When can we get a playable Tengu Race? [Merged]

[Gibson.4036]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

These things are called loss leaders; features, content, products made to attract people in, even if they don't make revenues. Even loss leaders are STILL a business decision. They simply have a different purpose. 

Do you think a new race would qualify for that? I am of the opinion that this is highly doubtful, as a new class would be irrelevant to a new player of the game; every class is new to a new player, so the value of adding another, even as a loss leader, is very low. 

I don’t think playable Tengu fit that, but I’m not just talking about things like loss leaders.

I’m talking about things like one of my local grocery stores where the baggers will still walk your purchase out to your car and put the bags in your trunk, and have a policy of no tips. This is a cost to them with no direct ROI, but yes, it is a business decision. They want to cultivate a service atmosphere that they hope will indirectly bring an ROI as people chose to shop there.

Or, when I take time out of doing design work to give backstage tours at the theatre where I work, say. It comes from my belief in giving to the community, and fits the vision of the business, and maybe, just maybe some school group will have future ticket buyers among them. But it’s not as direct as “tour groups either make money or don’t”.

Thats all I was trying to interject. It looked like the conversation was trying to put all business decisions into “does this make more money”, when there are a lot of business decisions that can come down to overall vision, the story the business is trying to sell, community goodwill, and perceived quality or niche.

I would thing Tengu would be far too large an addition to be a passion project for a designer or two. I don’t think it likely to be seen as worth resources for it not to be. So yeah, unlikely.

[Gibson.4036]

13 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

Honestly, nobody knows.

Hope springs eternal?

[kharmin.7683]

7 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Hope springs eternal?

Indeed, it does.  😉

[fatihso.7258]

19 hours ago, Fotizzile.2041 said:

wasn’t there already a expansion announcement? Wouldn’t they have talked about something as big as a new race, that’s usually a big selling point in mmos.

Griffon was also big enough but they never talked about it. People found out as they play expansion. So I would not be surprised if Tengu pops out as new playable race when majority thinks it won't.

Edited October 11, 2021 by fatihso.7258

[Gibson.4036]

13 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Indeed, it does.  😉

Exactly! We all have our particular quixotic battles, whether Tengu, swimsuits, or duplicate threads 😉

Edited October 11, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[kharmin.7683]

@Gibson.4036I thought that you'd appreciate that.  haha

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, fatihso.7258 said:

Griffon was also big enough but they never talked about it. People found out as they play expansion. So I would not be surprised if Tengu pops out as new playable race when majority thinks it won't.

Um, that doesn't make sense. Anet certainly DID announce mounts as part of POF expansion and Griffons are part of that development. I can assure you, if you set yourself up like this, you WILL be surprised if Tengu doesn't popup as playable.  

Edited October 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[mindcircus.1506]

2 hours ago, fatihso.7258 said:

Griffon was also big enough but they never talked about it. People found out as they play expansion. So I would not be surprised if Tengu pops out as new playable race when majority thinks it won't.

This is a false analogy.

If a new race had already been announced a second hidden behind an achievement unlock might be a relevant hope.

[Astralporing.1957]

23 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

This is a false analogy.

If a new race had already been announced a second hidden behind an achievement unlock might be a relevant hope.

Not to mention people are quick to forget that PoF was in general quite light on any reveals. Most of the info we've got beforehand came from leaks.

[Dante.1508]

Early game after GW1 i wanted a stone dwarf race added which imo would easily fit all their armors and animations etc but it never happened.. Skritt as i've said before are similar size to Asura so i assume Asura items would fit.. Early stories could be added no issue as they are just singluar stories and shoe horned into the pact.. (i hope they omit that trahearne part for sanity sake lol but its not hard to add them) but i can understand Tengu being a problem, unless norn gear fitted them similar sizes? or even charr.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Dante.1508

[The Greyhawk.9107]

1 hour ago, Dante.1508 said:

Early game after GW1 i wanted a stone dwarf race added which imo would easily fit all their armors and animations etc but it never happened.. Skritt as i've said before are similar size to Asura so i assume Asura items would fit.. Early stories could be added no issue as they are just singluar stories and shoe horned into the pact.. (i hope they omit that trahearne part for sanity sake lol but its not hard to add them) but i can understand Tengu being a problem, unless norn gear fitted them similar sizes? or even charr.

My dude, human and sylvari don't fit each other.  Somewhat similarly sized armors still aren't going to fit the builds of another race.

[killforbeers.7534]

On 10/9/2021 at 2:39 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, it's not AGAIN ... because it never went away.

No, it's not LIKE we are on wallstreet. We ARE. I know it's convenient to ignore this because it's so foreign to you and you know you can't argue it away in the discussion ... but Anet IS a business and make no mistake GW2 is there to make them money. If you don't think that impacts their decisions to include new races 9 years into the game, it's only because it doesn't support your narrative and hopes to get one. 

 Actually the decision is really NCSoft not ANET if that was the case there would not be layoffs in ANET.

Also to be honest the decision what is best for the company is not some you or I know - that is on them and even if they think its a good "business decision" it can be a bad one. However, a good clue is to cater to the customers. Many asked for fishing and we will have it not as great as in New World but good enough.

[killforbeers.7534]

On 10/9/2021 at 3:56 PM, Chip.9267 said:

And we will see at exp. release. I think a new race its a plus, you think its not. We will see...

It seems it may not be in this EOD expansion but I think it is possible in the next one - maybe but if they ever do decide to make a new playable race then Tengu is on the top of that list.

A good clue that it may never happen would be if they gave us a Battle Tonic which for me that would be cheap and lazy.

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, killforbeers.7534 said:

 Actually the decision is really NCSoft not ANET if that was the case there would not be layoffs in ANET.

NCSoft does not tell Anet what content to put in GW2. 

[killforbeers.7534]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

NCSoft does not tell Anet what content to put in GW2. 

NCSoft is always involved.

I have played most all of NCSoft game and the only reason NCSoft does not get involved is because ANET is making more money than the rest of their games - at that time. However, NCSoft does step in if they dont make the money just as they did last time. The more money ANET makes the less involved NCSoft is but if they don't then NCsoft already got involved and will again if ANET messes up again.

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, killforbeers.7534 said:

NCSoft is always involved.

Well, you don't how they are. Anet develops the game, NCSoft plays a different role. It's a pedantic point anyways and I won't argue it further. I'm certain that there was a reason you replied to me ... it's not clear to me what that reason is, other than to tell me things I already know or stated. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[killforbeers.7534]

9 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, you don't know how NCSoft is involved with GW2 content and its development. 

 

So do you?

 

Do you work for ANET or NCSoft?

 

I can only go by what I have read and saw NCSoft actions when I played  AION, Blade & Soul, Lineage 2, and WildStar.

 

Now I did not play GW1 cause I was having a lot of fun with the games above and did not have the time to add GW1 at that time but NCSoft is involved and can get involved in the contents as they have with the games mentioned above.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by killforbeers.7534

[Obtena.7952]

29 minutes ago, killforbeers.7534 said:

 

So do you?

 

Do you work for ANET or NCSoft?

 

I can only go by what I have read and saw NCSoft actions when I played  AION, Blade & Soul, Lineage 2, and WildStar.

 

Now I did not play GW1 cause I was having a lot of fun with the games above and did not have the time to add GW1 at that time but NCSoft is involved and can get involved in the contents they have with the games above.

 

That's nice an all, but as I said, I'm not going to argue pedantic points with you over nothing. It's not clear why you are quoting me or how what you are saying is related to the points I've made in the thread. Feel free to clarify if you have more than pedantic arguments to make. 

PS. I like how it was OK for you to assume NCSoft is manipulating content in GW2 because 'layoffs" ... but had a problem when I assumed they didn't because they aren't the game developer. 🤷‍♂️👍

Edited October 12, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[killforbeers.7534]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

That's nice an all, but as I said, I'm not going to argue pedantic points with you over nothing. It's not clear why you are quoting me and what your post has to do with the points I've made in the thread. Feel free to clarify if you have more than pedantic arguments to make. 

That was really my last reply to you but since you asking why I quoted you okay then I will make this one my last reply and will not keep replying if this is still the same "business" reply with no additional point of view or angle.

 

Okay, bottom line we both don't work for this company so we cannot say Yes or No that ANET will or will not make a "business" decision. Did you see their business review like their gap analysis, ROI, etc did I miss that board meeting?

 

To be clear I am quoting you based on your "Business" replies as if you work for these companies and reply to others as if they do not work in that field or they are young in HS or freshmen.

 

I am in business okay lets talk, I been making over 6digits for years and part of a committee where we make many business decisions every day and many at the last minute which can gain or lose money very quickly for the company.

 

My reply to you is that you keep saying business decisions - I get it you are correct in some of your feedback but its getting old and just accept their replies. Your replies are as if you made the company's final decision for them. Again did I miss that business meeting at 2pm today? Now unless you are part of ANET board and this is an alt account and looking for possible damage control - then show yourself.  🙂

 

Anyway I enjoyed replying to you and if and only if I see a different business point of view or reply - I may reply but not again on this feedback.  Looking forward when you bring a different business point of view or angle in your replies.

 

[Obtena.7952]

38 minutes ago, killforbeers.7534 said:

Okay, bottom line we both don't work for this company so we cannot say Yes or No that ANET will or will not make a "business" decision. Did you see their business review like their gap analysis, ROI, etc did I miss that board meeting?

 

Great ... because I never said Anet will or will not make that decision. I said it was THEIR business decision to make, IF they decide to table it since it's a game content decision ... and they do control that, even if NCSoft is 'involved' to whatever degree you want to imagine.  Whether they make that decision or not ... completely different discussion. How they make it ... completely different discussion. For some reason, some people are in HEAVY denial about the fact that this is a business-related decision (what game related content decision ISN'T?) ... and it doesn't seem very advisable for someone to inject themselves into that argument just to wax academic about it. 

Finally, no one needs to be part of Anet's board to see how low-value an idea a new race is, so just settle yourself. If 'regular' people can see how worthless a new race in the game is, then it's probably more than obvious to the big shots at Anet. 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[fatihso.7258]

On 10/11/2021 at 5:21 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

Um, that doesn't make sense. Anet certainly DID announce mounts as part of POF expansion and Griffons are part of that development. I can assure you, if you set yourself up like this, you WILL be surprised if Tengu doesn't popup as playable.  

 

On 10/11/2021 at 6:34 PM, mindcircus.1506 said:

This is a false analogy.

If a new race had already been announced a second hidden behind an achievement unlock might be a relevant hope.

Before the exp, Anet has never advertised griffon as rideable flying playable character mount. Prove me wrong go ahead. Since you both failed to or intentionally ignored to process why I replied to that guy; in a game without mounts a flying mount on top of other mounts would be good advertisement point despite the hate stirred on some subs towards mount system overall, yet this was not happened. While idgak if Tengu happens or not, same pattern can follow up for it. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by fatihso.7258
Clarified.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, fatihso.7258 said:

 

Before the exp, Anet has never advertised griffon as rideable flying playable character mount. Prove me wrong go ahead. Since you both failed to or intentionally ignored to process why I replied to that guy; in a game without mounts a flying mount on top of other mounts would be good advertisement point despite the hate stirred on some subs towards mount system overall, yet this was not happened. While idgak if Tengu happens or not, same pattern can follow up for it. 

So griffon is an addition to the other mounts in the same system.

What of the current things we know that comes with EoD do you see Tengu being added into?

 

[shrew.3059]

4 hours ago, fatihso.7258 said:

While idgak if Tengu happens or not, same pattern can follow up for it. 

 

The fact that something is possible does not make that thing likely. By that logic, any race we’ve already encountered could be a new playable race, or even ones we haven’t encountered. That possibility does not address the argument many people have made: it seems like a high cost, low return expenditure of resources.

[Obtena.7952]

11 hours ago, fatihso.7258 said:

Before the exp, Anet has never advertised griffon as rideable flying playable character mount. Prove me wrong go ahead. 

I don't need to prove you wrong because it's irrelevant that we didn't know that particular detail about mounts. Anet didn't release details about mounts so you come to the conclusion that a MAJOR feature like playable Tengu will be a surprise in the EoD release ... OK whatever you want to think bud. 

People have made their points that playable Tengu is low value content for players AND for Anet. People have already pointed out Anet is interested in generating hype with teasers pre-release of major features and surprising people with playable Tengu on release day would be the opposite of that strategy. Believe whatever you like. Nothing that is real supports that belief though. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Dante.1508]

On 10/12/2021 at 1:14 PM, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

My dude, human and sylvari don't fit each other.  Somewhat similarly sized armors still aren't going to fit the builds of another race.

I basically meant there wouldn't need huge changes to Skritt or Dwarves as a race but Tengu imo are an odd shaped species like charr, and anet seem to hate modeling clothes on charr.