How do you feel about the imminent balance patch, and why? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

How do you feel about the imminent balance patch, and why?

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  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2020

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    I cant say Very Hopeful, nor can I say Teeming with dread.

    I have one specific request for the balance team, is that Engineer turrets get an Actual look into. An attempt to better them and make them viable. Unfortunately, since they haven't exactly been touched for a while, and the last time they've been touched has actually downgraded their use, I am neither expecting -a- result, nor a -good- result on that regard. It's Something that has been on my mind (And quite a few engineers, judging by the engineer forum) and most including myself have outright given up on that skill family.

    There's a lot of core engineer that has aged very poorly. There's maybe a handful of different utility skills that are worth your time in PvP and 2 entire traitlines barely see use.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    You keep talking about the size being really big but how big is it compared to a pretty normal balance pass like this?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62731/game-update-notes-december-11-2018

    He did say every skill and trait has been reviewed. Should give some idea about scope and size.

    Reviewed but not necessarily changed.

    He said the amount of changes will be hard to even put out on a note. Does that explain it better?

    How is writing patch notes hard? You just type them. If I was typing patch notes instead of my own post I'd be doing it right now. Think about that.

    Not been much of a writer, huh? Explaining technical things in a simple way is an art and a science.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • SPESHAL.9106SPESHAL.9106 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    Nice attempt at spin already. PoF has been out for years now. Why are "the number of changes so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict"? What have all the other balance patches been? Are you admitting that they were all failures? What can't you internally test and predict at this point with PoF??? Is it a staffing issue or a competency issue?

    If it's a staffing issue, just take more time. It's better to get things right than look foolish and not catch things players catch immediately.

    If it's a competency issue, release the patch notes prior to going live and get some feedback.

    The reason you're in this boat to begin with is that you released patches without internally testing stuff and predicting the interactions. If you are ALREADY admitting that will be the case with this balance patch, you've failed from the start.

    Nobody could take your internal testing seriously before when you released fewer changes that had to be hotfixed. Many of those things that had to be hotfixed could have been identified in 10 minutes of internal testing or 1 button push. Some changes weren't enough and classes went a full year and counting being OP. Now you're already admitting similar issues with this patch? WOW...forgive the pun...cuz that's the game I'm playing now (classic) because you guys failed so miserably.

    Thanks for the warning at least.

  • There's a what?

    @SubZero.4319 Thanks, and late welcome.

    I'm not going to pretend to be a saint, or put myself on any sort of pedestal. Really my line of thought is equally pessimistic and cynical. Not to the level of wishing death or bankruptcy or something else what's ridiculous on Arenanet when I don't get my way, but I have essentially boycotted Ranked, and i'm not going to support it or touch it until things change; if things even ever change. Not exactly foaming at the mouth with anticipation there.

    Just that part though. I really don't mind any other part of the game, and I still play and enjoy most of it. This one aspect of sPvP I find pretty broken though. I'm not going to say it's balance making me feel that way either, like I tried to say before.

    Arguing and especially getting aggressive over balance just seems kind of petty to me. It could all be rendered meaningless is just a few months, and it is designed in such a way that there is never a unanimous compromise to reach. Again, always winners and losers.

    Like... big upcoming balance patch is cool and important and all that, sure. But can we get a big feature patch too at some point? Maybe get rid of all the bots and high-level match-fixing in Ranked? Pretty sure that benefits everyone but the bots; who are actively breaking the rules, and the very small minority of "top" players that make a killing off of smurfing, metagaming exploit-like 'features', and boosting.
    Not to mention add some actual content to the content-starved gamemode.

    Remove or Split DuoQ, revolution of our time! 😷

  • Dear Anet, Please balance / reduce powers of Mesmer and the Elementalist, as clearly these are broken classes for a long time and you have lost many players of the game because of this neglect. Also it is well overdue you improve / re-balance powers of the Guardian, as you ruined this class for a very long time now. Thank you

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    Did anything change about the foundations of the game like base HP and armor?...I have a very bad feeling about everything

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Very hopeful

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    Is there some kind of goal you guys are working towards with the changes, something in particular you're shooting to achieve? You might have mentioned it somewhere else but I didn't see it. I think it would be great for the community to know that so we know in what context to take the balance changes.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Hashberry.4510Hashberry.4510 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I'm teeming with dread

    Only one guarantee here, the competitive players will not and can not be satisfied. Don't lose any sleep over it.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Any ETA please? The current meta is beyond boring and disappointing. I hope this balance update is not just tweaking of numbers but actually contains reworks of many skills, traits, and weapons.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • I'm teeming with dread

    I gave up on being hopeful. Balance patched never achieve balance. It always just shifts around what class/build becomes the overpowered cheese.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    There's a what?

    i honestly dont really know and with the passing days i feel like i start to care less and less cause they will no doubt do things that make sense and alot of things that dont make sense.

    Game modes wont be added so balance is still likely in the end going to be stuck in a spot thats not super well fitting for a capture and hold style game mode. That in itself is likely a massive part of the problem.

    As far as things being over looked as Ben said a lot of that could be reduced with public testing. I still think this is a feature that would have been worth doing for big changes like this especially when you dont know what the public will come up with hours or a day after release especially if its something thats not fixable and requires something being disabled or left broken for weeks/ months at a time.

    While pubic testing balance changes is going to be subject to a lot of harsh "WHY DID YOU NERF ME SO HARD BUT NOT X PROFESSION!" it would also reveal a lot of things that you guys will no doubt overlook by mistake. The game has alot of skills and traits, runes, sigils etc without a doubt you are going to overlook alot of things especially things that are not meta right now but still "pretty strong" but just not used because meta is some what better.

    I guess if i hope for anything is that a good majority of past values still being held from the launch of the game can be just let go opening up some freedom to make each profession as balanced as possible rather than holding a few of them to some standard that is just not very compatible in the game that exists today in 2020.

  • TheAgedGnome.7520TheAgedGnome.7520 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2020

    Ok, see this thread where Ben remarks on a big balance patch: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1129659#Comment_1129659

    Specifically:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    A lot of this stuff is actually in progress right now. Hopefully we'll be able to give more details soon. I'll give a somewhat vague status update on each one:

    Big Balance Patch: First pass is basically done. Cmc is running through some last minute changes and it should start internal testing soon.

    -and-

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    The patch is going to be .... sizable. So big that I don't think it's possible to predict everything. But the plan is to be as quick as possible with adjustments after the big one hits. Also keep in mind that it's going to be primarily splits. So there are some limits on what can be done.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    Any thoughts on an early preview in case people are going to have to regear their builds after for WvW? Takes some time to regather mats for a major shift.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Balance would mean every class works on an even level, on the same skill level for each class (e.g. you don't need to try hard on each class but if you do, the skill ceiling is very high. Skill floor very low). Builds are not too powerful or too weak for their respective roles. They are in between and fluctuate based on skill level.

    To just scrap builds that used to work in favor of new traits, skill functions, and whatnot isn't balance, it's migrating from one rough environment to another. While I do appreciate more builds becoming viable my concern is if a few of these builds are broken.

  • SloRules.3560SloRules.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    Dunno man. You guys are hyping this thing, but did not give us any info to indicate how is this patch any big. This rarely ends up well.

    Cmc mentioned on the WvW stream today. 800-900 objects have been changed so far. Just with the splits.

    Ok, i know pretty much everything can be an object, but well, that's impressive. Seems like this thing is the size of pre HoT specializations thing.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    PvP is dead. Not even a 100% perfect balance could revive it.

  • Bezerker.2379Bezerker.2379 Member ✭✭✭
    I'm teeming with dread

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    You keep talking about the size being really big but how big is it compared to a pretty normal balance pass like this?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62731/game-update-notes-december-11-2018

    He did say every skill and trait has been reviewed. Should give some idea about scope and size.

    Reviewed but not necessarily changed.

    He said the amount of changes will be hard to even put out on a note. Does that explain it better?

    How is writing patch notes hard? You just type them. If I was typing patch notes instead of my own post I'd be doing it right now. Think about that.

    Typing up the notes itself isn't the problem. For the splits alone, the list is finished. We're discussing how to present the notes a digestible way and in a way that makes it easier on us to follow feedback conversations.

    I mean, not for nothing, I'm actually very worried about this. One of the most demotivating things is when game play an style changes due to balance or meta changes. I may be one of the few players that is FINE with the current balancing, state of conditions, cc, etc even when i get roflstomped by them.

    I'd rather have the game I know and love, than a massive rebalance that makes it uncomfortable and unfun.

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭
    Very hopeful

    Considering the last "balance update" addressed 63 "objects" (splits and general profession changes combined). This is massive.
    We looking at a "10 in 1" balance special here.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2020
    There's a what?

    @Zenix.6198 said:
    Considering the last "balance update" addressed 63 "objects" (splits and general profession changes combined). This is massive.
    We looking at a "10 in 1" balance special here.

    It's more like 1 in 10 case then 10 in 1.
    1 grand changes for the sake of changes patch that'd occur every 10 years.

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2020
    There's a what?

    Whatever happens, TINY still be TINY. http://tinyarmy.org :)

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭
    Very hopeful

    I forgot to mention why I am so excited about this new balance patch. I am an elementalist main that has been playing for four years and witnessed the years upon years of elementalist being an unplayable, sub-meta class and have it excell to not just popularity, but meta-defining power for the first time since before I ever installed. I saw how common sense changes like rampage nerfs defined GW2 balance since the cmc take over. This new track record is so promising to me and the emphasis on the size and scope of the patch makes me hope the game will be a much healthier environment. I am hoping to see elementalist have more than 4 useful core utility skills.

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭

    First off, I'm extremely disappointed in this poll in its limited in choice. I don't feel any of the above, what I do feel is intrigued and skeptical. News of this pvp patch actually piqued my interest enough to post on these forums again, at the very least. However, I quit spvp back in Aug 2019 and I'm not looking back until I see that you all are serious about this.

  • HardRider.2980HardRider.2980 Member ✭✭✭
    Very hopeful

    Please don't crush my hope for this.
    I want to believeeeee... But the past lerks too close haha

    A City of Heroes never die... A City of Villains will never surrender... Neither City will be forgotten.

  • Selminus.1490Selminus.1490 Member ✭✭
    edited January 9, 2020

    It's a result of countless people crying on the forums about losing to other players or being ineffective in PvE based on their lack of understanding and/or skill sooooo enjoy the fruits of their labor. Don't believe me? Open the PvP forums. 9 out of 10 posts are asking for nerfs, it's pathetic and exclusive to North American millenials.

  • Requiem.9648Requiem.9648 Member ✭✭
    edited January 9, 2020

    Make Chrono PVE Great Again and put back the dry shatter at least.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    There's a what?

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    You keep talking about the size being really big but how big is it compared to a pretty normal balance pass like this?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62731/game-update-notes-december-11-2018

    He did say every skill and trait has been reviewed. Should give some idea about scope and size.

    Reviewed but not necessarily changed.

    He said the amount of changes will be hard to even put out on a note. Does that explain it better?

    How is writing patch notes hard? You just type them. If I was typing patch notes instead of my own post I'd be doing it right now. Think about that.

    Typing up the notes itself isn't the problem. For the splits alone, the list is finished. We're discussing how to present the notes a digestible way and in a way that makes it easier on us to follow feedback conversations.

    my suggestion is to make post on each class subforum about each class changes, and big post in PvP forum that will have links to each post in said forums.
    that way it will be much easier to follow up on who said what and who whines about what and how badly they need to be ignored lol

  • Joey.2769Joey.2769 Member ✭✭
    I'm teeming with dread

    Or you could always test it on a test server :/

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    Dunno man. You guys are hyping this thing, but did not give us any info to indicate how is this patch any big. This rarely ends up well.

    Cmc mentioned on the WvW stream today. 800-900 objects have been changed so far. Just with the splits.

    Whoa! This is going to be the start of something awesome! Can't wait!

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭
    Very hopeful

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    First off, I'm extremely disappointed in this poll in its limited in choice. I don't feel any of the above, what I do feel is intrigued and skeptical. News of this pvp patch actually piqued my interest enough to post on these forums again, at the very least. However, I quit spvp back in Aug 2019 and I'm not looking back until I see that you all are serious about this.

    My original intent was to have only the two options but I chose the third for all why don’t feel included.

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭
    Very hopeful

    @Selminus.1490 said:

    It's a result of countless people crying on the forums about losing to other players or being ineffective in PvE based on their lack of understanding and/or skill sooooo enjoy the fruits of their labor. Don't believe me? Open the PvP forums. 9 out of 10 posts are asking for nerfs, it's pathetic and exclusive to North American millenials.

    The purpose of a business is to make money and science proves people are more likely to repeat profitable behavior, so understanding this making customers happiest is the primary goal. If everyone wanted all utility skills to be gone the smart thing for an*t to do is to delete all utility skills.

  • Cambeleg.7632Cambeleg.7632 Member ✭✭✭
    There's a what?

    Considering how the "balance patches" have been along the time, specially in PvP and WvW... between 0 an 10... I'd value my hopes in -10.

    Specially since everything that should be important to fix/patch is still on the table...

    ... like the so oh promised Alliances.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I'm teeming with dread

    The volume of changes they hint at is the OPPOSITE of what they need to be doing and what they said they were going to do. There is no way in H*LL they are going to make sensible balancing changes if the number of change they imply are accurate. You can already see the excuse that it's going to be pretty unpredictable in the messaging.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So the patch will come out March 2020 at the earliest , good to know

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • ZolracAtrox.2908ZolracAtrox.2908 Member ✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020
    Very hopeful

    I hope big nerfs on firebrand in all game modes (pvp, pve & wvw) and buffs to Engineer(all specs) & Necro(all specs except healing barrier) for PvE, "be decent" is only for pugs, and both classes (except scourge healer) are almost below to decent. A power dps herald for PvE should be perfect too...

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    So March? Good a little break, game can sit on desktop till then. Hopefully the patch fixes afk/dance wars 2, till then game can rot lol.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    If its large and it's already accepted that not everything can be caught etc all the more reason to release the patch notes so the players can assist in seeing any issues that may arise which can be fixed sooner due to such things. That's a whole lot of fresh eyes lol.

    something like this should have been publicly tested first,

  • memausz.7264memausz.7264 Member ✭✭✭
    I'm teeming with dread

    I dread it because I don't know how you can have the current state of PvP...
    1. Bleeding its changes into PvE. I'm still upset Tool Belt skills for Holosmith are disabled upon overheat in purely PvE environments (I suppose it was fine to not make that the case in WvW, too, but come ON! In PvE? As if Raids weren't hard enough to do with randoms? I'm sure people who player other classes can relate on skills that were nerfed in PvE in addition to PvP, when PvP changes were the only changes potentially warranted.
    2. Persisting with numerous bugs that are EASILY replicated are still in the game that affect PvP MONTHS after I've reported them either via forum post or via direct ticket. I see that we STILL have not had Disengage Photon Forge's bug where the timer to disengage increases by 1 second, sometimes TWICE IN A ROW IN COMBAT - fixed. And that's for PvE as well.
    3. Persisting with a nerf philosophy that the way to nerf an elite specialization is to nerf the ENTIRE class, and not JUST the elite spec. Or to nerf a sigil because one build is a problem. Nerf the build, not the entire set of potential builds people can have.
    4. Persisting with the presence of at least 8 builds that have few counterplay options; Symbol Firebrand, Pistol Whip Thief, Permadodge Daredevil, Knockback Scrapper, Longbow/Greatsword Sic Em Soulbeast, One Shot Core Mesmer, One shot Core ele, Fire weaver. And then some other composition synergies which are just too much to deal with in the current meta, such as double heralds - so much CC, so much evade, it's becoming hard to have fun in PvP and that all got through whatever non-existent balance testing that was done.
    5. Persistent bugs that torment anyone who participates in Automated Tournaments regularly. Where players receive no QP, no PvP reward potions, no gold, and no mystic coins, and where support says they can't do anything to help, even though they can check logs on all of those things to verify, probably because management tells them they cannot. I seriously want unranked, ranked, and automated rewards chests for pvp to DOUBLE their gold payouts, partially to compensate for this issue and in general to encourage more people into PvP.

    So yes, I dread the upcoming balance changes because I have no faith in whoever's making the balance decisions.

  • I'm teeming with dread

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Cmc mentioned on the WvW stream today. 800-900 objects have been changed so far. Just with the splits.

    How many of those changes from pvp and wvw affect to pve (I mean, not split)? or they are a minority? Also, are you guys in that release introduce changes for pve only or its just a pvp/wvw balance patch?

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    I'm expecting things to be chaotic, as major balance overhauls inevitably have to be. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

    However, having a new meta tends to raise player interest even if a few things are broken in the short term, because there's something new to learn and adapt to. I think balance is commonly viewed as a process of refinement toward a perfect state, but a number of games in the RPG genre actually do quite well by shaking things up every few months, just because that provides good content for their theory-crafting players.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    The volume of changes they hint at is the OPPOSITE of what they need to be doing

    And what exactly should they be doing, according to you?

  • Adzekul.3104Adzekul.3104 Member ✭✭✭

    I watched and rewatched the WvW stream last night. I want to say I am pleased with the level of pre-patch dialogue with the community so far. Keep up the good work. I feel it is reasonable to expect that the game could be turned on it's head with these changes; this could easily be as "disruptive" as the addition of a new set of class specializations.

    Has consideration been given to the impact on the economy and the presumed need to change gear?