EoD a flop?

[lezbefriends.7516]

So according to the news, EoD was such a success that we're getting another expansion, LW1, a completely new living world, Steam launch and balance patches. This is exactly what we were getting a year ago.

 

In other words, they spun the reality that EoD didn't have much of an impact into "EoD was a resounding success." Bravo!

 

 

[erapago.4387]

That's some pretty selective reading. You miss the part about it outselling Path of Fire and and the active population doubling in the last three years?

[lezbefriends.7516]

Just now, erapago.4387 said:

That's some pretty selective reading. You miss the part about it outselling Path of Fire and and the active population doubling in the last three years?

WoW outsells its former expansions. Is it more alive than before? You're just falling for marketing and devspeak.

[erapago.4387]

9 minutes ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

WoW outsells its former expansions. Is it more alive than before? You're just falling for marketing and devspeak.

Incorrect. WoW's population likely peaked 14 years ago with Wrath of the Lich King. They then stopped reporting numbers after years of decline.

 

No idea what you're falling for but it isn't reality.

Edited March 23, 2022 by erapago.4387
wow, I'm old

[lezbefriends.7516]

1 minute ago, erapago.4387 said:

Incorrect. WoW's population likely peaked 12 years ago with Wrath of the Lich King. They then stopped reporting numbers after years of decline.

 

No idea what you're falling for but it isn't reality.

So you agree with me.

 

Shadowlands sold more than Wrath and everything else. That's fact. But we all know WoW is declining.

Which is to say that they can reveal whichever stats they choose to make it look like the game is doing better than ever before.

[Mortime.1359]

The steam launch will be interesting because that will actually give us access to steam user database. And even tho it will not show the complete GW2 playerbase it will show a part of it and any increase/decline in it will give us an idea of what is going on with it.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Mortime.1359

[Tatwi.3562]

From the perspectives of

1.  Existing game play systems that were used in Core/HoT/PoF/LW Maps, but not at all in EoD. No mount races, no adventures of any kind, no updrafts, etc.
2. Geometry and texture problems in all 4 EoD maps, making it obvious that they were either rushed or made by less experienced/motivated employees than all the previous maps.

alone it's obvious that the same level of quality and attention to detail put into Core/HoT/PoF/LW absolutely was NOT put into EoD. They can yell it at us until they're blue in the face, but it only takes a single play through of the maps and stories to plainly see that EoD is not up to the same quality standards as the content prior to Champions.

I am sure the people who worked on EoD did the best they could, but they're clearly not the same people who made the rest of the game. That's fine, but it would be appropriate if ArenaNet would, at the very least, teach their new employees how to create new content using the older systems. As is often the case in the software industry, this may well require bringing back the people who designed and/or last used these systems, because there simply isn't any documentation for these systems, hence why no one is left at the company who knows how to use them. This happens all the time in the software industry.

 

Is EoD a flop? Not on the whole, no, but it's definitely less entertainment dense then either LW season 3 or 4. The maps are super boring the first play through and, well, apart from grinding XP that's all the play through I am compelled to do; I have so much more fun in so many other parts of the game!

Edited March 23, 2022 by Tatwi.3562

[DanAlcedo.3281]

49 minutes ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

WoW outsells its former expansions. Is it more alive than before? You're just falling for marketing and devspeak.

We got a Doooooooomer over here! 

 

[Healix.5819]

51 minutes ago, erapago.4387 said:

You miss the part about it outselling Path of Fire and and the active population doubling in the last three years?

Keep in mind that means PoF+ was doing well, not that EoD was a success. That won't be known (publicly) for a few months.

[DarcShriek.5829]

Once again the sky is falling and I forgot my umbrella.  Why does this always happen to me?  It seems like every time the sky falls and GW2 dies I never have my stupid umbrella.  Could someone please let me know in advance the next time the sky falls, I'm getting tired of getting wet.

[Tukaram.8256]

10 minutes ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

Once again the sky is falling and I forgot my umbrella.  Why does this always happen to me?  It seems like every time the sky falls and GW2 dies I never have my stupid umbrella.  Could someone please let me know in advance the next time the sky falls, I'm getting tired of getting wet.

Yeah, GW was dying all the time, and now GW2 is dying - again.  Bummer...  ha ha 😎

[Hypnowulf.7403]

It doesn't really explain the analytics that show not many people even have the first achievement of End of Dragons, nor does it explain the sheer emptiness of the zones. If this was going well, there'd be lots of people doing the biggest metas just as there were with previous expansions.

I'd like you to take a look at Dragon's End and tell me how many players are there, currently. You can go and look, I'll wait. From everything I've read, all of the metas are dead. It isn't just Dragon's End, it's just... everything. The people who're still playing took their turtle, their skiff, and got out. They're playing other content if they're still playing at all.

That strike to the overall faith of the playerbase isn't going to do well when the next expansion rolls around. The Icebrood Saga was of poor quality due to being rushed, End of Dragons was of poor quality due to being rushed. Who's to say the next thing won't also be? Or the one after that?

That's if there even is one, because according to what I've heard, the financial success of ArenaNet wasn't taking into account the strength of the won at the time, but even if you forget to take that into account it still performed incredibly poorly against every other existing IP that NCSoft has.

Riddle me this, friends: Lineage III—now known as Throne and Liberty—will be out soon. At that point, Guild Wars 2 will seem like a money sink to NCSoft as ArenaNet is just not performing nearly as well as they want. And what happens to titles that don't perform as well as they want? May I direct your attention to City of Heroes and WildStar?

If you really think that the poor quality of End of Dragons is going to save ArenaNet, well... I'll let you keep thinking that, but you're only hurting yourself.

[Mortime.1359]

23 minutes ago, Hypnowulf.7403 said:

May I direct your attention to City of Heroes and WildStar?

Yeah, I think city of heroes was also doing well. At least well enough that the developers were right in the middle of making a new update when ncsoft pulled the carpet out from under their feet and shut the studio and the game down.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Mortime.1359

[ugrakarma.9416]

If its a flop, why they are clearly investing more resources instead of closing the game?

 

But i think they just take too serious what is really, was a joke about the name EoD sound "end of the game".

[ugrakarma.9416]

43 minutes ago, Hypnowulf.7403 said:

I'd like you to take a look at Dragon's End and tell me how many players are there, currently. You can go and look, I'll wait. From everything I've read, all of the metas are dead. It isn't just Dragon's End, it's just... everything. The people who're still playing took their turtle, their skiff, and got out. They're playing other content if they're still playing at all.

I command meta trains here in cantha(3 maps - 4 metas..  - except DE). and always fill squad, the most common complaint is that map is full. Seitung meta have in average 6 ~10 squads.

The guild im part of it (REQ - Requiem) is specialized in DE, and in weekends they fill 2 squads with just guild members. 1 squad in the week.

The maps aren't empty, theyre just too big, and map max cap's seems have issues, the maps are soft-caped  too fast, which is a bad combo, they easily feel empty because their size is no joke.. hell, each map have 40+ POI's.

When i jump on core maps to do dailies or older achievments, i always see ppl fishing.

Perhaps u play in a bad timezone.

Edited March 23, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[Freya.9075]

Oh no we’re all doomed 😩 I’m sure that’s why i see so many lfg in cantha and struggle to get in the 3 different meta maps that are full. It all makes sense now

eod needs some work still. But it’s far from a flop. Anet proves that with their news post since they will improve gameplay in several ways and even confirmed the forth expansion. If it flopped, they would not do that. Anet is doing better when it comes to communication and gw2 is doing good 

[ugrakarma.9416]

2 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

Oh no we’re all doomed 😩 I’m sure that’s why i see so many lfg in cantha and struggle to get in the 3 different meta maps that are full. It all makes sense now

eod needs some work still. But it’s far from a flop. Anet proves that with their news post since they will improve gameplay in several ways and even confirmed the forth expansion. If it flopped, they would not do that. Anet is doing better when it comes to communication and gw2 is doing good 

also extra stuff like LS1 is a good signal that they have more resources now to re-invest in pararel GW2 stuff, instead of just xpac/living world.

Edited March 23, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[Peterson.5172]

  

2 hours ago, Hypnowulf.7403 said:

It doesn't really explain the analytics that show not many people even have the first achievement of End of Dragons, nor does it explain the sheer emptiness of the zones. If this was going well, there'd be lots of people doing the biggest metas just as there were with previous expansions.

by analytics i assume you mean gw2efficiency, which keeps pretty much all the APIs it gets regardless of age/activity, even then, 90k/300k isn't bad, if you apply that to the entire game population... and it's very hard for players to judge how popular metas are, they often fill up quikly + disappear, those that dont tend to have full maps past 10 seconds of going on lfg.

metas could be less active now but theres no way for players to judge with any accuracy.

  

2 hours ago, Hypnowulf.7403 said:

Riddle me this, friends: Lineage III—now known as Throne and Liberty—will be out soon. At that point, Guild Wars 2 will seem like a money sink to NCSoft as ArenaNet is just not performing nearly as well as they want. And what happens to titles that don't perform as well as they want? May I direct your attention to City of Heroes and WildStar?

If you really think that the poor quality of End of Dragons is going to save ArenaNet, well... I'll let you keep thinking that, but you're only hurting yourself.

never played any of the lineage games myself

and gw2 is nowhere near the state of wildstar or w.e city of heroes is... i dont see how thats a comparison

i agree EoD couldve be better polished on release, but between this and next expansion, they've got years of LW they can polish with.

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Hypnowulf.7403 said:

It doesn't really explain the analytics that show not many people even have the first achievement of End of Dragons, nor does it explain the sheer emptiness of the zones. If this was going well, there'd be lots of people doing the biggest metas just as there were with previous expansions.

Actually, following other achievements and completion on gw2efficiency, 28% completion rate of all registered accounts there is rather high. Not only that, but completion rate remains as high as 16% all the way through act 5, which is indicative of actual players playing the story and content.

 

The new maps are larger than many if not all of the old maps. Larger maps, reduced player caps per maps and maps will seem emptier.

2 hours ago, Hypnowulf.7403 said:

I'd like you to take a look at Dragon's End and tell me how many players are there, currently. You can go and look, I'll wait. From everything I've read, all of the metas are dead. It isn't just Dragon's End, it's just... everything. The people who're still playing took their turtle, their skiff, and got out. They're playing other content if they're still playing at all.

From everything you have read? So basically you are clueless.

 

Metas are fine and each map sees multiple meta maps in LFG at nearly all time of day. Even DE has multiple instances per 2 hour cycle up.

 

Almost every player I have in any of my guilds or friends list, which are into PvE, are in EoD. For weeks now.

2 hours ago, Hypnowulf.7403 said:

That strike to the overall faith of the playerbase isn't going to do well when the next expansion rolls around. The Icebrood Saga was of poor quality due to being rushed, End of Dragons was of poor quality due to being rushed. Who's to say the next thing won't also be? Or the one after that?

and yet all I've heard is players praising EoD and claiming it is the best expansion so far when taking everything into account. It's not the best in all areas, but cumulative it has hit the mark the most.

 

HoT had a rushed story and bad meta reward design (and required months of reworks). PoF had terrible map and meta design (which again required a reward rework). It's interesting to see how selective and forgetful player memory is.

 

2 hours ago, Hypnowulf.7403 said:

That's if there even is one, because according to what I've heard, the financial success of ArenaNet wasn't taking into account the strength of the won at the time, but even if you forget to take that into account it still performed incredibly poorly against every other existing IP that NCSoft has.

Is this similar to what you've read in the other parts of your reply?

 

GW2 is tagging behind most other NCSoft IPs in terms of revenue. GW2 is also their only successful IP in the west.

 

NCSoft West got a cash infusion of 112 million dollars in 2019 and it is reasonable to assume a large chunk of that went into existing IPs or ones that are being worked on at the time.

2 hours ago, Hypnowulf.7403 said:

Riddle me this, friends: Lineage III—now known as Throne and Liberty—will be out soon. At that point, Guild Wars 2 will seem like a money sink to NCSoft as ArenaNet is just not performing nearly as well as they want. And what happens to titles that don't perform as well as they want? May I direct your attention to City of Heroes and WildStar?

Ah yes, the good old:"this new MMO will kill this old MMO" argument. Which ones have we heard over the years? BDO, Blade and Soul, Camelot Unchained (hasn't even released yet), Elder Scrolls and most recently New World. Some of these are even NCSoft published/owned.

 

Riddle me this: how successful have the Lineage titles been in the west so far? While at it, do some reading on how long L3 has been in development and how many reworks and missed release dates that game has had so far. Always a great sign for a quality MMO. /s

2 hours ago, Hypnowulf.7403 said:

If you really think that the poor quality of End of Dragons is going to save ArenaNet, well... I'll let you keep thinking that, but you're only hurting yourself.

 

Being critical is fine. Being critical with this weak arguments is just cliche.

[Pyriel.4370]

EoD isn’t a flop. There were some sketchy design choices re features but overall was pretty polished. Consider the difference to a normal modern release where most games are released barely in a state for beta. It’s a solid B+ as far as xpacs for MMOs go. 
 

I also reckon they can turn it round in terms of the failings. It’s not like it’s all bad either. The music is great, the story is good, the elite specs are getting work done, the maps are pretty cool and the new system for veterans / elites not being brain dead is pretty neat too. Fishing is nice too. Weirdly addictive and based on the low prices for fish fillets on the AH, a few others are doing a lot of it too. The turtle mount needs work to be relevant and skiffs are just fishing platforms currently (though I wouldn’t say no to a skiff race championship similar to beetle racing).

Living world season 1 isn’t even that bad, people have been vocal about it for aaaaaaages. It’s also a great chance for new players to see the scarlet wars in nice chunks with potentially nice rewards (and a chance at the back pieces). 

For those comparing to wow. It cost $29.99 for EoD and $39.99 for Shadowlands with a sub, and if you are or were a wow player, you know the dumpster fire that shadowlands is after the dumpster fire of BFA and how this next expac is make or break for wow for so many reasons. Anet are not remotely in the same position. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Pyriel.4370
Clarity

[Mungo Zen.9364]

I’d expect future releases from Anet to be as rushed, buggy and poorly implemented the same as IBS and EoD have been. 
 

Y’all may have enjoyed EoD and I also enjoyed parts of it too. But overall there have been enough issues (many still unresolved) with this release that I have basically stopped playing.  
 

I don’t have free time to be wasted, roadblocked by game issues that should never have gone live. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Mungo Zen.9364
Spells

[Malus.2184]

6 hours ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

So according to the news, EoD was such a success that we're getting another expansion, LW1, a completely new living world, Steam launch and balance patches. This is exactly what we were getting a year ago.

 

In other words, they spun the reality that EoD didn't have much of an impact into "EoD was a resounding success." Bravo!

 

 

Yes, because we all know that in a Capitalistic market economy products are constantly made if there's no market for them -_-

[lezbefriends.7516]

Just now, Malus.2184 said:

Yes, because we all know that in a Capitalistic market economy products are constantly made if there's no market for them -_-

Does capitalistic market economy forbid the use of proper punctuation?

[aspirine.6852]

I have not played on the opening weeks of the previous expansions so I have no idea how those went. But I would have thought if this was succesful that I would see/meet more players in the maps. On release day I was confused of how many people were in Seitung with me, but that could have been a bug.

I would love to see that it is/was a succes though. With all its flaws and weirdness there is no other game for me that comes close.

[scarlettmoonbabe.6932]

https://mmo-population.com/
as i post this guild wars 2 is ranked at 7th most played mmo right now. they are making a ton of cash. can't wait to see it at top 5.

however i found EoD very low impact to the game overall and very disappointed in the new elite specs (besides harbinger). i expect the following living season will make Cantha and the new features it brought feel more full, and the balance patch in summer will at least attempt to make the new elite specs more viable in harder content and pvp/wvw. i've spent most of my time in sei tung, it's just too pretty. not a big fan of the other maps though. i'm glad they are something different though and they add flavor. my biggest gripe map-wise is probably all the jade tech cluttering echovald. functionally it's gotta be there i guess but aesthetically it's a turn off for me. i really hope arena gives this game the polish it desperately needs to make the new player experience as welcoming as possible. when i first started a couple months ago i found a lot of the systems and UI very confusing, dated, and not user friendly. Also I felt cheated when i found out the living season content wasn't part of the expansions i had just bought at the time, and i know many others who felt that way too. i wouldnt have minded if the game/website was more intuitive about communicating these things, instead of them just being in some obscure area in the cash shop (back before i understood much of the game). 

i'm honestly just hype arena net finally gave us their gameplan instead of just going ghost like i've heard they had a tendency to do in the past

Edited March 23, 2022 by scarlettmoonbabe.6932