DO NOT nerf Dragon's End meta.

[Sigerk.2897]

This comment is purely about the fight itself, not achievements tied to it.

 

I love the meta, succeeded first time, failed second time. 

I agree the head/tail mechanic seems in need of a rework as the second time around we failed because it just kept going back and forth while raining aoe's on us and popping whirlwinds and bubbles. 

Maybe tune up the pre-events as well so there's less total time spent, make it more in the lines of Dragon's Stand meta. Though personally I'm okay with it as it is. 

The mechanics are not that hard. Especially if you've been around for a while and did most of the story. Bonus if you did fractals/raids/strikes. 

The biggest problem I see, and see since the beginning of this game is that communication seems rare. Even with tags up, you have to hope the commander is willing to explain clearly what's expected on the map. There's some stuff that players who don't frequent instanced content might be unfamiliar with. Doesn't make it hard, just new. 
 It's an mmo, lots of shy/quiet people out there. Many times it seems ppl are waiting for someone to take point. And there's always complainers moaning about ppl not understanding mechanics but never taking the time to explain them. Saw it here with the jade maw and main event. All that complaining does it make ppl more nervous and even less willing to speak up to try and get organised. 

Again, with proper communication this event really is not that hard. And you don't always have to win all the time, and to keep trying without changing anything in your approach only serves to aggravate you. This map requires a small amount of organisation, which requires some communication. Explain CC (yes I know some ppl think you shouldn't have to at this point, but that's sadly not the reality). Explain shield mechanics, the whisp mechanic and the dragon crystals and you've got most of it set up. 
 I think many people give up because they don't know what is happening, don't get any explanation, while people are moaning on map chat and it just creates a demotivating environment where people either feel awkward, uncomfortable or frustrated and disappointed. 

 

TL:DR;
Creating a cooperative environment with good communication will solve most of the player-based problems. 

[childeric.6391]

The fact is this event is great in design but it's designed for more people than there's on the maps. That's the realy issue there.

 

When you fail it for the 12th time, and you can't finish your main story because you want to get the map achievement... Which I don't have yet, you are screwed.

 

The fact there's difficult content isn't an issue for me, but you can't have the end of the story being stuck behind such a wall. The last combat of the event is great (when you can reach it, as preparation aren't always full) but it's not balanced out. 

 

And add to that map crashes when you are at 10% of the boss life, and you want to k*** yourself.

 

So yes don't nerf, increase the number of people on the final map for f****** s***... Ah... I forgot... the map will crash if you do so. So then yes, nerf the difficulty to be on par with people actually doing the event...

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

its so amusing to see people malding over OPs correct statement. and it shows none of them played the game during the HOT days.
silverwaste failed for days up to 2 weeks. 
verdant brink also failed around the same time frame,
tarir also 2 weeks of mostly failure.
chack gerenth HA it was even failing long past the HOT launch.
dragon stand: the other dragon meta also taking a freaking hour failed so often its hilarious that you now complain about this last map meta to be SO hard.

you all need to remember that these maps are now on farm status, none of them nerfed at all, adjusted for lacking things perhaps but never out right nerfed. get over yourselves, get better at the game and make other become better too. Dragon's end will be there too in time. also why do you want EoD progress to be over in a week? relax and take it slow. not to mention the turle has ALOT of powercreep for those who are not as good, so its a good thing its not obtained easily. anet may not say it directly but doing THAT they tell you to GIT GUT

[Sardeth Wynn.9548]

I think we should all just relax and wait a bit, they will call it "Scaling Balance" and tweek a bit it.
Yeah, them OP players gonna get mad as some of us are, but the ending factor will be, "How we sell Turtle skins in GEM Store, if no one can get the Turtle"
Again, I love most of the new content and am blown away by how it all looks and feels, the Meta at Jade though....not so much.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

2 minutes ago, childeric.6391 said:

The fact is this event is great in design but it's designed for more people than there's on the maps. That's the realy issue there.

 

When you fail it for the 12th time, and you can't finish your main story because you want to get the map achievement... Which I don't have yet, you are screwed.

 

The fact there's difficult content isn't an issue for me, but you can't have the end of the story being stuck behind such a wall. The last combat of the event is great (when you can reach it, as preparation aren't always full) but it's not balanced out. 

 

And add to that map crashes when you are at 10% of the boss life, and you want to k*** yourself.

 

So yes don't nerf, increase the number of people on the final map for f****** s***... Ah... I forgot... the map will crash if you do so. So then yes, nerf the difficulty to be on par with people actually doing the event...

yeah that is more likely the issue.

[myst.9108]

I am a casual player, and I enjoy Gw2 for it's fun game play. It is THE game for casuals like me. I do not need to join a raid group and work on tactics for hours on end to feel like I am part of a group accomplishing something together.  Whenever I have tried a new meta-event, I have read up on the mechanics and become better over time. Even though I experienced some of these events as quite difficult for me, I always enjoyed them. Even when I was not all that impressed with my own performance 🙂

 

I just tried this for the first time. It took quite some time to  finish the pre-events before  we even meet Soo-Won, and then a long fight that ultimately failed. It was the least fun I have ever had in Gw2. I have read many of the complaints here, and I agree with all of them.

 

 

The visual clutter is extensive. There are so many things going on at once, making it hard to follow.

 

The mechanics seems excessive, to the point that players have a hard time getting to the boss and dps it. I do not think it is a lack of total DPS at this point. Just that it is so difficult to get to the boss in the first place. 

 

The length of it in total is not casual- friendly.

 

The success of it is tied to the turtle mount, which is horribly dissapointing.

 

Great care should be taken in meta events like this, where one really cannot pick your team. You will have players, like me, that just enjoy an event - and have little to none experience in raids. I still expect to be able to join any open world meta-event, where I try my best to be useful. 

 

My 2 cents.

[eyelogix.1654]

5 minutes ago, myst.9108 said:

I am a casual player, and I enjoy Gw2 for it's fun game play. It is THE game for casuals like me. I do not need to join a raid group and work on tactics for hours on end to feel like I am part of a group accomplishing something together.  Whenever I have tried a new meta-event, I have read up on the mechanics and become better over time. Even though I experienced some of these events as quite difficult for me, I always enjoyed them. Even when I was not all that impressed with my own performance 🙂

 

I just tried this for the first time. It took quite some time to  finish the pre-events before  we even meet Soo-Won, and then a long fight that ultimately failed. It was the least fun I have ever had in Gw2. I have read many of the complaints here, and I agree with all of them.

 

 

The visual clutter is extensive. There are so many things going on at once, making it hard to follow.

 

The mechanics seems excessive, to the point that players have a hard time getting to the boss and dps it. I do not think it is a lack of total DPS at this point. Just that it is so difficult to get to the boss in the first place. 

 

The length of it in total is not casual- friendly.

 

The success of it is tied to the turtle mount, which is horribly dissapointing.

 

Great care should be taken in meta events like this, where one really cannot pick your team. You will have players, like me, that just enjoy an event - and have little to none experience in raids. I still expect to be able to join any open world meta-event, where I try my best to be useful. 

 

My 2 cents.

 

The mechanics are not hard to learn. It's just tied to have every alac, speed, and at some point stability up all the time. 
We managed to beat it with 4 minutes left. You would learn it eventually.

I do agree with you about the turtle, and the turtle mount should have been tied to the story instead of the meta.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

4 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

its so amusing to see people malding over OPs correct statement. and it shows none of them played the game during the HOT days.
silverwaste failed for days up to 2 weeks. 
verdant brink also failed around the same time frame,
tarir also 2 weeks of mostly failure.
chack gerenth HA it was even failing long past the HOT launch.
dragon stand: the other dragon meta also taking a freaking hour failed so often its hilarious that you now complain about this last map meta to be SO hard.

you all need to remember that these maps are now on farm status, none of them nerfed at all, adjusted for lacking things perhaps but never out right nerfed. get over yourselves, get better at the game and make other become better too. Dragon's end will be there too in time. also why do you want EoD progress to be over in a week? relax and take it slow. not to mention the turle has ALOT of powercreep for those who are not as good, so its a good thing its not obtained easily. anet may not say it directly but doing THAT they tell you to GIT GUT

They were nerfed though, you may call it "adjustments", but in reality these were simply nerfs.
There are only 2 possible outcomes here:

1. A-net nerfs it, so it won't be dead map for the rest of GW2 existence.
2. A-net doesn't nerf it, so it becomes dead map for the rest of GW2 existence.

That meta isn't hard in the slightest because of the mechanics, it's hard because of RNG of said mechanics. It can have tight timer and still be doable, but if RNGesus says "you fail" then you fail.

[Lottie.5370]

I wouldn't say it needs to be nerfed but it needs to be fixed.

 

• * more consistent CC bars
• * not chaining the same attacks - e.g. not able to go from one side to the other, to the other, to the other (being invuln for like 40 seconds at a time)
• * the whirlpool? it's literally better to let it kill you so you can waypoint and run back, seems kitten

[Johnsen.6253]

Its starting to frustrate me. I wasted so many hours with this event. IT IS FRUSTRATING.

[somsom.5201]

26 minutes ago, Lottie.5370 said:

I wouldn't say it needs to be nerfed but it needs to be fixed.

 

• * more consistent CC bars
• * not chaining the same attacks - e.g. not able to go from one side to the other, to the other, to the other (being invuln for like 40 seconds at a time)
• * the whirlpool? it's literally better to let it kill you so you can waypoint and run back, seems kitten

Yeah a lot of the mechanics just seem better off letting yourself die and waypoint back. The whole thing just seems like an incredibly last minute idea. Even the map itself is meh.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 3/1/2022 at 11:30 PM, Blackari.2051 said:

Please Anet for the love of whatever you worship, do not nerf this fight. Finaly there is a boss fight in open world where just spamming #1 is not enough.
Do not listen to cry babies just because finally they have to somewhat pay attention to what is happening. If you really have to do something maybe add an extra minute on timer to the boss fight but not too much...

Uhm...

First of, I love my characters to be as efficient as possible in a fight as well. But that's me. You can't expect this from casual players.

Now, map meta events are usually something that everyone should be able to participate in. So keeping the meta as is will only lead to casual players vanishing from the map, leaving the event open for raid-level players only.

My suggestion would be to make this whole thing instanced, with a casual-friendly and the current raid meta level version to choose from.

6 hours ago, eyelogix.1654 said:

The RNG has to be nerfed running like a headless chicken back and forth isn't fun especially when you are down to the last 5% when time is of the essence.

That, too. 👍

Edited March 6, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Cloudz.6890]

6 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

silverwaste failed for days up to 2 weeks. 
verdant brink also failed around the same time frame,
tarir also 2 weeks of mostly failure.
chack gerenth HA it was even failing long past the HOT launch.
dragon stand: the other dragon meta also taking a freaking hour failed so often its hilarious that you now complain about this last map meta to be SO hard.

This isn't the point you think you're making. Those maps are several years old and most were nerfed. What kind of design/QA process does Anet have that we're running into difficult, near impossible OW meta events 10 years after launch?

How do you design an entire map around the meta event, require players to put in 2hrs of work just for the final boss to say "Sike! I'm gonna go spam all my damage reduction/immune mechanics back to back". Or "Hope the RNG chose a player for wisps who knows what they're doing. Otherwise have fun sitting on your hands for 75 seconds". OR "Great job beating the meta, take your meh at best rewards. Better hope you got 10 stacks for the buff ;)".

GW2 came out in 2012. At what point do we expect them to have learned from previous meta events? I've already got my turtle. Tell me why there's any reason I should bang my head against the wall to do this again? For a legendary mat that I can get at Dragonstorm?

Edited March 6, 2022 by Cloudz.6890

[Sora.3159]

8 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

its so amusing to see people malding over OPs correct statement. and it shows none of them played the game during the HOT days.
silverwaste failed for days up to 2 weeks. 
verdant brink also failed around the same time frame,
tarir also 2 weeks of mostly failure.
chack gerenth HA it was even failing long past the HOT launch.
dragon stand: the other dragon meta also taking a freaking hour failed so often its hilarious that you now complain about this last map meta to be SO hard.

you all need to remember that these maps are now on farm status, none of them nerfed at all, adjusted for lacking things perhaps but never out right nerfed. get over yourselves, get better at the game and make other become better too. Dragon's end will be there too in time. also why do you want EoD progress to be over in a week? relax and take it slow. not to mention the turle has ALOT of powercreep for those who are not as good, so its a good thing its not obtained easily. anet may not say it directly but doing THAT they tell you to GIT GUT

And those HoT metas ended up being nerfed because they were too much. Even people who were around for HoT release are saying this Dragon's End meta is too much. 

[ruikarikun.9402]

Nerf it to the ground.

[RyuDragnier.9476]

10 hours ago, eyelogix.1654 said:

The RNG has to be nerfed running like a headless chicken back and forth isn't fun especially when you are down to the last 5% when time is of the essence.

This. It's the main issue with the boss fight, and fixing it likely will not only give more clears of the fight, but it may give a more consistant measurement of whether the fight will need still need extra tuning.

Edited March 7, 2022 by RyuDragnier.9476

[Bunny.9834]

Yikes, this thread is the definition of Toxic Elitism.... 🤮

[Johnsen.6253]

After wasting 7 hours of my sunday doing this event again and again, my frustration turned into ANGRYNESS. Im angry.... Im really ANGRY. FIX it!

 

[Xerxez.7361]

It would be nice to know if the mechanics are actually tied to rng or if they are tied to other mechanics like failing to save your friends from Bubbles/Whirlpools or caused by players actually being hit by those mechanics.

[ruikarikun.9402]

1 hour ago, Johnsen.6253 said:

After wasting 7 hours of my sunday doing this event again and again, my frustration turned into ANGRYNESS. Im angry.... Im really ANGRY. FIX it!

 

Relax man, do you see what they saying? Git gud (sarcasm)

[Sirius.4510]

Despite the drawbacks of... how this wound up, it's been quite the epic experience, and I'm glad I was able to beat it once "pre-nerf" (if one is coming, anyway). I might just be more patient than most folks, but given how much is stacked against us I was expecting it to require a lot of perseverance. And that first "win" is pretty satisfying if you can finally get it.

That said, I do recognize the current state is unsustainable and leads to many things that are detrimental to the game's health (gatekeeping, toxicity, etc). While I don't think it's as difficult as it seems - remember what Triple Trouble used to be like? - the fact that it's tied to the Siege Turtle which everyone wants is a problem - it means people are not there for the challenge, they just want the reward, and that's a recipe for frustration with something like this. Something will have to change.

 

Seeing some of the more positive response from the community has been great though. In most of the attempts I've made (it took 7 to beat it), people banded together, organized into squads, made sure they had boon coverage, dropped down waystations for days, even jumped onto Discord etc. Yeah, the game kinda forced it, but folks have impressed me over this past week!

To the commanders who patiently walked new people through the battle, made sure everyone was prepared, and generally herded cats - thank you!

And to all the players who have stepped up, often outside of their comfort zone, and done their best for the squad - you're awesome! I hope you get your reward!

I expect the battle to get easier in future but I will still remember the trials and tribulations of the first week with some measure of fondness 🙂

[MokahTGS.7850]

This is hilarious that people think this meta design is okay for open world.  One person not completing a jumping puzzle wipes everyone?  Is that true?  

Here's WPs take on it, and if what he's saying is true, this meta is ridiculous. 

 

[Kalocin.5982]

FFXIV has harder raid content and is more accommodating to all levels of difficulty and accessibility. A lot of people like the tuning, and a lot don't. Seems easy enough to make an option for both. Otherwise you'll make someone mad either way. 

 

That being said I'm done commanding for randos. I'm not wasting my time anymore. I have no desire to play in this toxic environment. Bye.

[SolarDragon.7063]

This meta is ridiculous in how inconsistent the arrangement of boss skills are, and how much that affects the difficulty.
Having done the meta with an organised group, and seen it struggle more than half my other runs because it had so much worse RNG-this is the problem.

Also, please consider your relative level of experience to most people, and possibly the level of organisation and contacts on top. Map metas are open world content that should not require absolute perfection to do. Map metas are not the place for your top tier endgame challenge. Difficulty is fine, but it has to be reasonable relative to the group that is expected to do them. Ignoring that does not serve the game as a whole appropriately.

[Artemis.8034]

On 3/5/2022 at 4:08 AM, DylanLucas.6058 said:

If A-net doesn't change this meta, the casuals will eventually fall off and it's the caual community that the biggest in this game.

 

We also know what happens to "hardcore" games....... they die very soon.

 

 

 

Oh yeah look at wildstar. Casuals run the game world, you may see hardcore players speak the loudest through twitch and youtube, but its the casuals that pay the bills by sheer numbers