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  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    That build is an easy kill lol. Now p/d is suddenly a problem?
    ps - do you have some kind of rss feed or something to alert you whenever thief related stuff gets posted on youtube? it's hilarious. You could actually be spending all this time creatively thinking about sane fixes for thief players but instead chose to go down the toxic road. Please, if anything see how this isn't a good look.

    Power, Condition and Bunker is how Guild Wars 2 balance itself. Just like everyone else,Thief Profession adjusts itself with the meta of choice.

    The Toxic road in all of this is and why this isn't a good look is...... for the past 8 years......there is nothing new to this

    -No Lessons Were Learned-

    1. Thief Profession can still +1 shot
    2. Thief Profession condition is still Toxic
    3. Thief Profession can still perma-stealth
    4. Thief Profession can still stack stealth
    5. Thief Profession Mechanics and Skills remain Toxic
    6. Thief Profession Teleport continue to be exploitable
    7. Thief Profession is still Bad Design

    The only remedy to this is for a complete redesign or to completely remove this profession altogether

    until than......Guild Wars will never coexist with Toxicity

    As I've said before, you just straight up hate thief. You base your position on that emotional reaction rather than relying on on any logical argument. It's fine to hate the class, just admit it for what it is dude.

    On a more personal note, be careful how you quote the Bible. I don't imagine God likes His words being taken out of context any more than we do.

    As someone indifferent I think thief getting a rework to remove stealth, and give them more interesting/fun tools would be good for everyone.Thieves would feel better and people would probably enjoy fighting them more. Leave stealth to say... one elite spec? Like thats dead-eyes gimick and its strictly tied to them due to the way they function, but core and daredevil rely more on fluid movements and precise strikes. Turn shadow arts into shadow magic, and make them have a form of magic of their very own as it already feels as if it is magic. Make them feel unique to what their aesthetic and role within fantasy, and fantasy worlds are at this stage in the game and make them stand apart from rogues.

    This then would give new E-specs and our current ones a defined role, at least better and more defined with what we have now.

    Core= Brawler, based on under-handed tactics but more sustained fights.
    Daredevil= quicker but squishier, based on shut-down builds and quick bursts followed by escapes.
    Deadeye=Stealthy, burst with limited value due to its single target potential and the fact that stealth can't be stacked or made permanent anymore.
    future=anything

    +10

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    As I stated in another thread adding 10 sec reveal CD on stealth, if thief takes damage would reward good play and punish bad play. A good thief with its evades and teleportation skills should be able to still be able to stack stealth,set up their ambush and attack. After their ambush burst if they use their many evades to avoid being hit they can still stealth and decide to stay engaged or to disengage. If a thief makes a bad play and is hit after its engagement than it should be punished with a 10 sec stealth reveal CD. This still allows a good thief to 100% keep its playstyle and punishes thieves who fail to use their evades to avoid damage.

    What that does is make the permastealth oneshot, or general out of combat stealth remain broken, while making in-combat stealth go from "basically unusable" to "literally unusable". its a terrible idea.

    No what it does is still allows the assassin class enough stealth uptime through stacking to still cover ground to engage with a ambush or for disengagment. If a thief makes a good play and engages with a burst and follows up with its attacks while using its evades properly avoiding damage it suffers zero penalties to its current playstyle but if it is struck gets punished with the 10 sec reveal CD removing one of two of its carry fail safes that allow it to leave any fight before dying at will. If a thief still wants to disengage during that cooldown it will have its teleports via utilities or infiltrator arrow.
    This allows a good thief to keep its playstyle that its accustomed to throughout all these years but punishes it slightly if mistakes are made.

    Yes, thats what I said. It makes out of combat stealth remain untouched, and in-combat stealth even more useless. Despite the fact that out of combat stealth is the problem, and in-combat stealth is already useless. Besides you seem to think its at all doable to avoid 100% of damage as a thief after bursting (or even while bursting). Spoiler: Its not. At all. You might as well just say "stealth can now only be used out of combat for cheesy oneshots". Which is one of the changes that would make stealths design even worse than it already is.

    Oh and it breaks a couple Mesmer and Engineer skills.

    Out of combat stealth isn't really a issue, a assassin class should be able set up ambushes etc.

    Out of Combat stealth is the only issue. Dying from a oneshot from an enemy you never even knew was there is just bad design. You should always at least have the option to know theyre there and prepare yourself, rather than just having to be effectively paranoid every second of play.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    That build is an easy kill lol. Now p/d is suddenly a problem?
    ps - do you have some kind of rss feed or something to alert you whenever thief related stuff gets posted on youtube? it's hilarious. You could actually be spending all this time creatively thinking about sane fixes for thief players but instead chose to go down the toxic road. Please, if anything see how this isn't a good look.

    Power, Condition and Bunker is how Guild Wars 2 balance itself. Just like everyone else,Thief Profession adjusts itself with the meta of choice.

    The Toxic road in all of this is and why this isn't a good look is...... for the past 8 years......there is nothing new to this

    -No Lessons Were Learned-

    1. Thief Profession can still +1 shot
    2. Thief Profession condition is still Toxic
    3. Thief Profession can still perma-stealth
    4. Thief Profession can still stack stealth
    5. Thief Profession Mechanics and Skills remain Toxic
    6. Thief Profession Teleport continue to be exploitable
    7. Thief Profession is still Bad Design

    The only remedy to this is for a complete redesign or to completely remove this profession altogether

    until than......Guild Wars will never coexist with Toxicity

    As I've said before, you just straight up hate thief. You base your position on that emotional reaction rather than relying on on any logical argument. It's fine to hate the class, just admit it for what it is dude.

    On a more personal note, be careful how you quote the Bible. I don't imagine God likes His words being taken out of context any more than we do.

    As someone indifferent I think thief getting a rework to remove stealth, and give them more interesting/fun tools would be good for everyone. Thieves would feel better and people would probably enjoy fighting them more. Leave stealth to say... one elite spec? Like thats dead-eyes gimick and its strictly tied to them due to the way they function, but core and daredevil rely more on fluid movements and precise strikes. Turn shadow arts into shadow magic, and make them have a form of magic of their very own as it already feels as if it is magic. Make them feel unique to what their aesthetic and role within fantasy, and fantasy worlds are at this stage in the game and make them stand apart from rogues.

    This then would give new E-specs and our current ones a defined role, at least better and more defined with what we have now.

    Core= Brawler, based on under-handed tactics but more sustained fights.
    Daredevil= quicker but squishier, based on shut-down builds and quick bursts followed by escapes.
    Deadeye=Stealthy, burst with limited value due to its single target potential and the fact that stealth can't be stacked or made permanent anymore.
    future=anything

    Using personal and group stealth is interesting and fun. I would not feel good about losing stealth entirely apart from the one build that has enough re-stealth effects and both obvious visual and audible tells to be shut down consistently but it being so obvious makes it the build that gets other builds nerfed by consequence. I don't find sparkly clowds of particle effects interesting or fun but in no way am I going to expect someone else's game play to be squashed because I need a handicap.

    Im not asking for any of that, im merely stating that stealth needs to be far more limited. I don't care either way I love chasing down thieves regardless of the outcome; The thrill of the hunt and all that. But still I do understand peoples gripes, its annoying for a thief to go stealth and then be so far off that they just port due to being out of combat especially durring a fun encounter.

    I say give them a more brawler style, make them more like a faster more kill focused warrior. Warrior is about attrition a lot of the time; Where as thief should at least in core be about blitzing you with lightning fast attacks. It shouldn't be limited to stealthing which most of the time is what all thieves do, they all run stealth and they all run it because its their most useful tool. Giving them better tools and making stealth a limited gimmick means its easier to balance the class; As a Rev player I empathize with you but this is the same argument that has been made against my class every-time the prune it of its unique depth. So sadly Sometimes we just have to compromise and submit to the fact, that our unique flavor may not be healthy for the over-all game. (I do agree it shouldn't matter, but thats not the world we live in.)

    For the record I love thieves, im leveling one currently infact. So don't take this as a slight~

    No, actually, most thief builds dont run stealth. Hell, until the second half of last year, no thief build ran stealth, because in-combat stealth was bad, and out of combat stealth wasnt good enough either. Instead it was D/P Headshot, S/D thief, S/P thief (rarely) and various condi thieves. Believe me, it did not stop people from complaining about thieves at all. Even right now, thieves largely only use stealth for out of combat burst, because its too risky in-combat.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    That build is an easy kill lol. Now p/d is suddenly a problem?
    ps - do you have some kind of rss feed or something to alert you whenever thief related stuff gets posted on youtube? it's hilarious. You could actually be spending all this time creatively thinking about sane fixes for thief players but instead chose to go down the toxic road. Please, if anything see how this isn't a good look.

    Power, Condition and Bunker is how Guild Wars 2 balance itself. Just like everyone else,Thief Profession adjusts itself with the meta of choice.

    The Toxic road in all of this is and why this isn't a good look is...... for the past 8 years......there is nothing new to this

    -No Lessons Were Learned-

    1. Thief Profession can still +1 shot
    2. Thief Profession condition is still Toxic
    3. Thief Profession can still perma-stealth
    4. Thief Profession can still stack stealth
    5. Thief Profession Mechanics and Skills remain Toxic
    6. Thief Profession Teleport continue to be exploitable
    7. Thief Profession is still Bad Design

    The only remedy to this is for a complete redesign or to completely remove this profession altogether

    until than......Guild Wars will never coexist with Toxicity

    As I've said before, you just straight up hate thief. You base your position on that emotional reaction rather than relying on on any logical argument. It's fine to hate the class, just admit it for what it is dude.

    On a more personal note, be careful how you quote the Bible. I don't imagine God likes His words being taken out of context any more than we do.

    As someone indifferent I think thief getting a rework to remove stealth, and give them more interesting/fun tools would be good for everyone. Thieves would feel better and people would probably enjoy fighting them more. Leave stealth to say... one elite spec? Like thats dead-eyes gimick and its strictly tied to them due to the way they function, but core and daredevil rely more on fluid movements and precise strikes. Turn shadow arts into shadow magic, and make them have a form of magic of their very own as it already feels as if it is magic. Make them feel unique to what their aesthetic and role within fantasy, and fantasy worlds are at this stage in the game and make them stand apart from rogues.

    This then would give new E-specs and our current ones a defined role, at least better and more defined with what we have now.

    Core= Brawler, based on under-handed tactics but more sustained fights.
    Daredevil= quicker but squishier, based on shut-down builds and quick bursts followed by escapes.
    Deadeye=Stealthy, burst with limited value due to its single target potential and the fact that stealth can't be stacked or made permanent anymore.
    future=anything

    Using personal and group stealth is interesting and fun. I would not feel good about losing stealth entirely apart from the one build that has enough re-stealth effects and both obvious visual and audible tells to be shut down consistently but it being so obvious makes it the build that gets other builds nerfed by consequence. I don't find sparkly clowds of particle effects interesting or fun but in no way am I going to expect someone else's game play to be squashed because I need a handicap.

    Im not asking for any of that, im merely stating that stealth needs to be far more limited. I don't care either way I love chasing down thieves regardless of the outcome; The thrill of the hunt and all that. But still I do understand peoples gripes, its annoying for a thief to go stealth and then be so far off that they just port due to being out of combat especially durring a fun encounter.

    I say give them a more brawler style, make them more like a faster more kill focused warrior. Warrior is about attrition a lot of the time; Where as thief should at least in core be about blitzing you with lightning fast attacks. It shouldn't be limited to stealthing which most of the time is what all thieves do, they all run stealth and they all run it because its their most useful tool. Giving them better tools and making stealth a limited gimmick means its easier to balance the class; As a Rev player I empathize with you but this is the same argument that has been made against my class every-time the prune it of its unique depth. So sadly Sometimes we just have to compromise and submit to the fact, that our unique flavor may not be healthy for the over-all game. (I do agree it shouldn't matter, but thats not the world we live in.)

    For the record I love thieves, im leveling one currently infact. So don't take this as a slight~

    No, actually, most thief builds dont run stealth. Hell, until the second half of last year, no thief build ran stealth, because in-combat stealth was bad, and out of combat stealth wasnt good enough either. Instead it was D/P Headshot, S/D thief, S/P thief (rarely) and various condi thieves. Believe me, it did not stop people from complaining about thieves at all. Even right now, thieves largely only use stealth for out of combat burst, because its too risky in-combat.

    I mean I know those feels, but still... I had to accept the homogenization and im sure thieves will too. Just... try not to take it to hard. I do empathize with you though~

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    That build is an easy kill lol. Now p/d is suddenly a problem?
    ps - do you have some kind of rss feed or something to alert you whenever thief related stuff gets posted on youtube? it's hilarious. You could actually be spending all this time creatively thinking about sane fixes for thief players but instead chose to go down the toxic road. Please, if anything see how this isn't a good look.

    Power, Condition and Bunker is how Guild Wars 2 balance itself. Just like everyone else,Thief Profession adjusts itself with the meta of choice.

    The Toxic road in all of this is and why this isn't a good look is...... for the past 8 years......there is nothing new to this

    -No Lessons Were Learned-

    1. Thief Profession can still +1 shot
    2. Thief Profession condition is still Toxic
    3. Thief Profession can still perma-stealth
    4. Thief Profession can still stack stealth
    5. Thief Profession Mechanics and Skills remain Toxic
    6. Thief Profession Teleport continue to be exploitable
    7. Thief Profession is still Bad Design

    The only remedy to this is for a complete redesign or to completely remove this profession altogether

    until than......Guild Wars will never coexist with Toxicity

    As I've said before, you just straight up hate thief. You base your position on that emotional reaction rather than relying on on any logical argument. It's fine to hate the class, just admit it for what it is dude.

    On a more personal note, be careful how you quote the Bible. I don't imagine God likes His words being taken out of context any more than we do.

    As someone indifferent I think thief getting a rework to remove stealth, and give them more interesting/fun tools would be good for everyone. Thieves would feel better and people would probably enjoy fighting them more. Leave stealth to say... one elite spec? Like thats dead-eyes gimick and its strictly tied to them due to the way they function, but core and daredevil rely more on fluid movements and precise strikes. Turn shadow arts into shadow magic, and make them have a form of magic of their very own as it already feels as if it is magic. Make them feel unique to what their aesthetic and role within fantasy, and fantasy worlds are at this stage in the game and make them stand apart from rogues.

    This then would give new E-specs and our current ones a defined role, at least better and more defined with what we have now.

    Core= Brawler, based on under-handed tactics but more sustained fights.
    Daredevil= quicker but squishier, based on shut-down builds and quick bursts followed by escapes.
    Deadeye=Stealthy, burst with limited value due to its single target potential and the fact that stealth can't be stacked or made permanent anymore.
    future=anything

    Using personal and group stealth is interesting and fun. I would not feel good about losing stealth entirely apart from the one build that has enough re-stealth effects and both obvious visual and audible tells to be shut down consistently but it being so obvious makes it the build that gets other builds nerfed by consequence. I don't find sparkly clowds of particle effects interesting or fun but in no way am I going to expect someone else's game play to be squashed because I need a handicap.

    Im not asking for any of that, im merely stating that stealth needs to be far more limited. I don't care either way I love chasing down thieves regardless of the outcome; The thrill of the hunt and all that. But still I do understand peoples gripes, its annoying for a thief to go stealth and then be so far off that they just port due to being out of combat especially durring a fun encounter.

    I say give them a more brawler style, make them more like a faster more kill focused warrior. Warrior is about attrition a lot of the time; Where as thief should at least in core be about blitzing you with lightning fast attacks. It shouldn't be limited to stealthing which most of the time is what all thieves do, they all run stealth and they all run it because its their most useful tool. Giving them better tools and making stealth a limited gimmick means its easier to balance the class; As a Rev player I empathize with you but this is the same argument that has been made against my class every-time the prune it of its unique depth. So sadly Sometimes we just have to compromise and submit to the fact, that our unique flavor may not be healthy for the over-all game. (I do agree it shouldn't matter, but thats not the world we live in.)

    For the record I love thieves, im leveling one currently infact. So don't take this as a slight~

    No, actually, most thief builds dont run stealth. Hell, until the second half of last year, no thief build ran stealth, because in-combat stealth was bad, and out of combat stealth wasnt good enough either. Instead it was D/P Headshot, S/D thief, S/P thief (rarely) and various condi thieves. Believe me, it did not stop people from complaining about thieves at all. Even right now, thieves largely only use stealth for out of combat burst, because its too risky in-combat.

    I mean I know those feels, but still... I had to accept the homogenization and im sure thieves will too. Just... try not to take it to hard. I do empathize with you though~

    I mean your theoretical option would at least make thief a good 1v1 class. Sadly, theyre not. At all. And I dont think theyre going to be as long as shortbow 5 exists. If there is one fundamental problem thief suffers from, its that one damned weaponset.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    They should just add a 3 second reveal whenever thief comes out of stealth, even when stealth just expires. Also stealth should not stack. This would turn stealth more into a tactical combat tool instead of the unbalanced and unfun mechanic it is currently.

    That would just kill in-combat stealth which is already dead, while not affecting out of combat stealth. Stealth not stacking however would work. Do that, and in-combat stealth can be buffed to be a viable choice rather than the joke it has been for years.

    In combat stealth is not joke , you simply dont know how it works

    It is a joke. I know how it works, you clearly dont (though you also clearly just dont know anything about thief in general, given that you think Quick Pockets is better than Sleight of Hand). Why do you think no thief build actually goes for in-combat stealth, and why it is no thief build actively focused on stealth at all for 4 years? Like seriously, from HoT to the first half of last year, no stealth thief build existed at all. D/P focused entirely on headshot. The only one that was was permastealth oneshot cheese, but that one either killed you instantly, or died instantly, with no in-between. It didnt use stealth either. Oh and it wasnt actually good. Just really frustrating.

    Dota has 12-20 sec cd , in each class
    Giving theopponent enought time to box it out with the stealth guy , before he vanish

    Actually, Riki restealths every 2 seconds. Shukuchi only has 2 seconds between stealth uses. And the other ones have stealth durations that last longer than the cooldown, so they can exit stealth and immediately reenter it.

    First of all you said to see Dota that is n e-sport game .
    Why you turn around and simply go circular discussion again ?

    I am trying to explain to you what you dont understand.

    Dota has 12-20 sec cd
    Lets copy it

    It doesnt. 2 seconds on Weaver and Riki. The only ones that have 12-20 second cd are the ones whose duration is so long, they can be in stealth and have it off cooldown. In simpler terms, they can go out of stealth, kill you, and stealth instantly.

    Yeah Riki and they have a slight animation oprotunity , wherehe doesn go sstealth imidiatly ?
    Why not do this here too ?

    .... Revealed. Youre thinking of revealed. Youre describing Revealed.

    Look the dota page
    If he atacks for 1 sec > he wont get stealth
    If he gain stealth , he cannot attack for an extra sec
    He cannot also dodge .
    So for 2 sec can freely punish him with aoes and if get freezed he cannotgo far

    No, actually, if he gains stealth he can attack immediately. The only time you can hit him without him being in stealth is the 2 seconds between stealth. Oh, except even then he has a talent for permanent invisibility, which makes even that not work.

    This is what + Fade (delay stealth) we must implant
    Plus potions or jungle Buffs to see the enemy siluet , regadles if he has stealth

    We dont have to implement it, because its already implemented. There is no way to gain stealth without a delay (other than a trait noone uses) on thief. I hate repeating myself, so Im not going to do it again.

    Yes those 2 sec are enought
    We should put that in the GW2 version , where for 2 sec you can free-damage him without worring if he damage from the Back or sides

    Aslong the thief has put the Black Powder down , there in no 0,75 sec cast time needed ...you simply cast Heartseeker
    Eben so we must increase the cast time in 1 sec to match the Dota , giving more reaction oprotunities
    Also put True Vision Buffs to see the stealth guy from afar+ regadles of how many he tries to stealth

    Hellsing Abridged.First5minsux. JapAudio: Soul Eater, Arpeggio of Blue Steel,Code Geass
    Seto no Hanayome(startfrom2ndep), Baka to Test,Pani Pon,He Is My Master(2nd) ,Azumanga Daioh
    Kamen no Maid Guy, Kenichi, Ouran Koukou,Yamato Nadeshiko, Rosario+Vampire(2nd)Haré+Guu(5th), AIR MASTER!!!

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭

    Nerf Thief, sincerely Mesmer.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    That build is an easy kill lol. Now p/d is suddenly a problem?
    ps - do you have some kind of rss feed or something to alert you whenever thief related stuff gets posted on youtube? it's hilarious. You could actually be spending all this time creatively thinking about sane fixes for thief players but instead chose to go down the toxic road. Please, if anything see how this isn't a good look.

    Power, Condition and Bunker is how Guild Wars 2 balance itself. Just like everyone else,Thief Profession adjusts itself with the meta of choice.

    The Toxic road in all of this is and why this isn't a good look is...... for the past 8 years......there is nothing new to this

    -No Lessons Were Learned-

    1. Thief Profession can still +1 shot
    2. Thief Profession condition is still Toxic
    3. Thief Profession can still perma-stealth
    4. Thief Profession can still stack stealth
    5. Thief Profession Mechanics and Skills remain Toxic
    6. Thief Profession Teleport continue to be exploitable
    7. Thief Profession is still Bad Design

    The only remedy to this is for a complete redesign or to completely remove this profession altogether

    until than......Guild Wars will never coexist with Toxicity

    As I've said before, you just straight up hate thief. You base your position on that emotional reaction rather than relying on on any logical argument. It's fine to hate the class, just admit it for what it is dude.

    On a more personal note, be careful how you quote the Bible. I don't imagine God likes His words being taken out of context any more than we do.

    As someone indifferent I think thief getting a rework to remove stealth, and give them more interesting/fun tools would be good for everyone. Thieves would feel better and people would probably enjoy fighting them more. Leave stealth to say... one elite spec? Like thats dead-eyes gimick and its strictly tied to them due to the way they function, but core and daredevil rely more on fluid movements and precise strikes. Turn shadow arts into shadow magic, and make them have a form of magic of their very own as it already feels as if it is magic. Make them feel unique to what their aesthetic and role within fantasy, and fantasy worlds are at this stage in the game and make them stand apart from rogues.

    This then would give new E-specs and our current ones a defined role, at least better and more defined with what we have now.

    Core= Brawler, based on under-handed tactics but more sustained fights.
    Daredevil= quicker but squishier, based on shut-down builds and quick bursts followed by escapes.
    Deadeye=Stealthy, burst with limited value due to its single target potential and the fact that stealth can't be stacked or made permanent anymore.
    future=anything

    Using personal and group stealth is interesting and fun. I would not feel good about losing stealth entirely apart from the one build that has enough re-stealth effects and both obvious visual and audible tells to be shut down consistently but it being so obvious makes it the build that gets other builds nerfed by consequence. I don't find sparkly clowds of particle effects interesting or fun but in no way am I going to expect someone else's game play to be squashed because I need a handicap.

    Im not asking for any of that, im merely stating that stealth needs to be far more limited. I don't care either way I love chasing down thieves regardless of the outcome; The thrill of the hunt and all that. But still I do understand peoples gripes, its annoying for a thief to go stealth and then be so far off that they just port due to being out of combat especially durring a fun encounter.

    I say give them a more brawler style, make them more like a faster more kill focused warrior. Warrior is about attrition a lot of the time; Where as thief should at least in core be about blitzing you with lightning fast attacks. It shouldn't be limited to stealthing which most of the time is what all thieves do, they all run stealth and they all run it because its their most useful tool. Giving them better tools and making stealth a limited gimmick means its easier to balance the class; As a Rev player I empathize with you but this is the same argument that has been made against my class every-time the prune it of its unique depth. So sadly Sometimes we just have to compromise and submit to the fact, that our unique flavor may not be healthy for the over-all game. (I do agree it shouldn't matter, but thats not the world we live in.)

    For the record I love thieves, im leveling one currently infact. So don't take this as a slight~

    But you said thief should get a rework to remove stealth for something else. Thieves only need about 3-5 seconds of in combat stealth for both solo and groups, we only have to keep stacking of long duration stealth out of combat and not achievable while in combat. After that if people don't want to bite it from a Shadowstep Malicous Backstab or something then they can adjust their stats like I do for the many ways other classes and builds can nuke me and if they don't want the thief to get away and 'reset' they can pack some control like pulls and interrupts, like I do, for other classes and other thieves. We don't need a convoluted rework and stealth isn't our most useful tool, Initiative is although that's been chipped away at also.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2020

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Nerf Thief, sincerely Mesmer.

    infact, both Thief/Mesmer Professions need to be completely redesigned from the ground up instead of having years of wasteful unresolved with unworthy 'nerfs'

    ex-it is like forcing to change water to turn into oil which will never happen because their identities and root cores will never allow it

    -Nerfing must no longer be an option for them because their designs will not allow it-

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Professions_reveal
    Mesmer was the last Profession to be revealed in Guild Wars 2

    without Mesmer/Gwen....there would not be Guild Wars.....franchise.. It is crucial for Mesmer Profession identity to be return to its root core to preserve Guild Wars name

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Whoa whoa, that's a bit of a stretch lol.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    As I stated in another thread adding 10 sec reveal CD on stealth, if thief takes damage would reward good play and punish bad play. A good thief with its evades and teleportation skills should be able to still be able to stack stealth,set up their ambush and attack. After their ambush burst if they use their many evades to avoid being hit they can still stealth and decide to stay engaged or to disengage. If a thief makes a bad play and is hit after its engagement than it should be punished with a 10 sec stealth reveal CD. This still allows a good thief to 100% keep its playstyle and punishes thieves who fail to use their evades to avoid damage.

    What that does is make the permastealth oneshot, or general out of combat stealth remain broken, while making in-combat stealth go from "basically unusable" to "literally unusable". its a terrible idea.

    No what it does is still allows the assassin class enough stealth uptime through stacking to still cover ground to engage with a ambush or for disengagment. If a thief makes a good play and engages with a burst and follows up with its attacks while using its evades properly avoiding damage it suffers zero penalties to its current playstyle but if it is struck gets punished with the 10 sec reveal CD removing one of two of its carry fail safes that allow it to leave any fight before dying at will. If a thief still wants to disengage during that cooldown it will have its teleports via utilities or infiltrator arrow.
    This allows a good thief to keep its playstyle that its accustomed to throughout all these years but punishes it slightly if mistakes are made.

    Yes, thats what I said. It makes out of combat stealth remain untouched, and in-combat stealth even more useless. Despite the fact that out of combat stealth is the problem, and in-combat stealth is already useless. Besides you seem to think its at all doable to avoid 100% of damage as a thief after bursting (or even while bursting). Spoiler: Its not. At all. You might as well just say "stealth can now only be used out of combat for cheesy oneshots". Which is one of the changes that would make stealths design even worse than it already is.

    Oh and it breaks a couple Mesmer and Engineer skills.

    Out of combat stealth isn't really a issue, a assassin class should be able set up ambushes etc.

    Out of Combat stealth is the only issue. Dying from a oneshot from an enemy you never even knew was there is just bad design. You should always at least have the option to know theyre there and prepare yourself, rather than just having to be effectively paranoid every second of play.

    Lol right. Cuz if stealth would literally pointless if it was such a short duration the opponent would always know it's coming and with this games ridiculous amount of ways to mitigate a burst a thief's ambush would be wasted 99% of the time. If stealth was limited to 3-5 sec it would actually be a death sentence to use it as a pre burst mechanic. At that point u might as well just delete the mechanic and have a stealthless rogue class. Any time a opponent say a thief go invisibile which they would with short out of combat stealth they'd simply count down the time and use their many mitigation skills to simply avoid the burst.
    U guys keep saying stealth burst are free damage but that just isn't true especially with all the blocks, invulnerability, barriers and aegis that's easily accessible to most classes. Some classes like core necro or even tanky built reapers can just say f it and wait for u to backstab knowing ur just gonna tickle them before the follow up with axe skill that takes 50 of ur hp than life drain 25% in seconds and if u get them to 50% oh no shroud up lmao.
    Honestly for a assassin class as much as u players complain as it stands right now thief actually needs a burst buff or a lot of classes need a big sustain nerf. I'm speaking to thief dos out side of very un common numbers from full malice mbs which obviously things should be tweaked so they in know way should reach more than 8k. With that said on a DD/trick/SA build with berserk/scholars and assassin signet I should be doing more than 2.5k-3.2k burst. That's way to low compared to the sustain lv of the classes in the game right now and many classes that have crazy sustain tank builds are doing those burst numbers themselves easy.
    The game needed everything lowered but balance is still way off and needs a lot of tweaks.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    They should just add a 3 second reveal whenever thief comes out of stealth, even when stealth just expires. Also stealth should not stack. This would turn stealth more into a tactical combat tool instead of the unbalanced and unfun mechanic it is currently.

    That would just kill in-combat stealth which is already dead, while not affecting out of combat stealth. Stealth not stacking however would work. Do that, and in-combat stealth can be buffed to be a viable choice rather than the joke it has been for years.

    In combat stealth is not joke , you simply dont know how it works

    It is a joke. I know how it works, you clearly dont (though you also clearly just dont know anything about thief in general, given that you think Quick Pockets is better than Sleight of Hand). Why do you think no thief build actually goes for in-combat stealth, and why it is no thief build actively focused on stealth at all for 4 years? Like seriously, from HoT to the first half of last year, no stealth thief build existed at all. D/P focused entirely on headshot. The only one that was was permastealth oneshot cheese, but that one either killed you instantly, or died instantly, with no in-between. It didnt use stealth either. Oh and it wasnt actually good. Just really frustrating.

    Dota has 12-20 sec cd , in each class
    Giving theopponent enought time to box it out with the stealth guy , before he vanish

    Actually, Riki restealths every 2 seconds. Shukuchi only has 2 seconds between stealth uses. And the other ones have stealth durations that last longer than the cooldown, so they can exit stealth and immediately reenter it.

    First of all you said to see Dota that is n e-sport game .
    Why you turn around and simply go circular discussion again ?

    I am trying to explain to you what you dont understand.

    Dota has 12-20 sec cd
    Lets copy it

    It doesnt. 2 seconds on Weaver and Riki. The only ones that have 12-20 second cd are the ones whose duration is so long, they can be in stealth and have it off cooldown. In simpler terms, they can go out of stealth, kill you, and stealth instantly.

    Yeah Riki and they have a slight animation oprotunity , wherehe doesn go sstealth imidiatly ?
    Why not do this here too ?

    .... Revealed. Youre thinking of revealed. Youre describing Revealed.

    Look the dota page
    If he atacks for 1 sec > he wont get stealth
    If he gain stealth , he cannot attack for an extra sec
    He cannot also dodge .
    So for 2 sec can freely punish him with aoes and if get freezed he cannotgo far

    No, actually, if he gains stealth he can attack immediately. The only time you can hit him without him being in stealth is the 2 seconds between stealth. Oh, except even then he has a talent for permanent invisibility, which makes even that not work.

    This is what + Fade (delay stealth) we must implant
    Plus potions or jungle Buffs to see the enemy siluet , regadles if he has stealth

    We dont have to implement it, because its already implemented. There is no way to gain stealth without a delay (other than a trait noone uses) on thief. I hate repeating myself, so Im not going to do it again.

    Fine, one last one. Because I hate it when people dont get it.

    Yes those 2 sec are enought
    We should put that in the GW2 version , where for 2 sec you can free-damage him without worring if he damage from the Back or sides

    You have those 2 seconds in GW2. Theyre called "revealed" and "Cast times". So already put. As such, you surely agree that nothing needs to be done, right? Yes? Good.

    Aslong the thief has put the Black Powder down , there in no 0,75 sec cast time needed ...you simply cast Heartseeker
    Eben so we must increase the cast time in 1 sec to match the Dota , giving more reaction oprotunities

    "As long as the thief has already cast the thing he needed to cast first, we can ignore its cast time" yeah, no, thats stupid. The thief has to cast Black Powder, and Heart Seeker. Thats 0.5 + 0.75 = 1.25 seconds. Oh look, thats more than 1 second. Once again you then agree that nothing needs to be done. Yes? Good. Glad we got this sorted out.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    As I stated in another thread adding 10 sec reveal CD on stealth, if thief takes damage would reward good play and punish bad play. A good thief with its evades and teleportation skills should be able to still be able to stack stealth,set up their ambush and attack. After their ambush burst if they use their many evades to avoid being hit they can still stealth and decide to stay engaged or to disengage. If a thief makes a bad play and is hit after its engagement than it should be punished with a 10 sec stealth reveal CD. This still allows a good thief to 100% keep its playstyle and punishes thieves who fail to use their evades to avoid damage.

    What that does is make the permastealth oneshot, or general out of combat stealth remain broken, while making in-combat stealth go from "basically unusable" to "literally unusable". its a terrible idea.

    No what it does is still allows the assassin class enough stealth uptime through stacking to still cover ground to engage with a ambush or for disengagment. If a thief makes a good play and engages with a burst and follows up with its attacks while using its evades properly avoiding damage it suffers zero penalties to its current playstyle but if it is struck gets punished with the 10 sec reveal CD removing one of two of its carry fail safes that allow it to leave any fight before dying at will. If a thief still wants to disengage during that cooldown it will have its teleports via utilities or infiltrator arrow.
    This allows a good thief to keep its playstyle that its accustomed to throughout all these years but punishes it slightly if mistakes are made.

    Yes, thats what I said. It makes out of combat stealth remain untouched, and in-combat stealth even more useless. Despite the fact that out of combat stealth is the problem, and in-combat stealth is already useless. Besides you seem to think its at all doable to avoid 100% of damage as a thief after bursting (or even while bursting). Spoiler: Its not. At all. You might as well just say "stealth can now only be used out of combat for cheesy oneshots". Which is one of the changes that would make stealths design even worse than it already is.

    Oh and it breaks a couple Mesmer and Engineer skills.

    Out of combat stealth isn't really a issue, a assassin class should be able set up ambushes etc.

    Out of Combat stealth is the only issue. Dying from a oneshot from an enemy you never even knew was there is just bad design. You should always at least have the option to know theyre there and prepare yourself, rather than just having to be effectively paranoid every second of play.

    Lol right. Cuz if stealth would literally pointless if it was such a short duration the opponent would always know it's coming and with this games ridiculous amount of ways to mitigate a burst a thief's ambush would be wasted 99% of the time. If stealth was limited to 3-5 sec it would actually be a death sentence to use it as a pre burst mechanic. At that point u might as well just delete the mechanic and have a stealthless rogue class. Any time a opponent say a thief go invisibile which they would with short out of combat stealth they'd simply count down the time and use their many mitigation skills to simply avoid the burst.

    The purpose of stealth in this scenario would be quick repositioning and brief damage mitigation. That would still be useful. Even if your backstab wouldnt hit. Besides, if backstab has more counterplay, it too can be buffed. And yeah, out of combat stealth wouldnt be much of a thing. I dare say tha tthat is rather the point.

    U guys keep saying stealth burst are free damage but that just isn't true especially with all the blocks, invulnerability, barriers and aegis that's easily accessible to most classes. Some classes like core necro or even tanky built reapers can just say f it and wait for u to backstab knowing ur just gonna tickle them before the follow up with axe skill that takes 50 of ur hp than life drain 25% in seconds and if u get them to 50% oh no shroud up lmao.

    And some die instantly without having much chance to do anything. Thats not fun for anyone involved. Thats why out of combat stealth is a problem, even if it would only hit a small part of the playerbase.

    Honestly for a assassin class as much as u players complain as it stands right now thief actually needs a burst buff or a lot of classes need a big sustain nerf. I'm speaking to thief dos out side of very un common numbers from full malice mbs which obviously things should be tweaked so they in know way should reach more than 8k. With that said on a DD/trick/SA build with berserk/scholars and assassin signet I should be doing more than 2.5k-3.2k burst. That's way to low compared to the sustain lv of the classes in the game right now and many classes that have crazy sustain tank builds are doing those burst numbers themselves easy.

    I wouldnt mind thieves burst being buffed. Especially after Assassins Signet got that "bugfix" that was a massive nerf. But it needs to be done when players have a real chance to react to the backstab, or the thief in general.

    The game needed everything lowered but balance is still way off and needs a lot of tweaks.

    No disagreements here.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    As I stated in another thread adding 10 sec reveal CD on stealth, if thief takes damage would reward good play and punish bad play. A good thief with its evades and teleportation skills should be able to still be able to stack stealth,set up their ambush and attack. After their ambush burst if they use their many evades to avoid being hit they can still stealth and decide to stay engaged or to disengage. If a thief makes a bad play and is hit after its engagement than it should be punished with a 10 sec stealth reveal CD. This still allows a good thief to 100% keep its playstyle and punishes thieves who fail to use their evades to avoid damage.

    What that does is make the permastealth oneshot, or general out of combat stealth remain broken, while making in-combat stealth go from "basically unusable" to "literally unusable". its a terrible idea.

    No what it does is still allows the assassin class enough stealth uptime through stacking to still cover ground to engage with a ambush or for disengagment. If a thief makes a good play and engages with a burst and follows up with its attacks while using its evades properly avoiding damage it suffers zero penalties to its current playstyle but if it is struck gets punished with the 10 sec reveal CD removing one of two of its carry fail safes that allow it to leave any fight before dying at will. If a thief still wants to disengage during that cooldown it will have its teleports via utilities or infiltrator arrow.
    This allows a good thief to keep its playstyle that its accustomed to throughout all these years but punishes it slightly if mistakes are made.

    Yes, thats what I said. It makes out of combat stealth remain untouched, and in-combat stealth even more useless. Despite the fact that out of combat stealth is the problem, and in-combat stealth is already useless. Besides you seem to think its at all doable to avoid 100% of damage as a thief after bursting (or even while bursting). Spoiler: Its not. At all. You might as well just say "stealth can now only be used out of combat for cheesy oneshots". Which is one of the changes that would make stealths design even worse than it already is.

    Oh and it breaks a couple Mesmer and Engineer skills.

    Out of combat stealth isn't really a issue, a assassin class should be able set up ambushes etc.

    Out of Combat stealth is the only issue. Dying from a oneshot from an enemy you never even knew was there is just bad design. You should always at least have the option to know theyre there and prepare yourself, rather than just having to be effectively paranoid every second of play.

    Lol right. Cuz if stealth would literally pointless if it was such a short duration the opponent would always know it's coming and with this games ridiculous amount of ways to mitigate a burst a thief's ambush would be wasted 99% of the time. If stealth was limited to 3-5 sec it would actually be a death sentence to use it as a pre burst mechanic. At that point u might as well just delete the mechanic and have a stealthless rogue class. Any time a opponent say a thief go invisibile which they would with short out of combat stealth they'd simply count down the time and use their many mitigation skills to simply avoid the burst.

    The purpose of stealth in this scenario would be quick repositioning and brief damage mitigation. That would still be useful. Even if your backstab wouldnt hit. Besides, if backstab has more counterplay, it too can be buffed. And yeah, out of combat stealth wouldnt be much of a thing. I dare say tha tthat is rather the point.

    U guys keep saying stealth burst are free damage but that just isn't true especially with all the blocks, invulnerability, barriers and aegis that's easily accessible to most classes. Some classes like core necro or even tanky built reapers can just say f it and wait for u to backstab knowing ur just gonna tickle them before the follow up with axe skill that takes 50 of ur hp than life drain 25% in seconds and if u get them to 50% oh no shroud up lmao.

    And some die instantly without having much chance to do anything. Thats not fun for anyone involved. Thats why out of combat stealth is a problem, even if it would only hit a small part of the playerbase.

    Honestly for a assassin class as much as u players complain as it stands right now thief actually needs a burst buff or a lot of classes need a big sustain nerf. I'm speaking to thief dos out side of very un common numbers from full malice mbs which obviously things should be tweaked so they in know way should reach more than 8k. With that said on a DD/trick/SA build with berserk/scholars and assassin signet I should be doing more than 2.5k-3.2k burst. That's way to low compared to the sustain lv of the classes in the game right now and many classes that have crazy sustain tank builds are doing those burst numbers themselves easy.

    I wouldnt mind thieves burst being buffed. Especially after Assassins Signet got that "bugfix" that was a massive nerf. But it needs to be done when players have a real chance to react to the backstab, or the thief in general.

    The game needed everything lowered but balance is still way off and needs a lot of tweaks.

    No disagreements here.

    I get what ur saying and why ur saying it but if out of combat was lessened to these degrees backstab may as well not exist. Think about it. A burst that requires u to hit from behind at short melee range would never make it through this games defenses. Try and backstab someone that knows ur there, if there decent u wont land a back stab. Against a dp thief no decent players gonna waste their defensive skills on ur 250-300 dagger autos or anybody ur other skills except hs if their low on hp as they'd simply save them for any back stab attempts and with fears,invulnerability,blocks, barriers and evades lol good luck finding a use for bs.
    If this game didn't have the counter plays to counterplay approach gained through power creep with now very high defensive options lessening out of combat stealth for thief might have worked.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    As I stated in another thread adding 10 sec reveal CD on stealth, if thief takes damage would reward good play and punish bad play. A good thief with its evades and teleportation skills should be able to still be able to stack stealth,set up their ambush and attack. After their ambush burst if they use their many evades to avoid being hit they can still stealth and decide to stay engaged or to disengage. If a thief makes a bad play and is hit after its engagement than it should be punished with a 10 sec stealth reveal CD. This still allows a good thief to 100% keep its playstyle and punishes thieves who fail to use their evades to avoid damage.

    What that does is make the permastealth oneshot, or general out of combat stealth remain broken, while making in-combat stealth go from "basically unusable" to "literally unusable". its a terrible idea.

    No what it does is still allows the assassin class enough stealth uptime through stacking to still cover ground to engage with a ambush or for disengagment. If a thief makes a good play and engages with a burst and follows up with its attacks while using its evades properly avoiding damage it suffers zero penalties to its current playstyle but if it is struck gets punished with the 10 sec reveal CD removing one of two of its carry fail safes that allow it to leave any fight before dying at will. If a thief still wants to disengage during that cooldown it will have its teleports via utilities or infiltrator arrow.
    This allows a good thief to keep its playstyle that its accustomed to throughout all these years but punishes it slightly if mistakes are made.

    Yes, thats what I said. It makes out of combat stealth remain untouched, and in-combat stealth even more useless. Despite the fact that out of combat stealth is the problem, and in-combat stealth is already useless. Besides you seem to think its at all doable to avoid 100% of damage as a thief after bursting (or even while bursting). Spoiler: Its not. At all. You might as well just say "stealth can now only be used out of combat for cheesy oneshots". Which is one of the changes that would make stealths design even worse than it already is.

    Oh and it breaks a couple Mesmer and Engineer skills.

    Out of combat stealth isn't really a issue, a assassin class should be able set up ambushes etc.

    Out of Combat stealth is the only issue. Dying from a oneshot from an enemy you never even knew was there is just bad design. You should always at least have the option to know theyre there and prepare yourself, rather than just having to be effectively paranoid every second of play.

    Lol right. Cuz if stealth would literally pointless if it was such a short duration the opponent would always know it's coming and with this games ridiculous amount of ways to mitigate a burst a thief's ambush would be wasted 99% of the time. If stealth was limited to 3-5 sec it would actually be a death sentence to use it as a pre burst mechanic. At that point u might as well just delete the mechanic and have a stealthless rogue class. Any time a opponent say a thief go invisibile which they would with short out of combat stealth they'd simply count down the time and use their many mitigation skills to simply avoid the burst.

    The purpose of stealth in this scenario would be quick repositioning and brief damage mitigation. That would still be useful. Even if your backstab wouldnt hit. Besides, if backstab has more counterplay, it too can be buffed. And yeah, out of combat stealth wouldnt be much of a thing. I dare say tha tthat is rather the point.

    U guys keep saying stealth burst are free damage but that just isn't true especially with all the blocks, invulnerability, barriers and aegis that's easily accessible to most classes. Some classes like core necro or even tanky built reapers can just say f it and wait for u to backstab knowing ur just gonna tickle them before the follow up with axe skill that takes 50 of ur hp than life drain 25% in seconds and if u get them to 50% oh no shroud up lmao.

    And some die instantly without having much chance to do anything. Thats not fun for anyone involved. Thats why out of combat stealth is a problem, even if it would only hit a small part of the playerbase.

    Honestly for a assassin class as much as u players complain as it stands right now thief actually needs a burst buff or a lot of classes need a big sustain nerf. I'm speaking to thief dos out side of very un common numbers from full malice mbs which obviously things should be tweaked so they in know way should reach more than 8k. With that said on a DD/trick/SA build with berserk/scholars and assassin signet I should be doing more than 2.5k-3.2k burst. That's way to low compared to the sustain lv of the classes in the game right now and many classes that have crazy sustain tank builds are doing those burst numbers themselves easy.

    I wouldnt mind thieves burst being buffed. Especially after Assassins Signet got that "bugfix" that was a massive nerf. But it needs to be done when players have a real chance to react to the backstab, or the thief in general.

    The game needed everything lowered but balance is still way off and needs a lot of tweaks.

    No disagreements here.

    I get what ur saying and why ur saying it but if out of combat was lessened to these degrees backstab may as well not exist. Think about it. A burst that requires u to hit from behind at short melee range would never make it through this games defenses. Try and backstab someone that knows ur there, if there decent u wont land a back stab. Against a dp thief no decent players gonna waste their defensive skills on ur 250-300 dagger autos or anybody ur other skills except hs if their low on hp as they'd simply save them for any back stab attempts and with fears,invulnerability,blocks, barriers and evades lol good luck finding a use for bs.
    If this game didn't have the counter plays to counterplay approach gained through power creep with now very high defensive options lessening out of combat stealth for thief might have worked.

    Well, thats why stealth would need to give you a speedboost. Allowing you to actually reposition behind them, or the side of them. But yes, it would require an extensive rework.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    without Mesmer/Gwen....there would not be Guild Wars.....franchise.. It is crucial for Mesmer Profession identity to be return to its root core to preserve Guild Wars name

    This is gw2, if you want to play gw1, go play gw1.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    without Mesmer/Gwen....there would not be Guild Wars.....franchise.. It is crucial for Mesmer Profession identity to be return to its root core to preserve Guild Wars name

    This is gw2, if you want to play gw1, go play gw1.

    did you know that Cantha is from Guild Wars 1?
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Cantha

    'Guild Wars: GWEN Trailer'- 'Eye of the North'

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    without Mesmer/Gwen....there would not be Guild Wars.....franchise.. It is crucial for Mesmer Profession identity to be return to its root core to preserve Guild Wars name

    This is gw2, if you want to play gw1, go play gw1.

    did you know that Cantha is from Guild Wars 1?

    How is this relevant to what I wrote?

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    without Mesmer/Gwen....there would not be Guild Wars.....franchise.. It is crucial for Mesmer Profession identity to be return to its root core to preserve Guild Wars name

    This is gw2, if you want to play gw1, go play gw1.

    did you know that Cantha is from Guild Wars 1?

    How is this relevant to what I wrote?

    Cantha is Guild Wars 1 and we are all heading back there

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    without Mesmer/Gwen....there would not be Guild Wars.....franchise.. It is crucial for Mesmer Profession identity to be return to its root core to preserve Guild Wars name

    This is gw2, if you want to play gw1, go play gw1.

    did you know that Cantha is from Guild Wars 1?

    How is this relevant to what I wrote?

    Cantha is Guild Wars 1 and we are all heading back there

    The lore can be connected, the game with its mechanics is its own entity. Nothing about the lore being connected changes anything about my earlier statement. This is not gw1, if you want to play gw1 because you can't move on then just go play it.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    without Mesmer/Gwen....there would not be Guild Wars.....franchise.. It is crucial for Mesmer Profession identity to be return to its root core to preserve Guild Wars name

    This is gw2, if you want to play gw1, go play gw1.

    did you know that Cantha is from Guild Wars 1?

    How is this relevant to what I wrote?

    Cantha is Guild Wars 1 and we are all heading back there

    ? So returning to the same location as in a previous game means that its identity and mechanical changes could be justifiably changed to that of a previous game?
    U do realize gw2 is a completely different game and not just a newer version of gw right?
    There's a reason it's called gw2 and not gw remastered.

  • msalakka.4653msalakka.4653 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't mind me, I'm just another idiot career Mesmer who's a free kill to thieves, but... I don't see their stealth being the issue aside from perhaps DE. My issue is primarily their mobility; when taken by surprise, by the time I've broken the (unblockable) venom stun and tried to cast GS 2 or 4, which each take effectively 1 second to cast, he's out of range. At this point he's shaved off around 3/4 of my health so I can put my heal on cd now right next to my failed phantasm, waste my second stunbreak on round #2 and then die. It's probably a l2p issue for me.
    However, I don't think we're going down a very healthy road by nerfing basic game mechanics that have existed since the dawn of the game. For Mesmers, the long-asked-for baseline IP wasn't a problem before Chrono. CI was in the game from day 1 and it was never a problem until all of a sudden thanks to cMirage. Finally instead of addressing the actual issues of cMirage they just removed a dodge - halving a basic game mechanic.
    I know this is a thief thread but I don't know enough about the class to comment on traits where it might need fine-tuning. All I know is, it's a slippery slope down a very unpleasant path when you start nerfing mechanics or core traits to combat issues brought on specifically by poorly designed elites.