Sarius.9285 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 14 hours ago, DarcShriek.5829 said: Isn't Warframe a P2W game? I don't think GW2 should adopt the tactics of P2W games. not more than gw2 is. The systems are pretty similar 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Giant Dusty Wintersday Gift was a decaying regular wintersday gift. Mostly as some kind of a gimmick effect, without any negative impact for the owner. That is the closest we have ever been to that idea. 16 hours ago, Redfeather.6401 said: I guess we will leave decaying currency alone. But it has a thoughtful purpose. It is meant to keep human nature in check. To preserve the health of systems. I agree with the others, punishing people for not being online for some time is a horrible idea. But having a currency/item that changes over time can be interesting. A few thoughts: - A home instance node that multiplies items you put in. Let us say you can put in pieces of unidentified gear (blue, green or yellow). You start with one item. After one day, it doubles. You can decide if you want to empty it (completely) or leave it in the node. After 8 days, a cap of 250 (= 1 stack) is reached. If you leave the items in the node, you will be stuck at 250 until you remove them. If you remove them, the you can start over. Maybe with a regeneration phase of a few days. - For completing a renown heart, you can purchase 5 solar crystals for a little karma. You can exchange those for stuff at a vendor, or you leave them in your inventory. Renown hearts recharge daily. Let us say there is a sunlight channeling event by an asura-krewe, happens several times a day. Crystals can only be leveled up once per week, BL key run reset-timer. If you have the solar crystals in your inventory, while doing the event, the level up 1 tier. You can only stack crystals of the same tier. The higher the tier, the more exclusive items you can exchange for them, the other items become significantly cheaper at the vendor. Similar to the Zephyrite affection in Drytop. It is your choice what you do with the crystals, when you trade them for items and if you level them up. The more time you invest, the more useful the crystals become. - A Norn distillery, brewing some high quality ale. The bottles are trophy items that can be sold to any vendor. Every week, they make a new brew. Adding + 10 silver on the previous brews. The longer you keep the ale, the more money you can get from selling it. If you have a few bottles and happen to have a one year break, you have some good pocket money to start over ^^. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xana.9453 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 There's actually weapons in Warframe I stay away from because of the Argon Crystals. I refuse to spend 3 or more hours trying to get an rng currency to drop only to have it go away in 24 hours. Hard pass. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuks.8241 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 I dont see how such a currency/mat would improve in any way the mats and currencies we have now. I see it only as a grinding time sink system. GW2 already has a decent crafting system that utilises most of the lower tier mats and thus makes vanilla maps populated. And having to farm a new currency every new release at your own pace sound way better to me than having to farm materials within 24hours or whatever time frame before using it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfeather.6401 Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 Do you guys like farming 250 of something? Because that's a 'sink' added to the game to remove a resource people farm and hoard. GW2's use of sinks is absurd. The amount of materials and currencies and 250 of this and 250 of that and 250 of the other to make one thing is the result of a ridiculous item inflation problem. 1 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 I don't see an inflation problem. Could you be more specific? As for 250 (or "stacks") of things, they accumulate quite easily by playing the game. Hoarding really has nothing to do with it. Again, is this about mystic coins? 3 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfeather.6401 Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 1 minute ago, kharmin.7683 said: I don't see an inflation problem. Could you be more specific? As for 250 (or "stacks") of things, they accumulate quite easily by playing the game. Hoarding really has nothing to do with it. Again, is this about mystic coins? 250 of anything is a sink created from an inflation problem. Inflation comes from tons of something being entered into a system and not being removed. GW2 has that problem and relies on a huge amount of sinks. Everywhere I look is sinks. Why on earth would you think mystic coins has that problem? I just don't understand why you persistently make such a bizarre connection. 15 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 32 minutes ago, Redfeather.6401 said: 250 of anything is a sink created from an inflation problem. Inflation comes from tons of something being entered into a system and not being removed. GW2 has that problem and relies on a huge amount of sinks. Everywhere I look is sinks. Why on earth would you think mystic coins has that problem? I just don't understand why you persistently make such a bizarre connection. You need 250 for mystic tribute for example. All legendaries need 77 clovers so more coins 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Zen.9364 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Redfeather.6401 said: 250 of anything is a sink created from an inflation problem. Inflation comes from tons of something being entered into a system and not being removed. GW2 has that problem and relies on a huge amount of sinks. Everywhere I look is sinks. Why on earth would you think mystic coins has that problem? I just don't understand why you persistently make such a bizarre connection. Drizzlewood has a sink for excess materials. So does Festival of the Four Winds. The cost of most items (crafting or purchased) isn't so much a sink as a balance against what a player can gather or purchase from the TP. Resources or Currency used in Crafting or Purchasing Items are balanced between accrual and cost. A decaying currency wouldn't change this scenario, nor would adjusting the accrual for resources or the cost for crafting or purchasing items. The cost of making or buying items needs to be balanced against the accrual in some capacity. What a decaying currency might promote is more 'play to earn' situations where a player is farming specifically to craft or buy an item. While that could create some interesting play patterns, why would anyone engage with an activity if the rewards will decay over time unless they actually need that resource or currency? Players will engage with content that is rewarding more often than not. Rewarding can be as simple as "I enjoy this thing" but a lot of players make that choice alongside "what resource or currency does this give me?" I am sure most players would need some good reasons to play content with decaying, reduced or no rewards. As it stands, and as others have stated, currently you can go and play a lot of content and get something you can use at any time. This keeps a lot of content open to all players. Edited February 21, 2022 by Mungo Zen.9364 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 22 hours ago, Redfeather.6401 said: In games if something new is added as an item to motivate people to play the game for more time, it usually is bought with a new currency because there are players who have farmed and hoarded the existing currencies. But in games I've seen decaying currency. It has a half-life mechanic where half of it dissipates every day so it can't be hoarded and slept on. That way the game can release new items and still use that currency as it means people still need to get that new currency once the new items are revealed and released. I play warframe and it uses argon crystals as a material for old and new items alike and players still regularly do missions to acquire argon even after playing for years, because they can't farm it and sit on it. It has to be gotten around when it's needed. I really like the mechanic of a decaying currency because it cuts down on currency bloat in games and can get people to go back and do something later on. Each land region could have a spirit of 'region name' currency. And new consumable items could be released that use these currencies. So if someone wants to get the items they'll do stuff in that region to get the 'spirit currency' because it has to be acquired when it is needed. I think it would be a nice way to make all the zones valuable without relying on a resource subject to inflation. edit: Just needed to point out it's to get people to earn a resource as it is needed and used once it is earned. Designed specifically to not reward people who overindulge and hoard, because that type of behaviour devalues the resource. I can't argue with people who don't like it. It's interesting to know everyone vehemently hates it. 😂 There;s gainful employment waiting for you at EA. On these forums we see a lot of people crib ideas from other games and say "wouldn't it be nice if..." This is the first time I have seen a blatantly predatory design choice, favored by mobile game and cash grab devs, be so positively positioned. Does anyone else remember gaming before brainwashed players actively suggested ideas to developers to bend us over and paint them as a benefit? Good times. 6 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega.6801 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Nope. Sounds like a shady and manipulative practice to milk customers. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ens.9854 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) Some heavy mischaracterizations of argon crystals here. You generally only ever need 1-3 at a time which you can easily get in <30 minutes (<10 if you run a certain dimensional jester) of playing unless you are really, really unlucky (or don't break boxes). The reason people hate them so much is because the content is otherwise unrewarding. It would be like adding a decaying currency to cursed shore events. I would favor this system to replace some of the already rare crafting mats. I generally already have to stop what I'd rather be doing to get charged quartz or similar nonsense materials. I'd rather it just be easier to get and decay to keep it relevant. Anet seems to agree somewhat as we've seen all these stat combos made tradeable (though often not cheap). That said, this probably strays into mechanic bloat territory. It's just added confusion for minor benefit. Edited February 21, 2022 by ens.9854 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuzuru.3651 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 3 hours ago, Redfeather.6401 said: Do you guys like farming 250 of something? Because that's a 'sink' added to the game to remove a resource people farm and hoard. GW2's use of sinks is absurd. The amount of materials and currencies and 250 of this and 250 of that and 250 of the other to make one thing is the result of a ridiculous item inflation problem. You do realize that this reasoning is faulty because even new currency, that you said were the problem to address there, use the same number ? Despite no one having any hoarding because new currency. What is the reason behind those number? Simple, If you can sold a reward for 250, that also mean you can sold another one for 1, that's not possible if you start at 5. So, the 250 is your long term reward while the 1 is the very short term one, and both are essential. (And any reward in between those values, of course) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) That idea, like the idea of gear progression, is meant to obsolete your progress. To make all the effort you've put in the game just disappear at some point. GW2 is a game that is not supposed to work like that. And that is exactly why we play this game, instead of those different ones that do have systems like that. Edited February 21, 2022 by Astralporing.1957 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ens.9854 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 21 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said: That idea, like the idea of gear progression, is meant to obsolete your progress. To make all the effort you've put in the game just disappear at some point. GW2 is a game that is not supposed to work like that. And that is exactly why we play this game, instead of those different ones that do have systems like that. It wouldn't obsolete progress, since nobody would bother farming hundreds of something while knowing it is going to decay. Which is the problem - it encourages disengagement with the content. As for progress being obsoleted... I already have my progress "obsoleted" the first time I try to craft a Gen 2 legendary and realize that all the mithril I've ever gathered is a completely irrelevant amount. Disclaimer: I still think its not a great idea. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Redfeather.6401 said: 250 of anything is a sink created from an inflation problem. Inflation comes from tons of something being entered into a system and not being removed. GW2 has that problem and relies on a huge amount of sinks. Everywhere I look is sinks. Why on earth would you think mystic coins has that problem? I just don't understand why you persistently make such a bizarre connection. Other than mystic coins, what items are farmed that can be considered to have an inflated price? Most (if not all?) map currencies are account bound, so there's no rate of inflation on those. Of course there are sinks. Those are in place to provide incentive for players to return to certain maps to engage in content to either farm or spend the currency there. Can you be more specific as to what this proposal is trying to address? It almost seems like a solution in search of a problem. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) Actually ... it's not a horrible idea depending on how it's implemented. Of course, people don't like the idea of their currency decaying so I wouldn't do that ... but if something else decayed that required currency to repair or restore, it would act the same way and be less likely to offend the playerbase. I think that's what Anet was going for with gear repairs, but it was done wrong; it punished people the more they played. Decaying currency should punish people who play LESS not more. My issue is that I don't see an explanation of why we would want this in GW2. What problem is being addressed? Edited February 21, 2022 by Obtena.7952 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 59 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said: Actually ... it's not a horrible idea depending on how it's implemented. Of course, people don't like the idea of their currency decaying so I wouldn't do that ... but if something else decayed that required currency to repair or restore, it would act the same way and be less likely to offend the playerbase. I think that's what Anet was going for with gear repairs, but it was done wrong; it punished people the more they played. Decaying currency should punish people who play LESS not more. No, it should not. While rewarding people for playing more is completely fine, any design that straight out punishes players for playing less is against one of the core ideas behind this game, and should never be implemented. 13 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZerotheFang.5890 Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 On 2/20/2022 at 9:08 PM, DarcShriek.5829 said: Isn't Warframe a P2W game? I don't think GW2 should adopt the tactics of P2W games. not really you can earn everything i even plat in game just takes time and depending on what is selling high like rivens/ sets of prime warframes or weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 10 hours ago, Redfeather.6401 said: Do you guys like farming 250 of something? Because that's a 'sink' added to the game to remove a resource people farm and hoard. GW2's use of sinks is absurd. The amount of materials and currencies and 250 of this and 250 of that and 250 of the other to make one thing is the result of a ridiculous item inflation problem. There's a bootstrap paradox in here. People wouldn't farm and hoard something useless. The reason why players farm a material is if they intend to use it, or they intend to sell it to someone who will use it. The price of any tradeable item is determined by it's supply and demand, after all. If an item already has a lot of demand, then a sink for it wouldn't need to be added to the game. The interesting thing about economies is that they're the movement of wealth, and not necessarily wealth in general. A player who's hoarding a high demand material is only rich if they liquidate that material, thus they're no longer hoarding it. Item decay doesn't stop players from farming something. It does quite literally the opposite: it forces players to farm something. A decaying item cannot be gradually acquired nor sold in bulk. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcatraznc.3869 Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 That comparaison is flawed. Argon is a material used to craft warframe/weapon/clan upgrade/whatever. A more accurate depiction would be : "imagine if ecto would decay". And I can tell you that is a bad idea. Warframe is not an MMO, you can get away with having to farm X stuff because it decay. Usually you craft a weapon/warframe or whatever you need and then you dont keep farming argon because you have no point gathering material you dont need right now and the said material decay. In GW2 (or any MMO for that) you cant really apply that concept because you often dont need 1, nor 2 nor 3 but 10-20-50-100 or more. Can you imagine farming 100 ecto in like 2-3 days ? Sure it may not sound much for someone who can afford to play 8 hours/day but for other that's a lot of time. And I am not talking about the trading post... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 12 hours ago, Redfeather.6401 said: Do you guys like farming 250 of something? Because that's a 'sink' added to the game to remove a resource people farm and hoard. GW2's use of sinks is absurd. The amount of materials and currencies and 250 of this and 250 of that and 250 of the other to make one thing is the result of a ridiculous item inflation problem. and yet I can accumulate those at my own pace. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeoLegend.5132 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Its a fun mechanic for a side currency we should try. As a *SIDE* currency 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopoet.2960 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 I like the concept but I wouldn't use it for currency; that's how you get inflation. It might be interesting on consumables but flip it around so things are just better fresh. Like for food if you use it a few hours after you made it you get an extra kick. Maybe new crafted gear is "shiny" and has extra stats for a few weeks before returning back to normal. Something like that could motivate people to buy more things which ... unfortunately may lead to inflation but it would be more fun. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue.8235 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 On 2/21/2022 at 1:08 PM, Redfeather.6401 said: Do you guys like farming 250 of something? Because that's a 'sink' added to the game to remove a resource people farm and hoard. GW2's use of sinks is absurd. The amount of materials and currencies and 250 of this and 250 of that and 250 of the other to make one thing is the result of a ridiculous item inflation problem. On 2/21/2022 at 1:20 PM, Redfeather.6401 said: 250 of anything is a sink created from an inflation problem. Inflation comes from tons of something being entered into a system and not being removed. GW2 has that problem and relies on a huge amount of sinks. Everywhere I look is sinks. Why on earth would you think mystic coins has that problem? I just don't understand why you persistently make such a bizarre connection. You're complaining about an arbitrary number. Using high integer values allows for the fine tuning of acquisition/cost without resorting to decimals. I doubt your argument would change at all if the maximum stack of an item is 50, because, again, you are merely complaining about a random number. While your oversimplified definition of inflation is satisfactory for the conversation at hand, your application of the term "inflation" is completely incorrect. 250 of something does not mean there is a problem with inflation. It's just an arbitrary number with no meaning on its own, which is how you are using it. 250 in the context of every other piece of information that makes up the analysis of a macro-economy may or may not be an indicator of inflation, depending on the context of all other procurable and assembled data. Another way to look at it is in terms of inventory slots rather than 250. Things require an inventory slot as a price. some items fill that slot with a single loot drop while others fill only a fraction of a slot per instance of loot. Are you complaining that an inventory slot is an indication of inflation? Do you detest the use of fractions? It's hard to determine what the problem is because you really are complaining about a completely arbitrary and meaningless subtopic. You don't provide any discussion of time (such as time to acquire a resource), which would at least provide a bit more meaning to the number 250. Essentially, the above quoted posts boil down to "I don't like the number 250." As for decaying currencies, my opinion is pretty well covered in the responses already provided. It's a bad idea. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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