Make a balancing subforum and let only Plat & above post in it

[GuriGashi.5617]

Idea is simple, too many unskilled players are confusing Anet by constantly crying about stuff, that actually isn‘t strong. I feel like taking part in balancing issues should only be allowed at a certain skill level, meaning if you reached Plat 1 to Legendary in your last season. Letting people in lower divisions take part in such important decisions will just further ruin the quality of the meta, because most of them don‘t know what they are actually talking about

[Markri.9475]

why so low as plat 1? thats hardly a requirement of skill, or knowledge about balance.You could have started at top250. Though top 100 would mean more.I'm against the idea though, as even top players don't know how to get balance done on a whole.

[GuriGashi.5617]

@Markri.9475 said:why so low as plat 1? thats hardly a requirement of skill, or knowledge about balance.You could have started at top250. Though top 100 would mean more.I'm against the idea though, as even top players don't know how to get balance done on a whole.

I chose specifically Plat 1, since Plat 2 and above would basically mean only Top 100 players would be allowed in to take place in balancing issues and it could therefore be heavily exploited by strong teams, who usually place quite high. I think Plat 1 would be a great compromise, since it is close anyways to Top 250.And I agree even some plat players don‘t know what is going on, but an average plat player has generally more understanding of the game than a silver player, it is just facts or divisions as a whole would make no sense

[Lucentfir.7430]

That's not very nice, trying to make a plat exclusive club so you can keep all the good may mays to yourself :<

[Asuran.5469]

Problem with this, IE:

• The other day I counted the amount of p2 in NA, it was 28. None of these players aside from myself even post in this forum.
• The amount of p1 in NA is roughly double that of p2, maybe of which 3 or 4 of those players even post in this forum.

[GuriGashi.5617]

@Asuran.5469 said:Problem with this, IE:

• The other day I counted the amount of p2 in NA, it was 28. None of these players aside from myself even post in this forum.
• The amount of p1 in NA is roughly double that of p2, maybe of which 3 or 4 of those players even post in this forum.

Thats actually a good critique, I haven't thought of that - even more of a reason to have the requirements set at P1 or G3.

[GuriGashi.5617]

@Lucentfir.7430 said:That's not very nice, trying to make a plat exclusive club so you can keep all the good may mays to yourself :<

Yes you could look at it like that, but I think preventing the damage people do, who play mostly just one class and have a limited understanding of the game, has priority. It is ridiculous to see how build diversity has gone to 0, because of unjustified & unresearched critique

[Khalisto.5780]

Lmao

Confusing?

Anet is actually the one with data on what's winning more on each bracket, there is no way to get confused here.

They now what to balance maybe they get confused on how to balance it

I'd actually balance the game for the base of the pyramid and not the top, to keep them playing.

i know the top players will keep playing cuz they have to gatekeep their titles and gizmos

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I think you're a bit optimistic if you think they read the forum. Most balancing decisions seem to happen in regards to either metrics or talks with players on other mediums, which in the past was mainly Reddit, although I hear that's become scarce too.

[Axl.8924]

I disagree with this because some of the folks even at plat2 and 1 might have ideas and biases towards a class that can get it nerfed.

Not all but some possibly. Do listen to people who know the class itself like ranger experts before balancing it or ele masters or mesmer masters.

[DoomNexus.5324]

I'd appreciate a dedicated balance subforum but not limited to plat1/2 or above.I've played a couple seasons in ~plat2 (was even top100 at some point and played against sindrener and other legends/high plat) and I can say that even in there, there are still quite a few people who just don't know how to play conquest.Additionally I think a huge issue of getting out of gold/into plat is actually poor understanding of conquest or bad luck. Mainly poor rotations and decision making in general or just being unlucky and getting into a bad matchup (your team comp having a hard time against the enemy comp, not actually because of unbalanced player skill). Bad matchups being the easier one to fix by just swapping classes that play better into the enemy team but... meh.All of which has nothing to do with balance. Actually I don't think there's no big difference in how mechanically skilled players are between gold 2 and plat 2. It mainly comes down to someone in your team having "superior tactics" like constantly contesting far while they have a roamer in the team and failing to recognize that they actually deny their own roamer by actively pulling attention to all 3 nodes, making it impossible to sneak-decap and return to the team fight, while also leaving the rest of the team outnumbered on the other 2 nodes. Stuff like that.

Also: In my experience matchups in silver/gold to some extent are completely different. Often people q_q about condi meta for example with other people dismissing everything by stating that it's (still) a power meta.. I think that mainly stems from different skill groups. There simply are a lot more condi builds in silver/gold than there are in plat. I don't want to theorize why this is or whether or not this is true for a large sample size/across the entire population but I've definitely felt like this is the case.So this is just a thing to keep in mind and also a question of opinion. You could argue that a competitive game (mode) should always be balanced to the top 1% of the game where everyone below should strive to get as good as them and utilizing a class' full potential and where every complaint they have can be downgraded to a l2p-issue.Alternatively: You could also argue that since GW2 is primarily focused on pleasing casuals and Anet showing no interest in keeping their playerbase active, that they continue following their own paradigm and balance according to the vast majority of players which would be mainly silver3-gold2. I'd definitely prefer the first option but this is probably just not how GW2 works and Anet envisions their game to be.

[Downstate.4697]

The game doesnt need to be balanced. It needs frequent updates to keep the meta interesting.

[Armen.1483]

Balance means balance for everyone. There are lots of players below plat that also need balance. Let's take some examples: power renegade being a class somewhat difficult to play at its full potential is kinda ok to deal with in unranked or low tiers, but when a player skilled enough with the class takes it, it becomes nightmare to play against. The opposite with burn guardians that dominate low tiers, but easily countered when skilled. Many other examples like that.

[Kachros.4751]

To be blunt, this is a bad idea. If you want the game to have a competitive edge it would mean that it needs to be balanced as possible which even "high" tier players cant comprehend sometimes. If you want to balance the game in a way that makes it more enjoyable for the majority of the community (being low tier) it would be different. Anet cannot make both sides happy as they current stand due to the game state being, what seems to be, irreparable. The people at lower tiers complain about "noob hunting" builds such as burn dh which is not an issue for high tier players. However even high tier players complained about thief, which most low tier players said it was weak. Lastly, being plat 2/3 doesnt define knowledge or skill at the present moment. I see many players in plat 2 or above that are just following the broken classes and in fact are pretty much clueless about everything else.

[Math.5123]

This already exists.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Math.5123 said:This already exists.

It's this one right here we are posting in now.

A balance subforum would also just be filled with the junk we have now here. Nerf this, remove that, buff this, do what I want or your game will fail etc.

Wouldn't really serve a purpose inho.

[Shao.7236]

It would be better if we had biases aside and really talked about problems directly without stepping out of the things that can be really done, like working within the limitations of the dev time and engine itself.

From what I have learned, people care little for balance and prefer flexing around.

I've wrote a dedicated Rev post for suggestions based on my experience but there has yet to be another from anyone, if anything most subs have nothing to would hint devs in a direction.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@FrownyClown.8402 said:The game doesnt need to be balanced. It needs frequent updates to keep the meta interesting.

I agree with this.

But I can add that the frequent updates should be balanced updates.

We should not be getting updates where 1 or 2 classes become S+ tier whilst everything else is A- B+ at best. It's acceptable to have like 3 or 4 S tiers amongst mostly A tiers and maybe a few Bs, but it just annoys everyone when 1 or 2 builds are S+ tiers, then you have 1 A tier, and then everyone else is B or C <- That's just a really imbalanced patching and it isn't fun.

[Cynz.9437]

There are problems with this suggestion: majority of players are not plat 2/3 (for good reason). If the game is balanced around ONLY opinion of top players (and it has been from time to time) it won't improve experience of the majority of pvp community AND there still will be some really broken builds out there because (newsflash!) top players are just as biased as your average silver/bronze player (shout out to Helseth).

[Falan.1839]

The sad truth is that while higher rated players usually have a better understanding of the game, they are at least equally biased towards their preferred classes and builds, so their suggestions often aren't much better than "I got rolled by XYZ nerf pls".

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Honestly anet shouldn't be looking to its players for balance decisions at all. Their the "professional" game developers who get hired and paid to do a job, balancing, reworks and maintaining the game ie bug fixes, skill fixes etc are part of that job. Anet needs to balance and rework their classes to adhere to their vision and design they had for each class than do their best to adjust each one to coexist within the roster in a way that provides as much of a balanced experience as they can, or at least continually strive to do so along side other content releases. If they listened to the community more than half of the classes would no longer even play like the archetypes their designed after. Anets should only be looking at forum's for info on things that need quick fixes like bugs or skill/traits not functioning as advertised, the rest should be acquired through them actually playing the modes themselves enough to get the data needed.

[Leonidrex.5649]

in eu bot can get p1 so its not much of a challenge, and thoughts of a low ranking pleb can be valid too, its a job of a balance team to read through all the non-sense and know what has merit and what doesnt.

[Dadnir.5038]

Such subforum would probably bring nothing much on the table. "High ranking" players often don't suggest better idea than "low ranking" one.

If I recall correctly, a great part of the "high ranking" players advocated for the majority of the changes that brought sPvP where it is now, they were even satisfied by the result for a week to a month. I think, once, I've even seen one basically say "Sorry I was wrong to suggest that..." after the change were made.

[ollbirtan.2915]

No need for this. 'Shadow' meetings between that one elusive pvp dev and the pvp elite club already take place on a certain discord.

[Arheundel.6451]

@"snoow.1694" said:Idea is simple, too many unskilled players are confusing Anet by constantly crying about stuff, that actually isn‘t strong. I feel like taking part in balancing issues should only be allowed at a certain skill level, meaning if you reached Plat 1 to Legendary in your last season. Letting people in lower divisions take part in such important decisions will just further ruin the quality of the meta, because most of them don‘t know what they are actually talking about

Ever heard of the Discord Shadow Meetings ?

Ever heard of that quote from a dev : Revenant is a class played by the best players and best players tend to win?

......1+1=2

What you propose has already been happening for years, statistics and winrate got very little to do with the actual balancing because again...here another quote from the dev...:if we look at the winrate by class...then DragonHunter would have been....yeah.....he meant to say gutted, something that never happened

So yeah they do not balance based solely (if at all ) on statistics...they "mostly follow suggestions" from those same "elites" you describe....

P.S if you think players of any shape or form can balance a game...then you're sadly mistaken, at best MMO players can point the devs in the direction of a visible exploit or broken design...nothing more than that, anything more would simply be biased banterPersonally I can try to see things from a broader perspective when asking to nerf things..but I think that as a player that's not possible, even the devs themselves can be a "tad biased" on their end....the idea of really considering the balance "suggestions" of a player should be carefully executed..always