no mastery line for it like other mounts so im sure Anet could make that work.

As you said now your friend can keep up with mounted groups even with Warclaws diminished speed and if you guys play WvW she can do the same there too.It's a great beginners mount that could solve some annoying issues players without mounts have to deal with, it's a shame it's just not accessable enough thanks to being locked to PoF.It should be a core game mount that can serve as a big end game reward and enticement for people to try WvW.

[kharmin.7683]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Naxos.2503 said:I should say, one of the upside of the warclaw in PvE is that you can get it with Path of Fire, without doing the storyline for it, making it an excellent beginner mounts spoiler-free. I helped one of my guildie get it, and now she can stick to our group while we travel around the map with ease

That's great to hear, I've long been vocal about having the Warclaw as a beginner mount by making it accessable to everyone with the core game.There is no mastery line for it like other mounts so im sure Anet could make that work.

As you said now your friend can keep up with mounted groups even with Warclaws diminished speed and if you guys play WvW she can do the same there too.It's a great beginners mount that could solve some annoying issues players without mounts have to deal with, it's a shame it's just not accessable enough thanks to being locked to PoF.It should be a core game mount that can serve as a big end game reward and enticement for people to try WvW.

I thought obtaining the warclaw through WvW was supposed to be the enticement for people to try that WvW? Giving new players a warclaw and hoping that they will try WvW doesn't seem like it will work out so well, in my opinion.

[Teratus.2859]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Naxos.2503 said:I should say, one of the upside of the warclaw in PvE is that you can get it with Path of Fire, without doing the storyline for it, making it an excellent beginner mounts spoiler-free. I helped one of my guildie get it, and now she can stick to our group while we travel around the map with ease

That's great to hear, I've long been vocal about having the Warclaw as a beginner mount by making it accessable to everyone with the core game.There is no mastery line for it like other mounts so im sure Anet could make that work.

As you said now your friend can keep up with mounted groups even with Warclaws diminished speed and if you guys play WvW she can do the same there too.It's a great beginners mount that could solve some annoying issues players without mounts have to deal with, it's a shame it's just not accessable enough thanks to being locked to PoF.It should be a core game mount that can serve as a big end game reward and enticement for people to try WvW.

I thought obtaining the warclaw through WvW was supposed to be the enticement for people to try that WvW? Giving new players a warclaw and hoping that they will try WvW doesn't seem like it will work out so well, in my opinion.

You misunderstood me.

Warclaw would still have to be earned by playing WvW, the only thing that will change is that you wouldn't need PoF to access it anymore.So anyone with a paid or free2play copy of Gw2 would be able to unlock this 1 mount by playing WvW, hence the enticement to try WvW.

Atm the only enticement to try WvW is if you are interested in competitive play which a great deal of Gw2 players are not these days.I used to be the same too, still not a fan of competitive modes tbh and I avoided WvW for years once they finally removed the map comp requirement for world completion.But I started playing WvW after Warclaw was introduced becuase I found the mode a lot more fun with it, thanks largely to the mobility it granted which made getting around the maps much faster and significantly less tedious.Now I pretty much do all my dailies there because it's quick, easy and fun.