A Critical Flaw with the Mastery System

[Charall.4710]

Just wanted to express this here for a second since it's been a issue I think needs to be looked at and considered by Anet.

Since Heart of Thorns we've had a mastery system which honestly kinda is a bit lackluster, grinding once for masteries and when it's done there is no reason to continue grinding for them. (So much for the no grind philosophy.) But that while annoying is not the real core problem here, the problem is the way in which you are forced to grind them if you want to grind them at all. 

For example, below is something everyone already knows. Zone tying and expansion grinding.

Core Tyria Masteries = Only able to be ground in Core Tyria.
Heart of Thorns Masteries = Only able to be ground in Heart of Thorns.
Path of Fire Masteries = Only able to be ground in Path of Fire.
Icebrood Sage Masteries = Only able to be ground in the Icebrood Sage.

The problem here (Anet I hope you are paying attention) is that once you complete a set of masteries aka.. Core Tyria, you move on to the next zone and abandon older bits of content for the next one (Assuming you are focused on just mastery grinding). I understand the need to lock masteries behind buying an expansion but once it is purchased those masteries should be available to grind for in all bits of content. I don't want to be forced to grind a glider mastery in heart of thorns since to be honest most of those zones are seriously annoying. (To which I regretfully already did.)

But this is also limiting to newer masteries since it contributes to the one and done idea, any player who is not new and has been to core tyria will realize how baren alot of the zones feel. Imagine how much mastery grinding could actually spruce that up for players like myself who loves zones like queensdale or metrica province!

I am asking you to open up the mastery system grinding to other zones, not the points themselves which need to be obtained in the designated expansion.

[Sobx.1758]

You're not forced to grind them. You can play the game in relevant maps to gain xp for respective masteries, then get achievements/insights you need or want and pretty inevitably progress. If you want to somehow immediately grind them out, it's your choice.

The rest of your post seems to try suggesting that the main/only reason to play in respective zones is to get their masteries. That's just not true. Not only that, but the MASTERY -of all things- point related to the maps logically should be gained in their respective content you're "mastering".

Edited November 4, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[mythical.6315]

8 minutes ago, Dravvi.3146 said:

So much for the no grind philosophy

You missed what that no grind philosophy was referring to. 

[Khisanth.2948]

That is not a flaw in the mastery system. That is a "how the heck are people still having problem gaining exp in this game?" problem. You are going to have to spend time in the relevant area anyway to get the mastery points otherwise you'll just be stuck with filled exp bars and no way to level the mastery.

[Khisanth.2948]

3 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

You missed what that no grind philosophy was referring to. 

I think there is universal law that says quotes must be taken out of context. 😛

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

Hmm last I checked hardly anyone had any issues with Mastery System. In fact it's the one system that encourages players to visit other zones. 

So no, this isn't an issue with the game... gonna have to say this again but this sounds more like a personal issue than an actual design flaw. 

[Gibson.4036]

Okay, I know this is a complain and change it thread, but since the mastery design is pretty obviously intentional and unlikely to change any time soon, here's my experience with getting experience to level masteries in each area.

Core Tyria - It's hard for me to imagine anyone being shy on experience in core Tyria. Still, if you're ever going to want a first gen legendary weapon, world completion should give you way more than enough exp to finish your core masteries.

HoT - The Tarir meta gives a big chunk of experience. After I'd moved on I went back and did that event periodically to get both loot and experience to finish out masteries.

PoF - The treat achievements where you run around and get treats for each of the mounts was very useful in filling experience bars to finish out my mount masteries. Also, I've recently discovered that doing Griffon courses gives a crazy amount of experience, if you happen to have a Griffon.

IBS - You actually want to level IBS masteries other than Waystation?

Edited November 4, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Handsel.2891]

According to gw2efficiency.com, only about 15% of the players have already collected the 366 Mastery Points needed to max out the Mastery Levels. Granted, it's not evenly distributed among the regions, but even in the case of core masteries, it only goes up to 40% of the players.

I think the problem of grinding is one that you imposed on yourself. There are achievements that fit that categorisation better than the mastery system. You can always opt not to do all of them. It's only a race if you make it to be.

[ArchonWing.9480]

The only set of masteries required to play the zone is HoT (and yea it was the worst) and now with mounts much less so. Most PoF masteries are optional, and core is definitely optional.

OP's approach is fundamentally flawed, because it focuses on the endpoint, instead of just playing the game.

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, Dravvi.3146 said:

(So much for the no grind philosophy.)

1. Take a statement out of context

2. Use out of context statement to justify a change to the game we don't need. 

The complaint doesn't make much sense. It's no more a 'grind' to get levels than it is to get the MP's, since they are all based on XP.  You do realize this is done intentionally and unlikely to change right?

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Arnox.5128]

Ok, I don't think people are being entirely fair to OP here.

It's easy to dismiss the complaints as, "Oh, you're just being lazy," and "Oh, you don't have to do it if you don't want to." But some Masteries are quite literally needed to do a few basic things in the game such as building gen. 2 legendary weapons or accessing certain areas of the game.

If all the Masteries were just like a fun little perk system that wasn't ever needed to acquire items and experience content in the game, I don't think OP and me would have nearly as much of an issue with it. But it is needed, and there's no way to get past it for those core things. Therefore, it feels like grinding. Because it is. You have to get the right Masteries in order to progress.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Arnox.5128

[costepj.5120]

4 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

But some Masteries are quite literally needed to do a few basic things in the game such as building gen. 2 legendary weapons or accessing certain areas of the game.

You lost me at "basic things such as building legendary weapons".

[Arnox.5128]

2 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

You lost me at "basic things such as building legendary weapons".

Are you one of those people who thinks legendary weapons are "mostly cosmetic"?

EDIT: Actually, on second thought, I know what you're talking about now, but even putting gen. 2 legendaries aside, some Masteries are still absolutely required.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Arnox.5128

[costepj.5120]

I've logged 14000 hours and crafted one legendary weapon, so it's hardly a basic part of the game.

[Arnox.5128]

Just now, costepj.5120 said:

I've logged 14000 hours and crafted one legendary weapon, so it's hardly a basic part of the game.

See my edit.

[costepj.5120]

4 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

some Masteries are still absolutely required

And I have maxed all the mastery lines, but I did so without any grind at all; I just played the game,

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

Are you one of those people who thinks legendary weapons are "mostly cosmetic"?

EDIT: Actually, on second thought, I know what you're talking about now, but even putting gen. 2 legendaries aside, some Masteries are still absolutely required.

Well, hold on here ... that's a fair analysis ... crafting a gen 2 legendary is not a 'basic' thing and as far as this is concerned, Yes, Gen2 legendaries in this regard are only cosmetic because gen1 legendary weapons allow players to access the functionality without Masteries. 

[Arnox.5128]

8 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

And I have maxed all the mastery lines, but I did so without any grind at all; I just played the game,

It's not about whether you can do it or not. It's about choice. Some people want to get the mounts and/or move on with the story in a timely manner. The required Masteries make that speed of acquisition not possible at all for little, if any reason. This just creates a new level cap with extra steps.

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, hold on here ... that's a fair analysis ... crafting a gen 2 legendary is not a 'basic' thing and as far as this is concerned, Yes, Gen2 legendaries in this regard are only cosmetic because gen1 legendary weapons allow players to access the functionality without Masteries. 

Yes, that's why I applied the edit.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Arnox.5128

[Substance E.4852]

The only way you're even remotely """forced""" to grind for masteries is if you either:

A. Sit in town and prefer to flex your latest gem purchase rather than actually play the game
B. Feel compelled to accrue the XP as fast as humanly possible and seek out the quickest but most monotonously boring XP farm possible

The only time restricting bar filling to a specific area is an issue is when it apparently prevents you from doing B.

 

[Dante.1508]

In all the years they've been released i still am missing so many.. I will not do content i hate to get some annoying mastery.. So i miss out and i guess i never will complete them..

All masteries should have been in the open world to be found not hidden away in stupid achievements and silverwastes zergs etc.. I never finished legendary or commander masteries.

I'm missing HoT and PoF masteries because i cannot even figure out how to get more..

Edited November 5, 2021 by Dante.1508

[LSD.4673]

6 hours ago, MikeG.6389 said:

According to gw2efficiency.com, only about 15% of the players have already collected the 366 Mastery Points needed to max out the Mastery Levels. Granted, it's not evenly distributed among the regions, but even in the case of core masteries, it only goes up to 40% of the players.

I think the problem of grinding is one that you imposed on yourself. There are achievements that fit that categorisation better than the mastery system. You can always opt not to do all of them. It's only a race if you make it to be.

That's such an absurdly irrelevant example to base your argument on. Especially considering the fact that few players will ever hit 366 -- that's raids (aimed at a small fraction of the community), all expansions and 3 of the 4 LW releases. 

 

Nice to see people farting out the tired old argument of "u dont have 2 do it :)" 

Reminds me of the people asking where the hell end-game was, and being told to go complete Queensdale hearts cos "all of gaem is endgaem".

 

Now personally, the only mastery i had issue with was HoT, where in hindsight, just one mastery category needed more exp than the entirety of the following expansion. But hey-ho, at least HoT's had zones worth returning to...

[Handsel.2891]

13 minutes ago, LSD.4673 said:

That's such an absurdly irrelevant example to base your argument on. Especially considering the fact that few players will ever hit 366 -- that's raids (aimed at a small fraction of the community), all expansions and 3 of the 4 LW releases. 

The Raids category contribute a whopping 8 Mastery Points to the total and you "only" have to kill one boss to unlock the track and then you can level it up in any HoT map. But even if you take that away, it doesn't change the statistic all that much. The point is that the vast majority of the players don't have the problem OP created for themselves. They claim that once you levelled up your masteries, you abandon that region for the next. That statistic showed that it may apply to some people, but definitely not most players, simply because most players still have (many) masteries to unlock.

35 minutes ago, LSD.4673 said:

Nice to see people farting out the tired old argument of "u dont have 2 do it :)" 

At the risk of breaking the same wind again: you really don't. Many people will tell you that most masteries are downright useless. And apart from the obvious benefits of mounts, gliding and a few other masteries, I am inclined to agree with them. I have maxed out all of them, so I know which ones I have no real use for. I didn't do it because I felt the need to, either, but because I have been playing the game long enough to have them done without actually forcing it on myself.

 

Anyway, it's only grinding if you only have the end result in mind and/or you don't actually enjoy playing the game. That's my opinion.

[Rasimir.6239]

3 hours ago, MikeG.6389 said:

Anyway, it's only grinding if you only have the end result in mind and/or you don't actually enjoy playing the game. That's my opinion.

This so much!

 

We have had  threads complaining about "mastery grind" or "experience grind for masteries" on this forum before, but they all came down to people trying to rush to max mastery in the most efficient way instead of just playing the game any odd way you feel like.

 

This game literally throws experience at you, you can't avoid it. Go anywhere your character hasn't been before, harvest any resource nodes you stumble upon, accidentally take part in an event you might not even have noticed, all of this gives you experience.

 

The game doesn't just start when you have gained all mastery levels. The game starts when you pick it up. Just wander around aimlessly, take in the sights, figure out what parts of the game you actually enjoy and want to play, and mastery experience (and leveling experience before it if you don't want to use scrolls and tomes) will accumulate if you want it or not.

 

My personal experience was the exact oposite of what the op describes: I have played whatever looked fun to me, and mastery levels just happened. To me that's the best thing about our mastery system: you don't have to worry about it. If you play, experience will come (and a good bunch of mastery points, too). No need to grind anything, nor to lament about lost experience if you play in the "wrong" region, because it won't be long and you'll be maxed out anyway.

 

It's not the system that is flawed. It's the mindset of "getting it done in the most efficient way". You are trying to use the mastery system to "prepare for playing the game", but that is not what it is. The mastery system is playing the game. It's not the chore you need to do before you get to enjoy the rest of the day, it is part of that rest of the day that you can spend however you feel like.

[ASP.8093]

You get the XP from just doing whatever. I think most people are bottlenecked on the actual insights/achievements required to get the points (e.g. some of the Icebrood ones require doing specific content in specific ways).

One of the virtues of the current mastery/achievement system is that it does get you to try stuff you might not try otherwise, like puzzles, or world bosses, or strike missions.

[Vayne.8563]

I have maxed out my mastery points. I have never grinded to get there.  People who play the game get masteries organically.  People who play to get masteries and nothing else choose to grind them.  I just play the game.  

Edited November 5, 2021 by Vayne.8563