Obtena.7952 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Aravind.9610 said: This spec seems like trash now without toolbelt and 100 second cooldown on mech. Trash spec but only if you play like trash. If your mech is dying, you probably aren't paying attention. 5 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aravind.9610 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 32 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said: Trash spec but only if you play like trash. If your mech is dying, you probably aren't paying attention. What exactly can we do to prevent the mech dying then? Recall it maybe, but that means it doesn't do anything for that time. The only heal skill for mech is that healing signet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Aravind.9610 said: What exactly can we do to prevent the mech dying then? Recall it maybe, but that means it doesn't do anything for that time. The only heal skill for mech is that healing signet. To start with, it already begins with 175% of your own Toughness and VIT. In addition, there are barrier traits all over the place. In the third place, you can send it away before it dies and recall it 10 sec later. in the 4th place, the Elite Signet recalls it EVEN if it's dead If none of that can keep your mech alive or avoiding or mitigating the 100 CD on Golem death for you ... then it's not the spec's problem, it's you. Edited October 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aravind.9610 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 I am not denying it has potential as a solo spec though. I will see what it can solo during the beta. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Aravind.9610 said: I am not denying it has potential as a solo spec though. I will see what it can solo during the beta. I don't get this statement, considering you don't believe we have the tools to keep the mech from dying. I see a problem if you want to consider soloing with this espec (I'm assuming you are talking about champs, bounties?) The golem is going to be tanking for you, no matter how much Toughness you equip, if that mobs aggro the highest toughness target. Golem is pretty resilient, but it's not going to dodge or avoid AOE's, etc ... and there certainly isn't enough barrier to keep it upright and it's only going to facetank for a limited time. I don't think we will be soloing bounties easily with this Spec. Edited October 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx.9058 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 After watching the twitch stream today, Mechanist is looking like the best done spec out of this round, and one of the top specs for the whole expansion. I love it. The mech fits, some people don't like or want pets but there's other specs/professions for them to play in that case. I'm going to be making a second engineer just to capitalize on the asura-golemancer theme with the mechanist spec. It'll feel like playing gaige with deathtrap all over again, I'm super excited for it and so far I haven't been excited for much in this game beyond my base engineer/char scrapper. I'm not super fond of the weapon choice. Mace looks ok, but we're still left with only two offhand options: shield (which is pretty useless when you're not doing pvp, let's be honest) and pistol, which still has the completely useless pistol 5 skill. So really we only get one offhand ability that's worth using and I think that really cuts into the playstyle. Engineer really needs some work in terms of weapon availability. We've got the fewest weapon options in the game for any spec, and I get that they justify that because we have kits but it's still not enough. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said: OMG!!! Let it go already. Just dismiss the mech before it dies and it will only be a 10 sec cooldown. Honestly I hope they keep the 100 sec cd to punish bad Engineers. It says that the cooldown scales with the health of your mech.... recalling it before it dies means it will probably be on low health, resulting in a long cooldown (like 80 seconds or such). Don't think you can recall it all the time to reset the health and just have it on 10 seconds cooldown. Anet won't allow that. Edited October 23, 2021 by Kodama.6453 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said: To start with, it already begins with 175% of your own Toughness and VIT. In addition, there are barrier traits all over the place. In the third place, you can send it away before it dies and recall it 10 sec later. in the 4th place, the Elite Signet recalls it EVEN if it's dead If none of that can keep your mech alive or avoiding or mitigating the 100 CD on Golem death for you ... then it's not the spec's problem, it's you. You can't recall it 10 seconds later. The cooldown scales with the health of your mech. Every percent your mech is missing on health means it will be down for longer once you recall it. At least read the descriptions before making claims like these. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayHawk.7560 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 While there are a lot of complaints going for some reason no one seems to be commenting on the insane amounts of alacrity and decent barrier generation which is surprising. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aravind.9610 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, GrayHawk.7560 said: While there are a lot of complaints going for some reason no one seems to be commenting on the insane amounts of alacrity and decent barrier generation which is surprising. 5 man alacrity so won't replace renegade. Even if it had 10 man alacrity, renegade is just easier to play than engineer. Renegade also brings other utility like stability and bubble in fractals. Barrier can be handled by scourge in the few fights where it is useful like Boneskinner. Edited October 23, 2021 by Aravind.9610 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 The big thing i am realizing about this elite spec pet is it lack personality in how it looks. Anet realty needs to make it have more living quality at least some change to it looks base off of your set up for it. The golem have a lot of personality to them and i know anet is full of artiest that can realty put a lot more into the eng pet to make it feel as if its yours. I think it would go a long way to a feeling of lost when the pet dies and if you win a fight due to this pet as if your bonded to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fear.3865 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 The identity of engi is the toolbelt, they could forced us to play with the toolbelt and the management of activating / removing the mecha. Feels a bit like low budget ranger to me, I dont get the idea of "We did not want 100% uptime mecha", if we got nothing left when it's out. Seems just poor design. As a pvp/wvw player, im really concerned about the viability (or the overpowerness) of this spec, depending on the mecha survavibility (and ours). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyrak.7260 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Would love to see a trait to be able to ride/personally control the mech; either by hanging off the side or using the Jade tech to encompass the player somewhat. Give a new #1 and #2 attack, then turn F1-3 into 3-5 when mounted on the mech Ah well, maybe for a future rework XD A man can dream 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfyrik.2017 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 13 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said: Laughable because the people that continue to complain that pets are a bad idea continue to force themselves to play the only pet class in this game (+ 1 espec incoming maybe). Pretty hard to have sympathy for people that subject themselves to the pain. That's a strange argument. How is the fact that pets have permentantly been demonstrably sub-par, in any way changed by the fact that people still like to play ranger, despite the obvious problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 A concern I have regarding the whole toolbelt discussion is from a competitive standpoint. Theres a possibility that wvw and spvp will see the cc immunity bar (i know the name just cant remember it right now) removed. Naturally youd want to be able to support ur mech with stab or super speed to make combat more fluent. However, the only aoe stability core engineer has is on a toss elixir, aka a toolbelt skill. Obviously a solution to this woul be to spec the mech for ranged fight, although, just like CMC said on stream many of the mechs skills have a windup time and easily interrupted. Of course we dont know what trajectory the mech balancing will go but as i said this is a bit of a concern to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomboed.5697 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 3 hours ago, The Fear.3865 said: The identity of engi is the toolbelt Actually, no. Toolbelt is not the identity of engi. The Kits are. They are the core of engi design: we have few weapons and no weapon swap, but we have our own unique weapons that we can freely put on skill bar. But these unique weapons fill utility slots, so we were given a toolbelt to compensate. Toolbelt is a by-product of Kits. However, this by-product is an important part of current engineer design. Unless Core Engineer is reworked, Toolbelt will always be a crucial part of the class. Another reason why it is so problematic to replace toolbelt skills with e-spec mechanics is the fact that toolbelt skills, unlike guardian virtues or mesmer shatters, do not exist by themselves - they are connected to other skills. When Mesmer e-spec changes Shatter skills, it only affects Shatter mechanic and associated traits. But when Engineer e-spec somehow affect toolbelt skills, it also affect the entire pool of healing, utility and elite skills, because all of them designed around having an associated toolbelt skills with them. This is why making e-specs for Engi is so difficult and problematic. With other classes devs can simply tinker with mechanics, change them and replace without huge consequences for overall core design of the class. But any tinkering with Engineer toolbelt affect the entire class and ALL of his abilities. The core engi requires a huge rework. Like it or not, but it is a fact. You can be very conservative and like it as it is, but you cannot deny that core design is problematic because of so many interconnections between all parts of the class. Engineer as a class was clearly designed without idea of future e-specs in mind. It is not a bad design by itself, in vacuum, but it is outdated in a current state of the game. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 54 minutes ago, Bomboed.5697 said: Another reason why it is so problematic to replace toolbelt skills with e-spec mechanics is the fact that toolbelt skills, unlike guardian virtues or mesmer shatters, do not exist by themselves - they are connected to other skills. When Mesmer e-spec changes Shatter skills, it only affects Shatter mechanic and associated traits. But when Engineer e-spec somehow affect toolbelt skills, it also affect the entire pool of healing, utility and elite skills, because all of them designed around having an associated toolbelt skills with them. While I agree with you on some points, I disagree on this. Shatters are way harder to balance because they are affected by way more traits than Toolbelt skills plus have a resource that is baked into almost every aspect of the class. Yes, it is true that losing Toolbelts is a big deal. But it is not necessarily an issue. As long as the Golem skills interact with Toolbelt traits - which they apparently do - the relevant question is: Is the Golem - pet and AI related kinks in GW2 aside - worth losing the access to Toolbelt skills? The answer to this will come down to balance and your personal preferance. But it replacing Toolbelt is neither bad design nor an issue per se. Imho it's actually one of the more successful class mechanic alterarions ANet has introduced. It also means that Mechanists might use different Utilities than Core, Scrapper or Holo because the Toolbelts don't matter. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx.9058 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 After reviewing further, and the fact that mech respawn time is based on a percentage of remaining health when it is dismissed, I agree that we need toolbelt skills back at a minimum. They're going to have to come up with toolbelt skills for signets, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Right now, if we choose to use any of our kits, we don't get the toolbelt skill that's supposed to replace that utility slot. Whenever our mech is on cooldown, we're left feeling like half a class with no toolbelt skills at all and no mech to make up for the lack thereof. Mechanist still has no weapon swap like all engineer specs, so we're stuck with very limited weapon options, which means you need to use kits, which means you need toolbelt skills, it's that straightforward. 5 hours ago, Phyrak.7260 said: Would love to see a trait to be able to ride/personally control the mech; either by hanging off the side or using the Jade tech to encompass the player somewhat. Give a new #1 and #2 attack, then turn F1-3 into 3-5 when mounted on the mech Ah well, maybe for a future rework XD A man can dream I like this idea too, being able to ride on the mech's shoulder would be awesome. I'd say it should keep your mainhand/offhand skills on 1-5, but use the mech's health pool as a personal barrier while you're riding it, could make the mechanist very tanky and a good stand in for chronomancer on that front. You'd still keep your mech skills on F1-F3, and maybe just your equipped utility skills would change to new abilities while riding the mech? Just a thought. Still, aside from toolbelt issues, the biggest thing I think is a problem with mechanist right now is weapon options. You're discouraged from using kits, which is why engineers don't have in-combat weapon swap in the first place, yet you're still very limited in your weapon choices. you've got rifle, pistol/shield, mace/shield, pistol/pistol, or mace/pistol... that's it. Pistol offhand still feels really bad with only having one useful skill, not sure how mace will work yet in practice, and pistol or rifle mainhand just lack damage output. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomboed.5697 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said: Shatters are way harder to balance because they are affected by way more traits That simply not true at all. Not matter how many traits affect them, the Shatter skills themselves always are set in stone by design and they always do almost the same things on all specs: F1 for direct damage, F2 for condi, F3 for CC and F4 for utility. Their design is universal, they are not customizable and they all work with the same resource, even virtuoso. They are always affected by traits in the same way. Virtuoso lack of synergy with traits was just a bug. 16 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said: But it is not necessarily an issue. As long as the Golem skills interact with Toolbelt traits - which they apparently do It is an issue simply because it is not only about traits, but also about other abilities. ALL engineer abilities are designed to have an associated toolbelt skills. It is a part of their balance, it is a part of their power level. Most of the skills are good only because of their toolbelt skills. 21 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said: It also means that Mechanists might use different Utilities than Core, Scrapper or Holo because the Toolbelts don't matter. Mechanist design simply limits the choice of 6-10 buttons skills. It looks like a "5 signet Engi" joke is not a joke at all, because signets are the only skills designed and balanced without toolbelt. The irony is that Mechanist presented as highly customizable jack of all trades, but in reality is will be the less customizable spec, because Mech customization costs the entire trait line and also limits all other form of customization due to removal of toolbelt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aymnad.9023 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 I expected this spec to give a new meaning to the term healbot 😄. I am a bit disappointed on the healing side. It is not as strong as a scrapper for support or has not everything like a holo. Yet it still looks like this spec has a strong dps, the stats sharing with the jade are going to be really fun for some players, the signets are good, some traits are really interesting. I think it will work, offer some good versatility, has great visuals but right now I cannot point out what seems to be missing to be more excited. Maybe I expected too much support or customization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Wax Orc.7695 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Mechanist will be my go to Engineer Elite, when hanging out in Lion's Arch. After factoring in that AI love for standing in AoE, the lack of toolbelt skills and weapon choice, the elite spec traits that are useless while the Mech is on cooldown, and the general state of Engineer traitlines... seems Lion's Arch will be the niche for serious Mechanist gameplay. So, I have one DEMAND, make that Mech do all my /emotes with me! 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Just now, Bomboed.5697 said: That simply not true at all. Not matter how many traits affect them, the Shatter skills themselves always are set in stone by design and they always do almost the same things on all specs: F1 for direct damage, F2 for condi, F3 for CC and F4 for utility. Their design is universal, they are not customizable and they all work with the same resource, even virtuoso. They are always affected by traits in the same way. Virtuoso lack of synergy with traits was just a bug. You got the causality wrong here. Their functionality is "set in stone" due to traits not because they innately are. If they where fewer Shatter traits or only Shatter traits that affected only one Shatter in a specific way, there would be way more options for designing new Shatters or elite spec mechanics for Mesmers. For example, if Chronomancer was the designated support spec with "time" theme, F1 could provide Quickness, F2 could Slow, F3 could Stun and F4 could provide Alacrity - or whatever, really. Why isn't that? Because traits always cater to F1 being power damage, F2 being condi and so on. Those traits would break or be useless if they gave Mesmers other Shatters. But it certainly isn't because their design is set in stone. Now, if you lose Toolbelts and you only picked Utilities because their Toolbelt was great... guess what. Pick different ones which are useful without their Toolbelt skill. It's that easy. Regarding Virtuoso and traits: ANet either didn't plan on many core interactions or just didn't get there. The issue of lacking scaling for 5 blades is the smallest issue here... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomboed.5697 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said: Now, if you lose Toolbelts and you only picked Utilities because their Toolbelt was great... guess what. Pick different ones which are useful without their Toolbelt skill. It's that easy. Which are....signets, right? Yeah, sounds easy as hell. And VERY CUSTOMIZABLE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 You speak like you'e losing all core Utilities and Kits which is not the case at all. 😉😉 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomboed.5697 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said: You got the causality wrong here. Their functionality is "set in stone" due to traits not because they innately are. If they where fewer Shatter traits or only Shatter traits that affected only one Shatter in a specific way, there would be way more options for designing new Shatters or elite spec mechanics for Mesmers. I just checked all Mesmer traits. Guess what - you are wrong. None of the traits require Shatter skills to be set in stone. Most of them just proc from any shatter skills, some just require shatter skill to hit an enemy, which is pretty universal requirement. Only a couple of them affect the exact shatter skill, but in that case traits are defined by skills, not vice versa. So nope, Shatter skills are not set in stone because of traits. They are set in stone because of design intent. Or, maybe, just creative laziness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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