When can we get a playable Tengu Race? [Merged]

[kharmin.7683]

3 hours ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

Just a reminder their killer feature this time around is... fishing. I don't think it'll make people talk like mounts or gliding was.

A new race would have at least brought hype, make people talk and reach mainstream video game news.

Still feels weird to me that they spent so much time adding animations, faces, armor types, skeletons etc to tengu to end up having them be nothing more than a npc village. Oh well.

 

Had you not seen the many threads requesting fishing?

[Esorono.1039]

4 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Impressive! You’ve managed to get both Sobx and Obtena focused on you at the same time. Epic forum tanking skills there.

Good luck!

If I could throw you some stab and might I would.

I can pull some heat off from them, this was found out a while ago, and just recently made public knowledge.

 

[Deihnyx.6318]

Oh that's super cool! Heavy armor on Tengu does look a bit weird though haha! Unless it's due to t-posing!

[Esorono.1039]

13 minutes ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

Oh that's super cool! Heavy armor on Tengu does look a bit weird though haha! Unless it's due to t-posing!

It's not the most flattering armor, but it does fit with almost no clipping, but I expect all buttcapes to look as awkward on them as it does on charr, so RIP medium armor wearers. I feel they are slowly building up to playable Tengu, and they used Tengu in EoD as they want to use the models they already worked on so far. The model is relatively new, about a year and a half, and a project this large takes a while. But there will likely be armor touchups, but mostly similar to charr models.

[Randin.5701]

The fact that they've been playing around with making a player character-style tengu model at all definitely does raise the odds that we will see playable tengu at some point (expansion 4 set in the Dominion of Winds, maybe?), although I'll admit that even that doesn't make it a certainty. Could be they were experimenting with the possibility of playable tengu, but decided that it just wasn't going to be doable at all and scrapped it; or hell, this could've been something that one of the artists was doing on a lark just to see if it could be done, rather than being an actual intended feature.

 

Still, it's a good reason to keep hope alive.

[Dawanarth.4601]

28 minutes ago, Randin.5701 said:

expansion 4 set in the Dominion of Winds, maybe?)

The DoW is way to small to serve as a Expansion place, at most it would be a  LS map

[Swing.6439]

8 hours ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

Low value to you, high value for some people. There's (again) nothing dishonest about it and you've now had the opportunity to see multiple people ask for it/inquire about it in the latest trailer.

Some people are willing to spend 2k gems on mount skins, which "content" or "gameplay" wise does not bring anything. But it does bring value. A lot of value, in fact. The entire gemstore is proof of that and let's remember that the gemstore is what supports the game long term. Not everything has to be about new playable content, skins are there to support the game and bring variety, and a race would be perfect for that even if it comes at a premium.

And I will absolutely stand my ground, EoD does not offer a killer feature like PoF or HoT (or Nightfall with heroes, or Factions with its 12 player raids/wvw attempt) did. Fishing alone isn't enough to sell the hype to mainstream.

Hi, I'm an old player and this is the only thing I wanted form the expac. The ranger elite spec is absolute trash and I could care less about boats and a two seater mount thats probably slower than running speed. You say skins are here to support and bring variety but the only new skins we have gotten since PoF are gem store and the corsair set in lw. A lot of people can't even afford that "variety." Gameplay wise it could bring a whole new starting area, a whole new voice and dialogue, new animations, and most importantly make more than half of the community happy. I'm sorry but fishing and a single new mount on top of ANOTHER human focused expansion do not make me excited.
Edit: I accidentally quoted the wrong person but my point stands.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Swing.6439
wrong quote

[The Fear.3865]

6 hours ago, Esorono.1039 said:

I can pull some heat off from them, this was found out a while ago, and just recently made public knowledge.

 

Well, anet tried, and failed, nothing new. 🙈

Im glad they were working on it when so much people said that would never happen. 

[Ashantara.8731]

12 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

 Nothing really sad about it, other than have to remind people  GW2 isn't GW1 part 2.

???

You couldn't play any races other than humans in GW1.

[Omega.6801]

This thread gets dumber by the page...

[Sobx.1758]

13 hours ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

Yes, it's my opinion and I believe it would. It remains a conditional statement that cannot be verified and you can absolutely disagree and say fishing brings more interest than a new race. I had no problem with that first sentence.
I do have a problem about being called dishonest for thinking fishing brings less hype than a new race would. 

It's interesting how you see expansions as a single feature you're deciding to outline in the first place. If you want to talk about "hype and reaching video game news", it seems simply "gw2 going back to cantha" is enough. Other than that, new race doesn't change anything about the gameplay and fishing at the very least adds something to the game in terms of gameplay.

I already explained to you what was dishonest about your wording in the previous post, if that's not what you mean then it's ok.

13 hours ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

The point is there is value to skins and diversity. This is fashion war after all. So even if races are only a "reskin" they're still value. They already did significant work on that specific race, adding a lot of new animation, support for armor, skeleton etc. Yes it'd be more work than a mount skin, but they could monetize it: Selling point for an expansion is one of them. Selling more character slots, selling race swap (although that as a feature seems unlikely). And they definitely don't need a whole new personal story or even voice acting to make it happen.

Did you understand what I wrote there? They are already selling skins. Adding new race wouldn't allow them to add more skins to sell. It would just add more work into something they're already selling. So still no/low value in that area for the price of using more resources. 😄  

The expansion already has selling points. Raceswap is irrelevant to anything here or to implementation of a new race, so not sure why you're bringing something that doesn't exist like it's dependant on implementing a new race. It's not.

13 hours ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

You're not wrong in that it's not gliding or mounts. And I'm definitely not saying fishing isn't a welcome addition, just that it's the one thing that gets added in every freaking open world game and is rarely very thrilling to play (my opinion) and that you don't really see headlines about it.

So "everyone adds new playable race" is an arugment FOR adding new race, but "everyone adds fishing at some point" is an argument... AGAINST adding that activity to the game? I don't understand the logic here. You also rarely see "headlines" about race, because it doesn't matter. But you'll see headalines about new expansion, going back to cantha and new especs. Pretending that adding a new playable race would somehow spark an insane interest and "reach headlines" is just false.

[genjonah.1253]

15 hours ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

. And they definitely don't need a whole new personal story or even voice acting to make it happen.

From an artistic integrity, as well as a selling stand point- they absolutely, unequivocally, 100% would need new voice acting to make a new race happen. Additionally, while they could potentially make it so the Tengu ‘journey’ would start in Cantha, they still absolutely would have to spend an enormous amount of resources on a personal story. How completely insulting would it be to the game itself and the community to have a race without these things? How apologetic and on top of it were they when they had to release a LW episode without voice acting?!?

 

and that voice acting and coding and rejiggering wouldn’t be just for the personal story, which is a huge task in and of itself. It’s also dungeons, instances, combat quotes, racial interaction differences, etc.

 

I am not ‘against’ the idea of playable Tengu. It was my most wanted race back at pre-launch hype, outside of humans obviously. But at this stage in the game, I seriously cannot fathom any way to make it profitable for the developers. Endless combat tonic? Go for it. Entire race? Even aside from them straight up saying ‘no’ to it, I just don’t think it’s going to happen, and if it did? I don’t think it would be a good business decision

[Gibson.4036]

6 hours ago, lokh.2695 said:

This thread gets dumber by the page...

Isn’t that the first law of forums?

[Dib.4612]

They confirmed on the stream about Echovald Forest that it's not happening, right at the beginning of said stream. 
I'm guessing their game engine is super inefficient to make armor in, and having to make gear for another race would be a lot of work for them. 

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

For the sake of clarity, yes they can add the Tengu as a fully playable race (hence that_shaman's tweet), the problem is the numerous amount of work to actually make it properly integrated into the game and allow it to interact with not just equipment but skills, animations, story, cutscenes, masteries so on and so forth. 

In case people already forgot, we already have Humans as playable characters yet it still bugged during the Echovald Wilds preview when it took a disguise, literally stabbing itself with a hammer. So outside of numerous coding, animation and integration into the game, they also gotta do numerous amounts of bug hunting and glitch fixing, which takes up more time than many people think.

Yeah sure, put an armour on the Tengu, now see if the rest of it works. Animation, weapon interaction, skills integration, mastery (mounts/gliding) integration, control functionalities, story implementation, cutscene interactions and whatever else. Don't take something as simple as a tweet of a Tengu wearing armour as sudden gospel because believe it or not, with enough effort, they can do the same to Kodan and even Skritt lel 

[Deihnyx.6318]

17 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It's interesting how you see expansions as a single feature you're deciding to outline in the first place. If you want to talk about "hype and reaching video game news", it seems simply "gw2 going back to cantha" is enough. Other than that, new race doesn't change anything about the gameplay and fishing at the very least adds something to the game in terms of gameplay.

We can agree that going back to Cantha is great. Absolutely agree. This was my favorite expansion in GW1, preordered and all that. Done deal.

Going back to Elona was also great (albeit not having Urgoz and therefore not being my favorite area :D). But Mounts made it that much better.

And yeah, for YEARS people acting like you are now were constantly sitting in threads they had no interest for to try and shut down feature requests in place of ArenaNet. It's not worth it, would break the game, would just be convenience, it's too much work to rework core maps, etc.
I'm so, so glad they were proven wrong and that GW2 ended up getting not just a regular mount system, but one of the best -if not the best- mount system of any MMO. 

So if you really couldn't care less/don't agree/don't see value and what could potentially be done with it /to revamp races, including the different ways Anet could offer (or not) monetization or whether it could (or not) bring back some old players and attract new one, yeah I heard you, multiple times, but you know what they say: There's no accounting for taste.

I would simply suggest you go defend some features you want to see instead.

Oh and because I really need to correct something. I'm not the one who said every MMO adds new races, I'm also not "against" fishing just because I don't think it's a killer feature, and I would never go into one of the fishing threads to criticize what they like ad nauseam.

 

16 hours ago, genjonah.1253 said:

From an artistic integrity, as well as a selling stand point- they absolutely, unequivocally, 100% would need new voice acting to make a new race happen. Additionally, while they could potentially make it so the Tengu ‘journey’ would start in Cantha, they still absolutely would have to spend an enormous amount of resources on a personal story. How completely insulting would it be to the game itself and the community to have a race without these things? How apologetic and on top of it were they when they had to release a LW episode without voice acting?!?

Anet has also showed us that they're able to pivot or find workarounds in order to save on cost while still delivering. Albeit a smaller feature, they used to advertise the "journey" of an legendary collection before dropping it and making it generic.

While it's not on the same scale, I personally wouldn't see an issue with getting the same VA from another race, maybe with some audio tweaking or something. Ideal? Of course not, but efficient.

Mounts in core vanilla maps aren't ideal either, you can still pretty much break every map and get stuck in walls, but what we get for this slight annoyance is just something that much cooler.

On the other hand, a race specific story in Cantha would be very valuable in my opinion, the way Assassins/Ritualists started in Cantha and Paragons/Dervish did in Nightfall. Great way to start a version of the game that's more up to date than the outdated (I hope we'll all agree on that) core game.

Heck there's even training grounds in Shin Jea 😄

Edited November 14, 2021 by Deihnyx.6318

[Randin.5701]

On 11/13/2021 at 12:54 AM, Dawanarth.4601 said:

The DoW is way to small to serve as a Expansion place, at most it would be a  LS map

Eh, looking at the map, you could pretty easily get four zones out of the unused part of the Sea of Sorrows area. Granted, one of those zones would be a new city, so you'd probably want at least one more adventure zone in there, but you could conceivably get away with having one zone that isn't contiguous with the rest of the expansion.

[VocalThought.9835]

On 11/10/2021 at 7:36 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

So to be clear ... GW2 is not GW1 part 2, so no, Anet doesn't need to 'fix' the mistake of getting rid of monk because it was never part of the game in the first place. 

"GW2 is not GW1 part 2"? It's not? So what is it? I swore they created GW2 once they realized they weren't creating any newer expansions for Guild Wars. In fact, they promised GW players that they could continue their progression from GW to GW2. I understand that this game takes place years after GW, but I do think this is the sequel to GW, not simply a game that takes place in the same world. This might not be a direct sequel or Guild Wars part 2 as you stated, but this also isn't "Guild Wars, too" which they could have called it if they wanted a game in the same world and not a sequel. So yes, this is Guild Wars 2.

[kharmin.7683]

23 minutes ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

 In fact, they promised GW players that they could continue their progression from GW to GW2.

Source? I don't recall this.  It may be true.  I just don't recall it.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

12 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Source? I don't recall this.  It may be true.  I just don't recall it.

Perhaps VocalThought is referring to the Hall Of Monuments, which was reference by Anet even before EotN came out as a way to connect the two games, though it wasn't until years later that we learn how.

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by The Greyhawk.9107

[VocalThought.9835]

4 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Perhaps VocalThought is referring to the Hall Of Monuments, which was reference by Anet even before EotN came out as a way to connect the two games, though it wasn't until years later that we learn how.

 

That's just what I'm referring to. I believe GW2 lost a lot of GW players because of their lack of commitment to GW players. I know a couple players that were die hard GW fans that started GW2, but didn't continue with the game because they "lost their character".

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

That's just what I'm referring to. I believe GW2 lost a lot of GW players because of their lack of commitment to GW players. I know a couple players that were die hard GW fans that started GW2, but didn't continue with the game because they "lost their character".

Well gw1 is still there to play for them thats nice right?

[Obtena.7952]

8 hours ago, VocalThought.9835 said:

That's just what I'm referring to. I believe GW2 lost a lot of GW players because of their lack of commitment to GW players. I know a couple players that were die hard GW fans that started GW2, but didn't continue with the game because they "lost their character".

If that's even the case ... that doesn't seem to have affected the success of GW2 anyways. 

[NassyNaan.7612]

I've tested the water on this topic a bit with my guild and friends and got positive responses and felt I should put this out to a more varied public.

[Naxos.2503]

Based on previous information, I believe the devs have already looked into that. My understanding is that while it is possible, it is so technically complex and would require so much work especially in the past areas of the game that it is not considered worth it.

In my opinion, the main problem comes from dialogue, voice acting and story integration. Precisely the points that you ask for. For one, it is worth noting that Gw2 as a MMo is Heavily voiced something that other MMos do not particularly do, and thus it has a heavier cost to implement. 

The story integration poses two problems : Obviously voicing characters is one, but also integration of those new voices and dialogues into the existing storyline and dialogue. The second is story continuity. It has thus far been established within the quasi totality of the game that Tengus, while present took no active part in the fight for Tyria and against the dragons except for a few notable exceptions (primarily craftmen). It would be some pretty strong retcon to have the world crawling in Tengus while all the texts, dialogue and established lore claims the opposite. It would create a lore dissonance.

Assuming we cut away the initial "My Story" part of the storyline and give the Tengus their own "lite" version, it would probably leave players unsatisfied with the experience as other races are featured much more heavily, detailed and fleshed out.

 

Essentially it's like this : It's possible, but the amount of work required is so absurd it would require more than a living world season's worth amount of work in order to make it happen. And based on that alone, it's probably better to focus on delivering new content to existing races and established world. 

I'm a big fan of non-human races. Believe me, I'd love nothing more than getting playable tengus, but I honestly couldn't justifty the inordinate amount of work it would require, compared to many other areas of the game who needs the attention much much more. I'm a fervent believer in combat tonic, and hope to see them extended so that eventually they do not rely on playable race skeletons in order to function. I would thus prefer several combat tonics were made that let us take the appearance of different tengus. The work would be lessened by their use of charr animations (for some animations, they also have their own).

Edited November 18, 2021 by Naxos.2503