Is anyone else disappointed that Aurene was brought back to life?

[Aodlop.1907]

I remember the story unfolding back then.

First, Aurene had the many visions of her dying to Kralk and it was an emotional moment, with all the doubt and despair that cames with it.

We thought: it's a lighthearted story overall, surely she'll find a way to escape her fate. Then the moment came, she DID die and it was really well executed with the commander slowly walking towards her not knowing what to expect, and seeing her suddenly impaled in spikes. When it all happened, I thought: "kitten, they actually committed, it takes some serious balls. Well done Anet!"

But then, just like Thanos' snap, it was all undone and the emotional impact was cheapened and ruined. 

I wish she had stayed dead, and we'd found some other way to deal with Kralk. 

[Jin.8501]

Yep, disappointing. They rushed Joko off so we got this predictable lame moment 

[kharmin.7683]

Nice spoiler.  😡

[Jobber.6348]

I'm disappointed with everything leading up to an interaction with an Elder Dragon after LW3. 
Mordremoth was the last epic Elder Dragon. 
 

[Westenev.5289]

Kinda wish we got more Joko, tbh. BRAISE JOKO!

 

I kinda agree about Aurine. Maybe bringing her back 2 minutes after she "died" (assuming you're playing episode 5-6 back to back) is a bit too soon.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Westenev.5289

[kharmin.7683]

Not really surprising, though, since there were so many who thought that she was cute.  I never understood that.  Ugliest "dragon" that I've seen in my 30+ years of fantasy gaming.  But that's just my opinion.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

I was disappointed in the way she was brought back, as well as how it was the first thing that happened in that LS chapter, though I suppose on what with how much else was packed into that chapter making the resurrection later may simply not have been feasible.

[Aodlop.1907]

3 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Mordremoth was the last epic Elder Dragon. 

Yes, but I'm still unsatisfied with his appearance in the final fight, where we fight his chubby troll avatar. The monster that killed Eir and Faolain was more frightening than Mordremoth's actual avatar.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Aodlop.1907

[Kossage.9072]

I don't really mind Aurene resurrecting as they happened to have a good enough reason for it; however, the execution of it wasn't to my liking as we really needed an episode in between 5 and 6 where the Commander could've been made aware of the lich powers and that we needed to enact a specific ritual to help her with her first resurrection, so the Commander would've played a more active role via a journey to the Mists/Domain of the Lost/dragon afterlife to find Aurene's soul or some relevant information and lead it back to her body. Having an episode to mull over Aurene's demise would've also left us in a desperate "darkest hour" moment before we set out to defy fate and actually end up fulfilling the prophecy and why the bond between dragon and champion was crucial for Glint's plan to succeed to begin with.

 

It would've been a nice way to also explore how liches are made in Tyrian verse (some seemed to have ties to Abaddon's forbidden writings in Joko, Khilbron and arguably Fendi Nin's case, but we've never been told much beyond that) as well as wrap up the still lingering GW1 plot point of the immortal Hunter still hunting for the GW1 Hero in the Mists, and the fate  and redemption of surviving Forged in Elona if we had to travel to the Great Margonite Temple in the Desolation to seek Joko's hidden Abaddon scriptures there to learn more about how lich resurrections work for first-time liches.

 

I could've seen us exploring a plot where we seek out the Abaddon scriptures in the Great Margonite Temple where the Branded are invading in search of magic. We run into the surviving Forged, led by the still unseen General of the Burning Forest, and maybe we can win them over with Zafirah and the Zaishen's help. The journey could've ultimately led us to the Mists if we found out that something is keeping Aurene's soul in a kind of limbo so she can't resurrect unless we free her soul. Perhaps we could've gotten this information from Zhaitan's ghost, thus finally giving the now Torment-less Elder Dragon of Death and Shadow a voice and character in the afterlife even if our encounter with Zhaitan could be as dangerous as Aang seeking spiritual knowledge from the nefarious Koh the Face-Stealer in Avatar: The Last Airbender.

 

Thus we'd run into the Hunter, who may be the one blocking Aurene's return via sensing the Commander's scent on her soul and mistakes it for GW1 hero's. The Hunter could then sense the approaching Commander and the GW1 hero's aura around them (as certain NPCs comment on how there's an odd similarity between the Hero and Commander in GW2, so the devs could play around with the nature of this connection between the two heroes of different eras). Ultimately we'd find a way to either defeat or further confuse the Hunter (who wishes to finish the hunt it began back in Nightfall) and leading Aurene's soul back to her body. 

 

This episode 5.5 plot could then lead to the current Episode 6 beginning with our hope being crushed when Aurene doesn't resurrect anyway despite all our efforts. Events continue as we've already seen with us thinking that the end is truly nigh and Zhaitan and Abaddon's instructions were false hope. And then we come to the realization of the resonance of the Zephyrite choir and how the brand in Aurene's heart must first be removed so she can truly resurrect as we saw in the Ep6 instance. That way the transition from Ep5 and Ep6 would be more weigthy and make the Commander a more active participant while also closing some loose plot threads along the way (how Joko became a lich, what the origin of liches may be and if it's tied to Abaddon or not, potentially having a harrowing encounter with Zhaitan's ghost, and resolving the Hunter's last hunt) and giving a satisfactory resurrection for Aurene which has been properly set up instead of it coming out of nowhere (as the narrative director admitted they only came up with linking her resurrection to Joko's power after Episode 3 had already shipped).

 

As for the rest of the argument regarding Aurene's resurrection, I was of two minds back in the day regarding her returning to life or remaining as a ghost. On the one hand we only had one more episode to resolve the Kralk arc so with Aurene gone we would've had to find some deus ex machina solution to end him without endangering the All's balance, and on the other hand the prophet Glint could never see her death so Aurene seeing her final death via a vision would've been an odd anomaly in the crystal dragon family. Even Kralkatorrik didn't necessarily foresee how he would die, only that there would be a world without him, which is ambiguous enough and could be interpreted in many ways. If Glint couldn't see her own death coming, clearly Aurene's vision was never meant to depict her final death or else she wouldn't have seen it coming. If, however, Aurene could somehow see her true death (and not just a temporary death) via a prophetic vision, her powers would surpass Glint and Kralkatorrik's, and thus we'd need an explanation for why her visions are more accurate than any other crystal dragon's visions so far.

 

So, Aurene resurrecting makes sense and it was set up well enough even if it was only a happy accident in the writing room as it wasn't pre-planned from the beginning. Of course it does beg the question why the master of death like Zhaitan, who could literally pull souls from the Mists, couldn't simply resurrect after being shot with Professor Gorr's enhanced vacuumagic cannons, so the plot should have explored why Aurene eating a lich grants her special powers whereas other dragons seemingly never had the same power (suggesting that no other dragon ever ate a lich...unless they went with Plunt's explanation about Primordus's lack of hybrid minions in the saga that dragons eventually assimilate foreign magic into their own domain of magic so any lich magic gained by Elder Dragons would fade over time as it's assimilated into their system). 🙂

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

I'm less disappointed in the act of resurrecting Aurene, and more disappointed in how they resurrected her.

 

I remain adamant that both Season 3 and Season 4 required at least two, if not three, additional episodes. One of which for Season 4 needed to be between Episodes 5 and 6, to be a focus on how we could try to win despite Aurene's death. A futile struggle in the end, but finding that Aurene could be resurrected and bringing her back at the end.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Zola.6197]

I didn’t mind it, but like many have said I think there should’ve been more time between her death and resurrection. Give our character and companions more time to be affected by that loss.

[Dawnbreaker.4901]

Aurene is, and always has been a plot device.

 

The dragons exists so she can eat them. The best villains we've got exist so she can eat them.

 

Shiro's gonna pop out of the Jade Sea and Aurene will be chillin' on the beach waiting to eat him.

 

I'm being woefully facetious, if you couldn't tell.

 

[Psientist.6437]

I think Aurene died to reinforce her role in the story. Without her, all is lost.

 

I have no problem with the method of her resurrection. Limit Joko's lich powers so they only effect more normal flesh. His magic would have no effect on Elder Dragon flesh. Arguably, her resurrection required the Commander's store of dragon magic. The magi-physics or lore behind her resurrection is easily integrated into existing lore.

 

I can't stand how the writer's approached grief. I can't think of a more greasy example of anguish-porn.

 

edit:

Hind sight is 20/20 and the studio was having its guts opened during the release. I wouldn't want to do a fetch quest. It would stall story progression and it was too soon to reveal anything substainal about the All or anything related to Elder Dragon history or internal functioning. Worse, a fetch quest would measure Aurene's life with mcguffins.

 

I would have preferred a scare death rather than a resurrection. The pieces written and published online described the scene from the perspective of 3 witnesses. They could have established a much shorter timeline and a scene of unresolved commotion with Schrödinger's Aurene and the Commander at the center. The next episode opens with Aurene being freed from rubble and corruption. The Commander falls unconscious as their mind and is sucked into the Mists. Joko's magic has kept her in limbo, unable to bring her soul or consciousness back together. The PC Champion helps brings her together and leads her back to her body. We could repeat scenes from her childhood, fight something she fears. It could have been a powerful bonding experience that kept the PC protagonist in the spotlight.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Psientist.6437

[DXBLITZ.8734]

I definitely did not want her dead at all, would even have made me want to quit if she had stayed dead. Totally glad she is alive. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

I didn't want her dead at that time, but since she started calling me "Champion!" all the time in her annoyingly loud ringing voice I've revised my opinion!

 

[Urud.4925]

I don't think we needed more episodes before her resurrection. If you remember when we fought Joko, he was able to resurrect after few minutes, and she gained his power. Moreover some people, me included, already foresaw Aurene's resurrection in the forum, as it was quite obvious. Exploring a bit more about this power and the liches in general would have been nice, but if you played the episode back then, a couple of months of wait were enough for me. But if you play the story as returning player, I do agree that that strong emotion and feeling of loss evaporates immediately after few minutes.

[Dayra.7405]

19 minutes ago, Urud.4925 said:

if you played the episode back then, a couple of months of wait were enough for me. But if you play the story as returning player, I do agree that that strong emotion and feeling of loss evaporates immediately after few minutes.

This! For us she was dead 2 month and not just 2minutes.

[FiveBunnies.5730]

11 hours ago, Urud.4925 said:

I don't think we needed more episodes before her resurrection. If you remember when we fought Joko, he was able to resurrect after few minutes, and she gained his power. Moreover some people, me included, already foresaw Aurene's resurrection in the forum, as it was quite obvious. Exploring a bit more about this power and the liches in general would have been nice, but if you played the episode back then, a couple of months of wait were enough for me. But if you play the story as returning player, I do agree that that strong emotion and feeling of loss evaporates immediately after few minutes.

To me, she was dead for two minutes, but it was so sad. I cried until I saw her alive again and for a while after. I'm so glad she's alive.

[Bobby Stein.3612]

14 hours ago, Urud.4925 said:

but if you played the episode back then, a couple of months of wait were enough for me. But if you play the story as returning player, I do agree that that strong emotion and feeling of loss evaporates immediately after few minutes.

Yeah, this was one of those times where the lapse in time between episodes gave people several months to process and grieve. That you can play the episodes immediately one after the other now works against that.

It was something that was brought up during development (how it'd feel when released with this gap vs. how it'd feel when the entire season was available to binge all at once) but we were past the point where we could pivot. (Such is the reality of continuous live development.)

I agree that having her return at the top of the next episode can feel too abrupt in succession, whereas putting it later in that episode (or in the following one) would have given it more room to breathe.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

On 5/20/2023 at 5:19 PM, DXBLITZ.8734 said:

I definitely did not want her dead at all, would even have made me want to quit if she had stayed dead. Totally glad she is alive. 

You know. You really seem to hate things being dead. 

I mean you just revived a 2y old post. 

With your necro power, nobody needs to fear death. 🤔

[DanAlcedo.3281]

7 hours ago, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

Yeah, this was one of those times where the lapse in time between episodes gave people several months to process and grieve. That you can play the episodes immediately one after the other now works against that.

It was something that was brought up during development (how it'd feel when released with this gap vs. how it'd feel when the entire season was available to binge all at once) but we were past the point where we could pivot. (Such is the reality of continuous live development.)

I agree that having her return at the top of the next episode can feel too abrupt in succession, whereas putting it later in that episode (or in the following one) would have given it more room to breathe.

Why not add the thing you did at the end of EoD?

When we get teleported to DR and get the pop up *weeks later*. 

 

[quaniesan.8497]

You are not alone in thinking that. It's a thing associated with modern writing nowadays and it's a worrying trend. You see it in Hollywood too, with the famous line "No one's ever really gone".  Modern writers nowadays appear to be very timid when it comes to creating and handling impactful events' consequences and character losses. Script writers come up with flashy builds up, putting important characters  through all sorts of fatal incidents, and then these guys return to 100% health in the next sequel with the most convenient explanations.  Plot contrivances is the pathway to the many abilities some consider to be unnatural.

  Bringing back people who are supposed to be dead saves the writers the trouble of creating and building new OG characters while persevering fanfare assets,  or perhaps they are afraid of upsetting a small vocal minority of fans, but regardless it cheapens the emotion responses  as well as the stake of events in previous episodes.  When the audience no longer take the stakes in the story seriously knowing everyone will be fine,  i wonder if the price is worth the convienience.

Edited May 23, 2023 by quaniesan.8497

[Charybdizs.7490]

On 5/16/2021 at 3:07 PM, Kossage.9072 said:

I don't really mind Aurene resurrecting as they happened to have a good enough reason for it; however, the execution of it wasn't to my liking as we really needed an episode in between 5 and 6 where the Commander could've been made aware of the lich powers and that we needed to enact a specific ritual to help her with her first resurrection, so the Commander would've played a more active role via a journey to the Mists/Domain of the Lost/dragon afterlife to find Aurene's soul or some relevant information and lead it back to her body. Having an episode to mull over Aurene's demise would've also left us in a desperate "darkest hour" moment before we set out to defy fate and actually end up fulfilling the prophecy and why the bond between dragon and champion was crucial for Glint's plan to succeed to begin with.

 

It would've been a nice way to also explore how liches are made in Tyrian verse (some seemed to have ties to Abaddon's forbidden writings in Joko, Khilbron and arguably Fendi Nin's case, but we've never been told much beyond that) as well as wrap up the still lingering GW1 plot point of the immortal Hunter still hunting for the GW1 Hero in the Mists, and the fate  and redemption of surviving Forged in Elona if we had to travel to the Great Margonite Temple in the Desolation to seek Joko's hidden Abaddon scriptures there to learn more about how lich resurrections work for first-time liches.

 

I could've seen us exploring a plot where we seek out the Abaddon scriptures in the Great Margonite Temple where the Branded are invading in search of magic. We run into the surviving Forged, led by the still unseen General of the Burning Forest, and maybe we can win them over with Zafirah and the Zaishen's help. The journey could've ultimately led us to the Mists if we found out that something is keeping Aurene's soul in a kind of limbo so she can't resurrect unless we free her soul. Perhaps we could've gotten this information from Zhaitan's ghost, thus finally giving the now Torment-less Elder Dragon of Death and Shadow a voice and character in the afterlife even if our encounter with Zhaitan could be as dangerous as Aang seeking spiritual knowledge from the nefarious Koh the Face-Stealer in Avatar: The Last Airbender.

 

Thus we'd run into the Hunter, who may be the one blocking Aurene's return via sensing the Commander's scent on her soul and mistakes it for GW1 hero's. The Hunter could then sense the approaching Commander and the GW1 hero's aura around them (as certain NPCs comment on how there's an odd similarity between the Hero and Commander in GW2, so the devs could play around with the nature of this connection between the two heroes of different eras). Ultimately we'd find a way to either defeat or further confuse the Hunter (who wishes to finish the hunt it began back in Nightfall) and leading Aurene's soul back to her body. 

 

This episode 5.5 plot could then lead to the current Episode 6 beginning with our hope being crushed when Aurene doesn't resurrect anyway despite all our efforts. Events continue as we've already seen with us thinking that the end is truly nigh and Zhaitan and Abaddon's instructions were false hope. And then we come to the realization of the resonance of the Zephyrite choir and how the brand in Aurene's heart must first be removed so she can truly resurrect as we saw in the Ep6 instance. That way the transition from Ep5 and Ep6 would be more weigthy and make the Commander a more active participant while also closing some loose plot threads along the way (how Joko became a lich, what the origin of liches may be and if it's tied to Abaddon or not, potentially having a harrowing encounter with Zhaitan's ghost, and resolving the Hunter's last hunt) and giving a satisfactory resurrection for Aurene which has been properly set up instead of it coming out of nowhere (as the narrative director admitted they only came up with linking her resurrection to Joko's power after Episode 3 had already shipped).

 

As for the rest of the argument regarding Aurene's resurrection, I was of two minds back in the day regarding her returning to life or remaining as a ghost. On the one hand we only had one more episode to resolve the Kralk arc so with Aurene gone we would've had to find some deus ex machina solution to end him without endangering the All's balance, and on the other hand the prophet Glint could never see her death so Aurene seeing her final death via a vision would've been an odd anomaly in the crystal dragon family. Even Kralkatorrik didn't necessarily foresee how he would die, only that there would be a world without him, which is ambiguous enough and could be interpreted in many ways. If Glint couldn't see her own death coming, clearly Aurene's vision was never meant to depict her final death or else she wouldn't have seen it coming. If, however, Aurene could somehow see her true death (and not just a temporary death) via a prophetic vision, her powers would surpass Glint and Kralkatorrik's, and thus we'd need an explanation for why her visions are more accurate than any other crystal dragon's visions so far.

 

So, Aurene resurrecting makes sense and it was set up well enough even if it was only a happy accident in the writing room as it wasn't pre-planned from the beginning. Of course it does beg the question why the master of death like Zhaitan, who could literally pull souls from the Mists, couldn't simply resurrect after being shot with Professor Gorr's enhanced vacuumagic cannons, so the plot should have explored why Aurene eating a lich grants her special powers whereas other dragons seemingly never had the same power (suggesting that no other dragon ever ate a lich...unless they went with Plunt's explanation about Primordus's lack of hybrid minions in the saga that dragons eventually assimilate foreign magic into their own domain of magic so any lich magic gained by Elder Dragons would fade over time as it's assimilated into their system). 🙂

Speaking as a player of 10 years, I have come back to this post SEVERAL TIMES over the years since it was created, and every time I feel "WE WERE SO ROBBED" 😭😱
This time I feel compelled to comment, idec about the bump, not sorry LOL. I'm playing Season 4 with one of my besties and we just finished All or Nothing and she's shocked and amazed and surprised at the balls it took to make that story move happen. And meanwhile, I am LITERALLY STEELING MYSELF FOR THE INEVITABLE EMBARRASSMENT of the next chapter, when we start and Aurene is just like "lol im back i ate joko, ez"

I don't understand Bobby Stein's post; I don't know how something this glaring even got past the drawing board phase to make it to a point where it couldn't be pivoted from. Did they not even use their lorebible? Where was the quality control? What was the purpose of this all? Why kill a character if you then have to "figure out" a way to bring them back for the story you had intended writing? The quoted post has SO MANY good ideas, which are really in the spirit of the series.

I love Guild Wars 2, and frankly I'm obsessed with this story, even through some of the generally most-disliked moments, because I almost always feel a sense of "Well... it might not be 'the most narratively exciting,' but I'm kind of excited at how realistic it was. kitten really do be like that sometimes IRL!"

For example, Joko's death felt believably realistic -- assassination attempts are real and sometimes effective.
Braham's bad attitude in Season 3 felt totally real, even if highly idiotic -- young people do stupid things and need time to work out their problems.
Smodur's personality shift in IBS was weird, but I've been there IRL -- I've seen plenty of authority figures fall from grace for out of nowhere reasons before.
Even Jormag and Primordus' death felt like it technically could have played out that way -- even if it was a huge bummer and we missed out on so much.

But this one? This drives me up a wall.

I wonder if Arenanet or NCSoft realizes there's a market for them to make big or small expansions going back and fleshing out parts like Aurene's death, retconning and re-writing Icebrood Saga, and giving us Primordus' arc? Because I am one member of that market, I would go NUTS for this. I've never seen a company do this before, but I feel like the enthusiasm it would generate among existing fans would be incredibly viral.

Edited August 28 by Charybdizs.7490

[Weindrasi.3805]

Yeahhh I hated it, even when we did have the time gap. It felt cheap and lame then too.

Like, Aurene becoming a Lich from eating Joko is an interesting concept. I actually do like that. But it REALLY should have been done better, story-wise. They SHOULDN'T have killed her as the Finale of a chapter.

A better route might have been to kill her MIDWAY through a chapter, have her resurrect, but then have there be some temporary consequence she has to work though. Like, maybe she's really weak and vulnerable, and you have to keep her hidden/feed her magic so she can regain strength before Kralk finds out. OR, maybe she has some of the downsides of Lichdom... like that she resurrects, but she loses a bit of her "humanity", as it were, in the process. She becomes a little more feral, a little less empathetic.... suggesting that while yes, she can resurrect, there is a cost and if she resurrects too many times she risks going mad like the other dragons. 

[Imba.9451]

Talking about the time gap imho misses the point that her ressurection was absolutely onbvious imho. Or did anyone NOT see it coming?

And to make matters worse, Joko got killed for that cheap plot device. Just when he started to become an interesting character, we got robbed a potential great villain/anti-villain.