I feel excluded from EoD because Soo Won meta event is too hard

[MonsterTeddy.6135]

6 hours ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

I wonder if maybe Soo Won's consistently inconsistent frenzied fight or flight reaction is not as random as it seems. Maybe there's something we're doing that triggers it. Like, I dunno, some specific type of CC or damage that, like, tickles. Or something.

Be funny if doing too much damage too quickly caused it.

On the contrary, it's the opposite

The boss fight pretty much punishes lower dps groups as it opens up more situations for RNG to screw them over.

With high dps groups, the boss HP goes down fast enough to skip a lot of mechanics (assuming she stays in place for a dps window). 

Imo, it's a pretty crappy design since it's basically telling players to skip mechanics through dps instead of going through them.

You can have a comm and squad that's reactive enough to get through the fight mechanics, clear CC bars, catch the tail, but still fail coz of insufficient dps IN ADDITION to the amount of opportunity for the boss to enter invulnerability/untargetable phases, all on a tight timer.

[medivh.4725]

Somehow it feels the meta is getting more difficult. You would have expected with so many practise runs, devs tweaks, this gets easlier. Oh boy was I wrong.

Edited April 8, 2022 by medivh.4725

[Vayne.8563]

33 minutes ago, medivh.4725 said:

Somehow it feels the meta is getting more difficult. You would have expected with so many practise runs, devs tweaks, this gets easlier. Oh boy was I wrong.

This happens a lot, but it's not always tweaks causing it. Back during the original Marionette fight, it was hard for some people. The guys who were good got in and did it right away and got their achievements and they were gone. The second wave of guys that had to work up to it that were more casual simply weren't as good.  We went from beating it almost all the time to losing it almost a third of the time.   And it wasn't that hard. It was just a case of less experienced players that took longer to get to it jumping in finally to try it.

[Donari.5237]

21 hours ago, Minjin.8259 said:

You have the right attitude!  I just did the meta with a commander that spent 8 minutes after it was over telling us how disappointed he was and how annoyed he was, and that we were the worst group he ever had.  But here is the thing, he told us that after we beat it with a couple minutes to spare, and he was serious!  🤦‍♀️

My word, really?  I am ever more grateful for Ralka's commanding.  She expresses love and joy for us all, works to be super inclusive, has giveaways when we are fully pre-made, and thanks us sincerely and repeatedly for joining.  When everyone successfully jumps a wave she is ebullient, when some get downed she says "pick up your friends" (and has briefed us before the fight that dps does the picking up, healers keep on healing).  Super organized without any elitism, nastiness, or dictator behavior, and with competent lieutenants leading the escort she's not on.  You guys need to find her and her Discord.  She really wants the secrets to success to spread through the whole community.

[Dante.1508]

So many pages 😵 Just fix it already...

Spoiler

Please!

 

[Vayne.8563]

45 minutes ago, Donari.5237 said:

My word, really?  I am ever more grateful for Ralka's commanding.  She expresses love and joy for us all, works to be super inclusive, has giveaways when we are fully pre-made, and thanks us sincerely and repeatedly for joining.  When everyone successfully jumps a wave she is ebullient, when some get downed she says "pick up your friends" (and has briefed us before the fight that dps does the picking up, healers keep on healing).  Super organized without any elitism, nastiness, or dictator behavior, and with competent lieutenants leading the escort she's not on.  You guys need to find her and her Discord.  She really wants the secrets to success to spread through the whole community.

I run with Ralka too.  She's in my guild (among others).  I have to say, her runs are not only the reason I got it done, but her personally taking the time out to help me set up a build that would help that was easy for my sore arthritic shoulders had be come back a number of times just to help out after I did beat it.

 

I've beaten the meta about 75% of the times I've tried it, and most of those wins were with Ralka.

[Tachenon.5270]

6 hours ago, MonsterTeddy.6135 said:

On the contrary, it's the opposite

The boss fight pretty much punishes lower dps groups as it opens up more situations for RNG to screw them over.

With high dps groups, the boss HP goes down fast enough to skip a lot of mechanics (assuming she stays in place for a dps window). 

Imo, it's a pretty crappy design since it's basically telling players to skip mechanics through dps instead of going through them.

You can have a comm and squad that's reactive enough to get through the fight mechanics, clear CC bars, catch the tail, but still fail coz of insufficient dps IN ADDITION to the amount of opportunity for the boss to enter invulnerability/untargetable phases, all on a tight timer.

Okay, I think I've got it figured out.

Odd groups got left, even groups got right. That's 1, 3, 5, 7 left, 2, 4, 6, 8 right. 7 and 8 are bubble groups. And watch the tail! After the CC you can start doing damage to it. Nuke it, DOT it. Help the bubble groups. Nuke it hard as possible. You want to get it down fast as possible. Have CCs up on every time. Come on, more DPS. Hit it like you mean it. At 40% stop CCs. Until then you will throw more CCs. Okay, stop CCs. Now hit it very hard. And very fast. Everybody run to the center. Whatever you do don't stand next to other people. Okay, DPS slowly. Watch the tail!

If you've done it just right, success! Start looting the chests. If not...

Bubbles, left side. Even side many bubbles. That's a 50 DKP minus!

[Urud.4925]

I find the whole concept "let's raise the bar and teach players how to improve their skills" wrong, coming from ArenaNet.

I completed the meta several times, and I never joined a group with KP check, so the difficult is fine for me. But the thing that makes GW2 different from other MMORPGs, is the fact that people can play it casually, without joining a group.

It's fine to add challenging and non-mandatory instances, but open world events should be enjoyable for everyone, especially if they are part of the main story. If ANet tries to force people to "git gut", following the requests of few and voicing players, they will risk to lose a bigger chunk of the player-base that plays this particular game for a reason.

 

HoT metas are still loved by many players. imo because they were easy to understand, polished, and slightly harder than normal events, but still manageable by casual players that didn't know "their rotation". You can jump-in an Auric Basin or Mouth of Mordremoth, have fun with other players, feel part of the assault, without feeling the pressure on you.

 

Dragon's end tries to copy Dragon's Stand (from the beginning, where you need 5 players to start the lane), but it's very different. There are no important mechanics along the lanes, you just have to hit harder (and be "forced" to use the buffs on the map. Not difficult sure, just an useless nuisance to remember). The main fight is a cluttered mess of visual effects, where you run from a point to another one, barely understanding what's going on. You play with other players, but it's not "fun". Dragon's Stand is easy and yet epic (maybe due to the soundtrack). Dragon's end is just a mess you want to complete as fast as possible.

No one cares about the other players around, no one tries to revive them or save them from the whirlpools. They can easily respawn on the ship. There is no feeling of a coordinated epic assault. It feels... hollow.

 

Echovald's meta is also bad imo: many players can't see the dark green things/consoles/rocks where you have to take a cover, when they spawn. They blend with the ground, too similar colour and too many flashy effects from player's skills. And when they see the white mark on the ground, is already too late. This will lead to people being toxic/sarcastic, even during a relatively easy meta. It's challenging when you die and you understand why, but when you die and don't see why, it's just annoying.

 

I'm not against challenging fights. But they should be instanced (Mordremoth CM is awesome for example). Open world metas ought to have mechanics that require people's cooperation, easy to understand, with a clean layout and playable by the typical GW2's casual player-base.

There are people that simply don't want to learn to play their class better, you can't force them. They'll rather stop playing that content. But ArenaNet has more data than us, so I'm sure they'll see whether this new contents are appealing or not, after we all get our achievements done.

Sorry for the wall of text.

[Minjin.8259]

5 hours ago, Donari.5237 said:

My word, really?  I am ever more grateful for Ralka's commanding.  She expresses love and joy for us all, works to be super inclusive, has giveaways when we are fully pre-made, and thanks us sincerely and repeatedly for joining.  When everyone successfully jumps a wave she is ebullient, when some get downed she says "pick up your friends" (and has briefed us before the fight that dps does the picking up, healers keep on healing).  Super organized without any elitism, nastiness, or dictator behavior, and with competent lieutenants leading the escort she's not on.  You guys need to find her and her Discord.  She really wants the secrets to success to spread through the whole community.

I've done most of my runs with her too, she is awesome.  I guess that's why I was so shocked by this incident.

[medivh.4725]

People will talk about dps. In my almost 10 tries. I would say the key is overall time management.

Why? I have seen groups putting out from decent to good dps but due to too much time wasted in the early portions or phrases of meta. There simply isn't enough time left slaying soonwon. 

So at least for me, for this fight time management is absolute key. Put it this way if enough time even a lacklustre dps is sometimes enough to slaying soonwon.

Also, try to get people on voice. Helps a tonne especially to newbies and casuals. Having an audio cue will help in every way. 

[Silent.6137]

13 hours ago, Urud.4925 said:

I completed the meta several times, and I never joined a group with KP check, so the difficult is fine for me. But the thing that makes GW2 different from other MMORPGs, is the fact that people can play it casually, without joining a group.

I've been doing the meta on a daily basis, to farm the Antique Summoning Stones. I just join squads that list on LFG early. Why? Mainly because I know I won't be wasting 1 hour+ on a failed meta. Those who join those groups will have the added buffs. For the last 20 attempts, only 1 loss.

Aside from the fact that people joined a squad, it is still very casual. Although, most commanders will try to make proper subgroup mixes, everyone will still play and do  things no differently than if they are not in a squad. The only difference is they have a direction, instead of running around aimlessly.

Only 1 commander that I know of asked for "Gamer's Proof", which imo, is rather silly. Although to be fair, he doesn't demand or will kick. It is more for placing players to maximize the winning chances.

It is not necessary to be in a squad to win, since a squad can only have 50. At any meta, there will always be quite a few not in a squad.

My suggestion: Join a squad early. It will take a little longer than just going for the escorts and boss fights but you'll save yourself lots of frustrations, and also lots of time from having to repeat the meta over and over again. An extra 15 to 30 minutes to save countless hours wasted.

[Exciton.8942]

22 hours ago, MonsterTeddy.6135 said:

On the contrary, it's the opposite

The boss fight pretty much punishes lower dps groups as it opens up more situations for RNG to screw them over.

With high dps groups, the boss HP goes down fast enough to skip a lot of mechanics (assuming she stays in place for a dps window). 

Imo, it's a pretty crappy design since it's basically telling players to skip mechanics through dps instead of going through them.

You can have a comm and squad that's reactive enough to get through the fight mechanics, clear CC bars, catch the tail, but still fail coz of insufficient dps IN ADDITION to the amount of opportunity for the boss to enter invulnerability/untargetable phases, all on a tight timer.

That is pretty much the same as raids. Do enough dps so you can skip mechanics.

[Robert.7820]

A little late to the party, but just started running this META yesterday. Did my third one tonight. All three were organized with commanders and overall seemed to have a good sense of what to do. We lost all three. 

 

I don't know that the problem is mechanics, but rather it's too much going on for an open world event. By the time Soo Wan is down 50%, I don't know how anyone knows what is going on, on the fighting platform. It's so chaotic and the game engine struggles. This last run I turned the graphics down, but then I wasn't seeing a good portion of the telegraphs on the ground so I had the most deaths on this third run. It was still not smooth gameplay either.

Ya gotta work within the limits of the game engine. Mechanics? Fine, but we as players have to actually be able to see what is going on, what is happening, what needs attacked/dodged/etc. 

 

Hoping for further improvements soon.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Robert.7820
typo

[Xerxez.7361]

1 hour ago, Robert.7820 said:

A little late to the party, but just started running this META yesterday. Did my third one tonight. All three were organized with commanders and overall seemed to have a good sense of what to do. We lost all three. 

 

I don't know that the problem is mechanics, but rather it's too much going on for an open world even. By the time Soo Wan is down 50%, I don't know how anyone knows what is going on, on the fighting platform. It's so chaotic and the game engine struggles. This last run I turned the graphics down, but then I wasn't seeing a good portion of the telegraphs on the ground so I had the most deaths on this third run. It was still not smooth gameplay either.

Ya gotta work within the limits of the game engine. Mechanics? Fine, but we as players have to actually be able to see what is going on, what is happening, what needs attacked/dodged/etc. 

 

Hoping for further improvements soon.

 

 

 

 

 

I have my graphics at lowest and I still see all the Telegraphs.

Slam - Red AoE with Patterns on the edges

Acid - Red Circles ( Thornhearts will throw down the same Red Circles, but the Acid will leave a Black Haze)

Bite- Half the Arena is Red

Tail Slam - Half the Arena is Red, but Away from Soo Won's Face.

Wave Attack - Half the Arena is Red.

[Silent.6137]

The only AoEs you really have to be aware of are the orange-red AoEs, both the circle/patterns, the semi-circle and the ones that cover 1/2 the arena. Red circles, not so much. Run/dodge out of them. Dodge/jump over circular waves. Focussing on too much, will just leave you confused.

If you don't know what to do, just stay close to tags. They run, you run. The change in phases occurs at 80, 60, 40, & 20%. A half-decent commander will tell you which lanes you need to go to and which sides you should go to for splits. Pay attention to NPC. They'll tell you what to look for. Also, pay attention to mapchats. CC when someone calls it. Attack tail if comm says tail. Stay, if comm say stay. Recharge EMP after every phase.

The meta is not overly complicated. It just need a little more coordinations than most others, which is what makes it more fun and interesting, imo....assuming we win. 😄

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Silent.6137

[MonsterTeddy.6135]

7 hours ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

 

I have my graphics at lowest and I still see all the Telegraphs.

Slam - Red AoE with Patterns on the edges

Acid - Red Circles ( Thornhearts will throw down the same Red Circles, but the Acid will leave a Black Haze)

Bite- Half the Arena is Red

Tail Slam - Half the Arena is Red, but Away from Soo Won's Face.

Wave Attack - Half the Arena is Red.

I have my graphics set to lowest as well.

Although I can see the telegraphs most of the time, there are times where the highlighted area of effect doesn't show up. So far, I've only noticed it going missing during the slam and that attack where the boss swings in front of her. As a regular comm, I've learned to pay attention to her model animations as well since the aoe and dialogue aren't always reliable (overlapping dialogue, missing aoe circles, etc), but I can understand why other ppl can't keep up if those telegraphs don't show up for them.

Also, the small aoe circles that appear before the ppl get caught in whirlpools are often easily missed among the mob clutter, especially if Thornhearts are up. >~>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ultramex.1506]

Close to killing her but everyone were being indecisive whether to go for tail or not, in the end everyone ignored tail and power through which ended in failure

So i don't think Anet need to fix anymore, it's the players that should fix themself instead

Edited April 10, 2022 by Ultramex.1506

[Alcatraznc.3869]

For those who are still failing DE, I suggest you join Hardstruck discord. Their commander arent afraid of explaining the strat to new player and manage group. However it is recommended you bring meta build though you wont be kicked for not bringing the good build.

 

I promote them because I had no issue with them and my success rate so far is 100% with them but if other people know guild willing to do the same, feel free to share. 

[Xerxez.7361]

6 hours ago, MonsterTeddy.6135 said:

I have my graphics set to lowest as well.

Although I can see the telegraphs most of the time, there are times where the highlighted area of effect doesn't show up. So far, I've only noticed it going missing during the slam and that attack where the boss swings in front of her. As a regular comm, I've learned to pay attention to her model animations as well since the aoe and dialogue aren't always reliable (overlapping dialogue, missing aoe circles, etc), but I can understand why other ppl can't keep up if those telegraphs don't show up for them.

Also, the small aoe circles that appear before the ppl get caught in whirlpools are often easily missed among the mob clutter, especially if Thornhearts are up. >~>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Purple Indicator above your head is better to pay attention to, but as long as your in the middle of the group when it goes off your fairly safe.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Xerxez.7361

[Silent.6137]

Noticed 2 squads at different times yesterday demanding raid KP or Raid legendary pings, or will be kicked. That was absolutely hilarious. Thought of joining them but...nah, don't like elitist comms.  One squad that happened to be on the map I was on, was razzed mercilessly by the whole map. Think the comm moved to another map pretty fast.

The squad I joined with zero requirements won. Wonder how those squads did. Would be funny if they fail. You may have all the gears but still fail if most of them have no clue on what to do.. Especially if they all assumed just by showing up is more than enough.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Silent.6137

[ATMAvatar.5749]

17 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

I just join squads that list on LFG early. Why? Mainly because I know I won't be wasting 1 hour+ on a failed meta. Those who join those groups will have the added buffs. For the last 20 attempts, only 1 loss.

I've had an inverted experience.  Despite joining LFG 30-60 minutes before the meta starts, I think I've had 1-2 wins out of roughly 15-20 attempts, and of those failures, only a few were even within a single-digit percent left on Soo Won.

• In nearly every attempt, I see 1/3 or more of the squad downed to every slam attack.
• In every other attempt, more than half the break bars are left unbroken.
• In 1/3 to 1/2 of the attempts, the RNG gods conspire against us as well, getting overly frequent bites, swaps, and overlapping tail+CC phases.
• In a handful of attempts, the groups couldn't even figure out champs needed to be downed at the same time.

Alas, these are group problems, and not for lack of one or more people explaining the fight beforehand.  While I'm far from perfect, I don't personally have any trouble with the mechanics. There's little I can do to affect others, though, so I feel pretty helpless.

 

Sadly, given the time expenditure and win rate I've seen, the meta would literally need to drop precursors to even be worth my time.  I've given up for now, hoping the RNG is fixed/improved, the time investment is reduced, people learn to do better, or some combination thereof.  It's too bad, as I do actually kinda like the fight.

Edited April 9, 2022 by ATMAvatar.5749

[Necrosian.1359]

1 hour ago, ATMAvatar.5749 said:

I've had an inverted experience.  Despite joining LFG 30-60 minutes before the meta starts, I think I've had 1-2 wins out of roughly 15-20 attempts, and of those failures, only a few were even within a single-digit percent left on Soo Won.

• In nearly every attempt, I see 1/3 or more of the squad downed to every slam attack.
• In every other attempt, more than half the break bars are left unbroken.
• In 1/3 to 1/2 of the attempts, the RNG gods conspire against us as well, getting overly frequent bites, swaps, and overlapping tail+CC phases.
• In a handful of attempts, the groups couldn't even figure out champs needed to be downed at the same time.

Alas, these are group problems, and not for lack of one or more people explaining the fight beforehand.  While I'm far from perfect, I don't personally have any trouble with the mechanics. There's little I can do to affect others, though, so I feel pretty helpless.

 

Sadly, given the time expenditure and win rate I've seen, the meta would literally need to drop precursors to even be worth my time.  I've given up for now, hoping the RNG is fixed/improved, the time investment is reduced, people learn to do better, or some combination thereof.  It's too bad, as I do actually kinda like the fight.

Yeah this is my experience too i have maybe 2-3 wins out of 20+ tries.

No matter how good Com explains 💩 some people simply don't listen. For example last time i tried, we did crystal gathering bit 4 times. No matter how much chat was screaming to stop. At that point i mostly knew that the run was a fail, stayed for a bit to see if miracle happened and people would somehow pull it together.

Then i left and got flamed by some rando for "depressing" people and making them leave, when i stated that run is a fail with 4mins at 30%+ hp  and all 3 champs alive.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Necrosian.1359

[Silent.6137]

9 minutes ago, ATMAvatar.5749 said:

I've had an inverted experience.  Despite joining LFG 30-60 minutes before the meta starts, I think I've had 1-2 wins out of roughly 15-20 attempts, and of those failures, only a few were even within a single-digit percent left on Soo Won.

Most players will follow what the tags do. I always make it a point to ask comm about lane & splits assignments, to see if comm has any clue what to do, or is just tagging to get numbers. Decent comms will create subgroups, assign lanes/splits, place markers, ask players to stack on protocols and contributors, etc. Those are the absolute basics. Doesn't need to do much more than that except know when to run across arena. If comms has no idea, then it's time to look for another group.

 

1 hour ago, Necrosian.1359 said:

No matter how good Com explains 💩 some people simply don't listen.

Unfortunately, that's always the case. Too many are there clueless, yet they won't listen to call-outs or read mapchats. However, if enough listen, then the chances will be very good.

[Cronospere.8143]

Soo, still didnt finish this event. Im normally positive, but right now it's starting to annoy me. last 4 tries all below 10 or 5% health. With good organised groups. RNG of soo-won circling is ridiculous right now. It does a single attack, circles, single attack, circle. running around on the platform 6 times in a min, really reduces the DPS of any group. And the tale phase and CC phase started at the same time, it really disorientated people.
Im a little dissapointed.. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Cronospere.8143

[yohoia.1850]

I absolutely hate this meta. I need to do it successfully once to get the turtle (tried twice today, but failed) but after that I will never, ever do it again. So many things going on at once, impossible to see the telegraphs and boom your dead. Two hours wasted, nothing gained. I usually love the metas in GW2 but this one is awful.