This game isn't very new player friendly.

[ArchonWing.9480]

16 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

As with most other things, content value always diminishes over time (except for living stories they go up!), now you get core for free, and pay $30 for both expansions. I'm one of those players that paid full price for the game and expansions, yet if I missed any time in the last four years since pof I would be expected to pay for the living stories too. So core prices doesn't exactly factor in living story cost.

 

I'm not going to say much against the model as I've logged in to collect the stories for free over the nine years, just that the model is a bit disjointed for new players and maybe they should try and smooth out transitions into next expansions by merging living stories back in their own expansions when you start to reduce prices. Like why drop HoT price down to $30 and then to a two for one price of $30 with PoF, only to leave the living story seasons up in the shop to still try and make a quick buck out of them? yes I know sell them the base for cheap to get them invested to buy the bit parts yada yada yada, it just leaves it a mess end of the day.

Yea, you are still right, but there were quite a few salty voices when the game announced core was gonna be F2P and I felt that was probably ringing in back of their heads. I think they were meaning LS to be given free to folks to log on as a reward for hanging around the game for so long.

 

But at that point LS was by and far optional, but it kept getting more and more stuff and big rewards locked behind it. And then the turning point was them shoving all these plot twists in them, making them not really optional anymore. Nowadays we direct people to LS to get trinkets without a second thought without realizing they may not have access.

My point is just that  I guess nothing is truly free. Except that legendary they gave me for a second Conflux.

I don't like the current system  and I've always logged in to get it.  The "return" events seem to be the compromise and I think this won't be the last time we see them. And they should probably drop prices/package in the older ones.

But yea, regardless of everything. Buyers need to be presented with all the options to make a proper description. It's like those products on Amazon that bury important details "only compatible with XXY" when it should be on the top.

Hah, but in any case, I'm just glad my enjoyment of the game didn't have much to do with the story xD. But then again DLC'ing your players to death is something I hate.

Edited October 12, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Shining One.1635]

4 hours ago, jeyaredubs.9348 said:

You bought the expansions just like new players did, and because you were playing actively, you got access to it.

 

So why then, should new and returning players be punished for spending the same amount of money as you all, but because they were not there when it was active, they must spend extra for it?

The math doesn't agree. I went through a similar situation with an ex. I paid $50 + $50 + $30 = $130 for the base game and both expansions. Living Story was free for me since I was active. When I got my ex into the game, she paid $30 + $40 = $70 for Path of Fire and 3200 gems, which she used to buy Living World Seasons 2 through 4. Her account has exactly the same content access as my account.

[Monarc.9726]

7 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Or pretend that it is a monthly subscription for you, like other MMOs.  Pay $15-$20/month and buy gems.  Then use gems to buy chapters.  Simple, really.

I agree that this is logical for long term players that already know they want to invest time and money into the game, but this isn’t obvious for new players who are trying to determine what the next step is after finishing the core story and  purchasing the expansions. It’s not very clear that you can buy the LW seasons if you’re new and unaware of the story timeline. Once you do learn what to do next in the intended sequence, you might also discover that the LW seasons go on sale occasionally and decide you’ll hold off. It’s not broken but could be explained better.

 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

3 hours ago, Shining One.1635 said:

The math doesn't agree. I went through a similar situation with an ex. I paid $50 + $50 + $30 = $130 for the base game and both expansions. Living Story was free for me since I was active. When I got my ex into the game, she paid $30 + $40 = $70 for Path of Fire and 3200 gems, which she used to buy Living World Seasons 2 through 4. Her account has exactly the same content access as my account.

Just sayin'...if you bought at launch/release, it was $60 + $50 + $30 for a total of $140. 

[Swagger.1459]

10 hours ago, jeyaredubs.9348 said:

So then you agree, that the story is disjointed unless you shell out the money to be able to play the story the way it was intended, in a game where the story is the base line for the content being delivered?

Would you like it if Anet charged a monthly subscription fee to play instead, just like in FF?  Or do you want as much as you can get for free from this business? And just wondering, did you ask Square Enix to get rid of their monthly sub, like you want free stuff here? 

[Game of Bones.8975]

I actually started a new account a while back just to play with a blank slate again; beginning a new character on a full account isn't the same.

 

It's only hard if you know how far you have to go to "catch up" or you want to have everything from the very start. It's more exciting if you think of it as "I know what's available and can plan accordingly." Early on, I wasted mastery points on tracks I wouldn't need. 

 

If a new player expects to start with everything an experienced player has, I have little pity for them, but I'll help a new player who wants to earn the same stuff as an experienced player all day long.

[Cyndercat.7615]

8 hours ago, Ember.6478 said:

What I will never understand is why people who would gladly pay a monthly subscription fee for another game would complain so much about having to pay money to unlock further content in Guild Wars 2. It's nice you can even use gold for gems to unlock any content. If you're a new player then play the free game and figure out if it's worth it to you to spend more time and money on it. Figure out how to use the LFG tool or join a helpful guild. I only started playing a year ago and I haven't had any of the issues you say you experienced. There are so many helpful people willing to portal you somewhere or help you get a bounty you just have to reach out and ask people nicely.

Mainly because its pretty deceptive. If they were upfront about the cost im sure most people would have no issue with it, but with anet implying you get the full game, then realising to get the full story and content you need to pay double what you expected is going to turn alot of people off.

 

I always find it super disappointing when people defend shady business practices.

Edited October 13, 2021 by zombyturtle.5980

[Thomanson.4765]

10 hours ago, jeyaredubs.9348 said:

I feel sorry for you, that you believe having access to the story in the game you purchased is such a huge issue for you. This is not wanting free things because the game is free(which it certainly is not), this is just wanting the game to be more friendly to new players. 

LW isn't the 'game you purchased' They're mini-DLCs. The fact that they're sometimes free is amazing.

[kettering.6823]

So you're okay with spending $15/month on top of the price of FFXIV and its expansions (and doesn't it have a cash shop as well?) but paying $60 one time for Living World story content is too much? 

[Shena Fu.5792]

1 hour ago, Thomanson.4765 said:

LW isn't the 'game you purchased' They're mini-DLCs. The fact that they're sometimes free is amazing.

Exactly. Living World is optional additional content. Even "stories" are optional content. You're not forced to do the "story" in order--or at all. 

 

New maps are free in order to entice large populations of players to participate. The very definition of MMO. Gratuity keeps dedicated fans to stick around for new fresh content. Again retaining that MMO-ness. Devs want massive populations on new maps.

 

It's a like coupon. Some people can get stuff cheaper or free using coupons. Doesn't mean that companies just give out free stuff to everybody, because some people may feel it's unfair that coupon users get stuff cheaper. In this case, players who joined later or missed the free episodes simply missed the deadline for this coupon.

[Shining One.1635]

2 hours ago, zombyturtle.5980 said:

Mainly because its pretty deceptive. If they were upfront about the cost im sure most people would have no issue with it, but with anet implying you get the full game, then realising to get the full story and content you need to pay double what you expected is going to turn alot of people off.

 

I always find it super disappointing when people defend shady business practices.

Where is the deception? I just looked at the descriptions of the Path of Fire bundle on the Guild Wars 2 site and Amazon (Walmart and Best Buy don't have it currently). Both descriptions say: Path of Fire and Heart of Thorns. The terms "Living Story" and "Full Game" are not used anywhere. Are there other third-party sites advertising the bundles as including the living story or the full game?

[ASP.8093]

21 minutes ago, Shining One.1635 said:

Where is the deception? I just looked at the descriptions of the Path of Fire bundle on the Guild Wars 2 site and Amazon (Walmart and Best Buy don't have it currently). Both descriptions say: Path of Fire and Heart of Thorns. The terms "Living Story" and "Full Game" are not used anywhere. Are there other third-party sites advertising the bundles as including the living story or the full game?

There's an item on the store page right now that says [emphasis added],

"Get everything you need to experience Tyria, a vast living world. This collection includes Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire and Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns."

https://buy.guildwars2.com/store/gw2/en_US/html/pbPage.select/themeID.5065518300

 

Furthermore, if you pick that big bundle collection, this is how the game describes gems:

"The ultimate in Tyrian spending power. Treat yourself to a new in-game outfit, item, or upgrade in the Gem Store—or convert your gems directly into gold. A $50 value! (Please allow up to 72 hours for delivery after purchase.)"

Literally no mention of needing gems to unlock Living Story chapters.

 

N.B. I am not claiming this is deceptive, I'm claiming that it's super annoying for anyone who hasn't already played the game. Most reasonable people getting into the game on the basis of word-of-mouth or a review aren't going to be able to look at that and figure out that the thing they're getting when they press the big shiny "THIS IS THE WHOLE GAME!!" button is actually missing big chunks — basically half of the post-Core content.

So, come on, buds! Let's Experience Tyria, a vast living world.*

* All the stuff the game calls "Living World" in every other context is not included.

Edited October 13, 2021 by ASP.8093

[Xanadrine.4352]

TBH this is why a lot of new players quit, they didnt know you have to buy separate stories to complete the picture. Most of them come from games like wow where everything is included when you buy the game.

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

please go away with your handholding 60h tutorial like in the most japanese games.

- 
thx real gamer(s)

[Cyndercat.7615]

1 hour ago, Shining One.1635 said:

Where is the deception? I just looked at the descriptions of the Path of Fire bundle on the Guild Wars 2 site and Amazon (Walmart and Best Buy don't have it currently). Both descriptions say: Path of Fire and Heart of Thorns. The terms "Living Story" and "Full Game" are not used anywhere. Are there other third-party sites advertising the bundles as including the living story or the full game?

The collection edition literally say 'get everything you need to experience tyria, a vast living world' If that doesnt imply that all gw2 content is included in the package idk what would. There is no additional information that half of the content is not included.

[jeblackwell.3152]

I feel like OP is coming at this the wrong way. The way I took learning about the Living Story chapters were mini chapters that you had to buy. If you were on when they came out, they were given free as a Thank you from Anet. They weren't free chapters that were then purchasable. Two very different things.

 

Honestly I think the best way to fix this is to have a mini story similar to season 1 for the whole season for people who don't want to buy/just want the story to do HoT/PoF.  If they decide to purchase them later then they can come back after finishing the expansions. 

 

They should also have a deal that includes living story chapters alongside the expansions, maybe as a fourth option or even an add-on when buying the expansions. With EoD giving the glider and possibly mounts, everything else will be just for story.

[Ultramex.1506]

This have been said many time, Anet should be clearer but how they sold LWs are fair

1 hour ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

TBH this is why a lot of new players quit, they didnt know you have to buy separate stories to complete the picture. Most of them come from games like wow where everything is included when you buy the game.

I wonder if those players would quit ESO too consider it ask you to pay more than GW2

[Dami.5046]

So this isn't your main game, you are playing this till the expansion for your main game comes out in November and you are complaining about the 'new player experience'?  and the 'fact' you have to pay for the seasons now? As well as the fact there are other threads on this subject, right now?

right. 

Can someone start threads on the 77 clovers i need for my weapons please, i need a nerf.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Dami.5046

[Jheuloh.4109]

Guild Wars 2 intrinsically encourages players to get invested into the storyline because of how bulky and elaborate it is. There is full voice acting, tailor made animations and events, instanced missions, fully formed story arcs, etc. It is also true that Guild Wars 2 eschewed the traditional monthly subscription model.

 

Living World as currently embodied serves ArenaNet as a way to extract revenue from story-invested players that arrived late, and as a thing to encourage existing players to keep logging in periodically which potentially brings them back into regular playership and encourages gem-store purchases elsewhere.

 

I believe it made sense back when it was conceived but with FFXIV: ARR having become increasingly established it feels too much like FATEs have skinned the corpse of Guild Wars 2's events and its storylines are a lot more cohesive than anything Guild Wars 2 has to offer. It's a much smoother ride and while it's still a pretty dense game (from a general public POV), it explains itself about as well as it can. Whether sub-based or not, both are meant to be long-play games which compete for a player's time.

 

For someone caught off-guard by chunks of the storyline being gem-walled, I imagine 4 whole living world seasons is an intimidating looking purchase. They can get one episode to test the waters, but that doesn't take away the reality of the sum total cost. How expensive that purchase really is can be debated, especially when gold-to-gems enters the equation, but that's fluff around the core fact of purchasing parts of the core storyline.

 

While I lean towards OP's point of view about the story of Guild Wars 2 being laughably crude and disjointed and not at all conductive to natural play (even to veterans), I also have to admit that if I were ArenaNet, I wouldn't really have many options to change it without throwing the entire development team into this.

 

If tomorrow Living World is suddenly just bundled into the expansion purchases and did not inflate the price tag of the relevant expansion packs, what fills in the void?

 

This void-filler would need to have something that pretty much guarantees most/all of the player-base would rather literally buy into it. Mounts and to a lesser extent Gliders seem like they're doing a great job of that, if all the highly visible skins are anything to go by.

 

My first impulse would be to have story-fillers like character backstories or worldbuilding events (such as the sinking of Old Lion's Arch) be purchasable missions, though I acknowledge that from ArenaNet/NCSoft's POV that might read as a high risk, low reward endeavor.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Jheuloh.4109

[Naxos.2503]

As always, the easiest solution  would be to simply display the Living Story packages on the webstore. Since so many people feel like it's hidden away. There likely cant be any arguments that it would'nt solve the problem inferred.

By that I mean, at the side of the expansions.

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Naxos.2503

[Gehenna.3625]

12 hours ago, Shining One.1635 said:

The math doesn't agree. I went through a similar situation with an ex. I paid $50 + $50 + $30 = $130 for the base game and both expansions. Living Story was free for me since I was active. When I got my ex into the game, she paid $30 + $40 = $70 for Path of Fire and 3200 gems, which she used to buy Living World Seasons 2 through 4. Her account has exactly the same content access as my account.

Well the math doesn't agree in your calculation, but economics doesn't agree with you. Old content always gets cheaper over time, so your math is accurate by itself but isn't accurate in the real world where old content gets cheaper over time because it's...well, old. Also if you bought the game and the expansions for 130 bucks but didn't play a lot in between them, you'd have to pay for the LS chapters just the same....and that's where your math goes off as well. Remember, math is accurate but only takes the variables into account that you allow for. So the devaluation of content over time and the taking of breaks from the game are not calculated in there.

Now, I'm not saying Anet shouldn't monetize LS chapters, but I do object to them not being upfront about them. As I said, people buy the expansions in good faith and their expectation is that they own all content...and then they find out that they don't. I really wish that Anet would sell these LS chapters next to the expansions or in a package with the expansion or both. Or at least make people aware that there is more content to buy. That would be...more honest.

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

New player experience is fine i think. It's the old player pretending to be new are having problem?

[Blocki.4931]

Saying GW2 isn't new player friendly then going on about how much you love the game that only "gets good" like 30 hours in is.. funny.

[PeachyPleasure.8049]

So, your problem is: new players (or returning ones) have to pay for those few LW stories, while they now can have the core game for free and expansions in a bundle for less than their original separate prices. And your reasoning is, that there were a time window when those few episodes were free for players who played the game at that time.

Following your logic, then I should open a thread whinning about how unfair is that new players now can have the expansions+core game for less money than I payed when they came out? And how Anet is punishing veteran players for their loyality, while new players are getting discounts blah blah.

 

As others said before: no one is forcing new players to rush through the whole game just so they can have all the stuff other players now have, after years of playing. Before mounts were introduced we were able to complete HoT (with hard(er) work and time), now mounts are present so in your opinion new players should just get them with a click, because that would be more 'fair'.

 

Maybe new players (with the same mindset of yours) should decide whether they want to actually play this game and work toward their goals, or just want to have an insta account with all the shinies and unlocks because that's what is "new player friendly".

 

 

[Zentao.6314]

ANet could fix this by allow all Living World stories to play to fix the story gap.

But with the limitation that you are unable to get any of this:
- mastery points
- rewards
- loot
- map currencies
- any living world related content (like the Skyscale)

Edited October 13, 2021 by Zentao.6314