Fix PVP with one change, how would you do it?

[Khalisto.5780]

20 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

I don't understand the rational behind the belief that players that are good at the game (having a high elo or whatever metric you want to measure as them being "good" players) would actually be good at balance.

 

You do know that Cmc was a former ESL player right?

I believe in someway what we play is dictated by good players

 

From what i heard they keep "close contact" with cmc in his discord gatekeeping stuff like duo q and prolly some balance as well.

 

Of course he listens to this ppl, cuz you know, they are well known by the community,they've been playing since forever and have the most popular channels on twitch.

 

Cmc also has access to number s we don't have, maybe kitten we think is very succcesful is not that much, he maybe looking only at numbers and ignoring things in the "unfun to play against" department.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Khalisto.5780

[DoomNexus.5324]

I think GW2 PvP has a few very big issues so I can't really decide on exactly one.

But I'd start with one of the followings:

- Make 2v2/3v3 a permanent ranked queue, separate to conquest (@edit: I haven't checked PvP tournaments for quite a while tbh, didn't know there are special tournaments - if this stays in the game or even gets expanded on then this would be perfectly fine for me and this point would be irrelevant)

- Allow full team queues in a separate ranked queue. In addition to this: Either fully run with AT and make season rewards also available through AT/ditch the ranked ladder all together or do more to improve ranked.

- Nerf any condi damage into oblivion for sPvP (this is not really an issue for high tier play but it's actually op in low ranks, where most new people start and struggle for a while so... not a great starting experience)

- Stop trying to tie PvE balance and PvP balance together. This just won't work. Properly split skills and don't be afraid of changing their effects instead of just numbers. Anet didn't have a problem with this in GW1 either.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by DoomNexus.5324

[Stand The Wall.6987]

10 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Helseth is an old school master meaning is anti cheese teacher....something not really welcomed by the GW2 community and the devs by extension 

looool, such huge fanboy here. he is a mes one shot main dude, and often had toxic commentary.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Stand The Wall.6987

[Faux Play.6104]

Make all alt accounts use the same rating as the main.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

15 hours ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

Edit:
For the one that reacted with "confused", please elaborate.

Fix the PvP section of the forums with one change:

Remove the confused reaction. Otherwise this is going to turn into those classic Youtube comments: "112 people <insert silly reason for disliking the video here>" 

 

I reacted confused because I am very confused and internally conflicted over your post. 

Agree that CD and resource-cost nerfs helped us get here.

Disagree that damage nerfs weren't a big part of it.

 

It's like 50-50 imo.
If a skill takes longer to CD and the damage on said skill is lower afterwards, then both contribute to slowing down the pace of PvP.

[Lucentfir.7430]

On 7/4/2021 at 6:22 AM, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

the patches hit good stuff, and no its a lot smaller amount then that. the balance cadence hasn't changed since hes been in, my guess thats not his call.

It hit some stuff, but mainly those patches are whine reactionary leading into spec butchering/ taking away from the game, and people also bought into a promise of faster balance patching even thought they had significantly less resources than before. They don't hit effectively the core issues of what makes degenerate gameplay. 

If I had to do one thing to change PVP it would be to revert and redo the 2020 Feb patch, which brought a lot of really dumb blanket changes  like CC doing no damage at all. CC should have damage but values should also be adjusted accordingly by CC duration/type. Then E-specs themselves being balanced and more designed into their E-spec role/flavor niches, more deep dive balancing into what makes the spec either overbear or underperforming, and adjust from there. Basically trying to make the game fun again. 

 The whole if E-specs are better than core in any way it's power creep mindset needs to be put to bed. I don't think you can keep the idea of E-specs being a side grade when they bring new class mechanic themes and share traitlines with core. The idea of a side grade would be just another traitline with no class mechanical change with some new utilities. 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

20 minutes ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

It hit some stuff, but mainly those patches are whine reactionary leading into spec butchering/ taking away from the game, and people also bought into a promise of faster balance patching even thought they had significantly less resources than before. They don't hit effectively the core issues of what makes degenerate gameplay. 

If I had to do one thing to change PVP it would be to revert and redo the 2020 Feb patch, which brought a lot of really dumb blanket changes  like CC doing no damage at all. CC should have damage but values should also be adjusted accordingly by CC duration/type. Then E-specs themselves being balanced and more designed into their E-spec role/flavor niches, more deep dive balancing into what makes the spec either overbear or underperforming, and adjust from there. Basically trying to make the game fun again. 

 The whole if E-specs are better than core in any way it's power creep mindset needs to be put to bed. I don't think you can keep the idea of E-specs being a side grade when they bring new class mechanic themes and share traitlines with core. The idea of a side grade would be just another traitline with no class mechanical change with some new utilities. 

i don't think the smaller patches were mostly whine reactionary but ok. i admit i bought into the faster patches thing for about a month then realized it was all bs. anet has been doing this monumentally slow pace for patches since launch and i don't expect them to ever really do balance patches in a timely manner. thats interesting tho, you think the patches were bad but are you also upset that there weren't bad patches more often? i wonder if this is a widely shared belief.

 

i have no opinion on cc doing no damage, i think it can be worked around and don't blame you for missing the damage part of those skills. i feel like the megapatch was trying to do a deep dive, and it was partially successful. problem is there were no follow up buffs. the damage made the game a total meme for me pre megapatch, so initially i liked the change in direction a lot. like i said before tho there were no follow up buffs so it fell into a different type of degeneracy.

 

yeah i don't care for that idea either. especs can be upgrades, but i think core builds should have something going for them as well. the trade off thing was a total disaster. i think especs being a sidegrade is definitely possible, and in fact this is more true today then ever before but only cuz massive nerfs lol. thats what makes them sidegrades tho, not being op but maybe stronger then core at a certain thing, and only that one thing unlike many pof especs which are too good at many things.

[Lucentfir.7430]

1 hour ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

i don't think the smaller patches were mostly whine reactionary but ok. i admit i bought into the faster patches thing for about a month then realized it was all bs. anet has been doing this monumentally slow pace for patches since launch and i don't expect them to ever really do balance patches in a timely manner. thats interesting tho, you think the patches were bad but are you also upset that there weren't bad patches more often? i wonder if this is a widely shared belief.

 

i have no opinion on cc doing no damage, i think it can be worked around and don't blame you for missing the damage part of those skills. i feel like the megapatch was trying to do a deep dive, and it was partially successful. problem is there were no follow up buffs. the damage made the game a total meme for me pre megapatch, so initially i liked the change in direction a lot. like i said before tho there were no follow up buffs so it fell into a different type of degeneracy.

 

yeah i don't care for that idea either. especs can be upgrades, but i think core builds should have something going for them as well. the trade off thing was a total disaster. i think especs being a sidegrade is definitely possible, and in fact this is more true today then ever before but only cuz massive nerfs lol. thats what makes them sidegrades tho, not being op but maybe stronger then core at a certain thing, and only that one thing unlike many pof especs which are too good at many things.
 

1:I never said all of them were bad but they are reactionary, otherwise why is the pool of amulets and specs been significantly cut down since then and now? My gripes with the whole faster balance patches thing was that it felt like an excuse to make dumb changes and false hope to say we're doing something, we're turning a new leaf! People accepted those changes with the belief that the faster balance patches would fix those newly formed problems(which it didn't.)  For instance, i'm still waiting to see what's going to happen to those 300s ICD trait they intentionally gutted which were supposedly to be replaced. 🙄

2:The CCs doing no damage thing has always been a cornerstone for why the February patch was also one of the worse executed patches I can recall since for as long as I've played this game. I get that people get mad when they get hit with cc that happens to be 3k-7k on a crit(bull charge is something I always saw people complaining about here on the forums) but  you don't just neuter the damage to be zero, you tone it down and/or you make the thing not crit-able. Long lasting CCs you're supposed to be avoiding or making it hard to connect anyways. The high damage being toned down is fine that's not something I was against, there were certainly skills that needed to be smacked a decent amount with the nerf bat, though at the same time there are things that didn't deserve to get touched either. 

3: I agree with that, core should have some stuff going for it compared to its E-specs, we did have some of that before too where certain specs types could run better on core than their E-spec counter parts. It's also true today because Spvp is pretty much gutted of tons of options it had before so it's not that surprising that some really meh options are okay now. The current iteration of E-specs either ends up being either better than core or worse than core so it's essentially an upgrade, or a downgrade, and that's mainly by nature of it sharing the same lines as core, because there's always traits in core that were pretty meh or bad options for core, but pretty good or decent for certain E-specs.  So the situation always complicates it isn't always clear cut to make something better at only one thing compared to core. PoF specs should've had their primary niches more balanced on/designed around like Spellbreaker being the anti-boon/boon remover, Holo being big burst but glass spec(that replaced old static discharge engi), guardian being the Condi Support spec, and the list goes on. 

[Zietlogik.6208]

Make hard CC conditional (aka not work unless it meets criteria. X skill only knocks down moving targets, Y skill only dazes enemies casting a skill) or all have long cast times and keep their old damage. Right now there is very little reason not to just throw CC skills on people on cooldown.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Zietlogik.6208

[The Fear.3865]

 ❌ Disable rally 

[Sereath.1428]

9 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Fix the PvP section of the forums with one change:

Remove the confused reaction. Otherwise this is going to turn into those classic Youtube comments: "112 people <insert silly reason for disliking the video here>" 

 

I reacted confused because I am very confused and internally conflicted over your post. 

Agree that CD and resource-cost nerfs helped us get here.

Disagree that damage nerfs weren't a big part of it.

 

It's like 50-50 imo.
If a skill takes longer to CD and the damage on said skill is lower afterwards, then both contribute to slowing down the pace of PvP.

Oh yeah that's for sure, I really disliked the damage nerfs, I entirely agree. I was just trying to be fair with everyone since some players still think that the damage is too high, it's crazy.

And I was asking about the other "confused" reaction on my other comment about game design.

Edited July 6, 2021 by XxsdgxX.8109

[Axl.8924]

10 minutes ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

Oh yeah that's for sure, I really disliked the damage nerfs, I entirely agree. I was just trying to be fair with everyone since some players still think that the damage is too high, it's crazy.

And I was asking about the other "confused" reaction on my other comment about game design.

 

Thats because the damage used to be crazy high. In the past we had 1 shot everywhere and it was as others had put it "Braindead" because you could spam ranged attack get 1 shots.

Mesmers had stealth shot, rangers could 1 shot before with sickem and their GS, thieves used to be able to oneshot with deadeye.

 

It was broken. Having lower TTK means you now have to outplay your enemies.

 

If you look at some of the plays for thief, and i know folks love to hate on them, but watching sindrener and the best ones is a thing of beauty, because of the juking  and timing avoidance.

 

Now if you mean some dmg returned, well depends, i can see that happening, as long as its not to the level prepatch where everyone was 1 shotting.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Vancho.8750]

16 hours ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

I believe in someway what we play is dictated by good players

 

From what i heard they keep "close contact" with cmc in his discord gatekeeping stuff like duo q and prolly some balance as well.

 

Of course he listens to this ppl, cuz you know, they are well known by the community,they've been playing since forever and have the most popular channels on twitch.

 

Cmc also has access to number s we don't have, maybe kitten we think is very succcesful is not that much, he maybe looking only at numbers and ignoring things in the "unfun to play against" department.

 

 

I think the tournament bunker meta is the way it is because the supposed pro players like to win, the same thing happened with the chrono bunker meta, they were asked if chrono is fine and then they tanked the ESL because of it.

The classes should be made fun to play, but fun is subjective so some people like to oneshot others like to not die forever, and others just like to win, I think they should strive for middle ground where there are burst specks but you have time to react and bunkers specks but they should have some way to win over them, this is hard to make but the main issue is that the patch cadence is too slow and people have too much time to find the ULTIMATE and the meta gets stale.

They should balance the game around Entertainment it should be made so it is interesting to watch, watching bunkers and no one dying is no fun to watch and oneshoting people left and right is also no fun, the screen covered in 50 AoE circles is also lame, the viewer should have general idea what is going on even if he is not understanding all the spells flying around. From here you get more views on Youtube, Twitch and whatever, more marketing and more exposure. It should look good from the side even if it is not perfectly balanced.    

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

On 7/4/2021 at 6:52 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

Hire a balance team instead of a balance individual. 

Revolutionary.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

9 hours ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

snips

ye. agree with some things and disagree with some things. thanks for the lil back and forth.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Increase the balance pass frequency on:

* classes/specs largely underplayed/absent from AT and Ranked

* classes/specs saturating AT and Ranked

in that order. Minor/emergency changes once or twice every month, Major adjustments every three months when necessary.

Base the changes at least around, but not necessarily on, player feedback for the above.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[CutesySylveon.8290]

On 7/3/2021 at 8:20 PM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

this is where him having ultimate power got us, it is how it is, I would prefer pre-feb with some alterations but whatever, it can always be worse.

Except he didn't have ultimate power or the 300sec cd traits wouldn't still be here. He can only tweak numbers, not change traits or skills fundamentally. 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

13 hours ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

And I was asking about the other "confused" reaction on my other comment about game design.

Oh. I reacted to that one with the blue heart emoji reaction

 

13 hours ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

Oh yeah that's for sure, I really disliked the damage nerfs, I entirely agree. I was just trying to be fair with everyone since some players still think that the damage is too high, it's crazy.

Whoever said that probably went zerker ammy vs another zerker ammy and immediately concluded that TTK is still way too high.

 

Meanwhile I haven't had a single death for 3 days of doing dailies.

I'm almost at 99 fishing in OSRS now too. Since sPvP requires an attention span to play now, I spend most my time in sPvP playing OSRS on a second monitor. I still do alright as there's little to fear in terms of damage in sPvP.

[Nightcore.5621]

Make rr / Red resign where Red team wins evey match for faster wins 😅 😁

Edited July 7, 2021 by Nightcore.5621

[KingTyler.4052]

add new game modes and more maps

[Zagerus.8675]

Find a way to get every player to truly and consistently believe in themselves so that no matter how stormy it gets we're always trying to find a way to push our play higher. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Zagerus.8675

[Terrorsquad.2349]

Revert to vanilla GW2 core by disabling specializations (only PvP ofc) and balance from there on out onto HoT and after onto PoF.

 

Vanilla had its own multiple issues but at the very least; each class was played in teams. So revert back to vanilla as an event and buff/adjust anything from there on out. Then go into HoT and balance that out to match with core. Specializations should not be core+ but a diviation of gameplay/style for each class. Same with PoF.

[Leonidrex.5649]

hire someone competent for pvp balance

[McZero.5318]

Frequent number balancing updates, like weekly or better, targeting the meta builds to stop everyone playing the same thing.

X is OP at the moment? Only for a week.

X hits too hard? Lower that skills damage by 5% and wait and see. 

 

With weekly or better small fixes like these you can control the power of stuff and watch to see how effective it is, then adjust.

 

 

Also: Change conditions to be DAMAGE OVER TIME instead of oneshotting just as hard as power. 😡

Edited July 19, 2021 by McZero.5318

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Smiters Boon everything.