Legendary armor by pve exploration [Merged]

[Kanok.3027]

I mean, ascended armor in fractals is relatively easy to get. The marks can always be crafted, even for the WvW stuff, so it makes it far easier to get them that way and you still don't even have to do fractals for that. Some gold, some daily crafting and some WvW currencies (or even fractals if you're patient enough for that without going past T1 for a while) and you can get ascended gear. Along with that, sometimes end boss chests have a chance to drop ascended gear boxes, be it weapons or armor. Ascended gear rains from the sky. I have a few sets and I can't wait to get rid of them once I get my legendary gear!

 

Sure, in WvW, you do have to work for it, but as I stated, with the Triumphant Armor reward track, plus the warlord boxes from the Bronze Skirmish reward chest (final tier) and you get easy exo gear, or you can easily buy Zerker gear from there as well, which as you stated is not ideal, but it's a start.

 

Honestly, if one were so inclined, a good, cheap starter gear load out, at least for tagging and and staying alive, would be Soldier's gear. You get a full set of it if you boost to 80 and if you didn't, you can get the armor from a karma merchant in Orr, along with full trinkets and backpack and weapons you can get from the dungeon merchant from Ascalonian Catacombs, Sorrow's Embrace and Honor of the Waves, with AC being the easiest of the three to run through and get enough currency to get a couple weapons easy.

 

Get you some damage reducing food and a simple sharpening stone and you're good to go. And all this can be exotic without breaking the bank and you're no longer a glass statue that gets insta-downed. All about builds and load outs.

[yann.1946]

9 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And you have to realize that, unless there's a very good reason why devs might want players to play this specific content over that one, it is of no benefit to anyone except perhaps those that already do play those modes devs push players towards.

 

And in case of raids i really see no such very good reason at all.

Its to get plqyers to plqy different content, that is an inherent advantage to devs.

[yann.1946]

9 hours ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

Hello to you too, lier. I see you're taking words out of context again, yes, very convenient.

 

I haven't played rift in the first place, all i know about it that it's pretty similar to WoW, but i don't even sure about it, so i only may do assumptions. I suppose rift events is a single thing that makes OW of Rift and GW2 somehow similar, but iirc Rift have classic quest system and locations are more story driven which means you guided by quests to see all content and GW2 is more exploration driven, which means OW incentivize you to find things on your own, oh, i don't even know if Rift has things like JPs and mini-dungeons, or if it has level scaling, Sorry, i really don't know anything about Rift to make such comparison.

 

The quote you answered wasn't adressed to you.

 

WoW has raid encounter that imitates PvP fight where mobs don't use aggro system to decide who to attack, so tanks are useless. You can use interrupts, control abilities and basically everything usefull in PvP, WoW for sure capable of encounters that don't need tanks, but don't do so because there's players who dedicated their characters to tank role, and it's not as easy as in gw2 for players to get equipment to do other role that actually needed to beat the encounter, encounters far better tuned for required equipment, unlike in gw2, where you can do half dps of what people push on .snowcrows and still kill bosses just fine if they do all mechanics properly.

Isnt that then a specific difference between wow raid design and gw2 raid design. How you dont need a tank or a healer because nobody needs to dedicate their character to a specific role. More interesting roles can be created etc.

(That seems like a substential difference.)

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 hours ago, Kanok.3027 said:

I mean, ascended armor in fractals is relatively easy to get. The marks can always be crafted, even for the WvW stuff, so it makes it far easier to get them that way and you still don't even have to do fractals for that.

 

Crafting marks is more expensive than crafting it conventionally. Actually with the way Memories of Battle are, even if you got the marks all for free, you would still get it cheaper by crafting.

 

3 hours ago, Kanok.3027 said:

Sure, in WvW, you do have to work for it, but as I stated, with the Triumphant Armor reward track, plus the warlord boxes from the Bronze Skirmish reward chest (final tier) and you get easy exo gear, or you can easily buy Zerker gear from there as well, which as you stated is not ideal, but it's a start.

Warlord boxes are a good source for a more serious player to build up those harder to craft stats like minstrels, trailblazer, and especially celestial for sure.  But once a week is a bit rough for a new player.

 

 

3 hours ago, Kanok.3027 said:

Honestly, if one were so inclined, a good, cheap starter gear load out, at least for tagging and and staying alive, would be Soldier's gear. You get a full set of it if you boost to 80 and if you didn't, you can get the armor from a karma merchant in Orr, along with full trinkets and backpack and weapons you can get from the dungeon merchant from Ascalonian Catacombs, Sorrow's Embrace and Honor of the Waves, with AC being the easiest of the three to run through and get enough currency to get a couple weapons easy.

Soldiers gear is really cheap to buy off the TP atm.

 

Although very new players won't even see this problem if they buy any of the expansions via the level 80 boost and they just get soldiers gear for free.

 

3 hours ago, Kanok.3027 said:

Get you some damage reducing food and a simple sharpening stone and you're good to go. And all this can be exotic without breaking the bank and you're no longer a glass statue that gets insta-downed. All about builds and load outs.

Yea, mostly. I'd probably recommend at least hardened stones but not a big deal either way.

[Gehenna.3625]

11 hours ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

I have a question for you, i crafted legendary backpack around month before, i don't use its skin, i only linked it once in guild chat when i crafted it and i salvaged around 20 ascended backpacks after, some of them didn't even had stats chosen. Why by your opinion did i craft it?

based on the information you gave, I'd say that you like the functionality of being able to swap stats and that's why you had a number of ascended ones that didn't have stats assigned to them so you can use them on the fly when you had to swap stats. And the fact that it ends up being in the armory reinforced that decision I'd say.

 

I won't respond the other part because you're discussing again what you didn't want to discuss and I just said my final piece on it.

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

Its to get plqyers to plqy different content, that is an inherent advantage to devs.

And what, pray tell me, is there for devs in making a player play content X, which they might dislike, over content Y they were already happily playing?

[Mik.3401]

I don’t think it is a good idea, the game is skewed towards PvE far too much already, if they want to fix it they need to make other game modes more rewarding and balanced. And once they are - people will naturally get armies from there

[Dante.1763]

29 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And what, pray tell me, is there for devs in making a player play content X, which they might dislike, over content Y they were already happily playing?

To be fair, i get the concept of pushing players to TRY, different content. Keyword is try, not what we have now, which forces you to main raids. -gag-

 

Wasted 3 hours of my time trying to kill Deimos last night, and i got nothing in return. Good times /s. Coulda spent that 3 hours having fun.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Dante.1763

[Cyninja.2954]

50 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And what, pray tell me, is there for devs in making a player play content X, which they might dislike, over content Y they were already happily playing?

Content X as well as  content Y both have to be made.

 

Getting more players to potentially enjoy content X and Y leaves the developers with more content enjoyed by players. This is true for all content in this game (it just turns out that many hardcore players are more willing to engage with content outside their bubble, then again I know a few hardcore WvW players who absolutely refuse to play any type of PvE).

 

The question thus becomes:

Of how much value is it to encourage/force players out of their comfort zone in order to increase engagement accross multiple content types?

 

That's something only the developers can answer, specifically with their ability to serve the potentially more niche content as well as in relation to where their revenue comes from. If say niche content has a high amount of revenue generating players, or just in general very active players, it might be worthwhile to increase the efficiency of this content development resource wise.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[kharmin.7683]

57 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Wasted 3 hours of my time trying to kill Deimos last night, and i got nothing in return. Good times /s. Coulda spent that 3 hours having fun.

This is why I will never do raids.  My time online is rather limited due to RL.  I'd prefer to enjoy it.  So, I will never get legendary gear and I'm ok with that.

Edited August 23, 2021 by kharmin.7683

[Dante.1763]

8 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

This is why I will never do raids.  My time online is rather limited due to RL.  I'd prefer to enjoy it.  So, I will never get legendary gear and I'm ok with that.

Yup, ill be getting the light armor set and thats it, no other way for me to get legendary armor so *shrug*. guess ill get the rest of the weapons, not that i really need more but im missing a few.

[Astralporing.1957]

26 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Content X as well as  content Y both have to be made.

 

Getting more players to potentially enjoy content X and Y leaves the developers with more content enjoyed by players. This is true for all content in this game (it just turns out that many hardcore players are more willing to engage with content outside their bubble, then again I know a few hardcore WvW players who absolutely refuse to play any type of PvE).

 

The question thus becomes:

Of how much value is it to encourage/force players out of their comfort zone in order to increase engagement accross multiple content types?

 

That's something only the developers can answer, specifically with their ability to serve the potentially more niche content as well as in relation to where their revenue comes from. If say niche content has a high amount of revenue generating players, or just in general very active players, it might be worthwhile to increase the efficiency of this content development resource wise.

Notice the point raised by @Dante.1763 - namely, the difference between encouragement and pushing towards heavy engagement regardless of player satisfaction. The encouragement should never require more than is just enough for players to decide if they like the content or not. Because anything beyond that is likely to backfire in a spectacular way.

[yann.1946]

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And what, pray tell me, is there for devs in making a player play content X, which they might dislike, over content Y they were already happily playing?

Because every content has a shelflife, so hypotheticly if someone would normally would play content X happily for 1000h it might be better for the studio for them to try to make them play content Y even if on average they know only play 900h of content X if they on average play content Y 200h. (Ofcourse the specifics are up for debate in every situation)

 

But you know this already Astral, otherwise you would not be in favor of shallow engagement rewards to try out other gamemodes.

 

[yann.1946]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Notice the point raised by @Dante.1763 - namely, the difference between encouragement and pushing towards heavy engagement regardless of player satisfaction. The encouragement should never require more than is just enough for players to decide if they like the content or not. Because anything beyond that is likely to backfire in a spectacular way.

That boundary is extremely flexible, so any boundary will nessecarily be to much for some people. In conclusion "never require more then is required to decide whether they like content or not" is an sort of true but useless statement, because its to person dependant.

 

Edit: And that is ignoring the cases where people decide they dislike something and after doing it more realize they do enjoy that thing.

Edited August 23, 2021 by yann.1946

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

8 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Crafting marks is more expensive than crafting it conventionally. Actually with the way Memories of Battle are, even if you got the marks all for free, you would still get it cheaper by crafting.

 

Warlord boxes are a good source for a more serious player to build up those harder to craft stats like minstrels, trailblazer, and especially celestial for sure.  But once a week is a bit rough for a new player.

Any and all exotic attributes can be bought on the trading post.  Yes, it's pricey, but that's kind of the point as if facilitates the ingame GW2 economy. 

There's also dungeons for Core Tyria attributes
Verdant Brink for stat selectable exotic gear
And for trinkets, I'm not even going to bother with exotic; ascended has been in the game for ages and is rather easy to come by stat-selectable ascended trinkets.

5 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

This is why I will never do raids.  My time online is rather limited due to RL.  I'd prefer to enjoy it.  So, I will never get legendary gear and I'm ok with that.

This is also why I won't do WvW.  I really don't want to play that game mode like a second job to acquire the tickets to gain legendary armor.

[genjonah.1253]

WvW isn’t for everyone. I get that. That being said, you can legitimately get one legendary armor piece a month doing it, while simultaneously getting other armor skins, weapon skins, gifts of battle, memory’s of battle, and other relatively valuable equipment via the reward tracks. In a year and a half, with the armory now in place, you can go from zero to every character you can possibly create having a full set of legendary armor

 

additionally, exotics and ascended of choosable stats are literally part of that process, allowing one to gear up and try other things as you go

[Gehenna.3625]

15 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

Its to get plqyers to plqy different content, that is an inherent advantage to devs.

Well and then they will find out that gear doesn't make them good automatically. So not sure how many people that's going to be successful for. There is an artificial need for ascended/legendary gear in fractals because you cannot equip agony resistance in exotic gear or below. Not sure why ascended/legendary is needed in raids (I never delved into the topic) but with how marginally better the gear is than exotic, it must be something like it. So if that's the reason, I suspect it will fail to bring many people on board with structured group content.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

8 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Well and then they will find out that gear doesn't make them good automatically. So not sure how many people that's going to be successful for. There is an artificial need for ascended/legendary gear in fractals because you cannot equip agony resistance in exotic gear or below. Not sure why ascended/legendary is needed in raids (I never delved into the topic) but with how marginally better the gear is than exotic, it must be something like it. So if that's the reason, I suspect it will fail to bring many people on board with structured group content.

Ascended for fractals: Obvious.  Agony infusions slot for AR.
Ascended in WvW: 5% edge over someone in full exotics.
Ascended in Raids: 5% edge over someone else in full exotics

This 5% edge is total stats, so it's between someone in full ascended vs someone in full exotics.  If, say, a person with exotic armor but full ascended weapons and trinkets came along, the difference is now negligible outside of fractals.

[Xanadrine.4352]

11 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

This is why I will never do raids.  My time online is rather limited due to RL.  I'd prefer to enjoy it.  So, I will never get legendary gear and I'm ok with that.

Im not okay with it, up till armory was released i was okay with it. But not seeing the QoL given to some players while the rest of the majority dont get it. This goes beyond legendary, they released a system that is amazingly good and beneficial but only a few get to use it. No not okay with it at all.

[Astralporing.1957]

8 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

But you know this already Astral, otherwise you would not be in favor of shallow engagement rewards to try out other gamemodes.

Which is why i was asking about the advantage of forcing a massive engagement, not about shallow one. I know what GoB is for, but i'm quite sure that for that purpose, envoy armor is doing way, way worse job than if it was something requiring a shallow engagement. By being so deeply buried behind massive raid farm, it's actually discouraging people from trying to go for it.

 

8 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

That boundary is extremely flexible, so any boundary will nessecarily be to much for some people. In conclusion "never require more then is required to decide whether they like content or not" is an sort of true but useless statement, because its to person dependant.

Sure, it is flexible, but not to the degree that envoy could ever be considered anything but heavy engagement.

 

8 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

 

Edit: And that is ignoring the cases where people decide they dislike something and after doing it more realize they do enjoy that thing.

That's not a common occurence at all - and in fact i'm quite sure it is way more rare than people deciding they dislike the content, still pushing through due to desire to obtain the bait reward, and then quitting the game due to burnout.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

This 5% edge is total stats

Untrue. 5% is the weapon alone (and without even considering increased stats - barely due to weapon base damage value increase).

[ASP.8093]

1 hour ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Im not okay with it, up till armory was released i was okay with it. But not seeing the QoL given to some players while the rest of the majority dont get it. This goes beyond legendary, they released a system that is amazingly good and beneficial but only a few get to use it. No not okay with it at all.

90% of the convenience comes not from the armory, but from gear templates. If you're not moving gear between the paper doll and your inventory, or — god forbid — between characters, there's very little practical day-to-day different between ascended and legendary.

 

(Anet has, imo, been overly stingy with the gear templates.)

[Vilin.8056]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Which is why i was asking about the advantage of forcing a massive engagement, not about shallow one. I know what GoB is for, but i'm quite sure that for that purpose, envoy armor is doing way, way worse job than if it was something requiring a shallow engagement. By being so deeply buried behind massive raid farm, it's actually discouraging people from trying to go for it.

If placing Legendary Armor behind Raid +WvW +PvP combined is discouraging people from trying, then the problem lies in the playerbase that bars themselves behind such mindset instead of the game system.

 

There is nothing beneficial for Anet to reward such mindset that hinders future development of contents, only to benefit Bot sellers.

 

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Sure, it is flexible, but not to the degree that envoy could ever be considered anything but heavy engagement.

Such is the design, all legendaries are considered heavy engagement. When considering the cost of all 6 legendary armor pieces in a set, it is logical to be a heavier engagement above all.

 

On the other hand, the kind of players with excessive gold, resources and play time to afford a legendary armorset,  yet never ventures outside of open map are already niche to begin with. Baiting them into different game modes is a logical course of action.

 

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's not a common occurence at all - and in fact i'm quite sure it is way more rare than people deciding they dislike the content, still pushing through due to desire to obtain the bait reward, and then quitting the game due to burnout.

Everyone dislikes grind contents, most who kept at it is simply addicted to see progress and reward.

If burnout is a concern for the mass majority, then all the reason to restrict legendary armors to the most hardcore of players.

 

You make it sound like it is a problem for the majority of players, when it comes in reality, is not.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Vilin.8056

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, ASP.8093 said:

90% of the convenience comes not from the armory, but from gear templates. If you're not moving gear between the paper doll and your inventory, or — god forbid — between characters, there's very little practical day-to-day different between ascended and legendary.

 

(Anet has, imo, been overly stingy with the gear templates.)

What's even funnier is if you spend 2000 gems (~600 gold) for 4 more templates, and put 6 sets of ascended (~2000 gold), you would receive more convenience than making legendary armor and be confined to 2 templates. Granted, this would only be character bound and very expensive, but you wouldn't have to do any raiding or w/e.

 

It'd probably be more efficient to spend 1600 gems on 2 extra characters and better to wait for a sale.

 

If one have to swap between more than 6 stats on a single toonr, then I think it's more likely the player just likes clicking buttons and nothing is a good solution atm.

 

People shouldn't really be vying for legendary armor, if they want flexibility in stats. They need to deal with improving  the template system.

Edited August 24, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[mindcircus.1506]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

If one have to swap between more than 6 stats on a single toonr, then I think it's more likely the player just likes clicking buttons and nothing is a good solution atm.

This is a very dismissive and myopic statement.

Classes like Engineer, Necro, Elementalist and Revenant can absolutely use many many stat sets to strong effect. The desire to use and experiment with them is not just a matter of someone who "just likes clicking" but instead a reflection of a player who likes to experiment with different play styles.

 

There are, however, many current viable solutions to this.

Not just one as those in this thread being intellectually dishonest about their desire for a prestige reward would have you believe.